NC: Mr Ray, that’s right. Mr Ray. He cleaned. He fixed our shoes for us and then the Firkin Crane. The Firkin Crane was part of the Butter Factory, I’d say because that was the Butter Factory and I remember they’d come then with a big lorry and a thing coming out, like a pipe coming out of it and they’d put in all the stock what we used call the butter and there’d be murder then because if they spilt any of it, we’d skite, you know, we’d skite so em the Butter Factory was there years and years like we had O’Gormans which I worked in.
GH: Could you tell me a little bit about that?
NC: Sewing the peeks of the caps in O’Gormans and Mr O’Gorman himself was the boss. Then all the men were down and what fascinated me more when I was in there first. They were all drinking out of jam jars and water or they made tea or anything, they’d be the lot out of jam jars. I used be fascinated. You see I was very young going to O’Gormans.
GH: What age were you at that time?
NC: Fifteen only I’d say. My sister worked there as well on a machine.
GH: It was all hats were made there?
NC: All hats and caps because the cap came in, you’d have peek caps where it had to be stitched. They usen’t be stitched but then they got a new thing stitching so I was one of the stitchers that’s how I came a very good stitcher I think, stitching all the caps in O’Gormans and one little mistake and t’would be brought back to you.
GH: Did it burn down in the end?
NC: It burned down there only a few years ago and I don’t think it ever re-opened anymore.
JCK: Well now, there was a substantial population in a very, very small area. Because of small houses, up a laneway, you could have thirty, forty or fifty houses. So with big families in small houses, you had a sizeable population and taking up very little area. Now, the people that lived there -- you had a variety. The variety in the sense you had poor people, but you had people who would be considered very well off. And the reason for it was -- as an example, Corbett’s Lane. If you walked up Corbett’s Lane, the first four houses would be small houses with ordinary people, working class people, in them. When you came to the fifth house, it would be a two-story farmhouse with a big black gate, tarred gate, above it, and a big yard at the back of the house. Now, at the back of that house, the people who lived in that house had cattle and sheep. Now, you could -- you could have the same thing in another couple of houses and then a big double storey house, and you could continue up the lane at both sides with that situation. So you had poor, and people who would be considered fairly well off for the times, all living in the one lane. Now at the top of the lane, my grandmother, Polly Kelleher, lived, my father’s mother, and across the way from their house was two tripe houses, Welsh’s and Reilly’s, and around the corner, you had another tripe house, Dylan’s. So you had three tripe, drisheen places at the top of Corbett’s lane, at the junction of Corbett’s -- top of Corbett’s Lane and Kearney’s Lane. And at one -- at one o’clock in the day the hooter would go in those places and a lot of women would come out with their rubber aprons and their clogs for their dinner break, and they all lived in the laneways around. So you had plenty -- you had a lot of work going on in those places because you -- as well as tripe and drisheen houses you had slaughter-houses. And to go back to those days, we weren’t far from the countryside, so you could understand that a lot of the men that lived in the area were butchers, and predominantly the butchers came from the north side of the city rather than the south side, because of the area that they were, you had the slaughter-houses. Now, as well as that then, you had families who, their father reared them, and they earned their wages by being cattle-drovers. They’d go up -- the men’d go up Fairhill at two or three o’clock in the morning, round up cattle belonging to the farmers and hunt the cattle from there down to Midleton, or to Carrigaline, or out to Macroom for the fairs at seven o’clock. As a matter of fact, there was one fair held every Saturday morning right over off Anglesea Street, across from the Garda Station, in that little square there across from the Garda Station. Every Saturday morning you had a fair there, and there’d be sheep and pigs on sale there. And those two pubs, one -- the two of them are there but one is idle at the moment -- and eh twas -- they were farmers’ pubs.
DM: When I was growing up it would in latter years would always be Blackpool, Dublin Hill looking down on the city. A sense of my own place there like you know what I mean walking through it but I have to say since I’ve been involved in the Cork Foyer Project in the Assumption, sit down there, have your cup of coffee, look down over Blackpool, rained like last winter, last Christmas there when the snow, sit down enjoy inside in the glass house looking out, Jesus ‘twas a piece of heaven, you know what I mean that would be, I’d have to say that scene is good enough for me at the moment anyway.
Speaks of the poverty in the Middle Parish which necessitated buying goods on credit and selling clothes and jewellery to pawnshops. Mentions pawn locations. Mentions bringing empty bottles to shops to fill them with milk.
Discusses the conditions of the tenement houses in the Middle Parish including the sanitation arrangements such as outdoor toilets and the use of newspaper as toilet paper, he also mentions heating issues including timber, turf and coal which was available via a voucher scheme. Further discusses cooking, washing in the tenements including the introduction of gas and electricity. Also mentions medicines for lice and worms administered at home.
Says that boys and girls played different games separately when he was growing up. Mentions some of these games in more detail.
Discusses foods (including tripe and drisheen, pig’s tongue, Connie Dodgers) meal routines and the shops where food was purchased. Liam and his mother brought lunch to his father where he worked on the docks.
Returns to the topic of corner shops and shopping and the types of food available there, further comparing this to supermarkets today.
Speaks of the death of his mother and the change in living circumstances that this entailed.
Describes getting a vaccination in the dispensary, what it was like inside and who worked there.
Mentions fights outside bars at night time.
Talks about air raid shelters built in Cork city during the Second World War, what they looked like and where they were located.
]]>Liam Ó hUigín: Grattan Street, Healthcare, The Marsh
Liam grew up on Henry Street in The Marsh and recalls playing football on Grattan Street which was busy and full of activity with businesses, pubs, shops a fire station, barber shops and tenements. He discusses some shops and games in more detail.
Speaks of the poverty in the Middle Parish which necessitated buying goods on credit and selling clothes and jewellery to pawnshops. Mentions pawn locations. Mentions bringing empty bottles to shops to fill them with milk.
Discusses the conditions of the tenement houses in the Middle Parish including the sanitation arrangements such as outdoor toilets and the use of newspaper as toilet paper, he also mentions heating issues including timber, turf and coal which was available via a voucher scheme. Further discusses cooking, washing in the tenements including the introduction of gas and electricity. Also mentions medicines for lice and worms administered at home.
Says that boys and girls played different games separately when he was growing up. Mentions some of these games in more detail.
Discusses foods (including tripe and drisheen, pig’s tongue, Connie Dodgers) meal routines and the shops where food was purchased. Liam and his mother brought lunch to his father where he worked on the docks.
Returns to the topic of corner shops and shopping and the types of food available there, further comparing this to supermarkets today.
Speaks of the death of his mother and the change in living circumstances that this entailed.
Describes getting a vaccination in the dispensary, what it was like inside and who worked there.
Mentions fights outside bars at night time.
Talks about air raid shelters built in Cork city during the Second World War, what they looked like and where they were located.
0.00.00 - 0.00.31 |
intro |
0.00.31 - 0.02.55 |
Memories of Grattan Street and surrounding area Shops and Buildings Grattan Street was a busy street with many businesses. Most important was the fire brigade. When the new St Francis Church was being built (Broad Lane church as it was called by people in the Middle Parish) the fire brigade amalgamated with Sullivan’s Quay and the priest of Old Broad Lane church moved into the old fire brigade building while new church was being built. Children missed the excitement of the fire brigade. Very vibrant street. 6 pubs: Kellehers, Crosses, Landers, Carrols (later called the Tostal Inn), Ramble Inn (owned by Mrs Brick) two Murphys public houses near Broad Lane which runs from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Shops and sweet Shops: The Rodisses, The People’s Dairy, The M Laundries, 2 Gents Hairdressing Saloons (called barber shops): Leahy’s and Keanes. Where the Community Centre is now was called Mechanics Hall, because the mechanics had a union and meetings there. Later it was known as Matt Talbot Hall. There were lots of tenement houses in the area. [Liam’s phone rings.] |
0.03.06 - 0.05:04 |
Tenement Houses, Lanes, playing in Graveyard Where Patrick Hanely Buildings are now there were tenement houses. Liam only barely remembers them as they were being demolished in the late 1940s and early 1950s. They were derelict sites for a while, which was his playground. St Peter’s Cemetery down Peter Church Lane, playing among the headstones, and hiding or planking cigarettes. Shops: Manning’s Shops at corner of Henry Street and Grattan Street, Mrs Mullins at corner of Coleman’s Lane. From Coleman’s Lane to Adelaide Street there were 4 or 5 houses there with 4 or 5 families in each house. Remembers Shinkwin? Family, the Dineens. When they moved out they went to Gurranabraher, Ballyphehane and the suburbs in Ballincollig. |
0.05:04 - 0.06.56 |
Childhood Games and Activities Very little Traffic on the roads at the time. Liam was living in Henry Street round the corner from Grattan Street. Recalls soccer matches from one end of the street to the other and wouldn’t see a car. Friends who came from Blarney Street or Barrack Street couldn’t understand why the streets were so wide and loved it for a game of football. If a woman with a pram approached while they were playing football they would pick up the ball or if they played near the Mercy Hospital they knew that they should keep quiet without anyone telling them and Liam thinks that has changed today. Many of his friends live in Grattan Street and everyone was a happy family until there was a row and they had a battering match with “stones down the quarry”. They used to swim by the Mercy Hospital by the ladder. And then on to ‘the pipe’ up the Lee Fields and then the weir and every second day they had the Lee Baths one day for boys one for girls. Today it’s mixed. |
0.06.56 - 0.11.32 |
Poverty-Buying on Credit and using Pawn Shops Could get messages or shopping on tick or on credit. Milk, bread, quarter (pound) of cheese. There was no bottle of milk you had to bring in your own jug. If you ran out of money the shopkeeper would write it into a book and at the end of the week you could pay it off. A few people could afford not to be ‘on tick’. There were a few pawn shops on the North Main Street one near north Gate Bridge Jones, another across from Coleman’s Lane called Twomeys. There may have been more. There was one at the bottom of Shandon street owned by Jones as well. There were 18 or 19 pawn shops around the city one at bottom of Patrick’s Hill, one by fire brigade station on Sullivan’s Quay, two on Barrack Street. People would pawn clothes. Tradesmen would pawn trowels on Monday morning. Often for drink/ alcohol. Wives would pawn husband’s suit and take it back the following Saturday for going to mass. Nearly everyone used the pawn it was the forerunner to the Credit Union. If you pawned a pair of shoes for 10 shillings, you got a docket and you had to pay 11 shillings to get it back. Wives would be stressed making sure they could get the husband’s suit back in time for mass. It was a thriving business. If you didn’t claim your pawned items after a certain period it was put for sale in the window. Some people would pawn things openly. Other people would hide it under a shawl, or pretend to be pawning something for someone else. People felt ashamed. Almost everyone was scraping a living. Even some shopkeepers looked after people who may not have had enough to pay at the end of the week. At Christmas the shopkeeper would give you a present of a Christmas Cake or Christmas Candle depending on what type of customer you were. |
0.11.32 - 0.13.02 |
Work, Pawns, Showing off Wealth Liam doesn’t remember what or whether his family pawned. Liam’s dad was a docker which was paid on a daily basis and his mother was shrewd enough to put away some money every day. He knew that relations of his pawned things though. Bracelets, wedding ring, engagement ring, rarely a watch very few people had watches. Liam knew someone who went to work in Dagenham and he came back a Dagenham Yank with a different accent “a twang” and a watch. He walked into centre of Henry Street, pulled up his sleeve and pretended to be winging his watch while looking at Shandon clock tower just to show off his watch. |
0.13.02 - 0.13.46 |
Telephone Phones were also very scarce. One shop in Henry Street had a phone and there was a queue there for people wanting to use it. There was another phone booth by Vincent’s Bridge coming down Sunday’s Well. Liam remembers playing there and being afraid to go in to answer the phone. |
0.13.46 - 0.18.37 |
