PO’B: The Swan and Cygnet just around Patrick’s, where Black Tie
is now.
GO’D: Oh right. Okay. And was that there, when did that close down?
PO’B: I’m trying to think. Eh Jim Clancy sold it in 1987, ’88 and I was there until Jim sold it and it operated for a bit after that but they were trying to transfer the license out to Victoria Cross and they weren’t able to do it. And eventually the place just closed as a pub.
GO’D: Right. So what was the heyday like of it?
PO’B: Ah stop, well ‘twould have been back probably before I started working there when there was lots of Ford’s and all them were going but like even when I started there in 1981, I think and the place used be packed. I mean ‘twas a small pub, very small pub, you could go in from Patrick Street or go in from, sure everyone knows that you could go in from the Quay and a roundy bar then, roundy bar inside. The place was very small like, very small.
GO’D: Okay.
PO’B: But the money that they used be taking in there because you’d the buses, you’d the, you’d the, you’d the em, the statue was just across the road, you know the statue.
GO’D: Em, yeah [word unintelligible]
PO’B: And the buses used stop there like and so you have the busmen would be coming in. People coming into town, it’s the first stop when you get off, you go for a pint, you go into the Swan if you’re going up to the Northside at night, you get the bus outside the door, it’s the last place you go for a pint if you were heading out of town. Coming into town they all get off at the statue, Number two, whatever first place you go is across the road to the Swan. It was just a meeting place like. The place used be packed, packed but then when Dunlops closed and Fords closed and I don’t know things got quieter and it use not be as busy like.
GO’D: Yeah.
PO’B: When I started there before on, on a Saturday night, four on a Friday night, you might have three on a Sunday night, you could have four on a Sunday night but before the place closed you’d have two. ‘Twas gone like, ‘twas gone.
GO’D: So was the bulk of their trade from kind of lads coming home from work in factories?
PO’B: Oh Friday evening, you wouldn’t get in the door there.
GO’D: Right.
PO’B: You wouldn’t get in the door there from three, four o’clock on you wouldn’t get in the door. Just and ‘twas great, great pint there. There was a cellar there, it was the first cold room in Cork.
GO’D: Coal?
PO’B: Cold room.
GO’D: Oh, Cold room, oh right.
PO’B: It was the first cold room as far as I can remember now. It was the first cold room in Cork.
GO’D: And that was down in the cellar?
PO’B: ‘Twas barrels in through the bar sliding down the stairs into the cellar below, and then pulled through and you going up through the floor. The draw took the short straw. Pint was, beautiful pint there because of the cold room and because of the short drop.
GO’D: I get ye, and the [word unintelligible] obviously has a big effect on it.
PO’B: Huge well I mean when you’re going like pulling pints all day like and I mean the short drop so there was, you the pipes were always clean and you know, ‘twas ah stop the place was unreal.
GO’D: Must have been like you know what I mean.
PO’B: Ah stop. I could write a book on the place.
GO’D: [phrase unintelligible] You’ve enough material for a book. Is there any stories that you particular, any particular characters?
PO’B: Ah stop, sure Jesus, most of ‘em, most of them are dead now. [laughs]
GO’D: Ah sure ‘tis grand. You can tell away then like. You know what I mean.
PO’B: There was em. There was, ‘twas closed then from half two to half three, the holy hour, you don’t remember that like but, everyday the pub would close from half two to half three, delighted used be brilliant like because you go in, I used go in, in the morning sometimes ten o’clock open up, get the place ready. You start working all day ‘till half two, then you close down, the other shift come on, you clean up then, the other shift come on then at half three to half seven, and half seven they close.
GO’D: Would they close then fully up at half seven like?
PO’B: No, no ‘twould open again at half past three.
GO’D: Right.
PO’B: But closed for an hour.
GO’D: Oh, I know that.
PO’B: From half two to half three.
GO’B: But closing time in the evening was half seven.
PO’B: No, no, no, no.
GO’B: No, no.
PO’B; No the shift.
GO’D: Oh sorry, sorry.
PO’B: The shift was from half three to half seven.
GO’D: Get ye. And you’d be back on then again would ye?
[phrase unintelligible]
PO’B: [phrase unintelligible] Could be on the morning shift, could be on the evening shift, could be on the night shift. They were the three shifts like, its just the time but it used close from half two to half three.
GO’D: Sure that doesn’t happen anymore either.
PO’B: No, na, na, na.
GO’D: That’s lunchtime trade nowadays, isn’t it?
PO’B: Yeah, yeah, yeah but it used close. There’d be nobody in there, nobody in there. Everybody out. And yes all go out then, go out to Blarney, out to Bishopstown, you’d have to go outside the city, outside the city bounds like.
GO’D: Right.
PO’B: Any pub in the city. If you were outside the city, you could serve away all day.
GO’D: That would be a bit of a long trek to go all the way out to Bishopstown and then back in again like. Know what I mean.
PO’B: Well they go out to Bishopstown and they stay there.
GO’D: Oh yeah, [phrase unintelligible]
PO’B; They go out to Blarney.
GO’D: Yeah, right.
PO’B: You’d have, you’d have to get outside the city bounds. All the pubs inside then had to close from half two to half three.
GO’D: And that was obviously a religious thing was it?
PO’B: I don’t know what it was. [laughs]
GO’D: Holy hour yeah.
PO’B: I don’t think ‘twas religious. I don’t know.
GO’D: They just decided they’d like a break.
PO’B: Well, ‘twas the law at the time. [word unintelligible] That’s gone, its gone away, its done away with thanks be to God. Its just as well.
