Donal Ring

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Interviewer Tim McCarthy begins by giving a brief biographical rundown of Donal Rings career saying that Donal started playing the accordion at the age of thirteen and he was influenced by his father who was a melodeon player and he was playing professionally from the age of fifteen thus winning the acclaim of his peers. He speaks of how Donal garnered a large fanbase locally and internationally. Tim states that much of Donals story has been documented by local media and he states that Brian Lawlor of the Irish Traditional Music Archive, which is housed in Merrion Square Dublin, did two extensive interviews with Donal in 2009 so he states that today they will seek to focus on more local topics and general topics that Brian and other interviewees may not have covered. Tim makes a statement to the effect that Brian’s interviews are available online and the Cork Folklore Project will request his permission to refer to them in relation to whatever they discuss today so it will all be unified.

Donal says his musical influence started with his father who he says would play morning noon and night and liked playing. That was for the first couple of years and then Donal became friendly with the late Donal Coleman and they got together playing. Donal Coleman was from Grenagh Parish and they joined a little band in Mallow called the Celtic Ceili Band and they were there for two years with a man called Joe Boyle who was from Clonmel Co Tipperary and married in Mallow. After two years they (the two Donals) left and formed the Blarney Ceili Band and joined up with the Murphy’s of Blackstone Bridge who Donal says were very good fiddlers and bass players etc. Donal Ring was there for three years and then decided to go out on his own. He became friendly with a man called Noel Crowley from Dillon’s Cross in Cork City whom Donal says was a great accordion player and who has passed away in the last year. Himself and Donal started a band and the way it started was they tossed a penny, Donal says at the time he was saying the Rosary in Commons Road and each was saying to other to put their name on the band so in the end they tossed a penny and Donal’s name came up so that was how the band started (the Donal Ring Ceili Band). Noel was with him in the band for five or six years and then they organised a tour of London and Noel didn’t want to go as he didn’t like travelling. He says Frank Fitzpatrick went instead and Donal says they got on reasonably well adding you can’t expect miracles starting out. They went to London and had thirteen dates supposed to be booked and when they arrived it was seven. He says they were green and walked into it, he says you learn fast. They enjoyed it and it was a challenge he adds. He adds they went again the following year and it was a great success. It was a great tour he says.

He says after this they were trying to get on television, (on RTE) There were two programmes called Beirt Eile and Club Céilí and they were writing in to RTE to get on the programmes and RTE got back to say they were on the casting file and they would get in contact when they (the band) were required. He says it went on like this and Donal says he was very friendly with Tony Hegarty who was managing the band at the time. Tony asked Donal if he knew Jack Lynch to which Donal said he did. Tony advised Donal to go to Jack Lynch’s office on the Grand Parade on a Saturday morning so Donal went down to him. When he called there Jack Lynch asked him if they had ever done broadcasting to which Donal said they had done live broadcasting from Union Quay for RTE. Donal showed Jack Lynch the letters he had got from RTE and Jack said to leave it with him and he would have a word with Mr McCourt (Note: Kevin McCourt, Director General of RTE from 1962 to 1968). Tim asks Donal if he was a judge in Midleton to which Donal says he doesn’t know but that he was the “bossman” in RTE. Three weeks later RTE got in touch to say they were on. He says that was a lucky break and it was thanks to RTE that they got it. From there on the whole thing blossomed he says. Donal adds that Jack Lynch was quite cautious too as he wanted to know whether they had done Live broadcasts and it was the makings of them and they got a lot of work off it. Tim asks Donal if Tony Hegarty is the well known Cork comedian. Donal says he was and he was a great friend. When Donal had no money Tony often gave him 50 pounds and Donal will never forget that. He says he was a great friend and a good manager but he pulled out because they got too busy and there was no need of a manager. He says it was not like today, today he says you have to ring somebody to look for work and he says back then it was the opposite. They (venues) would ring you and book dates with you and confirm them in writing. He says they did the rest themselves. He says Tony Hegarty was their only ever manager and after that he did it himself. He says there isin’t that much to it. He says doing it himself you get to know people better. He says sometimes you could go to a place and you could be told that you weren’t booked at all. He say it happened a few times, he says going back fifty seven years ago they went to Kiskeam (in North Cork) one night to be told they weren’t booked at all and Donal says they were. Another night one New Years Eve they  drove up to Kildare as they were booked into a venue only to be told that there must be some mistake and he told them they had been there twelve months previously and the venue had rebooked them but they repeated that there was a mistake. He said all they could do was to get something to eat for the band and drive them home and he jokes, take some abuse because they haven’t some sort of contract with them. He says you wouldn’t get a lot of abuse. He says the contract wasn’t in writing but he would always honour it whether it was or not. He says at that time contracts were mostly in writing but it was starting to go out. He says regarding dances everything would be conformed about the dance only the fee. (Note: from 7.51 to 7.53 Donal says a saying which sounds like “there was no quarrel with the price you bring them” though it is not 100% clear on the recording)