Tenement conditions, Emigrants, Social Comparison, Fuel Poverty Laneways around there: Philip’s Lane from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Skiddy’s Castle from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Coleman’s Lane, Peter Church Lane (now Avenue), Broad Lane (at the back of the church), all on to North Main Street from Grattan Street. Conditions were basic looking back with an outdoor toilet. One family on Henry Street had ten families with one cold tap in back yard and one toilet between them. They had to clean out every morning and bring an enamel bucket upstairs every morning. Had an inferiority complex about relations coming home from England. The relatives would be dressed up in finery but later Liam discovered they were also badly off but made the effort when coming home. The story of someone’s uncle who came back from America after 40 years and the family had moved out to the suburbs and they had a barbeque. And the uncle used the toilet inside the house. He said he used to eat inside and the toilet was outside and now it is reversed! They used newspaper instead of toilet paper. Turf and timber blocks for fuel for heating which father got going out the Straight Road. Some people got a voucher for a peck of coal which might only be a large shovel full. Some families got vouchers for free shoes like in the shop Furlongs in South Main Street (owner may have been lord mayor later) Liam wasn’t sure where the vouchers came from- maybe the Health Board. Doesn’t think there was any child benefit. Maybe the Sick Poor would provide the vouchers. They would visit people and the people would try to hide that they were calling. |
0.18.37 - 0.22.42 |
Cooking, Bathing, Hygiene and Medicines No cooking facilities only the fire. Mother would cook pot of potatoes on the fire and then transfer to the hob. 1948 no electricity in Henry Street at the time. When they got gas in mother told him not to leave kitchen door open to hide it from Liam’s grandmother who lived upstairs and was the real tenant. It wasn’t an oven it was a thing on a stand with two rings on it. Older people were afraid of being gassed. Saturday night the galvanised bath was put in front of fire with hot water and washed, and if you were the last person in the bath the water would be dirty. And then the children were lined up against the wall to get a weekly does of cod liver oil, or Brutlax, California syrup of figs, Senna? All because of worms. Some newspaper put on the table and hair combed with fine tooth comb to get rid of lice- it was an ordeal. Brutlax was like chocolate but a laxative. Milk of magnesia used as well. Given those every Saturday night to prevent you getting sick. Some of them had a terrible taste. If someone got sick taken to the dispensary. |
0.22.42 - 0.24.12 |
Children’s Games Different for boys and girls Spent much time in the derelict site where Patrick Hanley Buildings are now, used to connect to Cove street. They had battering matches with stones and they were going to the Mercy Hospital 4 or 5 times a week. They used to play chasing hiding from the nuns around the Mercy Hospital. Could bring a spinning top and hit is with a whip up and down the road without fear of traffic. Girls would tie a rope to a pole and swing around it and skipping as well. |
0.24.12 - 0.31.57 |
Food, traditions, routines. Lunch at Work Porridge for breakfast which you eat if you were given. His grandchildren now have a choice of 5 cereals. Goodie- bread and milk mixed maybe with sugar sprinkled on it. Some shops on North Main Street like Simcox or Currans Bakery you could get bread wrapped in soft tissue paper which was kept in a drawer at home for when visitors came to use for the toilet because it was better than newspaper. Potatoes and cabbage. Father loved pigs meat: pig’s heat, backbone, pig’s tail, crubeens. Liam still loves a crubeen except for the trouble of cooking of it, and it’s messy to eat. Mother was reared around Vicar Street. Barrack Street, Blarney Street, Shandon Street: that’s the way people lived because there was little Gurranabraher built and Ballyphehane wasn’t built yet. Tripe and drisheen is still a favourite, can get from Reilly’s in the market. Tripe cut into little pieces, with cornflower, onions, “white sauce”, drisheen put in later. Tripe and drisheen would be weekly. Liam loved the pig’s tongue because it was lean. Set day for each food. Liam’s dad was a docker and he would cut the ear off the pig’s head, put it in a sandwich with bread and butter, wrap in newspaper and that was his lunch. He wasn’t the only one. Thinks tripe is from sheep’s stomach. Blood in the drisheen. Connie Dodgers for Lent allowed one meal and two collations. Con Lucey said you could have a biscuit with a cup of tea as a collation. Liam thinks it was Larry McCarthy’s bakery that made a biscuit twice as big as the normal one. For Lent had to fast every Friday and couldn’t eat meat, except for people of a certain age. Religion was a big thing for people at the time. Lent didn’t bother Liam’s dad. Dockers worked hard. Where Elysian Tower is now, where the Eglinton Baths were Liam went with his mother and a bowl of soup and bread and butter and a tea towel over it. The dockers sat on the kerb eating their soup and sandwiches and they were all black with dirt no washing of hands. All the work was shovelling coal, Liam worked there for 2 days and had enough of it- nearly wanted a small shovel to fill the shovel he had. His dad was small but very wiry and strong. “They were marvellous people” |
0.31.57- 0.37.05 |
Pastimes, Shops and Opening Hours Dad spent time in the pub maybe too much. People listened to the radio or sat in front of the fire reading the newspaper. Some people with go hunting or play football or hurling. Liam plays golf now but at the time it was only for the elite doctors and solicitors. Liam’s dad never stood inside a golf club. Liam was 10 when his mother died she would offer him tripe and drisheen or a creamy cake for dinner and he would choose the cake. The corner shops are gone now because of the supermarkets. Corner shops on Henry Street were: Bode’s?, Mannings, Horrigan’s, Dermot’s on Adelaide Street. Dermot’s was first all-night shop in the city- wouldn’t be there during the day. Open from 8pm to 8am. A salesman in coca cola told Liam that Dermot lived on Pope’s Quay and owned a Morris Minor car and he drove it to Adelaide Street 7 days a week and the car was ten years old and there wasn’t 5,000 miles on it because that was all the driving he did. In Ballypheane Liam sees people carrying lots of bags after shopping in Aldi on Tory Top Road. Liam remembers going to Dermot’s for quarter pound of cheese (3 or 4 slices), half pound of tea, 2 eggs, there were no fridges so you bought and you ate them there was little storage. Dermot would put greaseproof paper over the blade and cut perfectly a few slices of cheese which had come from a timber box. Girls were interested in the box for making cots for dolls. There was no variety of cheese available just the one block. Sugar was available in quarter pounds rather than big bags. Men coming home from the pub would be sent back out to get a box of cocoa or milk from Dermot’s. There was no one on the street after 12 o’clock unlike today when there’s lots of people around after nightclubs. |
0.37.05 - 0.39.00 |
Death of Mother and Family Living Arrangements When Liam’s mom died his aunt who had 6 children moved upstairs from Liam. She has 5 daughters and 1 son and the son died of meningitis at 4 years old. Liam’s grandfather was dead. Aunt moved to grandmother in Vicar Street to look after her. Liam was going to school in Mardyke, father’s place during the day, went to grandmother’s in Vicar Street for food and washing and then back to the Marsh to sleep. He skipped school for almost 3 months (‘on the lang’) until the school wrote to his dad, who gave him a lecture. He was nearly 14 then and on the verge of leaving school anyway. |
0.39.00 - 0.44.13 |
The Dispensary now Grattan Street Health Centre, Tinsmith and Nurse Lots of cases of meningitis. Everyone in Cork used to go to the Dispensary. Everyone now in their 70s seems to remember Dr Cagney. He would give a bottle of coloured water. If you forgot your bottle you had to go to Mr Gamble the tinsmith in Grattan Street. He made ponnies, gallons, billycans. But when plastic came in there was no need for tinsmiths. Remembers getting injection or vaccination from Dr Cagney, thinks it may have been for smallpox but is not sure. He dreaded the needles for the syringes which were “like six-inch nails”. You went through a gate, into a yard and there were steps leading up to the entrance. A grey-haired woman maybe called Mrs O’Keefe. There were benches like in a church. There were hatches. You queued up for the doctor. And the hatches gave you the medicine. Other place for illness was Mercy Hospital. Recalls a midwife Nurse Anthony who called to people’s houses. Liam thought when younger than it was the midwife who brought babies on her bicycle. Aunt lived on Thomas Street (a continuation of Peter’s Street) to the back entrance of the Mercy Hospital where the “dead house” was where Liam’s mother was laid out. Remembers the Quirkes and the Horgans, Glandons?, McCarthys living there too and they all moved out when Mercy took over the whole block. Liam doesn’t remember playing around inside the Dispensary. |
0.44.13 - 0.45.35 |
Making vs Buying Lunch People who worked in Dispensary didn’t live in area. Doesn’t think people make lunches for work anymore. In modern day people go to shops like Spar for sandwiches and rolls. Wives/mothers used to make “lunches for them in the morning” for children who were working and there was a can with milk, tea and sugar. |
0.45.35 - 0.46.14 |
Families Living in Dispensary Grattan Street Thinks Mrs O’Keefe was only working there, possibly the cleaner. Mrs O’Keefe may not have been her name. Liam doesn’t think they were charging people in the dispensary. |
0.46.14 - 0.50.55 |
Attitude to health, Pubs, Fights, Market Gardens, Childhood Mischief There was no such thing as being left on a trolley. The Mercy hospital was the only hospital Liam knew, and every child in the Marsh went there at least once after a fall, hit with a stone on the head, a few stitches. Although, Liam’s aunt lost a son to meningitis. Didn’t have the medicines we have today. They were simple times but he doesn’t remember going hungry ever. Lots of pubs on Grattan Street and people were spending lots of time and money which put a burden on the family. Saturday night on Grattan Street there would usually be a fight, stripped to the waist. Bonfire night used to be a great night but no longer. No awareness of mental health. Called the Lee Road the Madhouse Road. First coloured person Liam ever saw was on Sheares Street and when they saw him they called him “Johnny the Black” and they got a chase. A chase was very important for children at the time. Fisherman on Wise’s Quay near Vincent’s Bridge the children used to throw stones in to frighten the fish away and the fisherman would chase them. Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday the market gardeners would bring their produce on horse and carts to the Coal Quay and the shopkeepers would come to buy vegetables off them. Liam and the children would steal (“knock off”) some cabbage and carrots. “Oliver Twist was only trotting after us”. |
0.50.55 - 0.51.15
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Sweets You’d get a few sweets in Woolworths from the girls who worked there, to prevent them trying to steal them! |
0.51.15 - 0.55.10
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WW2 Air Raid Shelters in Cork Three air raid shelters on Sheare’s Street, 2 in Henry Street and maybe a few in Grattan Street, at least one. O’Connell on Sheares Street was in charge of air raid shelter no 3. Fear of being bombed by German’s during World War 2 mass concrete buildings rather than underground. Liam has photograph of an air raid shelter on Patrick Street outside the Victoria Hotel and a photograph of it being knocked down. The son of the man who had the key to air raid shelter no 3 would rent out the space to old children if it was raining and they wanted to use it to play cards. In the 1940s. he lived at corner of Moore Street and Sheares Street. They were being demolished in 1948 or 1949. Air raid shelter remains inside the door of Elizabeth Fort and there are 2 on the grounds of the South Infirmary (Victoria Hospital), they’ve now been converted to stores. If you stand at bottom of South Terrace and you look up at “Rock Savage” on top of the hill at the back of the South Infirmary you can see it protruding out. Liam remembers the LDF became the FCA and that their “top coats” were good as blankets during the winter as you could put your hands into the pockets. Nearly every house had an army coat on the bed. Everyone was issued with a gas mask, Liam has one from a friend of his. Everyone had to be measured for their gas mask at the city hall or in schools. Liam’s dad wasn’t not in the LDF but his uncle was and it was his coat that was on the bed. |
0.55.10 - 0.59.24 |
Grattan Street, Dispensary, surrounding lanes, Terence MacSwiney connection Grattan Street was busy, vibrant street, always something happening there. Can’t believe seeing the traffic there now. Liam took a photograph of Prince Charles stopped in traffic outside the plaque to Patrick Hanely Buildings. The Dispensary was a historical place, there was a time when Grattan Street was a river and Meeting House Lane from North Main Street (at the side of Bradleys) was the entrance to any of the buildings on Grattan Street. Henry Street was known as Penrose Quay. On Adelaide Street at the back of where Curran’s Restaurant was there was a square called Penrose Square- after the Penrose Family that lived in Tivoli. If you come down Coleman’s Lane from Grattan Street and enter North Main Street up on the wall there are four plaques for the building where Terence MacSwiney was born. People think he was born in Blackpool because they confuse him with Tomas MacCurtain. Terence married one of the Murphy brewers. Liam is very interested in Terence MacSwiney and loves talking about him, maybe because he comes from the same area in Cork. |
0.59.24 - 0.59.41
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Outro. Interview Ends. |
Describes the family home and routine chores. Speaks about the importance of sport especially tennis in her family upbringing.
