She discusses a variety of childhood games, a strong sense of community and friendly relationships with neighbours that have lasted a lifetime.
Phil recalls the dispensary, subsequently the Grattan Street Health Centre. Inside patients waited on benches for the doctor who tended to their area of the city. She also remembers the dispensary caretaker and pharmacist who lived in the dispensary building.
Her family’s daily routine is described including going to school, family meals and shopping. Her father was very strict about timekeeping, especially when Phil and her siblings were attending dances. This timekeeping came in useful at work where lateness resulted in docked pay, and where there was no sick pay.
Rationing in the 1940s is described, including the amounts of various foodstuffs allowed per person, and how it was circumvented by a neighbour who travelled to England.
Phil speaks of the diseases which we common when she grew up including tuberculosis. She also mentions her relatives who contracted diphtheria and measles and how they were treated. Refers to the vaccines for these diseases too.
Phil would have liked to stay working in Dunlop’s after her marriage as she enjoyed working with the people there but it was not an option. Nonetheless she enjoyed being with her own children at home and watching them grow, something she thinks happens less today.
Specific pawn shops and their locations are also recalled, how they functioned and their role in helping people make ends meet.
]]>Phil grew up in a tenement on Grattan Street and worked in O’Gorman’s Hat Factory and Dunlop’s before getting married and starting a family. She gives a very detailed description of the lanes, houses, shops and families on Grattan Street and the surrounding area of the Middle Parish.
She discusses a variety of childhood games, a strong sense of community and friendly relationships with neighbours that have lasted a lifetime.
Phil recalls the dispensary, subsequently the Grattan Street Health Centre. Inside patients waited on benches for the doctor who tended to their area of the city. She also remembers the dispensary caretaker and pharmacist who lived in the dispensary building.
Her family’s daily routine is described including going to school, family meals and shopping. Her father was very strict about timekeeping, especially when Phil and her siblings were attending dances. This timekeeping came in useful at work where lateness resulted in docked pay, and where there was no sick pay.
Rationing in the 1940s is described, including the amounts of various foodstuffs allowed per person, and how it was circumvented by a neighbour who travelled to England.
Phil speaks of the diseases which we common when she grew up including tuberculosis. She also mentions her relatives who contracted diphtheria and measles and how they were treated. Refers to the vaccines for these diseases too.
Phil would have liked to stay working in Dunlop’s after her marriage as she enjoyed working with the people there but it was not an option. Nonetheless she enjoyed being with her own children at home and watching them grow, something she thinks happens less today.
Specific pawn shops and their locations are also recalled, how they functioned and their role in helping people make ends meet.
0.00.00 - 0.00.22 |
Intro |
0.00.22 - 0.02.23 |
Tenement House Growing Up- Conditions and facilities Grew up in 44 Grattan Street, a tenement house. 4 or 5 families in the house. 6 children in her family, and 6 in another family. Another family with 2. 14 children in the one house. Very happy, great neighbours. Shop underneath their house: “shop on the lap” they called it. It sold sugar, milk, tea. The people who ran the shop lived in the shop as well. A 4-storey house including the attic. The people who lived in the attic had their kitchen on the ground floor. They had no sink, there was one toilet shared by the house and one tap in the yard. There was no electricity, or gas. They used oil lamps, primus store and a coal fire. Everyone lived like that so they “didn’t know any better”. |
0.02.23 - 0.06.27 |
Neighbours, Shops and Streets on & near Grattan Street Next door in 45 Grattan Street was Gamble the tinsmith. Similar type house arrangement. 46 Grattan Street was O’Callaghan’s Pub, even though the owners got married they had their whole family living above the pub. Phil doesn’t think that arrangement could be called a tenement because the house contained all one family. Then there was Peter’s Street, and the Mechanics’ Hall where the Community Centre is now. Fr Lynch from St Peter and Paul’s was good to the poor and he gave the children of the parish a party in the Mechanics’ Hall where children were given a suitable present, eg. a doll. The children looked forward to that each Christmas. Beyond that there was the quarry all the houses previously there were gone. After the quarry there were 3 or 4 tenement houses before you came to Henry Street. Same type of houses. There was also Bobby Lloyd’s shop on the corner sold pots, pans and kitchen utensils. Then Henry Street, and across the road from it was Henrietta’s Shop run by Johno (Johnno) where they got milk or bread. There was a lane behind that with a terrace of houses. There were two pubs beyond that one called Crosses and the other was Kellehers. Beyond that was Francis Street with Randy Hourigan’s shop on the corner. Beyond that was the corner of Bachelor’s Quay where the Doll’s House was with steps up to it which was also a tenement. Around the corner was formerly Dolly Perry’s Nursing Home but was turned into tenements when Phil knew it. Then there was Grenville Place where George Boole had lived, and that area had tenements. Then you returned to Henry Street. The old part of the Mercy Hospital was also there. Then there was Moore Street, Coach Street, and back to Grattan Street. All that area was the circle in which the children were allowed to play. |
0.06.27 - 0.07.52 |
Playing Children’s Games Played tops and whips. Cat and Dog. Piggy. Skylockers. Skylockers: Long strip of crepe paper with some sand in the centre and tied with string. And put string onto the end of it and threw it up in the air and hope that it would come down again and not get caught in the electric wires. Had to make their own enjoyment not like today where people can just press buttons. Chaineys & Playing Shop Used broken coloured glass (calls it mixed spice) to play shop on the footpath. Everyone was the same and everyone joined in. People pretended to be buying some of their shop items which were the pieces of broken glass. |
0.07.52 - 0.10.49 |
More Neighbours, Shops and Streets on & near Grattan Street Phil runs through the buildings and streets on Grattan Street from her house but going in the other direction to which she did before. No 43 Grattan Street’ The People’s Dairy which had eggs, milk, buttermilk, bread. Beyond that was a wholesale place called O’Connors and he had shoes for the shops he was wholesaler for. Above his place was a tenement. No 41 Grattan Street: The M Laundries (M Laundry) with a tenement above it with 3 families. No 40 Grattan Street was the fire station and everyone knew it, and the firemen because they were local. No 39: Barber shop with tenement above it. Next was another barber: Gerry Kane, with tenements above it. Next Roddis which sold pots, pans and tin things. Next was another shop. Then Broad Street and on the other side of it was another tinsmith, another Gamble. There were 3 Gamble brothers from Grattan Street, all of them tinsmiths. After that was a quarry and the houses were gone. Across the road was the old St Francis Church. Coming back down Grattan Street from there was the Third Order Hall. Then a laundry with more tenements. Then another tinsmith. Then Moll Hog’s Mrs Hourigan, a sweet shop at the corner of Broad Lane. Then the Rambler’s Inn, a pub. When that was vacated the Franciscans took it over for their accommodation and they took over the fire station when the new church was being built. Then there was a shoemaker called Rice with tenements above it. |
0.10.49 - 0.11.35 |
The Dispensary/ Grattan Street description of the building and who lived there And then “the Quakers” or the dispensary now Grattan Street Health Centre. The Morrissy family [see CFP_SR00760_Morrissy_2019;] of the chemist on one side of the arch on the dispensary facing onto Grattan Street, and the caretaker lived on the other side, her name was Nellie Long but she was known as Mrs Healy. Morrissy family had two girls and a boy and Phil “mixed with them”. Phil’s family had no garden so they played in the courtyard in the dispensary, which she describes as “a big airy place” there was lots of space compared with where Phil lived. |
0.11.35 - 0.14.28 |