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Tim asks Donal if all of the band travelled together to which he says they did. He says they always had a Volkswagen minibus and he says he had eleven of them in total down the years all of which he wore out. He says the Volkswagen are a great machine. Donal then mentions the name of the local motor supplier of the time, (Note: at 8.20 Donal mentions the name of his local car supplier of the time who would supply him with the minibuses, it may be Thomas Transport but it is unclear on the recording). Donal says the manager of the motor supplier whom he would buy the minibuses from was Michael McCarthy who was always very good to him and whenever an exceptional Volkswagen came in Michael would have Donal in line for it. When asked how the band members spent the time in the van on the road he says they would play chess. Jer (or Jerry) Casey and Gary Cronin would be playing chess, Jer was a genius he says.  Gary had a miniature board and he would be half an hour making a move Donal says. Jerry would be in the front beside Donal and he straight away make his move and then hand the board back over the seat to Gary who would then take another half an hour to make the next move. He says you would have arguments over very small things when people would get tired and cranky, he says they would tend to pick on the weak points to get the next fellow going. He says they were all great lads even though he had at least fifty band members travelling in the van down the years. Tim asks Donal if he has done a “family tree” meaning a history of the band members. Donal replies to say that his niece in San Francisco is doing a family history of the Ring family which he says is fairly big. Tim says he has seen a fair few bands do a history on their members showing who was connected with whom. Donal says their connection in that respect would be the McCarthy’s and starting with the Cork songwriter Jimmy McCarthy. Donal says he might not have his facts exactly right but he says his own grandmother was a McCarthy and he thinks she was a grandaunt of Jimmy McCarthy. He also mentions a Margaret McCarthy who plays the fiddle in blarney and she played for President Barack Obama in the White House on St Patricks Day. He says she played the fiddle and danced the hornpipe at the same time. He says she is fantastic. Donal says he saw his grandmother dancing the hornpipe and playing the melodeon so it is in the blood. He says the grandchildren from his fathers side the music came from. He says his mother’s side of the family isn’t musical at all.

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Tim asks Donal if they wore uniforms in the band to which he says they did. He says it was important to be dressed neatly. He says they got Irish plaid suits one time which were made by the late Tom Aherne who had a tailors shop on the North Main St in Cork. He says this was in the early 1960’s. He says they also had lovely coats from John Culhane (note: He probably means John Mannix of Mannix & Culhane on Washington St) and they got coats and jackets from a man called Nick Buttery. They had jackets of different colours. When asked did someone design them Donal says they were just made to measure and jokes that they weren’t that important.

Donal says band members helped with the driving and loading of gear. He says when he started first he had two brothers in the band. Jerh Ring was the bass player, Donal says he was killed outside Blarney. He was a good driver he adds. Another brother Michael was also in the band but he didn’t drive. He had another man in the band the late Liam Kelleher who was a good driver. He says it is grand to sit in and not worry about the driver but there are many that you would worry about them driving and you’d get no peace that way. Donal says it was mostly himself driving and he says he started driving trucks which he says he drove for years. He says you’d have to be handy at it or you’d kill half of Cork. He talks for a bit about the truck driving and he says he was glad to get away from it. He says he finished up driving trucks for John O Hoolihan for whom he was driving multi wheeled Atkinson trucks which had no power steering and he would be hauling twenty five tons into Cork and he describes trying to take a turning by the Capitol Cinema on Washington St. He says it was tough work but he enjoyed it. Tim says he used to do this himself and asks what sites he was working from. Donal says the big job he was involved in was the building of the oil refinery in Whitegate. He was working for a firm called Ellis and was hauling material to the site in Whitegate and he was doing this for two years. After that he went to work on the building of Cork Airport for a couple of years. He says this was the biggest project of the time. He says he was hauling blocks for building sites. He worked for a man called Willy Desmond drawing sugar beet to Mallow and picking up the grain in the fields. He says there would be one man on the ground handing in a twenty stone bag. He jokes that you wouldn’t be breaking wind on Patrick St that night. Tim says there wouldn’t have been health and safety to which Donal agrees, he says that has gone too far these days and you’d see fellows working on the roads and there’d be cones on the road for half a mile and then nothing happening at the end. 

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Tim asks if any of Donal’s band members achieved success in other areas. Donal says Ger Casey is a professor of archaeology in Dublin now and he was in Donal’s band for eleven years. The first ever violin player he had was Declan Townsend and he is a bachelor of music now. He says several great players never progressed to anything bigger like Tony O Sullivan and Frank Fitzpatrick who he says are still great players. He mentions his own brother Michael who became a panel beater, he says he plays accordion and he is still in the band. He left and he came back a few times he says. Tim asks how the set up of having two accordion players work. Donal says they spent years at it and when there are two playing they have to be bang on and they won’t get away with any discrepancies. They have to keep rehearsing and practising melodies and harmonies. He says when you are playing out in the country at ceilis you are playing jigs and reels and a second box is a great help. Things will go wrong one night and then other nights will go perfectly. Tim mentions that in the case of the Everly Brothers that it was said there was an affinity that produced a natural harmony and would Donal agree with that? Donal says there is no doubt about this. He adds that when Noel Crowley started out the band he was very meticulous as to getting the arrangements right, all the bass parts and piano parts had to be written out. That continued on with Gerry Casey who taught Donals daughter Mary and now she and Donal’s son write the arrangements for the band. Donal says they are not going to record anymore as the age of the cd is gone which he says is hard to believe. He says he has cds recorded and can’t sell them as everyone is downloading now from the internet. Tim asks Donal what he thinks of this, in reply he says his son was in Scotland this year and he played in a place called Dufftown. He was there playing on a Friday night and by example Donal says he was in Pa Johnsons pub on Devonshire St Cork on the following Monday night. He adds that there is an accordion night there on the last Wednesday of every month. On this occasion when Donal was there the proprietor Barry Johnson had the internet on (on a computer or device) and Donal says there was Donals son Donie and Terry McCarthy playing in Dufftown, he adds someone had uploaded two hours of it. Donal says you can’t sell cds under those circumstances. There follows a discussion with Tim and Donal as to whether this puts the focus back on live performances. Donal says that with live performances musicians have to be at the top of their game because anyone can film them with a mobile phone. Donal says that today the band consists of his brother Michael, Donal’s daughter Mary and he has a singer from Ballyroe called Con Hegarty and himself. He says they play in Blarney every Sunday night from 9 to 11. He says he himself will be 80 at the end of the week so playing two nights a week would be too much. He says his grandchildren are all playing, his grandson Aidan plays and another grandson Der plays with Robert Mizzell who is a big Country N Western act and plays the North a lot, Robert Mizzell is American he adds and his grandson is drumming with him. He compares musical ability to hurling and says it is in the blood. He says his grandchildren often play with him.