Recalls her school days including instances of corporal punishment and the negative effects it had on people. Went home for lunch, mother prepared their dinner using meat from their butcher shop.
Describes secondary boarding school in Loreto Fermoy, especially the structure it imposed.
Speaks of how she had always intended to become a nurse. May have learned traits and habits useful for her career from her mother’s work ethic. Describes her nursing training in the Mercy Hospital and how the rosary was said there every night.
Describes her path to Public Health Nurse training in Dublin. Talks about her desire to work in the community rather than in the constraints of a hospital. Describes the wide range of PHN duties from pregnancies, births, infants, acute injury support, addiction, disability, older adults to dying and palliative care.
Discusses her current role as Assistant Director of Public Health Nursing where she advocates for early intervention to prevent behavioural issues in children. Mentions the large staff turnover due to the difficulties of the work. Much of the work involves building relationships.
Speaks about how poverty, social disadvantage, addiction, alcoholism affect children’s health and create a negative cycle which PHNs have a role in breaking. Speaks of how difficult it is for someone who hasn’t had parental role model to function as a parent themselves.
Talks about the move from Grattan Street to St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre and how she misses the other medical teams.
Describes Grattan Street as happy place to work, enjoyed the building and its quirks such as the gallery which facilitated casual conversation and the rattling windows. Believes people enjoyed working there because they got something positive from the building. Mentions the difficulties with parking there and its impact on the wider community. Feels that the building owned them.
Speaks of her hopes for the future of Grattan Street building once services move out.
Discusses caring for and moving vaccines as a School Nurse.
States that Grattan Street was a special place.
]]>Eileen grew up in Tallow in west Waterford in a family of seven. Her father ran the family butcher business attached to the house. She recalls him singing and whistling, and the sawdust on the shop floor. Recalls meat and tripe being sold and drisheen being made by her mother, explains this process.
Describes the family home and routine chores. Speaks about the importance of sport especially tennis in her family upbringing.
Recalls her school days including instances of corporal punishment and the negative effects it had on people. Went home for lunch, mother prepared their dinner using meat from their butcher shop.
Describes secondary boarding school in Loreto Fermoy, especially the structure it imposed.
Speaks of how she had always intended to become a nurse. May have learned traits and habits useful for her career from her mother’s work ethic. Describes her nursing training in the Mercy Hospital and how the rosary was said there every night.
Describes her path to Public Health Nurse training in Dublin. Talks about her desire to work in the community rather than in the constraints of a hospital. Describes the wide range of PHN duties from pregnancies, births, infants, acute injury support, addiction, disability, older adults to dying and palliative care.
Discusses her current role as Assistant Director of Public Health Nursing where she advocates for early intervention to prevent behavioural issues in children. Mentions the large staff turnover due to the difficulties of the work. Much of the work involves building relationships.
Speaks about how poverty, social disadvantage, addiction, alcoholism affect children’s health and create a negative cycle which PHNs have a role in breaking. Speaks of how difficult it is for someone who hasn’t had parental role model to function as a parent themselves.
Talks about the move from Grattan Street to St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre and how she misses the other medical teams.
Describes Grattan Street as happy place to work, enjoyed the building and its quirks such as the gallery which facilitated casual conversation and the rattling windows. Believes people enjoyed working there because they got something positive from the building. Mentions the difficulties with parking there and its impact on the wider community. Feels that the building owned them.
Speaks of her hopes for the future of Grattan Street building once services move out.
Discusses caring for and moving vaccines as a School Nurse.
States that Grattan Street was a special place.
0.00.00 - 0.00.25 |
Intro |
0.00.25- 0.02.04 |
Background Started in Grattan Street 2002 had been in different positions but haven been there full-time since 2012 as Assistant Director of Public Health Nursing. Covers the nursing staff for the City North-West area population 27,000. 10 area PHNs [Public Health Nurses] community RGN teams (Registered General Nurse). Eileen is PHN, RGN and registered mid-wife. You have to be an RGN to become a PHN. Worked as an RGN first in the community in North Cork prior Grattan Street. Then did PHN course in Dublin UCD (University College Dublin). Returned to Grattan Street, work as PHN on the ground, in schools, preschools, inspecting in nursing homes, assistant director of PHN since 2009. She was in two other sectors before that. |
0.02.04 - 0.04.21 |
Childhood in Waterford Born a long time ago! In Tallow west Waterford. From family of 7, has an older brother and four younger brothers and one younger sister. Father was a butcher, family business. Went to school in Tallow, then Loreto in Fermoy and then to the Mercy Hospital and did RGN training, then Dublin to Hollis Street for midwifery training. [Eileen’s phone rings but she mutes or turns it off and continues the interview] There were about four butchers in Tallow but now only a Supervalu. She remembers her dad singing and whistling below in the shop when she was in bed in the morning. He and his father were good singers and whistlers. Remembers sawdust in the shop and it going all over the house. Father and mother going to the marts getting sheep and animals coming to the back yard and into the slaughter house. Grew up with it so didn’t see anything unusual in it. Good happy childhood. Brothers and her all involved in sport. She and parents played tennis. “We were brought up in a tennis court” played some hockey in school. Lots of sports, golf as well. But now doesn’t have time with work. |
0.04.21 - 0.06.36 |
House at Home Growing up Two storey house on the street. Shop was attached to it. Downstairs there was a living room, a kitchen and a back kitchen and a room off the shop and four bedrooms upstairs and a bathroom, a big garden, a shed and a slaughter house. Grew up as an only girl, her sister is 14 years younger. She had gone to boarding school/secondary school by the time she was born. Had lots of friends in Tallow, still has them, still keep in touch. Did a lot of work in the house, as she tells her mother who’s now 92. They were all given jobs to do. She had to hoover the sawdust. She was involved in the weekly bath for her brothers, making sure their shoes were polished every Saturday evening. Thinks that today it is different, perhaps because of parenting. Dad died 10 years ago suddenly from a heart attack which she says was lovely for him. Siblings all alive, one in England. |
0.06.36 - 0.10.57 |
Produce in the Butchers Drisheen, Tripe, Black Pudding. And the making of them. Meat was sold in the butchers and some onions. Mother made drisheen and black pudding every Thursday to be ready for Friday and Saturday. Sometimes she would get some tripe from the market in Cork and it would be sold in their shop. They didn’t make the tripe themselves but they did the drisheen and black puddings using the serum. Serum from the blood and milk and pepper was used in it. It is supposedly good for you. And they ate that every Saturday night on top of sausages and rashers and they keep that tradition going but without the drisheen. Very mild flavour. It’s the frying that gives it a flavour. Maybe someone who wasn’t used to it might find a stronger flavour. Doesn’t remember the flavour of any herbs. It was a light grey colour in comparison to black pudding. Possibly some kind of sausage meat added to the black pudding. There was a machine where it would come from. Serum is separation from the blood when it is allowed to settle and there is a strainer. You use what floats to the top and discard the rest. Father and sister loved tripe but Eileen never “acquired the flavour for tripe” served “with boiled onions and milk”. Eileen doesn’t remember the butcher shop selling pork. But she thinks she might be wrong about that because her father kept a pig and he won a trophy for his prize pig when Eileen was about 7. |
0.10.57 - 0.15.09 |
School, Corporal Punishment, going home for Dinner School in convent in Tallow. Carmelites enclosed order still in Tallow, they didn’t teach but it was in their area. Boys had a separate school at the time but now it is co-ed: boys and girls. Enjoyed school. Reasonably well-behaved because terrified. Teachers could slap you, corporal punishment. Eileen didn’t get slapped often because she was a good girl. Remembers a small ‘roundy’ stick which would be used to hit children around the knuckles. Some teachers had less patience than others and found it difficult but the students didn’t understand that. She is glad corporal punishment is gone because it lowered self-esteem, and put you at a disadvantage. It wasn’t just the slap, it was that someone had carried it out on you. You felt brutalised. It was very common, right up to the time her children were in primary school, some of the teachers at the ends of their careers there had a reputation for corporal punishment. Would get a slap if they thought you weren’t paying attention or if you were talking to someone. Spoke about corporal punishment with her friends subsequently. And she discovered terrible things that happened to people which she wasn’t aware about at the time. Slaps across the face, pulling of ears, hit on the head. “You were an easy target. They had the power.” It was difficult. She thinks that if you were involved in sport you were treated a bit differently, though not if you were academic. They had outside toilets in primary school- “leaves and cold and wet”. Was able to go home at lunchtime and have dinner. “My wonderful mother had my dinner ready every day. For the nine of us.” |
0.15.09 - 0.15.48 |
Dinner and Types of Foods For dinner they would meat that hadn’t been sold in the butcher’s shop. They might have steak for a treat on Thursday night but usually more reasonable cuts of beef and lamb. Always meat, vegetable and potatoes. Mother was a great cook and baker so they always had something sweet to eat as well. |
0.15.48 - 0.19.01 |
Secondary School Boarding School Boarded in Loreto Fermoy, her brothers went to De la Salle in Waterford. Her parents worked hard to get them that education. Her mother had boarded but her father had left school early. Some of her friends from home went to Loreto as well and she also made new friends there. There for 5 years. Happy enough time. Initially allowed home every third weekend, eventually allowed home every weekend. As an only girl it was good to be around female company, she thinks she would have just been bossing the boys around at home. First impression was of the structure of the place: all your recreation time was spent in the one place. And you were there with your class, it was all set out for you and you had to fall into line. “I wasn’t unhappy there.” Calls by day, hockey in afternoon- sometimes go to Cork for a match. Every Saturday they were not at home they went for walks, they walked through the town, on parade in their uniforms. Had music at night in the social room listening to records. Abiding memory is of seeing Dana winning the Eurovision. Maybe she saw something about Bloody Sunday as well.” |
0.19.01 - 0.20.36 |
Career Choice. Nursing. Mother’s education. Role of Religion. Mercy Hospital “For some reason I always had nursing in my head.” Maybe because her mother said she would have done nursing if she could- she had left school after her Junior Cert and did a year in a technical school where she got her baking skills. Mom was a great worker so thinks she would have made a great matron rather than a nurse because she would have wanted everything done properly. Eileen says she may have some of those traits herself. After Eileen’s training when she went into the hospital she felt claustrophobic “for some reason it didn’t sit well on me.” She did 3 years in the Mercy. There were nuns there at the time: “Great fun, hard work.” |
0.20.36 - 0.22.07 |
Role of religion in the Mercy Hospital. The rosary was said every night on the wards. Had to go down on your knees at 6 o’clock and shout out the decades of the rosary. Biggest thing was that they had to know the joyful, glorious and sorrowful mysteries. They went to mass every morning around 7am when they stayed in the nurses home for the first year and a half. Nuns were strict. She was only 17 when she was there so she thinks it might have been good. She didn’t regret doing nursing but she didn’t take it too seriously either. |
0.22.07 - 0.23.18 |
Nursing Training in Mercy Hospital Three years training but only got a certificate. Learned anatomy, physiology and putting it into practice and managing patients/clients, eventually managing a ward. Managing night-time with patients coming in. managing a children’s ward. Dealing with everything: clinical care, surgery, people dying. Children dying. Recalls children dying in St. Anne’s Ward that will never leave me. Delighted to see the Mercy is busy and expanding. She has fond memories of it. |
0.23.18 - 0.26.55 |
Route to PHN and Grattan Street Did a little bit of work there wasn’t much work for qualified nurses at the time. Went to Fermoy Hospital, a community hospital. Worked there for a few months. Went to Hollis Street and spent a year there- very interesting. Opening into a different experience in the capital. She was madly in love at the time came home frequently. Eventually went back to Fermoy Hospital and got married at 23 in June, and by October of the following year she had her first son and so gave up nursing. Husband was self-employed and was often away and she felt one of them needed to be there they had three children. When the children got older she decided to do a course in fitness and taught exercise classes for 8 years. She had tried to get into PHN but hadn’t enough experience. She met a friend in Fermoy in 1998 and she said why not go into the community they are looking for RGNs in North Cork. She applied, got it and then “got the bug for the community” and applied twice to UCC for PHN course and they didn’t think she was suitable. She was accepted in Dublin and found it challenging. She was 47 at the time. She was up there for three week period. She came home every weekend. She came home on placement for a two week period placed in North Cork. That’s how it operated for the academic year. it was manageable and she had always wanted to do it. She was going back into a group of nurses who had been working, who knew everything, who knew computers and Eileen could barely send a text message on a phone. She was accomplished at essays by the time she was finished. She entered Grattan Street 2002. |