More tenements after the dispensary, continuing tour of Grattan Street. Then “Moll Murph’s” (Moll Murphy) the potato lady. Bridgie on the corner selling sweets. Then Peter Church Lane, down which there were tenements, even though they were only small houses. The McCarthy’s were the only ones to have a house. The grandmother of Terry McCarthy lived down the lane. Terry had recently died at the time of the interview. He sang with the Dixies and sang with Michael Ring junior. Then there was the graveyard [St Peter’s Cemetery] which they knew as “The Proddy Woddys”, down the lane from that was a school and St Peter’s Church which is a centre now on the North Main Street. Phil says they “never mixed with them” ie Protestants. After that was Buckley’s builder’s yard over head was the Manning’s family with some families members married. After that another tenement with Murphy’s on the ground floor and Buckley’s on the first floor. Then more people above them. After that another tenement with the Healey’s lived. Then the quarry and then Coleman’s Lane which had houses and the Kenny’s lived in the first house. Tiny houses. Back on Grattan Street there was Looney’s Shop which sold everything: butter, eggs, bread etc. Then there were two more houses Frankie Scannell lived next to Looney’s Shop and worked in the Fire Station. After that another tenement with 3 or 4 families and then it came to Adelaide Street. |
0.14.28 - 0.17.41 |
Memories of the Dispensary “But the Quakers was nice, it was an airy place” big, huge high ceilings. The garden was inside a bit. [Phil refers to the Grattan Street Health Centre/ Dispensary building as ‘the Quakers’] The big door was never open, the side door was open, but there was a bell on the door and you could ring the bell. Inside were the doctors. The dispensary had about 8 doctors, 4 on either side, in a big hall with rooms off of it. Benches outside each doctor. No appointment. Every area had its own doctor. Phil had Dr Cagney. There was a Dr Moran for another area. You got medicine on the way out from the chemist, in a little hole in the wall. If you wanted cough bottle you brought your own bottle. It wouldn’t surprise Phil if you received tablets in a matchbox. You had to queue up to get that. You’d bring your bottle with you from home. Two or three benches outside each doctor’s door. It was like one big dance hall. There was no appointment but you knew what time he would be there at. And if you had to call the doctor he would come to you at home. Dr Cagney was abrupt but a very good doctor. Mark Cagney who was a presenter on TV3 [now Virgin Media One] was related to Dr Cagney. Phil says Dr Cagney was fabulous, but abrupt: “you’d be afraid like”, “you wouldn’t ask him questions” “the glasses would be down there” [Phil puts her glasses at to the end of her nose and looks over them doing an impression of Dr Cagney.] |
0.17.41 - 0.19.00 |
LDF (Local Defence Forces) Training & Uniform The LDF (Local Defence Forces) used to train in the dispensary building [during WW2]. They had a “browny” uniform and a hat with a slit in it. Something like the Slua Muirí. They may have trained in the courtyard because there was space in “the Quakers”. They had to dress up in their uniforms. Mr Burns (or Byrne’s) who lived in Phil’s tenement was in the LDF. |
0.19.00 - 0.19.26 |
Sense of Community, Safety and Togetherness Everyone went to school together and brought each other. There was great harmony, great neighbours and a very happy childhood. It was safe to walk the streets then in a way it is less so today Phil thinks. |
0.19.26 - 0.20.47 |
Daily Routine, School, Shopping, Streetscape Had breakfast and their mother would bring them to school St Maries of the Isle. She would walk with them as far as across the street from the courthouse [on Washington Street] and after that there were no roads to cross so they could walk on their own from that point. Their mother would meet them again at that point for lunchtime to take them home. There was much less traffic than today, mostly horses and carts. The horses and carts with milk churns came to the Nolan’s next door. You brought your jug to the dairy, Nolan’s Dairy and filled it up with milk. During school they went home at 12:30 for their dinner. And her mother would meet them and bring them back at the start and end of lunch. |
0.20.47 - 0.22.07 |
Father, Work, Parenting and Strict Timekeeping Phil’s dad was working in the Munster Arcade as a draper’s porter. Everything was within walking distance. He had to wake up at 6:45 to be in work for 8:30, he was a great timekeeper. When Phil and her siblings started to go to work her father said “one call now and one call only for the morning.” (meaning that he would call/wake them once only in the morning.) They had to go to Dunlop’s for 8am. Mother would bring the younger children to school. He would do the “first shift” for the working children. He was very strict, “you wouldn’t get around him. If he said no that was it.” A good father. She thinks it was possible to say no to one’s children back then but that is no longer the case today. Her mother was a bit softer. You dare not miss your call because you didn’t get paid when you were out of work. You didn’t get paid even if you were out sick. |
0.22.07 - 0.23.22 |
No Sick Pay, Simple Remedies for Sickness Recalls a young man feeling sick at work. Someone suggested he go home but he said he couldn’t because his mother would kill him! So if you were out of work you were out of pay, so there was very little sickness as a result! “If you were sick you got your Tanora and your aspro” [Aspirin/ Disprin/ Panadol] that was the medicine they had from the chemist. |
0.23.22 - 0.27.43 |
After School, Food, Dinner, Rationing After school they would eat or go out to play. They had dinner in the middle of the day, when they came home at lunchtime from school. Might have bread and jam later- if you got jam you would be delighted. They were never hungry. Dinner would be stew. Something in a pot big enough for the whole family 6 children and the two adults 8 altogether. They didn’t have chops or steak. They had tripe and drisheen. You ate it whether you liked it or not because there was nothing else. Ration books from 1939-1945 butter was made up in 12 ounces. 16 ounces in the pound. The rations allowed 12 ounces for 2 people, 6 ounces each for a week. Tea was rationed. Mr Burns went to England (where Phil thinks the rationing may not have been as severe?!) and he was able to bring back the Van Houten’s Cocoa and his wife Mrs Burns would always share it with Phil’s family whatever they had- it was like Christmas. Doesn’t think that eggs were rationed- if you had the money you could buy them. Cannot say whether bread or milk was rationed. Sugar, tea, butter were rationed. There were vouchers for shoes issued by the Health Board. And you would get the vouchers from the Dispensary, (“The Quakers”). Phil’s mother would know about the vouchers, Phil was only a child at the time so wouldn’t know much about it. She says that if they did get vouchers they wouldn’t tell anyone because they were “very grand” she says in a joking posh accent. She says that her mother was a proud woman and “it was bred into us I’d say.” She didn’t want people to know that she was getting the vouchers, even though everyone else was in the same situation. |
0.27.43 - 0.30.53 |
Visiting the Doctor. Siblings with Diphtheria. Relatives with Measles Phil says “you’d have to be nearly dying” you’d have to have the measles or diphtheria to go to the doctor. You wouldn’t go for a cough or a cold. You’d go if there was something wrong with your ear or your eyes. Otherwise you’d get “Tanora and an aspro” and then you got better. Went into the Dispensary for her ear- doesn’t remember going to the hospital. 3 of her siblings got diphtheria. Her brother Paddy had to be hospitalised. Dr Cagney was their doctor for that. Diphtheria and whooping cough were prevalent at the time. Then injections were made available. Remembers other people in her family getting the measles, light was kept away from their eyes to prevent them going blind although Phil says she doesn’t believe that that is what would cause the blindness. But they kept sufferers in a dark room. It was a 9 day disease- 3 days coming, you had it for 3 days and then 3 days recovering from it. Measles and diphtheria were contagious but she doesn’t know about whooping cough. There was a three-in-one vaccine for those three diseases. Phil’s mother made sure that they got it from the dispensary. |
0.30.53 - 0.32.44 |