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Donal says the five row accordion is quite complex to play and he calls it ultimate accordion. He says he didn’t play it as it wasn’t there in his time. He was he was the “push and draw man” and he says he went as far as he could on that. He bought a Shand Morino accordion which is what Jimmy Shand, the famous Scottish accordionist played which is a very advanced push and pull keyboard. He adds that the five row is the most advanced and he says it is a superb keyboard. He says there is the two and three row which are push and pull. He goes on to speak more about the five row. He talks about the Shand Marino and talks about Jimmy Shand who he says was a marvellous man and the king in his book of playing terms. He says he was 100 years ahead of his time. He speaks about the Gallowglass Ceili Band and their influence. He says there were some great bands from up the country played the City Hall in Cork. He lists these acts such as Jackie Hearst from Newry, Sean Donoghue and his five sisters from Galway and Astor Row (?) from Donegal. He said they had some great nights there especially with Na Piarsaigh hurling club who he says held great Ceilis. He says Ceilis in the City would draw crowds of a couple of thousand. He says the golden era was from when Jimmy Shand came and as Donal says got the whole thing going. Donal thinks he came first to Cork around 1956 and came again in the early 60’s. Then the Gallowglass Ceili Band came and he says it took off. He says there was nearly thirty years where it was at its peak. He goes on to say that Tony Hegarty was running a ceili in the City Hall and Donal’s band were booked for it and also the Gallowglass were booked and also Jim Cameron from Scotland. Donal was up in the Hall with Tony on Saturday and Tony said he would have to have two thousand for the audience and it ended up having two and a half thousand. Donal recalls on the night that there was a queue on the footpath all the way up Angelsea Street and he adds there was no drink served, just a mineral bar. He says there was never a bar at the ceilis. He says in time the regular bars started building lounge extensions and running “bits of dances” then the normal dance halls, not all of them he adds, had to add a bar to compete. Donal adds any big dance they run now has a bar, they are doing one in Glenville on the week of the interview he says. He says those people drinking would just be having a couple of drinks and maybe a short.

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Tim asks Donal if there were two scenes going on then, the Showband scene in tandem with the music scene Donal was involved with. Donal says the Showband scene was very big. He mentions Brendan Bowyer. He speaks about the “wagons” the Showbands had, ie their tour buses. He says the wagons would be specially designed and very large. He goes on to say that nearly every parish ran a festival and Donal and the band would have one Irish night during the week. Donal and the band would get the date and they would be going non stop. The Irish night was always a great success because you would get an older crowd coming in for it. He says they often subsidised the Showbands with the crowd they would bring. He says they did the Rose Of Tralee for twenty one years, Upton Steam Rally for fourteen years, Cobh Festival for eighteen years and all these festivals would keep them busy. He says they had a slot on St Francis Hall as well for fourteen years every Tuesday night. Tim says he recalls St Francis Hall as being a popular spot and he asks what else went on there to which Donal says they used to have karate classes and card drives. He says it was owned by St Francis Church (on Liberty St, Cork). He says he thinks now it is a nightclub, they had some great nights there he adds. Tim asks Donal if they came across a lot of Cork Showbands and Donal mentions the Dixies. Tim asks about the connection between Donal’s band and the Dixies and Donal says the connection was with Terry McCarthy sings with Donals son Donie and they play a wide variety of material. (Note: Terry McCarthy has been part of the Dixies lineup). Donal says he knows Joe Mac of the Dixies well. He says they’re the same age. Donal says he never played with Joe Mac. He says Terry McCarthy played with Donal and his band in Scotland twice and he says his main ambition is to make the night a success. Tim asks about the Cork band the Arrivals and Donal says he knew them all, he mentions Declan Ryan. Donal says there were some bands in Cork from that time who didn’t receive due recognition, he says one was a group called the Modernaires who used to play in the Palm Court Ballroom on Oliver Plunkett St, he says it used to be the ESB office. Alderman John W Reidy bought it and converted it into the Palm Court Ballroom and it was a lovely place but it has since been sold and it is now known as the Oliver Plunkett. Tim mentions that it used to be the Black Bush and Scotts at various points. Donal goes on to mention the Regal from Bantry who he says were a great band. Tommy Power from Douglas also had a band. He also mentions Chris Mahon, he mentions them as being both passed away.  He remembers when he was young seeing a band led by a man called Pat Navin or Navan. He doesn’t know where he was from. He says there would be fourteen band members of Pat Navin’s loaded onto a mini bus. He says it must have been a great wagon to take that load. Tim asks Donal if they ever had members from pipe bands or brass bands from the City. Donal mentions one man from the Blarney Brass & Reed Band. He says he was a good saxophone player but didn’t stay with them. He was the only one he thinks. He mentions another man called Jerry Casey who didn’t play with them but all of his sons did he says, he played with a brass and reed band in town. Tim asks if the saxophone was common with ceili bands at this time to which Donal says the Gallowglass Ceili Band was the first to use it. He says they picked it up from listening to Jim Cameron who had a cornet which he says was like a trumpet. The Gallowglass went to the sax, he says if you have a good man playing it can be lovely. Donal had the late Paddy Carey on the sax for thirty one years. He could play every note of it he says which is unusual for a sax player, he could play the C melody which would be part of old saxophones. The Sax player for the Gallowglass Mick Dempsey was a great player and a nice man he says. Donal says they would have recorded with the sax, he says they did about eight LP’s with the sax. Mick Dempsey tutored Paddy Carey on the sax, he says the weakest sax reed you can get is a number three and Mick used to shave it down to one and a half and he would be doing things like burning the top between two pennies. Donal speaks about the trumpet and how Jim Cameron would always play to the side and not directly out to the audience to dampen the sound.