0.26.55 - 0.28.25 |
Public Health Nursing Eileen enjoyed the freedom of PHN, didn’t like the constraints of the hospital and the regimental nature of it. PHN suited her. Liked going into clients’ homes and fitting in with them rather than them fitting into a structure in a hospital. She wonders about the broad, complex, extended and manic nature of what is being attempted in the community now. She hasn’t been out working in 2009 but she has been working managing staff inside and supporting them in client management. |
0.28.25 - 0.33.06 |
Role of Public Health Nurse Looking after clients from the ante-natal (pregnancy period) to the end of life care. Anything and everything in between that. A huge sphere. Looking after mums to be, babies, mums after birth, young children, acute discharges who need support around wound care, clients with mental health, addictions, disabilities, older adults, dying and palliative care. Thinks it’s now too broad now because the type of discharges are very complex, almost providing a hospital type care within the community. Sláinte Care- clients being discharged into the community. Eileen doesn’t think this can happen until they had sufficient resources to match the numbers being discharged to them, she needs an increased budget. City north west is an area of great disadvantage there are 20 DEDs (Electoral Divisions) in it 15 of which are designated as disadvantaged or very disadvantaged. Lots of complexities around parenting. This leads to children with behavioural issues. Eileen is always advocating for early interventions. Role of PHN was always health promotion and illness prevention. More hands on now doing clinical, assessments, referrals, ordering supplies, reviewing things. So what was formerly the PHN’s main role is no longer their main role. Early intervention is key, it would be very beneficial. In the city northwest area there are many non-statutory bodies area-based childhood programme, (Atlantic Philanthropy was supporting this for a while now it’s Tusla) they support families, parents, teachers, childcare workers increasing capacity around infant mental health. Springboard run by Tusla which support families. “Niche” in Hollyhill a family support agencies, and Barnardos as well. Eileen is involved with all of them in child welfare and protection. Would like to get the issues resolved at child welfare stage. Everyone that comes to work here gets great experience but no one stays for very long. Lost two staff in April. 1.5 staff were on maternity leave and not replaces and another 2 going on maternity leave. |
0.33.06 - 0.35.30 |
Turnover of Staff Turnover due to the challenging work. Often chasing people, offering them appointments to bring their children, but they don’t. When you go back they won’t answer the door, or their phone, and change their phone number, or don’t tell you that they’ve moved house. Not all people they deal with are like that but a core group are because they have had no parenting themselves and the cycle continues of disadvantage, poverty, poor education and housing, unemployment. “Entitlement stage” their parents were entitled to everything. In PHN there is no entitlement which they try to get across. Eileen thinks that people born and reared in poverty and with poor parenting have no chance of catching up because they don’t realise the level they are at. Eileen doesn’t know where to break that cycle though she thinks that PHN plays some role. Places in Dublin and Limerick also have areas of disadvantage. Eileen think that sometimes her staff give people what they think the people need but it may not be what they really need and sometimes the staff can’t get that information from people. It’s all about building relationships but it’s hard to build that relationship when people don’t want what you have to offer people. |
0.35.30 - 0.40.25 |
Child Development Problems- Multiple Causes, Complex Solutions Should they ensure that all children in primary school are fed? Or is that too late? An infant mental health specialist with young Knocknaheeny area child-based programme 0 to 2 years is pivotal in nurturing and bonding and if it doesn’t happen children end up with low self-esteem or behavioural problems. These become bigger problems later as the children have not developed skills in coping because they haven’t been shown them. And if it’s not there by age two they miss out on a lot. Ante-natal period classes with Young Knocknaheeny to build a relationship with the mothers when they have their babies which they have to see until they are 5. There are a lot of services for people but sometimes they don’t want to be seen as a target for the services, they don’t want to be seen as different. Eileen was initially shocked by that attitude, someone said “another service being thrown at us” and maybe they were saturated with services and it wasn’t something they wanted at all. If Eileen knew how to break that cycle she would patent it. She read an article by someone in charge of Bessborough- how can we expect young mums to parent a child when they were never shown and they had no role model. How to build trust and build a relationship because they can be very wary and distrustful of services. Parents think that if they don’t do what the PHN says or thinks is right that there could be child protection issues involved because this happened a lot in the past and sometimes a child was removed. But for social workers the last resort is to remove a child- the child as almost always better with the parents from their point of view. Eileen thinks that approach is a bit unusual, especially if there is no bond between parents and the child. Sometimes a child is removed for a period of time, and there are health professional meetings, case conferences, families come together and everything is discussed. Sometimes it doesn’t work but you have to try. In those cases there is a health professional meeting or a case conference meeting and the children go into foster care and maybe go back to the parents after a period. |
0.40.25 - 0.45.40 |
Social and Medical Issues in North Cork Area Most of the moms are single with different partners for the different children. Housing is an issue, expenses for school, dependence on drugs, alcohol, polypharmacy, mental health, self-neglect. A number of clients are alcoholics who come home and expect the HSE to provide services. They can refer clients to the mental health services but the client has to agree to go. And there is a lot of that. Lots of young people with disabilities which she was surprised at she felt she had been very “sheltered”. When she came from North Lee so many people had disabilities or something wrong with a lot of people. The stats are quite high. North Cork is rural but North Lee is exceptional. One third fit into that category. Mental health and addiction issues are shocking. Grandparents are minding grandchildren because their children aren’t capable. She had no exposure to this until she arrived and so she was unprepared for it. Eileen could retire any time she wants but she likes the work but will retire in a few years. She tries to make a difference. |
0.45.40 - 0.49.40
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Compares Grattan Street to new St Mary’s Primary Care Centre. Car Park issues. Get pleasure from the new building in St Mary’s so different to Grattan Street. When in Grattan Street they loved it and linking in with the team and got stuck in the car park. Eileen had a database with all the cars and numbers and if anyone was in a parking space who wasn’t registered they would get a note on their car. The car park nearly broke their hearts. Eileen was in a 7:20 every morning to get the parking space and would dread having to go anywhere because your space would be gone. When she went there as a novice PHN she didn’t like the outside of the building but once inside she felt comfortable there, and the staff were nice in there. They always knew if someone was sick or had a bereavement. When she left Grattan Street she had a room there but it is now full with other things and incontinence wear. Jokingly blames Sean Higgisson the porter for this. Some of the rooms in Grattan Street are beginning to look neglected and old. Some of the team are not looking forward to moving up to St Mary’s. They are anxious about the move. But many with Eileen were as well before they moved but at least her team are all in the one place now. She feels they are well-settled in St Mary’s now and they like it and she told Sean the porter and Celine in admin this. They’re not really missing Grattan Street. |
0.49.40 - 0.57.13
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Typical Day in Grattan Street and Changes. Hospital Discharges. Arriving in Grattan Street first it was similar to what she had been used to in North Cork. (North Lee is from Youghal to Macroom) Was in Mayfield for a year. Was in Glanmire St Stephen’s for 2 years. 2012-2019 in Grattan Street. A typical day in Grattan Street was getting there early to park the car to be able to get out quickly. When traffic in Grattan Street became one way it really affected staff in Grattan Street- previously they were able to leave and go up Shandon Street but now they have to turn through narrow streets. Doesn’t feel they were told or consulted about that change. After getting their early she went for a walk because initially she didn’t have a key to the health centre. Walk to the quays, North Main Street into St Francis Church to pray for everyone (and for herself not to kill anyone). Back to Grattan Street, Sean would be there, have coffee, reply to emails, manage staff annual leave, sick leave professional development, pre-discharge meetings. She is on various boards and bodies which entailed various meetings. Would go St Finbarr’s [Hospital] head office once a week. Busy. Trying to find solutions to problems. Would think of something in bed at night but forget it by the time morning comes. Sometimes write a note in the phone and go back to sleep. In Grattan Street working with clients, working through correspondence, going to meetings: multi-disciplinary teams with more views, suggestions and options. Could be about a client having issues with self-neglecting, a client who deteriorated and needed extra supports. Mercy today for pre-discharge meeting for a very complicated case coming home. Previously the person had been discharge and within 36 hours he was found on the floor and the door had to be broken down- required the Gardaí, ambulance, nurse and home help. He refused to go to hospital. The following morning he was unwell again and he was sent to hospital. Now they want to send him home again. Many complexities come from not having next of kin and the nurse shouldn’t have to take on that responsibility. Capacity bill. Not always safe discharges. Reiterates connections with Young Knocknaheeny, Niche, Barnardos, Springboard. Try to link in with other groups and social work but feels they need to focus on their own work. Their cases are too big to be involved. Feels pulled and dragged a lot. As a PHN you are a manager of an area of 3,000 population which isn’t huge but the complexities make it hard. In a rural area there might be a population of about 5,000 but they wouldn’t all be active. |
0.57.13 - 1.01.40 |
Social Aspect Aoife O’Brien is great to get people together, comes up with idea, advertise, follow up, plan order things, get back to people and doesn’t force people and takes photos. Eileen takes pride in the Christmas party and restarting it. It’s the only time they really had events in Grattan Street. Allows you to have fun, eating and relaxing and speaking about plans. Someone made punch but with the change in driving laws and when that woman left they didn’t have it anymore. Lots of young people in Grattan Street now who go out after work to a bar but Eileen wouldn’t have done that. There was a lot of moving or transferring staff and they would do something for them like a lunch. Mixed well with admin, nursing, podiatry, school nurses, ophthalmology. Everyone knew where everyone was. When they came to St Mary’s first in early February (5th & 6th of February after the nurses strike) they really missed the other teams. Expected the other to follow shortly after but they haven’t. When meeting people in the corridor in St Marys there might not be eye contact and they aren’t used to that coming from St Mary’s. Now they are smiling and saying hello. They are integrating into the new building. When people finally come up from Grattan Street it might be easier for them now that Eileen’s team has managed the transition. |
1.01.40 - 1.07.10
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Everyone loves Grattan Street Some people wanted to leave but only for parking. Grattan Street reversing out and cars double parked on both sides. Saw a lorry bringing in windows for a school extension. People in the school sometimes try to take their spaces. The lorry reversed in- surprised how good a driver he was. Teams close together in Grattan Street but separated now in St Mary’s. Podiatry will come up. Home Support Service is in St Marys. PHN have rooms for clients downstairs. While everyone is in St Mary’s they are separate. They are beginning to get used to all the space. Thinks it’s more productive in St Marys. Sector 4- City Northwest touches on the Mardyke and Western Road a bit but most of it is on the Northside. It made no sense for staff to be based in town and come up to the Northside and then back down. Grattan Street Health Centre is part of Mayfield Sector 3- City North East. So really they were in temporarily lodgings there. In St Mary’s can respond to thinks more quickly, nurses can do their calls more easily. Can’t think of negative things, maybe the room with 20 of the nurses instead of 2 to 5 people. But people are getting used to it. Some health centres have a mix of disciplines but in St Mary’s it’s all nursing which Eileen prefers. Canteen in Grattan Street was homely and functional. But in St Mary’s it’s clinical, not big and equipment is ok but it’s very loud. Eileen goes there when it’s quiet and looks out the window at the trees which has a preservation order on them. |
1.07.10 - 1.11.08
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Interaction with Surrounding Grattan Street Community Fraught interaction with the surrounding area in Grattan Street to do with the car park. There’s 6 parking spaces for anyone. And the ones at the back wall and the other side area for HSE. There might not be enough space for residents. And HSE staff would try to get in early enough for a space. They had a good relationship with the school [Education Together] until they started taking the HSE parking spaces. Sean had a good relationship with the school and the locals because he would have more dealings with them. Only the back door of people’s houses were connected with the car park their front doors faced elsewhere. There was a hall. And the area in which Grattan Street is located isn’t covered by the PHN area that Eileen was in, it was covered by Mayfield. So Eileen feels they were a bit disconnected from the Marsh. Not much interaction with shops. Raised blood pressure due to the car parking and arguments and they nearly shot each other over it! Eileen told someone that they couldn’t park there because they weren’t working there and she was shocked at the angry verbal abuse she got after it. Sometimes arguments would start badly but in the end they would be smiling and wondering what all the fuss was about. |