Worklife: O’Gorman’s Hat Making and Dunlop’s Worked in Dunlop’s “in the packing” and worked in O’Gorman’s making the berets the hat factory in Shandon maybe in the old butter market. Phil thinks it was a shopping centre or souvenir shop after it was O’Gorman’s Hat Factory. They started up the “berett” (beret) part of the business. Phil describes the hat as a being similar to a “Tammy-Shanto” (Tam O’Shanter) a hat worn by Scottish men, except that it did not have the tassel on it. She worked there for three years and then went to Dunlop’s because there was more money there. In the hat factory they made/knitted berets and shrunk them to the different sizes: 8 and a half, 9 and a half and 10 and half. They were knitted on a machine and put into something to shrink the wool which tightened up. Phil was involved in the setting up of that process and ended up being a supervisor. She then went to Dunlops to do the packing. |
0.32.44 - 0.38.06 |
Working in Dunlop’s, Wellington Boots, Timekeeping Discipline, Stopping Work once Married, Reflections on Staying Home to raise Children. Phil was an “inspectress” (inspector) in the packing section in Dunlop’s. She inspected the wellington boots to see if there was any flaw in them which needed to be repaired. Then they were packed into the boxes and sent out. The men made all the wellingtons and they arrived as a finished product when Phil got to inspect them. There were no women making the wellingtons. The men made them “down the dips”. Phil was inspecting the boots at the top of the heel where there might be a gap which needed to be filled in with some soft rubber. And if it wasn’t done properly she would send the boot back again for repair. She was strict because if there was something wrong with the boot the shop would send it back in any case. And you would be in trouble if it was sent back from the shop as it indicated that you had not been doing your job. “You’d be just called over the rope!”, “and if you were out sick you didn’t get paid while you were out either”. You had to clock in 8am, clock out at lunchtime, clock in after lunch, clock out going home 5pm. If you were five minutes late you were docked pay for quarter of an hour. Phil says that this discipline is good, though it is less common today: “it’s bred into you. You just accept it. You wouldn’t do it today!” That’s where the time keeping her dad had instilled came in useful. Cycled to work down the Centre park Road four times a day because they would go home for lunch- lunch was one hour. She worked for 3 years in Dunlop’s and 3 years in O’Gorman’s. She was in Dunlop’s when she got married, and she had to leave they would not allow her to work now that she was married. She would have liked to have kept working because she was “with a very happy crowd- very nice people.” Phil reflects that it would not happen today, and that men who got married were able to continue working. At the time Phil says they didn’t know any better because it was the same for everyone. Phil thinks they were better off at home with their children. Many people today would want to be at home with their children but they can’t afford it with the cost of the mortgage and other expenses. Phil feels sorry for people today who can’t be with their children- “there’s no money would pay you for that. You fit ‘em out for the world. And hope for the best after that. I know the best of them like might go astray. But at the same time you do your best.” “I thought it was lovely being at home with your children- you saw ‘em grow up” Phil says nowadays people have children before they get married. |
0.38.06 - 0.39.08 |
Diseases: TB, Tuberculosis and Recuperation There was TB at the time though none of her family got it. When you were recovering you had to go to the country to Sarsfield’s Court which was the heart of the country that time. There was Heatherside in Doneraile in North Cork which was a place for recuperating from TB you were there for 6 or 9 months until the TB was gone. Phil says thank god none of her family got TB she jokes that they “must have been well looked after with our bread and butter and our eggs.” |
0.39.08 - 0.42.55 |
Houses, landlords, house ownership, shared water pumps, class distinctions, comparative wealth, protestants, graveyard, relations between Catholics and Protestants All McCarthy family lived in the one house in Peter Church Lane though they may not have owned it. Phil says she thought they were very well off but the people who got married were still living in the family home. There was a pump at the top of the lane as they had no taps in their houses, they had to fill their buckets at the top of the lane. Doesn’t think the McCarthys who lived in the first house in the lane had a tap either. Mr Cronin owned Phil’s family’s house. He was a railway man living in Glasheen. He came every week for his rent. You made sure you had your rent. He was a very nice man. You didn’t feel they were above you. People had their rent there was no ifs and buts. He worked in the railway he had a black uniform and the railway badge. He was only an ordinary worker but he owned 44 Grattan Street. Phil has met some of his family since and says they were all ordinary people- you didn’t feel that they were above you or below you even though they might have a little bit more than you- you never felt that. The have and the have nots. Even mixed with the Nolans of the People’s Dairy. Mixed with everyone except the Protestants (‘the Proddy Woddys’). Phil thinks that there was a caretaker for St Peter’s church living down the lane. One of the bars in the railings of St Peter’s (Protestant) graveyard was bent so they were able to get in there as children “you’d be hauled over the ropes” if they were caught. They weren’t allowed in there by the Protestants but also their parents did not wasn’t them in there. “Times were different. Sure we think nothing of Protestants now.” “The Catholics and the Protestants were miles apart long go.” |
0.42.55 - 0.44.38 |
Family of the Pharmacist that lived in the Dispensary Mr Morrissy was the pharmacist that lived in the dispensary he made up the prescriptions. There was a hatch in the wall where people queued to hand in their prescription and wait for the medicine to be handed out. Never called anyone by their Christian name only as Mr, Mrs or Miss. The owners of Leaders shop on the North Main Street were known as Mr & Mrs and their daughters as Miss. Phil has been to visit one of the daughters recently and she still calls her Miss Leader. Went there for communion and confirmation clothes. Everyone got to know each other and grow up together. Miss Leader knows Phil’s family as “the Walls” she doesn’t know them by their married name. |
0.44.38- 0.48.57 |
Pawns and Pawn Shops Jones Pawn Shop, Kiely’s on Liberty Street where St Anthony’s Stores is now which is opposite St Francis. There was also a St Francis’ Stores on the corner of Sheares Street near the corner of the Courthouse which is a barber shop now. Jones Pawn shop on the North Gate Bridge, and Kiely’s may have had another shop on the North Main Street. Put in your clothes on a Monday and took them out on the Saturday. That gave you money for the week but you had to pay then on Saturday when you got the clothes out of the pawn. “They were hard times but ‘tis what everyone did.” Imagines her family used the pawn but she wasn’t told about it. You had to be back for a certain time to collect the items pawned and if you weren’t they kept the item. And that is how they had the old gold to sell. You could put something in for a month but you had to return on time to redeem it. The pawn shops “had lovely stuff” they were like antique shops they had such beautiful things in them. Lovely gold watches, rings. “You could admire them in the window but you couldn’t go in and buy them because we didn’t have the money.” They wouldn’t take shoddy stuff from you, they wouldn’t give you money for them. You could put an item in for 6 months. Everyone did it, it was nothing to be ashamed of it. As times got better the pawn shops faded out. The pawns definitely made money, Phil believes they were always very wealthy. Phil jokes that the pawn owners may have lived in Montenotte but she doesn’t know where they lived. People that had money were buying things from the pawns. Thick rings. |
0.48.57- 0.50.38 |
A Treat Sweets. On a Sunday her dad would give them a shilling between 6 children so 2 pence each after their dinner. But they didn’t dare ask for it. Once their dinner was finished on a Sunday the children were wondering “would he ever pay us?!”. He chose when it was time to pay them. There was 12 pennies in the shilling. They got a lot for their penny- ten sweets for a penny in a shop. They looked forward to it. Types of sweets: Bulls eyes, clove rock, peggy’s leg, black jacks. You could get a half a penny’s worth of sweets if you liked. There were also farthings- a quarter of a penny. |
0.50.38 - 0.53.24 |