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Tim asks what were the best years for the music and for the best for the money. Donal says the best years money and work wise were the mid 70’s to late 80’s. Donal says there was a  belief that with ceili bands they didn’t need to be paid at all whereas with Showbands they would get a “thousand smackers” and they might have to be fighting for 350 pounds which was their fee in their heydays. He says they came from nothing and had nothing to start with and when they got the work you took it. He says the music didn’t suffer because of the money, they would play their best at all times. He speaks about the problems of having to make sure everyone in the band were paid. He says he had a seven piece band and then it would go down to six and then down to four because of the issues involved with paying everyone. He says nowadays you are down to about fifty or sixty people per gig because he says just the old people are dancing now. On asked did the recession affect things he says it did and he also speaks about drink driving regulations effecting gigs. On asked how did he get the contacts for gigs Donal says the promoters got to know them rather than vice versa and he adds that TV made them. He mentions a singer they had called Pat Daly. He says they never had any breakdowns going to the gigs except for one occasion where they ran out of petrol going from Dublin and they ran out of petrol by Glanmire. He mentions again the reliability of the Volkswagen. He says you would have to fight your corner with some promoters to get your money. He gives an example of a time they played one time they were playing for the GAA in Kilcormac County Offaly and they were booked to play from 10 to 1. He says at quarter to 12 there was no one there and they were practising and then two people came in, by the next half hour it was full, they had all been in the bars he said. Next thing they were told they had to play till half past 1. He says afterwards five members of the committee came up to him to pay him and they said to Donal that they must give him a cut. They said to him that they hadn’t started playing till quarter to 12 to which Donal said they had no one to play to and they had them booked from ten to one. One of the men then said to Donal, “do you know who I am?” “I’m JJ Spain and I’m the referee in the All-Ireland Semi Final tomorrow”. Donal told him he didn’t give a damn who he was and to this JJ Spain “fired” the money at him. Donal says you get an odd one like that here and there but the majority were great. He mentions Sonny Maybury of Dunmanway and Pat McCarthy of Cappamore in Co Limerick as grand people to play for. He says that with Pat McCarthy he booked him for ten nights and they never discussed money because they had an understanding and he says it would be the same with Sonny Maybury.  

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Tim asks Donal if they did a lot of work for charity to which Donal says they did a pile of it. He says one thing the band would do every Christmas Morning would they would play the hospitals. They would play St Finbars and the Mercy Hospital which were the two they play the more often. They would also play St Patricks Hospital (Marymount). They did for about twenty five years. He says he did about twelve albums, when asked were any of them recorded in Cork he says one was done in Ballyvourney, another in Fermoy and the last one they did was in was in Youghal. The rest were done in Dublin and he adds it was expensive, he says it cost 100 pounds an hour and it was no place to be rehearsing as you’d want that done. He says they held a record for the fastest LP recorded and mixed at nineteen hours. He says you’d be talking about a couple of thousand pounds. He talks about one place that rigged the breakdown of the cost of recording. He says the studio suffered a power cut and that Donal walked outside and up the street, he says every house along the street had power so this proved that the studio had rigged the power cut to drag out the recording time and get paid more. They hid it rigged in the studio to cut the power off. Donal says there were two more numbers to record and they had to go back again. He speaks more about the recording process and getting the takes right, the pressures of getting it right etc. He advises always do an extra track. The entire band would play together in the studio. He mentions Bill Somerville- Large of Windmill Lane Studios in Dublin as a great engineer; he adds that he was a jazz pianist. He also worked for RTE he says. He speaks of his work with them on recording and how he helped them out with a piano piece. He says they recorded in Tadhg Kelleher’s studio in Ballyvourney which he says was top class. He speaks about recording in Brian O Reilly’s (of the band Loudest Whisper) studio in Fermoy. He says one thing he found there was you would want to be playing very tight and there would be no looseness at all. He mentions the Youghal recording as having been done in Clay Castle Studio. The differences in styles and age gaps are discussed. Bill Somerville-Large was the main producer in Dublin he says. He mentions Trend Studio and the engineers Paul Waldron and John Dallat. He mentions Fred Meyer as a good engineer; if you were in the studio mixing you’d come out nearly stone deaf as he’s have big speakers on. A discussion on mixing in the studio follows.

The instruments of the band are discussed. Donal says he bought his accordion from Jimmy Shand. His brother Michael also bought his instrument from him. He says Jimmy Shand was over in Cork and Donal showed him his own accordion to which Jimmy said the keyboard was buckled, Donal adds that at this time he was driving the lorry and had “fingers like crowbars”. He tells a story about another accordion he was having tuned and how Jimmy Shand advised him to never sell it. He tells how Jimmy sold him a fiddle on the same occasion. Tim asks Donal if Jimmy Shand would have seen him as a protégé to which Donal says he thought a lot of the band and he would give credit where it was due. He tells how Jimmy wrote the Bridie Ring Polka for Donals wife to play and he wrote one for Donal and ones for the band, he was a gifted man he says. Further discussion of Jimmy Shand’s life and career follow.