GO’D: Like, do you remember, were there any particular characters used come in or was there such crowds?
PO’B: Jesus, there was, there was, there was. Everyone went there. Like [word unintelligible] sure who, there was loads like I don’t want to go naming names now but there were, the fellows that were barred were the ones you’d remember like. The people that were drinking there. No there was only Gallagher, Rory Gallagher there, I suppose.
GO’D: Oh yeah.
PO’B: I was looking at.
GO’D: Yeah.
PO’B: Do you know Rory?
GO’D: Yeah, of course I do yeah. He, [word unintelligible] ‘twas Mick Moriarty wrote the article there, the baldy barber out in Blackpool. He used drink there. Mick. And he just wrote a bit there about Gallagher. That’s all I was looking at. And he said about the Swan and Cygnet so the girl there just came up to me and I said yeah I worked there.
GO’D: Yeah, Jesus. [phrase unintelligible] sparking all manner of memories and stuff like that, you know what I mean.
PO’B: Ah stop. Stop. And If you’re passing now right, if you’re passing, you know Black Tie.
GO’D: Yeah.
PO’B: Just below that right, I showed you, didn’t I, there’s a little or do you know what there’s a shoe shop or what below it right, in underneath it there’s a little concrete little plinth with Madra written across it right. Madra Irish for a dog.
GO’D: Yeah.
PO’B: And the water used go into that or what I think was the rain water, I don’t know but all the stray dogs around the place, they could get a drink in Patrick Street, you have a look at that the next time you’re passing there right.
GO’D: And its between it and the shoe shop?
PO’B: Its just, its just, its just down the road from Black Tie, if you’re going down Patrick Street right. Madra is written on it. That’s just one thing I remember from standing outside the door.
GO’D: Yeah.
PO’B: Waiting for the bar to clear at night like.
INTERVIEW ENDS
LOH: But regards to the, the Marsh area or the city as ‘twas called, I mean there’s several marshes there. You have the western marshes and you have the eastern marshes, Dunscombe’s Marsh now would be around Patrick Street and all these places but the marsh that we grew up would be, you had Pike’s Marsh which came up the side of Bachelor’s Quay. You had Hammond’s Marsh then which would be around by the Mercy Hospital there in Henry Street, Peter Street, Moore Street and then you had Fenn’s Marsh which would be where Sheares Street is and you go over further then where Clarke’s Bridge is and you have Clarke’s Marsh. So I mean people say they lived in the Marsh but no one would think of asking them what Marsh did they live in. You know I mean, well most people just call it the Marsh area, you know, they don’t put names on it but me being a local historian, I’m supposed to know all these things. When people are talking to me they want to know, you know what part was Pike’s Marsh you know and all this business. Now they were all called after Merchant Princes’ if you like, they were all well to do Quakers and things like that now and em like Pike’s they had, the Pike family, they had a boat building place in Water Street. They had a timber yard. They had a bank in Adelaide Street, you know that just give you an idea of the type of person, people, the families I’m talking about and they actually lived eventually, they moved, when the city expanded and the city walls were demolished and things like that, they moved to Bessboro in Blackrock, now if you are ever in Bessboro and to see the size of house and the lands all round it, you will know the type of family I was talking about. They were big, big merchant princes. So that would have been the Pike family. There’s not much information on the Hammond family and you know Hammond’s Marsh and why they’re called, why they’re called, how they got their names were when the city walls were demolished after the siege in 1690, the city council as we call ‘em, the corporation decided to lease out the Marshes outside the city walls. Now in actual fact by reading about it, I don’t think they were marshes at all, there was just waterways with islands, you know that the water went around the islands because I mean you’d be asking yourself if there were marshes how did they build on them. That’s just my own interpretation of it now but they filled in all the waterways anyway and they built big houses on the outskirts of the old city walls.
GoD: when you were looking inside what sparked your memory, of any of the articles inside, reminiscences. What got you thinking of all these memories?
FC: Yeah. The layout was. We had a very special hat department inside the door I’ll always remember. I spent most of my time in the men’s outfitting they called it. The layout was different. All the stuff was in drawers. Today stuff is on the racks. It is hanging everywhere. But that time, a person came in for socks or anything you had to pull out a drawer and they’d pick and choose. The display was different. And you had these long mahogany counters. And I remember the hat department. While you got some lovely customers, you’d get some, those days, you’d get some very troublesome people. Over the years they became known, and they became known from other shops. We’d see them coming along, maybe down the stairs or coming up the store and we could always duck into the hat department and get away from them. We had great hideouts. Sometimes we could even manage to duck the boss if we saw him on the war path. The layout was better from that point of view. Everything is more open now, you couldn’t get away with anything. There was more crack as well. There was more jokes and playing pranks on people than there is today.
My father, God rest him, told me a story that in the early days in the Arcade, well before my time now, or your time, of course, they used to sleep in there. They had a dormitory, especially for fellas coming up from the country. And they’d great fun when fellas would come up from the country. One fella, pretending to be a doctor and he’d be examining and you know and all this. But there was one story told, that they used to go to bed at night. And it was almost like a boarding school. The supervisor would come along with a torch to make sure they were all in bed. Apparently one night one fella ducked out to a dance, and the authorities didn’t know anything about it. They dressed up one of the dummies and put it into his bed in the dormitory. Your man came back from the dance, got into his bed and nothing was known about it. That was one of the funny stories I heard. So, that is as much as I can tell you.
GoD: Ah, that’s brilliant. That’s great. Thanks ever so much.