What Happened to the Dispensary? The dispensary faded out, as people set up their own medical practices. The Health Board took it over, the doctors faded out and set up own places. Phil’s husband had to go to a doctor and the first visit was €200, though the price was less for subsequent visits. Phil often heard of €100 or €150 for a visit but thought that €200 was too much. Phil said that you didn’t have to pay going to the doctor or to the dispensary, but evens till they didn’t go unless it was necessary. The dispensary was a busy place. Doesn’t know where people who had money went to the doctor because they didn’t know anyone who had money. Lovely looking place inside, it was well done-up. It was “a big hall and you’d have rooms off of it four on that side and four on that side and you had two benches outside each door. You just sat on the bench then and took your turn, and hoped for the best.” LDF trained there certain nights a week and they had to wear uniform. |
0.53.24 - 0.54.11 |
Meets old neighbours from Grattan Street to this day, eg Byrnes, Mr Byrne was in the LDF, there were 6 in that family who live in the same house as hers. Only 2 of the Byrne’s left, 3 in Phil’s family. Still meet and socialise to talk about old times and the fun they had. They made their own fun. |
0.54.11 - 0.56.52 |
Protestant Graveyard at the back of St Peter’s They went in through the bars. “There were all tombs, like tables: you could have a meal on one of them. They were fabulous!” “There were no small headstones.” “There were headstones, but nothing poor about them” Fr Walsh from St Peter and Paul’s had the Don Bosco troupe/troop there to do plays for the stage like Father Matthew Hall. There was a place where the school was, “the Protestants were kinda fading out” and Fr Walsh set up the Don Bosco troupe and they had instruments. The Lynches were there: Pat Lynch, and Stevie. They had a hall beside the graveyard. They played instruments, sang songs and practiced there. They performed in small places in Cork, and they did Christmas shows down the lane. Fr Lynch used to do the parties for the poor children at Christmas. The parties were in the Mechanic’s Hall (now The Middle Parish Community Centre) upstairs where there was a stage. |
0.56.52 - 0.58.54 |
Mass, Religion, Dances, Strict Timekeeping They went to mass in St Francis but they were baptised in St Peter and Paul’s as it was their parish church. All her brothers were altar boys in St Peter and Pauls, and the girls were in the choir in St Francis. Her mother had the children involved in everything they were never left “go wild”. They were also in the Girl Guides or the Boy Scouts. She kept tabs on them. When they went to dances in St Francis Hall they were given five minutes to come home from the céilí on Saturday night from 8-11pm. If you went to the Arc (the Arcadia), facing the railway station it’s now apartments where the dance was 8-11 they were allowed half an hour to walk home. It was safe to walk home at that time, there would be no cars or buses after 11pm. If you weren’t there on time her mother would start walking towards them “I often met her!” says Phil. “What kept you?” her mother asked in case she had “been with the fellas”. That was the discipline that they had which they took with them and tried to instil in their own children “and do the best you can” doesn’t think it is easy to do that today. |
0.58.54 - 0.59.14 |
Christmas Party Phil doesn’t think that there was a Christmas party in the dispensary, only one in the Mechanic’s Hall [her sister Mary Mulcahy had mentioned a party in the dispensary, see CFP_SR00729_Mulcahy_2019]. |
0.59.14 - 1.02.08 |
Swimming: Outdoor Baths- Storage, Separate Days for Men and Women. Kingsley Hotel Flood They went swimming in the outdoor baths, they were not allowed in the Eglinton Baths because it was stagnant water. But they were allowed to cycle or walk up to the outdoor baths. They brought the togs and towel under their arm, and often had a picnic up there were a flask and sandwiches. Phil says she remembers the summers being lovely but that they are probably the same as they are now! Monday, Wednesday and Friday the baths were open for women, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday was for the men. There were boxes all around the pool where you togged off. Your clothes could be stolen and you’d have to walk home in your togs. That never happened to Phil as they always had someone minding the box, or they swam in front of the box. They built a hotel [the Kinglsey] over those baths, and her husband is mad about that because they could have made a 50 metre pool there. At the time it was 50 metres one way and 50 yards in the other direction. Thinks the only 50 metre pools are in Limerick and the Aquatic Centre in Dublin. There was a flood in the Kingsley Hotel, which didn’t surprise Phil because that was where the swimming pool was with water from the Lee. |
1.02.08 - 1.05.02 |
Meeting her Husband. Anniversary. She met her husband in O’Gorman’s hat factory- but she “wasn’t going with him” then. Two or three years later she met him in the dances and “he used to dance me” and then they “became a couple and that was it. The rest is history.” They celebrated their sixtieth wedding anniversary on the previous Sunday. They didn’t do anything for the anniversary as Phil didn’t feel ready for it due to a number of family bereavements. But she had a small celebration at home. Later on she will have a bigger celebration, there will be plenty of time for that she thinks. “60 years with the one man” Phil says “I’m doing a line for 66 years!” [‘doing a line’ is Cork slang for dating someone.] Phil says that she doesn’t remember when there were Quakers there but it was always known as “the Quakers”. “but what kind the Quakers were now I have no idea.” [Interview Ends] |
Describes attending school in cold substandard buildings. Preferred self-directed learning to rote memorizing. Her love of nature and science was evident early and evolved into her passion to follow medicine as a vocation and career, despite the opposition of her parents and GP who feared it would be a hard life especially for a woman.
Reflects on the deficiencies of medical training in University College Cork, especially the deliberate use of fear and humiliation in teaching which has left a negative mark on her and other colleagues. Suggests that the need to imprint so much information through humiliation is no longer necessary due to improvements in technology.
Outlines her career path through various roles, experiences and responsibilities including working in Accident and Emergency and time in New Zealand.
Discusses her impressions of Grattan Street Medical Centre both as a physical building with leaks and in disrepair and as a unique workplace with a community of multiple disciplines which function well together.
Speaks about her current work as an Area Medical Officer, the kind of patients she sees and typical issues that arise including developmental checks on babies and following up with parents.
Reflects on attitudes towards medicine and the HSE especially among parents, and how as a doctor she has to deal with this in order to achieve best outcomes for child patients.
Outlines the problems with Grattan Street staff car parking and the issues it cause.
Talks about the outlines of the history she has gleaned about Grattan Street Medical Centre Building as a Quaker Meeting House and as a public dispensary.
Speaks of the marriage registry office which is part of the Grattan Street building, where weddings happen during her work day creating a strange but joyous contrast.
Discusses the amount of paperwork and documentation required for all the work in Grattan Street that remains from past decades which fascinates her.
Reflects on her hopes and the possible futures for the Grattan Street Medical Centre building, and the fate of services that will move to St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre in Gurranabraher. Compares the two locations and emphasizes the importance of a good workplace culture within a building. Talks about possible patient attitudes to the new building. Hopes it will have a communal staff canteen.
Outlines the importance of administration staff in contributing to positive experiences for patients and facilitating the efficient work clinical staff.
Reflects on the difficulties of a medical career including 90 hour weeks, missing out on parties and travelling, and having to tell mothers that their babies have died.
]]>Edith grew up in Youghal where she recalls playing childhood games including Red Rover, chainey, a makeshift tennis and sandcastles on the beach.
Describes attending school in cold substandard buildings. Preferred self-directed learning to rote memorizing. Her love of nature and science was evident early and evolved into her passion to follow medicine as a vocation and career, despite the opposition of her parents and GP who feared it would be a hard life especially for a woman.