1.11.08 - 1.14.18
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Describe Grattan Street A happy place to work. Liked the building and its peculiarities, its rattling windows. Arguing to get a new window where the bottom part was falling out and tin foil was blocking the gap. In her room the wind was coming in and the window wasn’t replaced. Bars on the window. And obscure glass so you could only see out when you open the top. Thought that the two stairs going to the 2nd floor in Grattan Street was cool when she was there first and the gallery all around and the open space it created. An old quaint building being pushed into something it was never meant to house. Glad to hear that there is talk of people going in there. The gallery made things different. And you could see if someone was waiting for you and have a bit of craic. An opportunistic up and down conversation. Not as easy to catch people in St Mary’s. “We will always have happy memories of Grattan Street. Always. And I’m sure it will become even more embellished with time.” |
1.14.18 - 1.18.30 |
Why do people like Grattan Street? Eileen thinks it’s partly because of the people working there. The building lends itself to that. They got something good from the building. When you entered the building there were no lights on you had to go to the reception area to turn them on. One morning she heard something flush when she went in. She locked herself in her office. And called Sean (Higgisson the porter) who said the toilet just flushed itself- another peculiarity. Sometimes people were difficult in Grattan Street and Sean was calm and dealt with it. Being near town gave you lots of options for places to go which isn’t the case in St Marys. Someone could come in shouting and verbally abusive and demanding to see someone. Someone collapsed once and Sean had to get him to the Mercy Hospital in wheelchair. Try to diffuse the difficult person- Sean would be good at that and might get someone else to assist. Sean gives a relaxed attitude and talks to people. He would keep it from escalating. Eileen thinks she might not be so calm! |
1.18.30 - 1.20.02
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Varying Views of Grattan Street Medical Centre Other people who came to Grattan Street may see it as shabby, or somewhere they didn’t get what they wanted. Or there was no proper queue or waiting too long for something. They might have had trouble parking. Another person might think it’s convenient in the city centre and an interesting unusual space. “But they won’t ever see it the way we saw it. We felt we owned it. Or it owned us, you know that kind of way. Sometimes it just felt like something wrapped around you.” Felt good there. “Everyone loves Grattan Street. Put that on my epitaph.” |
1.20.02 - 1.21.00
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Definition of Patients and Clients Call people clients when working with them in the community. Patients in the hospital. Clients because they have some need but it is not always an illness. It’s always been like that in the community setting. |
1.21.00 - 1.23.15
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Anything you would change about Grattan Street besides the carpark? Could have been painted. Paint the door. Make it more attractive people to get a better sense of the place before entering. Improve the exterior to make people aware they were going someplace nice. The building needs it. Down and outs sleep out the back of it so there is lots of rubbish out there. Some clear glass in the office and take away the bars. Improve the canteen a bit. St Marys is fresh, new and practical. Grattan Street not much can be done with it. |
1.23.15 - 1.24.28
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Unexpected Responsibilities and Workload Eileen didn’t expect when she started out to be working so hard and carrying so many responsibilities at the age she is now. There was no reflection on where you were going at the time she started. She always wanted to work in community not hospital. |
1.24.28 - 1.26.15
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Future of Grattan Street Would like to see it occupied and whoever was in there was happy in there and the building was looked after. Nearly better to close off the car park. Eileen thinks it can never be sold off. And she would like services to be in there because it is an ideal central location. H111 European Health Insurance Card is done in Grattan Street. There’s a box shaped reception which was thrown up and is not in keeping with the building she would like to see that changed. Plaster on the walls. Holes in the ceiling. |
1.26.15 - 1.29.13
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Vaccines, School Nurse, Grattan Street Ghost. Vaccines- had to mind the fridges when she was a schools nurse. School nurses had to deal with AMO Area Medical Officer now called Community Medical Doctors. The room the fridges were in had no air-conditioning or coolant and sometimes the temperature would get too high. As a school nurse she would have to take the vaccines in and out and maintain the cold chain in the transfer of the vaccines. In St Mary’s there will be a cold room for those fridges. Never saw the ghost. And she had plenty of time to appear when she was there alone in the morning. Grattan Street was special. Met people with different problems. Outro. Interview ends. |
Describes her grandmother who ran a shop on Churchfield Green. Her grandmother was a confidante to many locals. Her grandmother eventually moved into their family home, where Aoife describes how she cooked tripe and drisheen. Aoife also speaks about a typical Christmas day with her family and neighbours visiting.
Recalls her school days and subsequent courses and jobs before her clerical officer role in Grattan Street, taking over her sister’s role.
Remembers her first experiences of Grattan Street as a child patient wanting to get glasses. Is reluctant to leave Grattan Street as she has so many memories there.
Explains her work in administration for the schools vaccination programme. Mentions rare cases of vaccine hesitancy or refusal.
Describes the quirky character of the Grattan Street Medical Centre building and as a happy place to work despite its defects. It’s location in the centre of the city is also beneficial.
Aoife talks about her role organising social events for the medical centre staff- Christmas parties and leaving parties. Hope to maintain these traditions when the staff move to St Mary’s Health Campus Gurranabraher.
Recalls stories from Grattan Street including wasps, pigeons, floods, characters and the boiler.
]]>Aoife describes growing up on the Northside near Cathedral Road and playing games with her friends.
Describes her grandmother who ran a shop on Churchfield Green. Her grandmother was a confidante to many locals. Her grandmother eventually moved into their family home, where Aoife describes how she cooked tripe and drisheen. Aoife also speaks about a typical Christmas day with her family and neighbours visiting.
Recalls her school days and subsequent courses and jobs before her clerical officer role in Grattan Street, taking over her sister’s role.
Remembers her first experiences of Grattan Street as a child patient wanting to get glasses. Is reluctant to leave Grattan Street as she has so many memories there.
Explains her work in administration for the schools vaccination programme. Mentions rare cases of vaccine hesitancy or refusal.
Describes the quirky character of the Grattan Street Medical Centre building and as a happy place to work despite its defects. It’s location in the centre of the city is also beneficial.
Aoife talks about her role organising social events for the medical centre staff- Christmas parties and leaving parties. Hope to maintain these traditions when the staff move to St Mary’s Health Campus Gurranabraher.
Recalls stories from Grattan Street including wasps, pigeons, floods, characters and the boiler.
0.00.00 - 0.00.52
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Role in Grattan Street Medical Centre Clerical Officer in Grattan Street Medical Centre for 18/19 years. From Cathedral Road originally. Only Northsider working in Grattan Street Medical Centre! |
0.00.52 - 0.02.44
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Background, Childhood and Games Grew up in cul-de-sac terrace called School Avenue. Primary school: St Vincent’s. Games: “piggy”, skipping ropes. Convinced her friends that there were fairies in trees by her house. Took over older sister Sinead’s job in Grattan Street Medical Centre. They played together with Sinead as the teacher and Aoife as the student in their grandmother’s room using chalk which got on grandmother’s clothes and she never knew when it came from. Started school with boys & girls she was friends with and still friends with many of them today. |
0.02.44 - 0.03.37
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Childhood Games: Piggy Describes the game how it’s made and its rules (also known as hopscotch or pickey) chalk on the road and use a shoe polish tin. Very popular where Aoife was from. |
0.03.37 - 0.05.06 |
Grand Mother’s shop on Churchfield Green. Grandmother’s surname was Stephens and people who know Aoife from the shop know her as Aoife Stephens. Had friends up near the shop. Shop closed 20 years ago. Her dad drove her and siblings from school to the shop after school. Her mom worked up there. Aoife and her friend Paula went to the “Pound Shop” or collected old wool from people’s houses to make ponytails in imitation of Like “Rainbow Brite Dolls”. |
0.05.06 - 0.07.37
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Grandmother’s Shop- description, shopping notes, fun Shop was hub of activity. Customers sent up notes with the items they wanted. Children played hiding in fridges. “Light-fingered”- as children they took things from the shop. It was a grocery shop selling: milk, bread, cold meats, sweets, cigarettes. Recalls a funny incident when her cousin Leonard got a note which had “S. Towels” meaning sanitary towels but he asked his dad “what are stowels?” |
0.07.37 - 0.13.23
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Grandmother: Description, her Funeral, Summer Holidays with her, Christmas Day, Caring for others, Cooking Tripe and Drisheen Aoife thought her grandmother wasn’t patient because she had a quick tongue. Now looking back she thinks she was very patient. Aoife’s sister went to live with their grandmother when granddad died. Used to stay in caravans down in Youghal. Eventually they rented a house from a woman called Maureen. About 13 children stayed there in Youghal with grandmother for the summer. Grandmother doted on all of them. At her funeral people had very fond memories of her. She was an agony aunt and confidante. A neighbour could chat in the shop for 3 hours with her. Family always went to grandmother’s house for Christmas Day. When grandmother sold the house she came to live with Aoife’s family and the rest of the family came to them for Christmas. She cooked tripe and drisheen for Aoife’s dad who worked nights in Irish Steel. Grandmother loved feeding people. Steak and gravy could be cooked in the morning so Aoife’s mom only had to heat it up. “The smell alone would turn me off” the tripe and drisheen. “Fairly gruesome now to be honest”. “she knew by my face not to even ask” if Aoife wanted to taste any. |
0.13.23 - 0.14.55
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Christmas Day Start 10am. Aoife’s parents & her 3 sisters. Uncle Jim now deceased. Aunt Geraldine. Grandmother had 2 girls and 2 boys. Neighbours would call in. Everyone in a small kitchen. It was the hub of the family. Fighting over toys and batteries. |
0.14.55 - 0.16.53
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School Enjoyed it. As admin for the vaccinations department in Grattan Street Medical Centre she has goes back to St Vincent’s twice a year for vaccines: HPV (human papillomavirus), Men C (meningitis C) and Tdap (tetanus and low dose diphtheria and low dose pertussis (whooping cough) booster). School still looks and smells the same. Saw her picture on the wall sitting next to two girls who she is still best friends with now. Liked the subjects Art, French and Business Organisation (“Biz Org”). |
0.16.53 - 0.20.11
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After School: Courses and Jobs Did a secretarial course in Terence MacSwiney Community College and a City and Guilds Course. Work experience in solicitor’s office in Washington Street doing dictation and typing but felt a little bit like it was over her head. Worked in Dovertron Electronics in Dublin Hill which had the contract for the Sky Box where she worked for 6 months. Worked in Bourns Electronics: 8 months soldering. Saturday job in a butchers in North Main Street- she hated smell of meat lasted 3 Saturdays! Handed in CV to line manager and staff officers in HSE. Offered job 2 weeks after the interview. Feels like Grattan Street Medical Centre won’t let her go. Feels like part of the furniture. The secretarial skills course she took included: computer skills, typing, floppy disks, word processing, dictation, typing, telephone manner, |
0.20.11 - 0.22.31
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Recalls Grattan Street when visiting her sister before working there Aoife used to call into Grattan Street Medical Centre to visit her sister who worked there. She attended Michael O’Sullivan in the eye clinic when she was in school. She was familiar with the building. It is strange to be working in the building where she had been as a patient. There was a school nurse who she was afraid of and Aoife became her secretary. Smoking: Canteen was halved at the time and smokers were on one side of it. People could smoke in their offices. She stepped into her sister’s job. She felt very welcomed. Aoife says that she doesn’t take direction very well, she prefers to do things her way. Her sister was very particular. |
0.22.31 - 0.25.00
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Memories as a Patient- and pretending to need glasses! Dark room, waiting to be called. As a child she was desperate to get glasses and braces. She used take silver foil from cigarette packets to put around teeth to imitate braces. She wore her grandfather’s glasses which had thick lenses “like jam jars” in the hope that she herself would need to wear glasses. She told Dr (Michael) O’Sullivan that she couldn’t see much of the (eye-test) board. Later on, after a year or two working in Grattan Street Medical Centre, she discovered that she did need glasses. |
0.25.00 - 0.26.23