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Tim asks Donal if he ever featured on a radio show called the Galtee Programme to which Donal says he doesn’t but he would listen to it a lot. It used to go out on a Monday at quarter past one. (Note: possibly a reference to Galtee Radio, an independent radio station that ceased transmitting in 2001) Crowleys music shop in Cork is discussed. Donal says he often dealt with Michael and his father Mick Crowley. Donal mentions a man known as Sham or Shan who worked in Crowleys shop when it was on Merchants Quay. He mentions another man whose surname was Welsh who worked for Crowleys. He says it is sad to see Crowley’s gone today. Tim says that Sheena Crowley, the daughter of Michael Crowley is running Crowley’s music shop from above the Palm Court (now the Oliver Plunkett). Tim asks Donal if he ever pass on his skills or teach anyone outside the family to which he says he has a bad patience that way, he says he might give them a hint but he never took up teaching. A discussion on the conditions in the venues follows, Donal says there was no such thing as dressing rooms, there was no heating or fan onstage. He says it improved in time and they got lighting and dressing rooms etc. He says how the cold would effect the instruments such as frost. He says you would have to be hardy. He says sometimes they had problems with band members drinking and disappearing off. He recalls one night when they were playing in Upton and three of the band were drinking. There were spot prizes such as bottles of whiskey. Donal says what he didn’t know was that the three band members had stolen the bottle of whiskey and they didn’t want him to see it so he says they went outside and he describes where the back wheel of the Volkswagen had a panel hiding half the wheel and they put the bottle into this and on top of the tyre where it couldn’t be seen. He says when he was unloading the wagon the bottle fell down with a bang and broke. He jokes that the lads were nearly in tears. He says drink is an awful scourge in a band. Donal says he doesn’t drink other than the off half pint. He says fellas would be falling off the stage or falling off a chair. He describes one time how Paddy Carey who didn’t drink was “fool acting” on stage when they were playing in Cahir Co Tipperary. Next thing before he knew where he was he had fallen into the pit. He describes another occasion when they were playing in Portarlington Co Laois and there big lampshades made from aluminium and hanging over the stage. Next thing he heard a crack and the rope holding up the lampshades broke and it fell down missing drummer Pat Riordan’s head by six inches, he says it would have killed him stone dead if it had hit him. Tim suggests that the Stardust fire in Dublin 1981 changed all that to which Donal agrees. He says fire chiefs came into St Francis Hall in Cork at this time when Donal’s band were playing there and pointed out that all the timber in the venue would have to be removed or else treated with fire proof paint. The fire proof paint option was chosen and Donal says they put no dryers in the paint and it took several months to dry by which time their audience from that venue was scattered and they never got them back.

Tim asks about punters to the gigs going out all dressed up to which Donal says all the women would be for an hour before the men would come and they’d be on one side of the hall and then the men would arrive in from the bar. He says the style would be fierce. He talks about the dancing. He talks about how bars bringing in lounges affected dancehalls. He speaks about how dancehalls closed around the country and what a shame it is as he says it was a great outlet and people were happy dancing. He says the dancing was great exercise, they would start out the night with waltzes then two steps. He says in his time the foxtrot was considered a sin as it was too modern. He goes into detail about different dances such as the Siege Of Ennis, two hand reel, the Kipe, the stack o barley, the sweets of may, the Slosh which he says is very popular as its non streneous. He speaks about a man from the Northside of Cork City who was called “The MP” Foley. Donal says he did a lot for dancing and the dancers we have today we can give credit to the MP for. Donal says he was a very strict dance teacher. He says he wouldn’t allow close dancing and you wouldn’t be allowed in the door if you didn’t have a tie. Donal says he used to operate in Inniscarra, in Mourneabbey and then would run dances in Macroom, Glanworth. He was all over the place and taught the whole County Donal says. He made money from it but he earned it Donal adds.

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Tim asks Donal about Ladies Choices and if it was popular Donal says it was popular, and they don’t have that anymore. He says there would be “murder” if a girl refused a dance with a fellow. He says their MC would come up to him and complain that such a lady had refused such a fellow a dance. Donal says he took no notice but that it considered an offense. He says he often saw a fellow getting two or three refusals. He says he never saw any trouble over a refusal. Though he says there would be bitterness. He mentions his memory of the smell of paraffin oil and candle grease which was the treatment of the floor for dancing. When you went into the dancehall run by the MP in Inniscarra there would be a smell of paraffin oil and candle grease and the floor would be like glass. He says then crystals but they can’t be used today because of health and safety. Tim asks him about the competition from set dancing and the contrast with ceilis where the emphasis was more on fun and craic. Donal replies by saying that he thinks set dancing killed the whole thing, (the dancehalls). He says when the set dancing started to come in you had the ceili crowd sitting down watching polka set after polka and unable to contribute and then leaving. He says the set dancing crowd would have towels wiping the sweat off themselves. He says its very competitive and not every couple would dance with the next couple, they would have their own sets. Tim mentions that Donals son Donal Jnr that said before the interview that he had played for Irish dancers, Donal says that is competitive Irish dancing. He says the children are under too much pressure and the parents would be pushing them into it. He speaks about one night when there was a waltzing competition in Timoleague, there was a couple from Blackpool who were good dancers but didn’t win. He says they” lost it completely” and Donal said to the man whose name was Joe that tomorrow night there’ll be another competition and that he would win it but there was no getting  through to him, he lost all sense of direction.  He say competitions are fine if people are prepared to take their beating if it comes.

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Tim asks if there were any sayings or colloquialisms or phrases that were used to describe events in the venues that you wouldn’t hear anywhere else. To this Donal mentions the late Fr Roberts a Franciscan who used to be in St Francis Hall where there used to be a social for the Total Abstinence Association (the Pioneers). He would come in and he would always say to the Carrignavar boys “Where ever you go don’t go far, and keep away from Carrignavar”. He says he heard him saying that numerous times. He was a character Donal says. Donal tells a story about one night when they were starting off and they were playing in Fermoy. It was a two band session and they were on first. Donal and Paddy Carey went to the toilet and he says and while they were in there the MC announced over the speaker “for the last hour and a half you were listening to the Donal Ring Ceili Band” and a fellow in the toilet said “we were then”, Donal jokes that he wasn’t too impressed. He was the smoking in the halls was fierce, he adds that he was a smoker himself for forty three years. He says he had an operation, a quadruple bypass. He says he wasn’t long stopping after that, he says it is all psychological and he had been smoking forty a day. He goes on to talk about the efforts to give up smoking. He says Paddy used to smoke a pipe and there was a lot of smoke from it. He talks about a place in Middlesbrough, England where they played and the smoke was so thick your eyes would be sore. He says it was like thick fog. He speaks about another place in Crosshaven called Johnny’s Return where the smoke was unbelievable. They were playing there when the smoking ban was coming in and Donal said to himself it wouldn’t stop this crowd smoking and he came back three weeks later and there was a case of someone in Donegal who had been fined a thousand Euro for smoking and he says he couldn’t believe, there were no smokers in the venue. He says at the end of the day it was no harm to get rid of the smoking. He speaks about the smell of cigarette smoke on the instruments.