Reflects on the deficiencies of medical training in University College Cork, especially the deliberate use of fear and humiliation in teaching which has left a negative mark on her and other colleagues. Suggests that the need to imprint so much information through humiliation is no longer necessary due to improvements in technology.
Outlines her career path through various roles, experiences and responsibilities including working in Accident and Emergency and time in New Zealand.
Discusses her impressions of Grattan Street Medical Centre both as a physical building with leaks and in disrepair and as a unique workplace with a community of multiple disciplines which function well together.
Speaks about her current work as an Area Medical Officer, the kind of patients she sees and typical issues that arise including developmental checks on babies and following up with parents.
Reflects on attitudes towards medicine and the HSE especially among parents, and how as a doctor she has to deal with this in order to achieve best outcomes for child patients.
Outlines the problems with Grattan Street staff car parking and the issues it cause.
Talks about the outlines of the history she has gleaned about Grattan Street Medical Centre Building as a Quaker Meeting House and as a public dispensary.
Speaks of the marriage registry office which is part of the Grattan Street building, where weddings happen during her work day creating a strange but joyous contrast.
Discusses the amount of paperwork and documentation required for all the work in Grattan Street that remains from past decades which fascinates her.
Reflects on her hopes and the possible futures for the Grattan Street Medical Centre building, and the fate of services that will move to St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre in Gurranabraher. Compares the two locations and emphasizes the importance of a good workplace culture within a building. Talks about possible patient attitudes to the new building. Hopes it will have a communal staff canteen.
Outlines the importance of administration staff in contributing to positive experiences for patients and facilitating the efficient work clinical staff.
Reflects on the difficulties of a medical career including 90 hour weeks, missing out on parties and travelling, and having to tell mothers that their babies have died.
0.00.00 - 0.00.23 |
Intro |
0.00.23- 0.02.04 |
Games Played as Child in Youghal Grew up in Youghal. Children’s games: chasing games, Red Rover, What Time is it Mr Wolf?, Chainy. Elastics game: Long piece of elastic tied into a loop with a person at each end with complex rules about how to jump in and out and over and back. Played tennis: in the tennis club and also “over the gate”. It was the era of John McEnroe, Martina Navratilova and Bjorn Borg. Played a form of football. Made mud pies. |
0.02.04- 0.02.26 |
Describes game Chainy or Chainey in more detail Still played in her child’s school. One person catches another and they must keep holding hands and keep catching people until they are all holding hands in a long chain. |
0.02.26- 0.03.06 |
Describes Red Rover or Bulldog She didn’t like Red Rover. Stand in chain and chant “Red Rover, Red Rover, we call over X” Begins with 2 children holding hands and the person who is called over must try to run through their hands and break the link, which Edith says always hurt and as she was “quite small” she was usually the weak link. If someone didn’t break the link they had to join that chain. |
0.03.06- 0.03.47 |
Games on The beach Not much time in the water/sea because it was too cold. Made sandcastles, sand tunnels, forts, dams to keep the sea out or bring the sea in. These plans never worked and Edith says “you learned about futility as a smallie”. |
0.03.47- 0.04.38 |
Playing Without Adult Supervision Spent a lot of time quite bored in fields or on bikes. “We’d just head off on the bikes for the day: I don’t really know where we went or why we went.” Only television was RTE 1 and RTE 2- “Poverty 1 and Poverty 2” there was nothing to watch. Call to friend and come back when felt like it. No phones. Improvised ways out of problems. Reasonable amount of time without adult supervision. But there were always watchful adult eyes: “if you were doing something you shouldn’t be doing your parents would usually hear about it.” |
0.04.38- 0.05.00 |
Where not allowed to play Places not allowed to be on bikes when little: out the front on the main road where cars were quite fast. Not supposed to go on the back fields where there was a bull. (Suggestion in her response is that they may have not always obeyed!) |
0.05.00 - 0.05.16 |
Home Mum, dad and sister 3 years older. Mum was primary school principal. Dad worked Monday-Friday 9-5. |
0.05.16- 0.06.51 |
Primary School Remembers being cold and very bored. Went to school in “Park” on a crossroads on the top of a hill in the middle of nowhere. Where her mum was teacher. 2 teacher outside toilets and no central heating when she started school. There was a stove to heat the classroom very like the school in Muckross Farms. Two “boot rooms” or cloakrooms. Inside toilets eventually installed. Very few students. |
0.06.51- 0.09.50 |
Secondary School Went to Loreto in Youghal it was also very cold. Some years were in prefabs. The school was near the lighthouse. When you were bored you could look out to the sea from an old redbrick house which was left to the nuns. It was very exposed to the weather- wind, rain and salt spray from the sea-wall. Enjoyed maths and science. Lots of repetition in the schoolwork. Would prefer self-directed learning not just learning by rote. For people with other kinds of intelligence it wasted their potential and opportunity. Heuristic learning- learning through play and experience. She learned how to sew a button, balance a cheque book and pay a bill. Skills for living in the world: how to cook how to clean how to look after your physical health, mental health should be taught. |
0.09.50- 0.11.19 |
Love of Nature and Science leading to Medicine. Was always interested in nature and biological sciences: “mad about nature”. When 13 or 14 a friend brought a roadkill mink to science class to dissect it. The teacher was a bit squeamish, but Edith said she would do it “no bother”. Remembers “pure awe” at how remarkably perfect the insides were, “how it all fitted, and it all worked”. Had dissected earthworms before. Drifted then to wanting to do medicine. Set her heard on it. |
0.11.19- 0.14.09 |
Medicine as a Vocation, the Determination Required Mom and dad really didn’t want her to do medicine at all. They called in the local GP to tell her not to do it- which had the opposite effect. She applied for medicine at 16 when she sat her leaving cert for the first time and had to repeat it because she didn’t get enough points. In some ways in hindsight her parents were probably right. It is a hard life and requires working very hard for a very long time. Edith was a premature baby and was always physically small and thin and her parents were concerned. Her colleague with an Italian grandmother described the need to do medicine as being like a holy fire [Note: “sacro fuoco” maybe?] similar to a vocation but perhaps not spiritual. If you have this fire nothing else will do. She also applied for computer science. If she hadn’t done medicine in college, she thinks she would have gone back to do it later in life. Local GP told her it’s a very hard life for a woman- which is not the thing to say to a 15-year-old. Thinks the nuns that taught her was feminist in their way as they were ambitious for their students. The GP said that you don’t want to do nightshifts when pregnant or be on call when you have small babies. The cards are very much stacked against you to make it in medicine as a consultant as a woman. Edith says he was right but that you don’t want to hear that at 15. |
0.14.09- 0.15.17 |
Nuns’ Ambition for the girls Only one in school to do medicine. Many of the students did honours maths. There was competition between the boys’ school and the girls’ school. They’ve now combined. Some schools didn’t offer honours maths or honours science subjects to leaving cert for girls. |
0.15.17- 0.18.40 |
Medical Training in UCC University College Cork Didn’t love medicine in UCC. Didn’t find the training easy- a culture of throwing people in to it. Students told that most of them would become GPs and that medical students learn themselves they don’t need to be taught. Lectures often had little relevance to what was in the book. Clinical training involved bullying, teaching by fear, humiliation. Consultant was seen as god. Lots of waiting around for people who didn’t turn up. Mental fallout for some of the people in her class. And the system may not have made them better doctors. Saw how students were taught differently overseas. Students were getting sick in the morning with nerves before clinics. Had friends who weren’t doing medicine. Met her now husband at 19. Always had something outside of medicine to stay grounded. Always liked the clinical work and the patients. |
0.18.40 - 0.23.40 |