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Difficult to leave Grattan Street Medical Centre Sister loved Grattan Street Medical Centre and was heartbroken to leave. Aoife has been in her office since March 2001. In facy she has been there longer than she has been in her own home. “My whole life story is been in the walls”. Leaving Grattan Street Medical Centre is tough for her and some of the others working there. |
0.26.23 - 0.32.57
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Description of Role and duties Every child in junior infants is offered a vision check MMR, booster vaccination and senior infant child is offered hearing check. Aoife and Síle (Sheila?) in Grattan Street Medical Centre cover the North Lee area from Macroom to Youghal, not the city, Glounthaune, Carrigtwohill, Cobh, Midleton area. Aoife works from the city to east Cork, there’s a very big workload so she must be organised. It’s a very rewarding job. It requires building a rapport with primary schools and secretaries. As part of her work she needs to: send out forms to 58 primary schools and get packs ready for the schools and all the students and get the forms back by courier. The form have to be sorted based on the vaccination date schedule and people removed from the list if they refuse the vaccine. They also check that children weren’t vaccinated before eg. a “repeat student” (a student repeating a class or year) or maybe the student has lived in another country where they were vaccinated so that must be followed up. They are almost busier in the summer months because the details of every child that has been vaccinated must be inputted into the system. Aoife gets called a lot because she has been in Grattan Street Health Centre for so long that she has many answers to questions, for instance she buys all of the stationery for the building. The computer system has changed in the last few years, it’s now a national system. Previously there was one system for Cork and Kerry but a different one for Galway etc. The new system is more time consuming at present but will be easier in the long run. Cards on the database. Notes written on the cards which are kept as well. |
0.32.57 - 0.36.55
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Vaccinations in Secondary Schools Aoife goes to secondary schools providing administrative support as part of the vaccine programme. Visits a school twice: once for 1st dose of HPV and Men C and then 2nd dose of HPV and the Tdap. Boys aren’t given HPV at present but they will next year (2020) which will make things very busy. Either Aoife brings the forms or the AMO Area Medical Officer will. Sometimes the school secretary sends 4th years (fourth year /transition year students) to help them. Checks that the students have the right consent forms. Ensures that the students get back to class after waiting 15 minutes after the vaccination. First time the students have been at an appointment or vaccination without a parent. A bit of nerves from them. Tdap is Tetannus. Men C for meningitis. HPV the cervical cancer vaccine. Aoife says that nobody wants to get a vaccine but generally it’s fine. |
0.36.55 - 0.40.30
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Rare cases of people refusing vaccines and possible reasons why Not many people refuse the vaccinations. Some consent forms are confusing for people, especially if English is not their first languages. Aoife sees form where people sign to accept and refuse a vaccination so those have to be cleared up. When a child is vaccinated a parent has to be present. People refuse vaccines for personal reasons- don’t agree with them or have never taken them and won’t start now. Aoife mentions the controversy around the MMR but says that she cannot get involved as an admin. If she or a parent is unsure about something there is a doctor on call to answer any questions re vaccines. |
0.40.30 - 0.42.52
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The Building itself in Grattan Street Medical Centre Aoife thinks that the Grattan Street Medical Centre building has character, it is quirky. It is not clinical like you think a medical centre might be. “There’s probably music in the walls of this building”, “It’s a happy building”. The roof leaks, door hinges break, things crack and things break. She has shared the office with the same girl for a few years and they will be separated when they leave. They know when to talk to each other or leave each other alone. Pigeon poo has come down from the ceiling onto people. |
0.42.52 - 0.46.30
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Neighbourhood around Grattan Street Medical Centre So near town. On lunch can go to the bank. Few houses that live around them know them. Car park has been a source of hatred because so many use it and the school as well. No point in falling out with staff or neighbours over cars. A few people “fond of the drink” would come into the building there was never trouble there were always characters about the area. Could find people sleeping rough at the side of the building. Will miss the location. Know the people in the local shops and chemists with whom she’s built up relationships. Goes to the furniture shop on North Main Street, they ask when she’s leaving Grattan Street Medical Centre and she says “don’t mention the war! Just don’t talk about it because I can’t talk about it.” Feels it’s the end of an era and it’s sad. |
0.46.30 - 0.50.41
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Moving to St Mary’s Primary Care Centre Gurranbraher Aoife’s workplace is moving to the old orthopaedic hospital now the St Mary’s Primary Care Centre in Gurranabraher. She feels institutionalised being in Grattan Street Medical Centre so long. Aoife has organised social aspect of Grattan Street Medical Centre eg. the Christmas party and lunch parties for people leaving. She even once served lunch after she had made the orders. It’s like a family away from home. There’s about 50 staff but never there at the same time. GPs, mental health, public health nursing, dental will all be up in St Mary’s. Aoife wonders about how they will keep the soul of Grattan Street Medical Centre when they move. Some people are delighted to be moving to a new building. But for Aoife it’s the people that make it. Change is good even though it’s scary. Will ensure they still do nights out, lunches, Christmas events. Wants to keep something about Grattan Street Medical Centre as well. |
0.50.41 - 0.54.30
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Social Aspects of Grattan Street Medical Centre Tradition before Christmas breakup day bring some food to the canteen between 12:30-2:30 big lunch in canteen. A feast- people make the effort. Aoife puts Christmas music on an old CD player. Some people play instruments eg. Violin. Party night at the airport hotel, plays. You can’t please everyone- you’ll never get the date right or the venue right. Takes lots of patience and organisation to do the social events. Recommends that people pay for the meal beforehand and she gives the restaurant the money and then everyone pays for everything extra themselves. |
0.54.30 - 0.56.45
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Organising Social Events and responsibility for money People think when you work for HSE they may think you get subsidised nights out. Mindful that she’s handling other people’s money. Bad snow one Christmas and only 2 members of staff made it to the party in Oriel House Ballincollig. There was no refund and that may have affected the turnout the next years. |
0.56.45 - 0.59.20
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Stories from Grattan Street Wasps coming through the decorative vents in the ceiling one year. Leaks in the roof. Boiler broke down and Aoife spotted smoke on the way to work. Flooding prevented staff from getting to work in Grattan Street. Professor Drumm (Brendan Drumm) head of HSE was visiting and there was new cutlery arrived and lots of scones from Duggan’s cake shop around the corner. Aoife was giving the scones to people as they were leaving even Prof Drumm. |
0.59.20 - 1.04.00
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Assumptions about the HSE Aoife has a pensionable job and works hard for it. And HSE is in the news a lot, eg the cervical test issues. But Aoife can only account for the work she does. Elderly people would always ask her the same two questions; can you get me a medical card and can you get me glasses? Welfare officers used to be downstairs in Grattan Street Medical Centre there could be an array of different characters. Sometimes there would be uproar with someone trying to skip the queue for the welfare officer. Gone to look at the style in weddings in the registry office in the front of the building. First gay marriage in Cork in the registry office. Everyone gets on there’s never been a major falling out between staff. Nice, friendly place to work even though shabby. Taken phone calls from elderly people who are looking for a different department and Aoife goes out of her way to help them. |
1.04.00 - 1.06.39
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Crimes and Old Dispensary Doctor’s handbag was taken and the thief got disorientated ran into the clinic room not out front door and dropped his mobile phone. Someone covered Sean (the porter’s) duties and a laptop was stolen. Aoife’s car was broken into one day. People had a misconception that Grattan Street Medical Centre was the old dispensary that there was drugs there. Only thing they could get was head lice lotion, bandages. Says the building belonged to the Mormons [means Quakers] who gave it to HSE to help the poor of Cork. |
1.06.39 - 1.09.15
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Accidents: Windows and Filing Cabinet Window have been here for a while. Sign on her office window which said “brrrrrr” and that was the noise the window made when it was windy! The window came away from the fitting one day while opening it. Hit her head into an open filing cabinet after answering phone once. Went to the Mercy (hospital) with the cut which wasn’t able to be stitched. |
1.09.15 - 1.11.13
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Cars Aoife was youngest in Grattan Street Medical Centre for a long time. “The baby of Grattan Street”. Aoife has a thing for cars. Could go out at lunchtime and could come back with a new car. Went to move her car and someone told her to call her parent to move it because she looked so young. |
1.11.13 - 1.12.00
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Ghost of Grattan Street Medical Centre Someone had a meeting and something fell and Sean the porter told them it was the ghost. Aoife says the “Ghost is actually real” heartbroken and traumatised by having to leave. |
1.12.00 - 1.12.58
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Different Dynamics in new Primary Care Centre Dynamics will be different in St Mary’s: won’t all be meeting in the canteen or chatting |
1.12.58 - 1.13.42
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Changes to job in new Primary Care Centre Currently all files and printer are in her office but in St Mary’s those are all centralised. Expects teething problems. |
1.13.42 - 1.16.32
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Grattan Street can’t let go of Aoife Would still take the job if she had the time over. Even though Aoife has tried to leave her job a few times something has always happened so that she ended up staying eg. an application form she sent off was blank, once there was a mix up with a panel, another time the job she went for changed from HSE to social work, she lost 6 family members in 6 or 7 years. Always had someone to turn to, support, friendly ear and chat in Grattan Street Medical Centre. “Burning the place down so no one can have it!” |
1.16.32 - 01.18.40
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Hopes for future of Grattan Street Medical Centre Disability services, child adolescent mental health, eating disorder clinic. Hate to see it turned into apartments. Lovely community- it should be kept. Food after Christmas parties is brought up to Edel House and food brought to Penny Dinners as well. Lots of vulnerable people in the area and lots of elderly people. Hopes podiatry can keep a room for foot care for the elderly with diabetes etc. prefer to see it remain as something that’s giving to the community. |
1.18.40 - 1.19.01
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Reflections on Grattan Street as Workplace Quirky characters. Fun place to work. |
1.19.01 - 1.19.50
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Fairies Aoife imagined fairies in the trees at her childhood home. Says she has a great imagination. She perhaps took the idea from The “Secret Garden”, she also loved “The Never Ending Story”. |
1.19.50 - 1.20.01
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Outro Interview Ends |
Mentions her brother’s physical and mental disability.
Discusses how the smell of tripe and drisheen reminds of father who died when she was young
Recounts her surprise and confusion as a child learning that her mother had remarried and her new husband was to live in the family home.
Outlines the routine on farm including looking after the cows, feeding hens, making bread, and how their dinner changed with seasonal availability of produce.
Talks about her commute to school on a bicycle with sister and standing up to boys who hassled them. Learned some subjects through Irish. Recalls her sister disliking being singled out by teacher because of her attractive eyes and hair.
Remembers seeing a young JP McManus cycling.
Explains how she always considered becoming a nurse. Discusses training and hospital experiences including with nuns. Believes that nurses who had worked abroad had a broader perspective on life.
Outlines the role of the Public Health Nurse which required entering patients’ houses and assisting them with births and deaths. Other features included the need to be able to read emotions and build trust with others and managing your work largely independently.
Describes some memorable cases as a PHN. A family singing Boney M to a baby with a severely lif-limiting condition. Waiting for an ambulance for a man struggling to breathe who lived without electricity. Trying to find help for an older woman struggling with dementia who was being passed from one agency to another without resolution. Fumigating a woman’s accommodation to rid it of fleas, the poor living conditions she found there and the ambivalent reaction of the woman to this health intervention.
Discusses vaccines, their role in eliminating polio and the varying attitudes to vaccination.
Recounts the story of social welfare officers in Grattan Street providing a bed to a woman who promptly sold it on the Coal Quay.
Reflects on the mutually beneficial mix of medical disciplines in Grattan Street and the positive relations between the staff.
Outlines the problems, changes and tensions relating to the car parking situation for Grattan Street staff and others in the surrounding community.
Talks about a child welfare issue where she had to attend court as a PHN.
Speaks of the deficiencies of the Grattan Street building including plaster falling off walls, the waste of paperwork, dry rot, bars on windows and a very out-of-date photocopier. Suggests future uses for the building.