1.09.46 - 1.17.46

Tim asks were there any accidents as a result of dancing. Donal says he saw a lot of bad falls but they always got up, except in one case where a man didn’t get up. He says he died dancing the Siege Of Ennis. He learned after that the man had heart problems and was warned to take it easy but he ignored the advice and he was dead before he hit the floor. He can’t think of anyone breaking a leg or arm. When asked would you see fights break out he says you would the time of the drink but not anymore. When people drinking you might se a skirmish. He recalls one time when they were playing and Ger Daly was the bossman. He says in the mineral bar a bit of an argument started and Ger Daly said “lads, lads, lads, and straight away that stopped it. When asked did they have bouncers in the halls he says they did, you wouldn’t want to get on the wrong side of them he adds. He mentions the Galtymore dancehall in Cricklewood North London as a great place to play. He says the bouncers would have anyone misbehaving by the scruff of the neck. He says you would conduct yourself there. He says the Irish people who would go to the Galtymore as great. He says it was a great place for the grub. He talks about when they had finished playing there and were about to head for the ferry they got beef sandwiches given to them by the venue. He says they were very honourable and mentions the Byrne family who ran it. He speaks about another venue in Cricklewood they played in called the Spotted Terrier which is not far from the Galtymore. They played for a family called the Caseys who also had the Elephant And Castle. Donal says that they played all over London till they went and played Scotland in 1988. He says once they started playing Scotland they never really went back to England. He says it’s a different country and different scene. He says with them you’d have to play right and play so many bars for each dance and he jokes they’d be standing on the floor looking at you if you did it wrong. Tim asks Donal if they ever came across a tough element in London such as gangsters. Donal says they never encountered that. He says the only trouble they encountered was that most times they played London a bomb might go off. He says they were playing in Dublin the night Nelsons Pillar was blown up. In answer to Tim’ question of did they play the North Of Ireland he says he never played there. There follows a discussion about the Miami Showband Massacre of 1975. Tim says he saw them play the Seaview in Salthill Galway the night before it happened. Donal says they weren’t asked to play in the North during the troubles, after the Troubles when they played Scotland they got a slot in a place north of Belfast (he remembers later it was Ballymena).  Donal says he was worried and said it to his friend in Scotland Brooke Lindsey in Scotland who said it to two friends in Belfast who were two brothers, Rea who play accordian. They in turn said that Donal needn’t be worried coming to the North. He says there was no problem but there was a split in the camp, (with the band) which he says is very common. He says they didn’t have a bad night or a great night. He says it was unsettling and you’d prefer to be somewhere else.

Tim asks Donal if he ever composed any tunes himself. Donal says just one which is named Donal Rings Jig. He talks about the process of how he composed and recorded it. He says it has been recorded in Scotland since as a man rang and asked could he record it to which Donal agreed. When asked did he get any royalties from it he says not at all and he says people think that if they hear you on the radio you are making money. He says he is registered with IMRO or The Irish Music Rights Organisation.[Restricted Access section here 1.15.43 to 1.16.46 ]

1.17.47 - 1.25.55

He speaks about playing in the Opera House with a tenor called John MacNally for a fortnight one time. Tim says that’s a name he hasn’t heard in a while and that he was very prolific at one stage, Donal says he was a lovely singer and thinks he went to Australia after.

Tim asks Donal if he ever played the old Opera House, Donal says he didn’t but he did see it burning down. He goes on to speak about this, he says he was over the other side of the river watching it. He watched the tail end of the fire early in the morning as the Opera House smouldered. There were a lot of people looking on. He was young at the time and it was a shame to see it burning. He says his parents never went into the old Opera House, they were tough times he says. He says maybe a small bit of snobbery attached to the Opera House and a certain clique if you wanted to get work there you couldn’t get work if you attached to them. He doesn’t know if that still applies to the modern Opera House but he has heard they are tough.

Tim asks does he play music by local composers. Donal mentions Jerry Casey as one, also Noel Crowley who wrote a few melodies for them. There were a few tunes written for their band here and there by various people. Tim asks were there a lot of people writing at the time, Donal says a man did several of what on the recording sounds like “poetry” on the band (Note: cannot quite make out this word) written by a man from Whitegate whose name he can’t recall. He says he has some at home and must root them out.

He says they did a lot of rehearsing before they did recordings, as he said before the recording was expensive so they couldn’t rehearse during it. He says they would rehearse without amplification out in the hall. He says in relation to the amps and equipment that they started out with rubbish. He says they would be buying stuff that they thought was great and then it would turn out to be not that good. It would be a long time before you buy the right stuff. He says he bought a Thule speakers and amplifier in America in 1974 that he still uses. The amp is only 100 watt and he says today everyone is using 2000 watt amps. He says he can put it up against any of them. He never had to open them bar one speaker when the wire fell off of it. He speaks about using the PB501 microphone for the accordians and how he came about using it.  He says you can’t get them anymore. He has two of them and several members of the band of them. He says a “bomb came down” on a factory that manufactures components for it and you can’t get it anymore. Tim mentions Peavey to which Donal says they wouldn’t be as good as Thule. He always used mikes he says. It didn’t restrict them onstage he says. He says Paddy O Connor of RTE gave him advice on microphones and sound and said don’t forget to play nice and easy. He never used sound engineers in the band. He did the sound himself he says. He says in certain halls you would have feedback problems. He remembers one hall in Portarlington Co Laois and a man said if you can get sound in here I life my hat. Donal says when he put the speakers up on stage the sound was desperate. Eventually he put them on the floor off stage and the sound was perfect. The man who was talking about the sound couldn’t get over it. He says how when he went into a hall for the first time he would whistle and if you heard it echoing back you knew you were in trouble.