Clinical Training Book learning- through lectures. Clinical placements for students with a particular service for a time follow their team and learn how to take a patient history and examine a patient. Initially must ask about everything when taking patient histories until you know what to look for. Lived in nurses’ home in Limerick for six weeks. Consultant would take you to see an interesting patient to ask you questions. Some were fine but some were set up so that you would definitely fail so that you know that you know nothing and be humiliated. It was done to everybody no one was singled out. Describes how the consultant asked students questions. Thinks that the experience has left a mark on her and otherwise confident colleagues as they sometimes have difficulty answering questions in group settings, or when in a particular tone. Describes it as like being triggered. Edith didn’t go to one consultant’s clinics because she found she wasn’t learning from him. No one would notice if she wasn’t there. Jokes that she hopes UCC doesn’t as they’ll take away her degree! |
0.23.40- 0.25.25 |
Why this teaching system was used in UCC Consultants wanted to imprint the exceptions and rare cases on their minds so they wouldn’t forget. It was basically the Socratic method. They were once told that they weren’t good enough to be medical students. Then not good enough to be the vets in Ballsbridge and lastly that they weren’t good enough to be the medical correspondent in the Irish Times! Sounds funny now but at the time they were devastated. But Edith still remembers the name of the particular type of amputation due to this scene. This system of teaching & learning was designed when people need to remember a lot of information. Now things have changed as “all the information is there” now you need to learn how to use it. An interesting patient is one which had something which was rare. Edith describes it as something with four legs, a tail and neighs but is a zebra not a horse. |
0.26.05- 0.30.07 |
Career Path for medical students SHO- senior house officer. After qualifying you become an intern. After a first year as an intern you can become an SHO. Then become a Registrar, then a Senior Registrar, Specialist Registrar and eventually a Consultant. SHO could be 2-4 years long. SHOs are the general grunts they do all the hard work. Edith did 6 months surgery in Mercy Hospital, 6 months of medicine in the South Infirmary Hospital and really enjoyed them. Every thirds week in the Mercy they worked 110 hours. In hindsight they had “ridiculous levels of responsibility”. Then did the 2 year specialist paediatric training scheme in Dublin. Then did paediatrics in New Zealand, then accident and emergency. Did GP training in New Zealand. Returned to Ireland when her eldest daughter was 1. Worked as GP in Cork. After her twins were born Edith went back to work when they were 8 months old. She worked for Swiftcare for 5 years. Husband stayed at home to mind children and was going to go back to work. She was clinical lead with Swiftcare which included corporate, management and clinical. Looking to reduce her hours and her friend asked if she would be interested in a job in Grattan Street and she started March 2013. |
0.30.07- 0.33.44 |
Enjoyed Accident and Emergency work in New Zealand Edith says A&E in New Zealand is fabulous. It was real doctoring. The immediacy of it. See lots of different things. Got her clinical confidence- could deal with anything. Security removed anyone who was abusive. There was always enough resources, staff, beds. People weren’t burnt out in the way they are in Ireland. Requires being on call on nights. Did A&E in the Hutt outside wealthy Wellington CBD Central Business District and Porirua. Deprived areas around the Hutt so there were cases of self-harm, domestic abuse and patients from lower-socioeconomic areas. Gravitated towards those areas, similar in her time in Temple Street. In Cork Edith works mainly in the Northside. The social supports either weren’t there or didn’t work in her experience in Ireland. Children unable to access basic dental care was unheard of in New Zealand where they have better primacy care. |
0.33.44- 0.36.36 |
Early Memory & description of Grattan Street Medical Centre A woman working downstairs said it was like coming to Colditz [German WW2 Prisoner of War Camp]. Arrived with a friend. Everyone was so nice. An old Quaker Meeting House. In busy urban areas between a school, busy road, houses, church complex. Hodgepodge! Kind of Victorian road frontage. Older building at the back made of cut stone. Higgledy-piggledy. Different types of signage. There’s a bit of a railing and bit of a ramp. Building kept together with duct tape and bits of binder twine. It’s a bit sad looking. But it has been here a long time and will be here in the future. A building that’s seen use and is embedded in the community. In keeping with Middle Parish. |
0.36.36- 0.39.02 |
Services in Grattan Street Medical Centre Health centre which provides community-based services for people based in Middle Parish, inner-city area, eye clinic provides community eye services for all of the North Lee HSE area- from Blarney to Carrigtwohill. Community podiatry clinic. Community medical doctors: child development clinics and vaccination services for North Lee. Public Health Nurse (PHN) services based in Grattan Street. Home Care Services Unit. Community dental services has moved out. Girls at front desk do European Health Visit Card and stamp forms- eye clinic etc. Community Welfare Officer used to be there as well but they have moved. Vaccination services. Similar but disparate services. Serve different populations within the community. Community based services are geographically decided rather than by your condition. |
0.39.02- 0.40.40 |
Engagement with a Community Based Service Hopes that services run in the community for the community get a better engagement rather than traveling to a tertiary centre. More likely to engage with a PHN who you may have been to before than an anonymous person in an anonymous clinic that changes each time you go. Community knowledge of Grattan Street in a way that there isn’t for CUH. Grattan Street doesn’t deal with life and death so expectations are different to a hospital. Physically less distance for people to travel in the community. |
0.40.40- 0.43.44 |
Working in Grattan Street Communal Building Uses Grattan Street for office-based work. Some clinics in Grattan Street but the demographics have changed and there are fewer babies and young children in the area. Primarily paper-pushing and renewing the connections that you have with the people who work in Grattan Street. Clinics in South Doc so it’s possible for Edith not to meet any other healthcare professionals only patients so Grattan Street is a social hub and important part of the job where information is transmitted in a more informal way not through writing. Importance of feedback. And Grattan Street facilitates that. Communal building. Can see people walking past and talk to them if you leave your office door open. Facilitates those networks. You will know who is in the building and check in with Celine in the office to see who else is there and what is happening. AMO- Area Medical Officer now Community Medical Doctors. |
0.43.44- 0.51.20 |
Clinics and Patients in Grattan Street Afternoon clinic downstairs in room 4 in Grattan Street. 6-10 patients in an afternoon clinic from 2:30-4pm. Anything referred in by the PHN or the assessment of needs- the disability services, and early intervention- concern with an ongoing developmental delay in child in the community. Checks for vision, head checks, hip checks. Partly routine partly not routine. Patients tend to be very early or very late. People will turn up 30 minutes early or 15-20 minutes late. Other places people turn up on time or a few minutes late. But with small babies delays happen for parents. Staff has high tolerance for that. Sometimes a mum will come with other children as well, or with a granny or granny will come with the children or there will be a friend or helper there too. Majority of patients come from PHNs. Form from PHN saying who their GP is and why they’re being referred. Always checks their names especially as more and more patients don’t have a typical Irish name. Some of them change mobile numbers often so checking those details is important. Change of address is also a problem. Some come from Edel House a women’s homeless service. Takes a background history or birth history- where they were born, birth weight, past medical history. Discuss risk factors, examine patients and how to proceed and be very clear with follow up instructions with the parents. We only remember 30% of what we are told. Usually don’t see patients again- not a follow up, ongoing service, don’t provide therapeutic intervention. “Good at normal”- this is within the range of what we expect. Much of medicine is about the abnormal. Most usual medical issues she deals with: Vision checks for squint, hip checks- concern about deformation, head checks. Developmental assessment- concern about autism or global developmental delay or intellectual disability. Preschools are good at spotting developmental concerns and referring them. |