Tells the story of the 2010 floods when the vaccines had to transferred with difficulty to St Finbarr’s Hospital for safety.
Discusses the desirable feature of the new building in Gurranbraher including it having a central meeting area and parking as well as being of a manageable size, accessible and approachable.
Reflects on how she found her career of helping others rewarding.
]]>‘Mary’ grew up on a farm in county Limerick, part of which was rented to a mental hospital to be worked by patients. By interacting with these patients she quickly learned who you could trust and who you couldn’t.
Mentions her brother’s physical and mental disability.
Discusses how the smell of tripe and drisheen reminds of father who died when she was young
Recounts her surprise and confusion as a child learning that her mother had remarried and her new husband was to live in the family home.
Outlines the routine on farm including looking after the cows, feeding hens, making bread, and how their dinner changed with seasonal availability of produce.
Talks about her commute to school on a bicycle with sister and standing up to boys who hassled them. Learned some subjects through Irish. Recalls her sister disliking being singled out by teacher because of her attractive eyes and hair.
Remembers seeing a young JP McManus cycling.
Explains how she always considered becoming a nurse. Discusses training and hospital experiences including with nuns. Believes that nurses who had worked abroad had a broader perspective on life.
Outlines the role of the Public Health Nurse which required entering patients’ houses and assisting them with births and deaths. Other features included the need to be able to read emotions and build trust with others and managing your work largely independently.
Describes some memorable cases as a PHN. A family singing Boney M to a baby with a severely lif-limiting condition. Waiting for an ambulance for a man struggling to breathe who lived without electricity. Trying to find help for an older woman struggling with dementia who was being passed from one agency to another without resolution. Fumigating a woman’s accommodation to rid it of fleas, the poor living conditions she found there and the ambivalent reaction of the woman to this health intervention.
Discusses vaccines, their role in eliminating polio and the varying attitudes to vaccination.
Recounts the story of social welfare officers in Grattan Street providing a bed to a woman who promptly sold it on the Coal Quay.
Reflects on the mutually beneficial mix of medical disciplines in Grattan Street and the positive relations between the staff.
Outlines the problems, changes and tensions relating to the car parking situation for Grattan Street staff and others in the surrounding community.
Talks about a child welfare issue where she had to attend court as a PHN.
Speaks of the deficiencies of the Grattan Street building including plaster falling off walls, the waste of paperwork, dry rot, bars on windows and a very out-of-date photocopier. Suggests future uses for the building.
Tells the story of the 2010 floods when the vaccines had to transferred with difficulty to St Finbarr’s Hospital for safety.
Discusses the desirable feature of the new building in Gurranbraher including it having a central meeting area and parking as well as being of a manageable size, accessible and approachable.
Reflects on how she found her career of helping others rewarding.
0.00.00 - 0.00.25 |
Intro |
0.00.25 - 0.02.29 |
Background Grew up in County Limerick. Dad died when young. Early memory as 3 year old feeding a calf. Trained in St Johns Limerick, midwifery in Glasgow, 1975 went to Australia- Melbourne, Sidney, Brisbane. Returned after a year. Worked in Orthopaedic hospital in Croom, Limerick. Came to Cork, worked in Sarsfield’s Court [Glanmire] in the chest unit. Met a man which is why she stayed in Cork. Nursing involved night-duty and weekends, and "Mary" was thinking forward and did the Public Health Course to become PHN Public Health Nurse- first assignment was Middle Parish based in Grattan Street. |
0.02.29 - 0.05.26 |
Early Memories: Father’s Death, Family Women with tea and USA biscuits. Seeing lines of men in the hay barn and animals coming out- must have been auction of the animals. One older brother mentally & physically handicapped, 2 younger sisters. Mental Hospital St Joseph’s in Limerick rented land from their farm so there was an income coming in without the mother taking sole responsibility for running the farm. It was therapy for the patients working on the farm despite being out in all weather. "Mary" thinks that many of the male patients were there as a result of the war. One man was called Sergeant. "Mary's" family also got fresh vegetables from them. Learning process for them, learned who they could trust and who not- “heightened our awareness of mankind”. Some people were fit and healthy and others had mental issues. |
0.05.26 - 0.09.30 |
Memory of Smell of Tripe Cooking reminds of dad When in St Johns in 2nd year of training ages 19 or 20- she had a memory of a taste and smell. Walking on corridor in 1st floor she got the smell. Found her way to room 8 and a priest was having tripe and drisheen or tripe and packet as it’s called in Limerick. You could get the smell passing Shaws abattoir on the way into Limerick City. They had a hooter which would sound at 1pm and 5pm or 6pm in the evening which could be heard by "Mary" at home. Says that tripe is the lining of a sheep’s stomach. “Villi”- nooks and crannies. Still buys it in the English Market on the left hand-side when you enter from the Grand Parade- and there was someone in front of her in the queue so she wasn’t the only one buying it! Advises opening a window to let the small out! |
0.09.30 - 0.10.35 |
Typical Day on the Farm when Growing up- making bread They had a cow on the farm. Woman called May who helped out their mother on the farm. They would put on their “busy coat” or “duds” to milk cow, bring in milk, make brown soda bread. Remembers mother making bread around 10am in an earthenware crock with sour milk in it which went into the Aga oven. |
0.10.35 - 0.13.05 |
Learning about her Mother Remarrying Tom worked with the mental hospital and he would call in and there was a china cup for him. "Mary" asked her mother whether Tom slept in the house now, and previously asked May where her mother was and was told she was on holidays. Subsequently she realised that her mother had married Tom and they had been on honeymoon. Reflects on how little information she was given about this change in situation and how it applies in her nursing role and thinks that sometimes less information is better when dealing with young children who may not fully understand everything. |
0.13.05- 0.16.00 |
Typical Day on the Farm when Growing up In winter deal with the cow: hay, water, and muck out. Cow let out in the field in spring and summer. Dinner would be any time after the cake was made- ready about 12:30. Dinner usually bacon, cabbage, carrots, parsnips. As season moved on more turnips and potatoes. Seasonal. Started with Ker Pinks then Golden Wonders, didn’t like soapy Aran Banners. Then apple or rhubarb tarts. Supper at 5pm or 6pm: beans, bananas, eggs. They had hens which had to be fed. Went to bed at 8pm or 9pm. In evening have to bring the cow back down and there might be 10 or 12 bullocks following you- nightmare that they would trample you to death? Mother and May made the food. When "Mary" was 7 or 8 years old May was let go as "Mary" was considered old enough to help out. |
0.16.00- 0.17.57 |
Interaction with the Patients of the Mental Hospital Looking out the window watching them. Sheep shearing and rolling of the wool. Taking off the “daggings” and rolling the wool into fleeces. Or bringing in the hay watching them piking and the change from horses to tractors. There was an archway into their yard and it became harder to get larger machines through the arch over time. Later on it became bales of hay rather than wines of hay (in Limerick) whereas in Cork they would call it trams. |
0.17.57 - 0.19.17 |
Animals, Games and Mushrooms They prepared the animals with special soaps for the Limerick Show in August [Limerick Agricultural Show Society]. As children they would sit on the walls in the cow house (cowhouse) and use the chains as stirrups and pretend to be riding horses. Picked mushrooms in fields often along the path the cows had made where you’d find mushrooms. |
0.19.17- 0.21.36
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Going to School and Standing up for Yourself Walk across the fields to get to the road to school which was 2 miles away, wear wellies if raining. When older cycled to school. Had the younger sister in the carrier. Fell off the bike coming down Ryan’s Hill and the sister fell into the bushes and the nettles. Mother gave out to them for falling off the bike. In 6th class coming up the hill on was home from school at cousin Mick Clancy’s hill boys thought it was fun to hold on to the carrier to hold them back. "Mary's" mother advised to throw a stone at the boys. The next time it happened she picked up a rock and the boys ran away. It was lesson for "Mary" for life to stand up for herself and that the threat was enough to work. |
0.21.36- 0.25.44
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School 5 years old when she started school, thinks it might have been around Easter time. Small two teacher school. Mrs McAvoy the principal of the school had taught her father, and was distantly related to "Mary". "Mary's" sister was put on the teacher’s desk to be admired because of her beautiful eyes and hair- which she disliked because she was being made to feel different. 6 pupils in her class in 5th class and they were given the choice to do History and Geography through English or Irish and they chose to do it through Irish. The teacher was from Dingle and from him they learned a “love and appreciation” for Irish. Had good spoken Irish in a secondary school in Limerick City. Her knowledge of Irish helped later on as a PHN when she was assigned an area which had a Gaeltacht in it. Most Gaeltacht schools were insistent that the PHNs did use Irish. "Mary" went to Secondary School in the Presentation in Sexton Street. |
0.25.44 - 0.27.57 |
Neighbour’s House and JP McManus on a Bike A little old lady, a spinster called Noni lived in road opposite them. She had old open fireplace with bellows, and thatched roof and two dogs. "Mary" had a step-brother and a step-sister. The step brother was quiet and calm in Noni’s house but he was cross and looking for attention when he was at home. A guy in secondary school used to cycle past in a red bike and "Mary" later discovered it was JP McManus [businessman and racehorse owner] and her younger sister knew him. |
0.27.57 - 0.29.49
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Starting in Nursing after School Always in the back of her mind to do nursing. Did leaving cert when 17 and did interview for nursing. Had started a commercial course. The Blue Nuns ran St. John’s Hospital and knew she was due to start in February. Millford House in Castletroy was run by Blue Nuns and they had a nursing home and "Mary" dropped the commercial course and worked there as a nurses aid. It was a good introduction and confidence building exercise for her. "Mary" thinks that for the nuns patient care was paramount and the written work less important but it is almost the reverse today. |
0.29.49 - 0.34.51
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Decision to do Nursing and Other Career Options Looking at magazines and what nursing involved. Career guidance consisted of blue leaflets. Through the commercial course "Mary" heard about the Junior X course to get into the civil service and the ESB jobs which she hadn’t been aware of through school. Travel was something that she considered and nursing catered for that. The nurses who had lived abroad were easier to work with they had a broader perspective on life and “didn’t sweat the small stuff”. When you started nursing you got to see the different fields and "Mary" liked theatre work and enjoyed the labour ward when she was doing midwifery. Matron had said to her that she should considered doing the tutoring course. Thinks this is because she was questioning what her tutor was reading out of textbooks. She applied for the tutoring course. But she while she had anatomy and biology for the leaving cert but not chemistry and physics. So she did leaving cert physics and chemistry that year but dropped the physics because she had also taken on introduction to psychology. But she had already gotten the Public Health so she chose that. |
0.34.51 - 0.43.07 |
Public Health Nurse: Role and Duties PHN you are on your own to some extent you can plan your day, assess the patient. Communicate with the patient GP and hospital. You were independent to a large extent. Had continuity you could see things improving or ‘disimproving’. House visits, vaccination clinics as part of a team, coffee or lunch in Grattan Street where you met other disciplines not just nursing. A mix. Could be rostered for a dressings clinic in Grattan Street. They might have been referred after discharge from the Mercy Hospital. Now the Mercy would have its own dressings clinic. Going to schools dealing with healthy children and teachers. Originally had an admin person with them but now just a doctor and nurse when going to vaccinate in schools. HPV vaccination a big team goes to try to get the first years done in one go. Health promotion going into houses and dealing with young mums. Private houses, corporation houses built in 1950s and 1960s, apartments or flats as they called them then. Leave a note for someone who you couldn’t find in a flat. Maybe a baby that wasn’t feeding very well. Hear that the mother has moved house and start detective work to track her down asking neighbours. And the nurse in their new area would be informed. Write letters to council about the poor conditions of housing. And then neighbours would ask for letters then as well. |
0.43.07 - 0.51.42 |
Perspective & Expectations of Patients on Healthcare Most people were welcoming and giving you tea that you didn’t want. A few were trying to get the PHN to adapt too much to their own schedules. For patients the PHN came at the beginning of life and at the end of life. Would be asked “do you think it’s better today nurse?” and trying to read the emotions of the other family members. Understanding with the GP about what the family situation was. Some people would ask for everything they thought they could get other families would never ask for anything. PHN has to decide how necessary a request is or how much someone needs to be persuaded. Try to stay on side and be persistent. Older people at the time had the idea that you only left a hospital in a box. So it could be hard to persuade them to go to hospital. Fear of lack of independence as well. Reflect on how nursing training prepares PHN for these situations. "Tread wearily" and "feel the vibes" when entering a new patient environment. Privilege to be with people in their time of need because you felt that you were doing something and you were a support to the family especially in the time before morphine pumps. Even saying “I don’t think anything is going to happen tonight” might be the simple reassurance that the family wants. Fear with a bedbound patient is that they would get pressure sores. One of the ways to avoid this is to change their position. And there was some education involved in ensuring whoever was moving the patient when the PHN isn’t there was doing it correctly. Extended family would assist with a patient in a way less common today. |