1.25.56 - 1.35.23

Tim asks Donal if he ever played up the Glen, the Glen Hall in Blackpool. Donal says that’s where they started, they didn’t play the new one. He says the place was “black” with people, packed out completely. He say Jimmy O Rourke was running it and Donal says he was the man with the scoreboard afterwards at GAA matches at Pairc Ui Caoimh.

Tim mentions that Donal had a song “the Bold Christy Ring” and asks did he know him. Donal says he did and that he was a great man. He says he didn’t talk a lot but he was very sincere. He says he met him after a County Final on a very wet day when the Glen were playing Youghal, Donal and Christy walked out together and they were talking about hurling. Christy said to him “look, if you’re a good player you’re a marked man, and you’ll know after a second ball whether they’re out to get you or not, and if you can’t take care of yourself you’ll be in big trouble”. He doesn’t know who wrote it. (Note: online sources indicate it is set to the tune of the Bold Thady Quill and the author of the lyrics remains unknbown) He never spoke about the song to Donal, it was very popular especially in Tipperary he says. He speaks about Paddy Carey singing it at shows and putting in mentions the Barrs, Jack Lynch and Glen Rovers, The Redmonds, Sean Og O Halpin and Julie Coughlan. He speaks of banter between Paddy and people from other counties at shows when he would sing it.

Donal says he never met Sean O Riada, he says he did a lot for music. He says he was playing in Cashel County Tipperary recently and a lady came up speaking to him. She said she went to Coolea Irish College and she knew Sean O Riada and her father was a Clareman. She said she had read it the previous week that Sean O Riada was born in Cork and she couldn’t conceive that. Donal says he was a great man and his influence was enormous. He heard that he also played in Ceili bands.

Donal speaks about the Cork singer Sean O Se. He sang with Donal often and they backed him. He is a fine artist he says.

Donal says he knew Rory Gallagher, he says Rory used to go into Crowley’s. He says Rory played the Shand Marino accordion for a while with a band in West Cork and Donal says he has a photo somewhere of it. He thinks the name of the band was the Hawthorn or something like that. Tim mentions that Rory played with a band called the Fontana. Donal mentions a now deceased man called Joe Hayes who said to Donal did he remember when Donal said to Rory Gallagher that he should cut his hair. Donal said that he didn’t remember this. Joe said that it was as Rory was going into Crowley’s Music Shop and Donal who was walking outside on the footpath said to him “hello Rory, you should cut the hair, its getting very long”. Donal says he was a great man.

Donal mentions a Cork tenor called Paul O Leary whom he says was the best tenor in the city.

Tim returns to the subject of Rory Gallagher and asks Donal what he thought of his success. Donal says it was unbelieveable. He says he never played with him. Tim speaks about how Rory was experimenting with trad before his death and had worked with Ronny Drew. Donal speaks again about Rory starting on off the accordion.

Tim asks did they work to a set list. Donal says they did within reason. It would happen in Scotland all right, they would get a setlist sheet he says. He remembers once they were playing in Dufftown in Scotland and at quarter to two there were three dancers left and he was convinced they would finish up but they kept going to get value for money.

He doesn’t think anyone wrote a song about him, he jokes that a fellow has to die before they will talk about him. Tim says when he was young he would hear of a man who was nicknamed “Take the floor” Dinjo. (Note: Denis Fitzgibbon who hosted a popular Irish music dancing radio show called Take The Floor) Donal says he had a great influence on the scene. His father was mad for listening to him on the radio. Donal says he worked with him once when they did a tour with the Blarney Ceili band. They did a tour of Kerry and parts of Cork with Dinjo.  He agrees that the Irish dancing came across well on the radio because you could hear the tapping. Donal thought it was a great idea.

He says he knew the folklorist and broadcaster Ciarán Mac Mathúna as well, he did great work for Irish music he says. He says Paddy O Connor was talking about doing the recordings with him on the radio recently. He lived for Irish music he says.

Tim mentions a number of names of traditional Irish musicians, Jackie Daly, Matt Cranitch and Seamus Creagh. Donal says he went to school with Matt Cranitch’s father and knows Matt well. Donal says he has a saying which he has often told. If you got a line long enough and start in Kinsale and divide Ireland in two up to the North every musician on the East Coast is superior to those on the West which he admits is a controversial opinion. He says all the best musicians were on the Eastern side of the line, he lists some. The Gallowglass Ceili Band, Jackie Ahern, Dermot O Brien, Blarney Ceili Band, Jackie Hearst.. He admits that the Kilfenora Céilí Band were very good and his own father was a great Kilfenora man but he says he never liked the pure trad style, he likes a cleaner style but he says they were a dance band.  He says he has a cousin in Ballingeary who is a great player and he jokes he will kill him for saying it but he says when musicians from the West and East coasts play together they’re not together. There’s different interpretations of the tune by different players.

1.35.25 - 1.42.05

Tim mentions the renowned Clare fiddle player Martin Hayes and asks if he was a member of the Kilfenora Céilí Band to which Donal says he thinks he was. He say the Kilfenora have come along in a big way and he’s delighted for them. Tim mentions Dermot O'Brien the musician from Co Louth who was also a GAA footballer. Donal says the best the three best accordion players in the country were from Louth, he lists them as Dermot O Brien, Fintan Stanley and Paddy Neary. When Tim asks Donal where he would put himself Donal says he was alright to which Tim says he heard he was one of the best.