0.51.20- 0.54.53 |
Attitudes of Parents towards Health & Medicine and HSE Parents want the best for children and are happy to do the best what it takes. Rare case where parent is in denial about their child’s situation- Edith doesn’t hassle them so as not to sour therapeutic relations down the line. Most people engage unlike adult medicine. Some parents may have complicated or chaotic lives and social workers may need to get involved. Advocate for the child’s best interests and is represented in the family. Even parents with most complicated lives can address the child’s needs. HSE is different. Expectation of a bad service especially where Grattan Street looks a bit rough and ready, but surprised that they get a good service and Edith is pleasant and doesn’t rush them out. Difficult conversations about telling parents of long waiting lists. Edith cannot speed up assessments. |
0.54.53- 0.58.43 |
Most Unusual Cases come across Doesn’t like unusual. Should not be seeing anything acute or sinister. A child staring into space could have autism sometimes it could be an absence seizure which needs a difficult treatment. Genetic abnormality which causes a developmental delay. Acute cases usually picked up by the paediatricians. Be careful about not scaring parents. Sometimes parents are reluctant to go to hospital. Acute cases are the ones that you think about when you go home and are not at work. Acute is something which cannot wait. Less concerned about something which is stable and isn’t going to change eg if someone is fragile X a chromosomal condition which causes developmental delay, commonest cause of intellectual disability- if a patient has this it is not going to go away. But if there’s a child you think has a brain tumour which has given them an acute squint which has come on over 24 hours out of nowhere then you don’t want to wait. |
0.58.43- 1.01.44 |
Dealing with Parents Reluctant to go to Hospital Most parents want what’s best for child. Sometimes parents can sometimes be preparing to fight to get what they think their child needs, and be adversarial. Can spend much of consultation time to get the parent onside. Have to be careful to not reinforce the idea that the parent thinks they need to push harder to get what they want. Explains that she wouldn’t do for someone else’s child what she wouldn’t do for any of her own. That can be a powerful message for a parent. If that doesn’t convince them then she has to start thinking about social workers: is there child abuse, is the parent drunk or stoned. |
1.01.44- 1.02.30 |
Why People may be reluctant to go to Hospital Down to resources: can’t afford taxi, no one to mind children, don’t want to go to CUH Cork University Hospital. Often single mums, mums without social supports, or trying to work and mind children. Physical upheaval is difficult. Logistically and economically difficult for parents. Example from Gurranabraher. |
1.02.30- 1.04.58 |
What it is like to work in Grattan Street Unique. Communal building, sense of community. Even people that you don’t deal with clinically you get to know which is important. Buildings are about the people in them not just the services they provide. Physicality of the building- open gallery- you can see & hear who is there. Would prefer it if was a warner building. Survivor bonding over the deficiencies of the building. Problems with parking. People say they work in Grattan Street not in podiatry. |
1.04.58- 1.06.24 |
Parking Small area for parking, not big enough for all the people who work there. Have to move your car to let people out. Didn’t park in the car park when working a half-day because wouldn’t be able to get out. School and houses also use the parking area and they can get cross if they are blocked. |
1.06.24- 1.09.12 |
Past of the Building Quaker meeting house. Building is set up like a church- entrance with arch and sweeping staircases, ceiling roses, curved picture rails. Awareness of the thickness of the walls and windows, not the typical shape for an office building or healthcare centre. Stone plaques outside in the parking area which commemorate the building. Was a dispensary from the 1940s one of the school nurses on the list of interviewees has a friend whose father was the dispenser or pharmacist there. Some of the came to Grattan Street as children for speech and language therapy. No anecdotes about when the lights went out or when it flooded. Cultural understanding of dispensary is that it was a publicly funded pharmacy but that they were fairly grim places for the ordinary not the great and the good. Lots of rooms and big building. |
1.09.12- 1.11.37 |
Weddings in the Registry in Grattan Street Other part of the building is the registry office at the front where people get married. Weddings out the front when coming to work. Children crying and elderly people. Swathe of human life. Unusual to see weddings in the urban work environment which makes everyone smile. And she will miss that when they move. Thinks other employees will have stories and anecdotes. |
1.11.37- 1.15.00 |
Paper & Documents in Grattan Street No one would believe how much paper is in the building. No one removes paper because no one knows who it belongs to. Paper based system for records. Accretions of paper. Shared office space where very little is thrown away. Extraordinary volume of paper created and used. Referrals done on duplicate books with carbon copy. Referral books for services which no longer exist- going back as far as the 1970. Old computers unused. Random boxes of leaflets. |
1.15.00- 1.18.10 |
Words to Describe Grattan Street and its future Community. Resilience. Service. If it was a dog it would be a Labrador, and old smelly one with bad teeth that farts a lot! A pet that everyone loves. Would hate to see the building closed and empty. Sense of spirit in the building. Understands that Quakers signed over the building with the view that it would be used for health services to the community. There’s no disabled access or toilets at present. Buckets in kitchen when it rains. Won’t do well if it is left empty and cold. Community based health resource rather than offices and admin. |
1.18.10- 1.22.13 |
Future of Services moving from Grattan Street Services moving to St Mary’s health campus. Podiatry moving to St Mary’s. PHN have moved already. Vaccination will move to St Mary’s. Eye clinic will move to St Finbarr’s. Dental has gone to Finbarr’s. Unsure about European Health Cards. Home Care may stay here. Marriages will stay. They have had little information about the services. Understands the complexity of project managing the move. Eye clinic will be physically remote from St. Mary’s. Lose sense of networks even though you can still pick up the phone. Lose contacts and networks and personally knowing people in other services. Personal knowledge of how other people work. It gives you more information about how to triage or perceive a referral when you know the people. Anything that interferes with getting information relevant to the patient and decision-making will make her job slightly harder. |
1.22.13- 1.25.19 |
Sense of Patients’ Perspectives Some clinic space may have to be kept in Grattan Street because of the most vulnerable patients in the area eg. from Edel House and newly arrived immigrants, and people who have moved out of direct provision. Families where English might not be first language and from backgrounds where there might be poor healthcare. Travel may be difficult for these patients, especially going “up the hill” to St Mary’s. Will advocate strongly to keep a clinic in Grattan Street- it’s easier to move 1 doctor to see 30 patients than vice versa, and do not need any specialised equipment. Grattan Street is a disaster for people with cars- St Mary’s is much better it has parking, space and coffee shops. Ensure that better services elsewhere don’t leave more vulnerable patients behind. |
1.25.19- 1.27.47 |
Comparison between Grattan Street and St. Mary’s St Mary’s will have: heating, lifts disabled toilets, large waiting areas, easy access. [Edith’s phone vibrates during this section] In Grattan Street if you are on crutches you can’t come to work. St Mary’s will fix these problems. Change is hard. [Edith’s phone vibrates during this section] With a new start if gives the staff a chance to effect the culture of the new building. Everyone in the building making small inputs. Christmas lunch potluck and baby showers in Grattan Street for which there is no policy or permission required people organised it themselves- autonomy and power. |
1.27.47- 1.31.31 |
Culture of the New Building & Importance of Admin People need to feel they have some autonomy of their workplace eg. the signs in Grattan Street which people put up without needing permission. Every clerical and admin staff can hear the patients who come into Grattan Street so they understand that they are not a piece of paper or a number. Further away people are from the person they provide the worse the service provision. Service lives and dies on its administrative staff. When admin staff goes on holidays the clinical staff are bereft! Importance of admin staff even though their role can be minimised. But in Grattan Street there is a good balance. St Mary’s may be isolated in separate rooms. |