0.51.42 - 0.55.45
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Memories of mothers and their babies and music Remembers a family who lived in one of the lanes off North Main Street. “me mam” was what the family called the beautiful mother who had a lame leg, she had grey-blond hair. One of the daughters had a baby that had a life-limited condition. The whole family were supporting them. They were always well made-up and the sick baby was in the middle. The baby didn’t survive only lived for 8 or 9 months. The family used to sing “Brown Girl in the Ring” by Boney M and the baby used to recognise it and respond. Sleet and rain coming up North Main Street. Pound shop maybe called Powers Jim Reeves and Bing Crosby singing White Christmas which lifted her heart. Streets were full at Christmastime. |
0.55.45 - 1.01.36
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Patients and Cases and conditions in the Grattan Street/ Middle Parish Area Remembers rickety stairs leading to flats above shops which you wouldn’t realise were there. Old man lived in laneway off Grattan Street in a tenement house like those in Glasgow she had seen near York Hill, with red sandstone buildings. Went to this man on a quick “social visit” and he had rasping breath. Just “kippins” or laths on the fire. No electricity. Waiting two hours for ambulance to come. Man didn’t survive. Something else in place of the building now. There may not have been a door on the house you could just walk straight in. |
0.55.45 - 0.58.18 |
Patients and Cases and conditions in the Grattan Street/ Middle Parish Area- difficulties of nursing and dealing with different agencies. Woman with dementia in 1970s one room flat in warm house. Bathroom outside. Wasn’t able to look after herself. Had the newspapers stored on top of the electric cooker. GP trying to get her somewhere. Woman would lock herself out. Half naked walking across Sheare’s Street. "Mary" put her in own car and brought her to Our Lady’s Hospital to be seen by psychiatrist. They wouldn’t take her because of her age. Arranged geriatrician appointment who wouldn’t take her because she was psychiatric. A “street woman” (homeless woman) moved in with her and was able to make sure the house wouldn’t be set on fire. Meals on Wheels or Penny Dinners sharing the one meal. "Mary's" frustration with the bureaucracy. |
0.58.18 - 1.05.20 |
Woman with Flea Bites/ Flea Marks "Mary" being polite said told her it was a rash but the woman had no qualms about calling them fleabites. "Mary" got temporary eviction order to clean out her flat. Process was traumatic for "Mary" & the woman. Woman spent her time in St Francis Church while her flat was being cleaned. The woman had collected things from bins and stored them in her house in case she might use them and they removed 57 bags of rubbish. Found a beautiful photograph album. Mounds of rubbish as high as the bed. Bucket to empty into the toilet. Candles in danger of burning the house down. The woman was upset that her stuff had been taken but they had put her things in storage in case she wanted them. As PHN you can wear your own clothes but "Mary"wore white uniform in case of infestation in the flat. Man from environmental health section sprayed the flat. "Mary" counted 57 dead fleas on her uniform when she took it off in the bath when she got home. Later with her boyfriend at the time the same woman shouted “Hello nurse!” at her. |
1.05.20 - 1.18.38
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Vaccines, Vaccination and the anti-vaccination People were pro vaccinate after 1956 polio outbreak in Cork. Many people would have been familiar with Polio, its devastating affect and that you can be vaccinated against it. People had to come to the clinic 3 or 4 times with a baby which might be difficult for families with many children and buggies. Remembers vulnerable family in Knocknaheeney. The mother was poor with keeping appointments and she came in the pouring rain with 4 or 5 children. Cost of taxi was 11 pounds or euro even though she had to live on social welfare. The staff suggested that she could get a bus. But she pointed out that one of her children was ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) and that he would be climbing on the bus stop. "Mary" says the woman deserved a medal and reflects that they as staff had been judging her for her predicament. Crowds of people and buggies. Role of extended family in assisting with child rearing. Some children may be difficult to deal with. Obstacles to families getting children vaccinated. Vaccination card files. Brought from City Hall to the place of vaccination and not locked. Vaccines were taken from a fridge in City Hall and brought in a biscuit tin along with adrenaline in case someone had a reaction. Compares this to the modern method of cold-chain. After Professor Wakefield made an association between MMR vaccine and autism the vaccination uptake reduced and it’s been an uphill battle since to reverse it. In 1970s and 1980s there was memory of measles, mumps, meningitis and polio. "Mary" worked in a school where a child refused vaccinations in junior infants in the early 1980s. That child got measles, encephalitis and was in a wheelchair by 1st class and by age 8 or 9 she was dead. HCA (Handicapped Childrens Allowance) allowance handicapped children’s allowance financial support for the extra care that was needed for the child. Thinks of the scaremongering about vaccines and the consciences of those people if they knew what the result of not getting vaccinated was. That incident happened in the early 1980s. Worked with a doctor who had difficulty walking after he had got polio in the 1950s. Young mothers in 1970s and 1980s had mothers who influenced them based on their accounts in the diseases in 1950s. Rural approach to vaccines: if you eat healthy and are healthy then you won’t contract the disease. "Mary" says that while a weaker person succumbs to a disease faster it’s not a protection against a disease. Rural culture which still exists of “I don’t believe in vaccines”. HPV vaccines. With all vaccines certain percentage of risk even though it is very rare. Weigh up the advantages versus the risk of something happening. Vaccine cold chain from manufacturer to the administering to the child is much more streamlined. Incidence of polio came down so vaccines were effective. |
1.18.38 - 1.21.46
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Earliest Memories of Grattan Street Waiting room now it’s opened up with pillars and a balcony. When "Mary" started it had a ceiling and so was enclosed and it had a wooden floor where you could hear the “clip clop” of people walking across it echoing. They didn’t have access to the upstairs with stores and pigeons. According to Anne [a friend who worked there] there were stores of the things leftover from when Grattan Street was used as a dispensary/pharmacy/chemist. Old fashioned metal chairs with a timber seat. Queue in the mornings for the dressing, older people with big swollen legs. Mr Hart and Mr Condon were the social welfare officers and they would have clinics which had crowds of people waiting for them. People would receive bed linen or washing machines. Mr Hart advised "Mary" once that when he started out he was given a sob story and he got someone a number of beds and later he saw them being sold on the Coal Quay! Smoking was allowed at the time so there was the smell and fog of smoke. |
1.21.46 - 1.23.14
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Repairs and Revamp/ Refurbishment of Grattan Street Transferred to the City Hall while there was revamping or refurbishing of Grattan Street. Once they returned one of the admin staff noticed that a there was some dry rot on part of the wood in the jam of the door and more repairs had to be done. Beautiful once the repairs were done. Opened up the ceiling with the balcony. The big tea room could be used for meetings and there was a fridge and kettle- luxury! |
1.23.14 - 1.27.35 |
Grattan Street as a Workplace “You could never call it glamorous!”. Bars on the windows. Hose reel for the fire. For fire drills the bars on some windows could be opened. The people to work with were fabulous. Dave in podiatry said ‘the building was crap but the people were lovely’. Building was fine, serviceable. "Mary" had a sense of history of the building and that it was privilege to work in it. Beautiful cut limestone blocks. Appreciated that and the big windows. Anne set off the alarm once when she went out the back door. There was once a mix up with the keys. The cleaners would lock up and throw the keys in the letter box and someone else would open up in the morning with another set of keys. But somehow both sets of keys were in the letter box. "Mary" climbed in through a window that was opened and was able to open the door from the inside! Sean the porter would remember this story and Pam from the eye clinic would remember it as well. |
1.27.35 - 1.30.11
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Description of Grattan Street Historic, homely, old grandeur, comfortable but uncomfortable, people are willing to work and find solutions. Nice building at one level but primitive at another level. Staff were always lovely and gelled. Started with 3 disciplines and that expanded. People were caring and good sense of comradery, work spirit and work ethic. Old photocopier that was there for 20-30 years which was always breaking down. They used to repair it themselves. When they asked for a new one they were told “it’s not pride is making ye ask for a new one!” |
1.30.11 - 1.31.23
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The Effect of the Mix of Disciplines Levelling effect. Nobody thought they were above anyone. Meet people from other disciples who could make exceptions or give advice- could tic-tac with one another. It was very personal. You weren’t going into someone else’s territory through some doors. They all met in the tea rom. |
1.31.23 - 1.33.08
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Car Park No car parking when "Mary" began. Staff and outsiders could park there. There was some kind of grandfather clause which allowed non-staff to park there. There used to be agro between the staff about it until they realised they were all in the same boat. Then the Educate Together School opened up and they were trying to park their cars there too. It’s hassle. Manic at times. Compares it to Mr Bean. Residents had parking. |
1.33.08 - 1.35.46
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Child Welfare Case Child welfare issue was brought in front of Judge Clifford. The mother had issues with alcohol and depression (those problems could affect children not getting vaccines as well). "Mary" remembers child or 4 or 5 years of age with bottle in their mouth and the bottle had whiskey in it. The fridge had one tomato in it. What should the staff wear to court- should they wear a hat? "Mary" was obliged to call to the house as a result of the case. And the child was eventually fostered. Wheelchairs and how tough it was for families and children growing up and needing bigger wheelchairs. Makes you think how lucky you are according to "Mary". |
1.35.46 - 1.37.39
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Curiosities and Quirks of Grattan Street Building Pigeons could be heard upstairs and the exterminator came. Plaster crumbling off the walls in Grattan Street. Paperwork and records. New letterheads and they were ordered to dump things while people downstairs were looking for things but there was money being wasted on paperwork being thrown out. |
1.37.39 - 1.41.50
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Floods 2010 and Transporting Vaccines Vaccines were stored in a special room with fridges wired directly to the mains, there was a fear the power would be lost. Water was at the door. Vaccines should be transferred to St Finbarr’s hospital. "Mary" and Sean the porter waited for a van to come to transport them. Eventually a fiesta arrived with 2 big men. They had 20-30 boxes like cool boxes. They made two trips in "Mary's" car to bring the vaccines across town through the floods. Describes herself as a determined person. Onetime borrowed waders from Meitheal Mara on Crosses Green and walked to Grattan Street in them. |
1.41.50 - 1.43.18
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Future of Grattan Street Building Historical connection with William Penn. Would like to see Grattan Street be a visitor centre or a place for weddings. Could have a little garden or courtyard. Current waiting room could be used. Catering could be provided there as well. |
1.43.18 - 1.46.50
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Hopes for St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre Hopes there is suitable parking. And tied up thinking from the planning department and developers. Encouraging people to go green and use bicycles etc. is fine but closing parking isn’t the place to start. There should be a place to make a cup of tea yourself. Good service for people who need it and people feel they can access it. Hope it isn’t too big, and there won’t be sections that you will never meet. A central meeting place is desirable where you could meet someone you don’t directly work with. |
1.46.50 - 1.48.40
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Making the Building Approachable Easy access. Does there need to be a service for mothers to get up the hill to the health centre? Will there be a place for children to play in? People should be given specific individual appointments not 20 appointments sent out for 2pm. Access to water like a watercooler. |
1.48.40 - 1.52.00
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Decision to Become a Nurse Would choose to be a nurse if she had the option over again. Has enjoyed life and had a good home life. Have had lots of opportunities. Could have become pigeonholed in one area. In one way "Mary" feels she has cut herself off from other aspects of nursing that she was interested in- clinical and theatre related work. Rewarding helping mothers and children with bed wetting issues. |
1.52.00- End |
Outro. Interview ends 1.52.13 |