Tim asks him if he knew other well known Cork characters such as Bernie Murphy and Bishop Con Lucey. Donal says he knew Bernie Murphy well and he mentions another Cork character from Fairhill who would do a trick where he would flip a penny up in the air then kick it up again with the heel of his shoe and then catch it in his coat pocket. He can’t think of his name but thinks his first name was Donie. Donal says he would do this trick for fun. He was famous for this trick and would do it on the street. (Note: this mans name was Donie Murphy and his nickname was Mad Donie. This information was found on the Facebook group Old Photographs Of Cork City And County).

Donal mentions another Cork character who was known as the Bowler. He would bowl the bowls down Patrick Street. Donal says he came from Shandon. He would wear a white raincoat and a cap and Donal was selling confectionary at the time and he would meet him and the Bowler would say to him “I bate Mick Barry boy!” (Mick Barry the famous bowler). Donal would be ribbing him and said he didn’t to which the Bowler would say “watch this” and he threw the bowl down Patrick Street. Donal says there wasn’t as much traffic on the street then but it was still dangerous as it was an iron ball.

Donal says he met Mick Barry the Cork bowler once when he was sick out in Ballincollig, Donal says his wife Bridies uncle beat him at bowling once, Jamsey Sullivan (James O Sullivan) from Killeens and he had the cup to show for it. He says that Jamsey threw a bowl up on top of the viaduct (on the Cork to Bandon road) but Mick Barry threw the bowl over it which was a sixteen ounce ball. He says the O Sullivan’s were all great bowlers and he mentions another Paul O Sullivan another from Blackpool Benny. He mentions they were also great tug o war men. There was a tug o war team in Killeens one time and in connection with this he mentions a Dan Twohig, he says the Twohigs were great men. He says you could hurt yourself easily at tug o war.

Tim asks what did Donal think of Riverdance and he said it was unreal. He says it didn’t do themselves in the band any harm audience wise. He says Michael Flatley is a great dancer and Donal went to see the live show, he says everything about it is spot on. He can see it continuing on, he agrees that it fed the competitive side of dancing.

Tim asks Donal if he thinks RTE were good to Cork music in general to which Donal says he doesn’t think so. He says they had to fight to get on it. He says that they were lucky that Donncha O Dulaing liked the band and put them on a lot of shows. He says Gina Dale Haze And The Champions who he says were a great band never got a shot on RTE, he says it was the same with the Gallowglass Ceili Band. He can’t understand it, he says they got on radio all right and the Blarney band but he says “if you’re not in Dublin you’re only in Ireland”. Tim asks about the BBC if they ever contacted them to which Donal says they did a few shows with BBC Scotland.

Tim asks if the clergy ever got involved in the dancing (in an authoritarian way) to which Donal says they never interfered with them. He mentions a Fr Jim Donovan in Blackpool who was then moved to Dunmanway and he would book them for Dunmanway, he got them a lot of work there. He is now in Ballinlough he says.

Tim ask if he has seen any young up and coming Cork acts that appeal to him and how he sees the ceili business going. He mentions that his son Donie started an accordion night in Pa Johnsons, the pub and people come from all round for it.

1.42.07 - 0.00.00

Donal speaks about his hopes for the future of ceili. He would like to see it continue but the thinks when his generation are gone we will have to wait a good few years for it to come Back and he believes it will come back in a cycle, he says everything gets a cycle but he can’t see it coming back for a long time. Tim asks him does he go see live acts these days to which Donal says now and again. He says a lot of them are one or two man bands, he says they are earning their money as it is tough with just one or two in terms of setting up equipment etc.

Tim asks Donal if he used to read Spotlight Magazine and if he ever made the cover. (Note: Spotlight was an Irish music magazine mainly focusing on Showbands, it was later re- named New Spotlight). Donal says he heard of it. He mentions that Top Of The Pops was in that and a song he recorded called “Beautiful City” in Top Of Pops for six weeks. (Note: The reference to Top Of The Pops appears to be a reference to a music charts related section of Spotlight rather than the BBC music programme). Donal says he got a call from John Woods of Polydor Records, Donal mentions that he was a brother of Michael Woods the Fianna Fáil TD. John said to Donal that there was big demand for a song called Beautiful City and he asked would Donal and his band record it. Donal says the tenor Paul O Leary whom he mentioned earlier was singing it. They left and Donal was in his car and Paul was after buying a Renault. Donal says he passed Paul, then Paul passed him and vice versa. They arrived in Portlaoise and they were booked in there for lunch. Donal says a Mrs Grey came out and said they were in big trouble and one of the band were after going into the bog in Urlingford. Paul O Leary, and Donal’s brother Michael and Paul O Leary were in the car. She said no one was hurt but they were shaken. Paul had lost control coming into Urlingford and the car swung around and went into the bog. He mentions that Beautiful City was six weeks at number two in the Irish charts; they were just behind the Dixie’s. He says they didn’t come close with anything after. A discussion of Donal’s collection of photographs follows, talk of looking through them on another day is discussed. Tim mentions that Donal was winner of Cork Person Of The Month. A reception in City Hall for him is discussed and Donal says the president of the time Mary Macalise was there. Donal says that the man who set up the Cork to Swansea ferry won it (Cork Person Of The Year), Conor Buckley. He mentions that the service is now gone again. He says of his own night in the City Hall it was a bit nerve wracking. The City Council were very good to him he says and it was a great night. He got Cork Person Of The Month for March he says. He says that Sean McCarthy, the Cork sculptor did a bust of Donal which is out in the hall of his home for the bands 50’th anniversary. He mentions that he’ll be 80 soon and will be having a big night in Glenville at the end of the week. He says he might do simple stuff like Waltzes as jigs and reels are too strenuous at 80.

Tim thanks Donal for speaking to him and wraps up the interview.

Interview ends 1.49.05