1.31.31- 1.33.02 |
What Makes Good Admin Support? Patience. Being able to spin so many plates. First point of contact for people who use the service. People who understand that it’s really important. Although HSE gets a bad reputation every admin staff has been helpful and gone above and beyond. Celine in Grattan Street is very patient. |
1.33.02- 1.35.14 |
Patient Expectations of St Mary’s Big scary, bewildering building. Hope that people will be made to feel welcome. Scale of foyer area is colossal and may be overwhelming. Community should have some autonomy over the building in the same way the staff should. Comfortable seats and accessible baby changing facilities may be enough to make people feel welcome. |
1.35.14-1.38.08 |
Centralised Canteen Would like to see centralised canteen for the staff with access to healthy food. Small things become important. Easy to walk around and access healthy food. Sense that the community can use the space- not much green space on the northside. Chance to look at a different model of healthcare. Moaning is easy and can create a toxic culture if things never change. Small kitchen room on St Mary’s health campus. St Finbarr’s has a centralised canteen but CUH doesn’t. Give people healthy options on site. |
1.38.08-1.40.43 |
Community connection with Grattan Street more generally Edith has little interaction with Middle Parish community. Sees people coming and going from Middle Parish Community Centre and from the SHARE Centre, may help them across the road. Very little interaction which she finds quite sad. Would know some of the support workers in Edel House through working with them and phone calls. Reality of life is everyone is very busy. No funding for other community outreach projects. May run ante-natal classes in Grattan Street which would be good. The more engaged the community can be with the building the more likely they will be to turn up to their GP appointment or diabetic nurse appointment. |
1.40.43-1.43.40 |
Reflection choosing Medicine Would not want any of her children to do medicine. Comes at a big cost. Have to work 90 hour weeks and tell mother that their babies had died while her friends were traveling and going to parties. Have to go through hard parts of job to get to a role that you like. Came first in paediatrics in UCC please don’t tell Prof Carney/Kearney that she only went to about 2 paeds lectures! But spent a lot of time in the wards. Children are direct and Edith likes that. Interview Ends |
She attended school in St. Maries of the Isle as most children from The Middle Parish did and Came home for lunch.
Played children’s games on the street including: skipping, piggey, release, cat and dog, hide and go seek, thunder up the alley, playing shop, playing house, runaway knock
Speaks of enjoyment and happiness in simple things even in the straightened economic circumstances that prevailed in the communities of her childhood. Discusses the prevalence of pawn shops on how they were relied on.
Recalls joy as a child when they got money for sweets as a treat.
Explains how her father like other men at the time would repair their shoes at home. Her father worked in the Munster Arcade and the family took it in turns to bring him lunch there
Discusses the differences in social class at the time
Speaks about the positive change in men’s role in housework today
Describes an annual family day trip to Youghal for swimming and a picnic.
Talks about shops and the stalls and sellers in the English Market and Coal Quay where food was bought for typical meals including stews, potatoes, tripe and drisheen, skirts and kidneys, offal, offal bones and liver.
Mentions some Christmas traditions in her family.
Remembers hearing men having a regular parting singsong while leaving the pub at night. Recounts a humorous story about musician in the Workingman’s Band pretending to play his instrument in a parade.
Remarks on parents’ strict time keeping in her childhood which was a useful skill as an adult.
Describes what dances in dancehalls were like, especially St. Francis Hall. Gives description of the rules and functioning of the dances as well as learning to dance.
Outlines common diseases in her childhood, including diphtheria which she contracted. Describes symptoms of diphtheria spending time in hospital isolation to cure diphtheria.
Remembers GP Dr Cagney in the dispensary on Grattan Street and the medicines available on site from the pharmacist including Parishes Food. Further describes the dispensary, its waiting room and how the caretaker and pharmacist lived in the building.
Talks about religious devotion, mass going, the rosary, fasting prior to holy communion and confraternity meetings in St. Francis church.
Criticises aspects Catholic religious practice such as fasting (which she describes as manmade), confession and whether children can comprehend their First Holy Communion . Humorous story of priest in the North Cathedral who gave lenient penances for confession.
Describes candy apples made and sold on Gerald Griffin Street.
]]>Mary grew up on in a tenement on Grattan Street where there was a toilet in the yard strong sense of community.
She attended school in St. Maries of the Isle as most children from The Middle Parish did and Came home for lunch.
Played children’s games on the street including: skipping, piggey, release, cat and dog, hide and go seek, thunder up the alley, playing shop, playing house, runaway knock
Speaks of enjoyment and happiness in simple things even in the straightened economic circumstances that prevailed in the communities of her childhood. Discusses the prevalence of pawn shops on how they were relied on.
Recalls joy as a child when they got money for sweets as a treat.
Explains how her father like other men at the time would repair their shoes at home. Her father worked in the Munster Arcade and the family took it in turns to bring him lunch there
Discusses the differences in social class at the time
Speaks about the positive change in men’s role in housework today
Describes an annual family day trip to Youghal for swimming and a picnic.
Talks about shops and the stalls and sellers in the English Market and Coal Quay where food was bought for typical meals including stews, potatoes, tripe and drisheen, skirts and kidneys, offal, offal bones and liver.
Mentions some Christmas traditions in her family.
Remembers hearing men having a regular parting singsong while leaving the pub at night. Recounts a humorous story about musician in the Workingman’s Band pretending to play his instrument in a parade.
Remarks on parents’ strict time keeping in her childhood which was a useful skill as an adult.
Describes what dances in dancehalls were like, especially St. Francis Hall. Gives description of the rules and functioning of the dances as well as learning to dance.
Outlines common diseases in her childhood, including diphtheria which she contracted. Describes symptoms of diphtheria spending time in hospital isolation to cure diphtheria.
Remembers GP Dr Cagney in the dispensary on Grattan Street and the medicines available on site from the pharmacist including Parishes Food. Further describes the dispensary, its waiting room and how the caretaker and pharmacist lived in the building.
Talks about religious devotion, mass going, the rosary, fasting prior to holy communion and confraternity meetings in St. Francis church.
Criticises aspects Catholic religious practice such as fasting (which she describes as manmade), confession and whether children can comprehend their First Holy Communion . Humorous story of priest in the North Cathedral who gave lenient penances for confession.
Describes candy apples made and sold on Gerald Griffin Street.
0.00.00 - 0.00.21 |
Intro |
0.00.21 - 0.02.56 |
Tenement Life and Friendships Mary grew up in 44 Grattan Street. Despite there being tenements it was a magic experience. It was one big happy family, everyone knew and helped one another. All the children played and went to school together. 6 families lived in 44 Grattan Street, all had lots of children and still friends and went to each other’s marriages. Tenements today would be apartments. All had separate entrance but one main toilet in the yard. It was tough but they knew no other experience and everyone was the same. There was one family which was a bit better off than them, but they received the same treatment from them as everyone else and never interfered with their friendship. She still knows where all her neighbours are, and for going to funerals. |
0.02.56 - 0.04.08 |
Typical Day Get up, have breakfast go to St Maries of the Isle school [Bishop Street Cork], and most of Middle Parish went to that school at the time. Came home for lunch and returned to school at 2pm. And finished school at 3pm. Then went home, did the homework and went to play on the street. There were no cars on the street but there was an occasional horse and cart. Played all their games on the street: skipping and pickey. One of Mary’s happiest time because all the children were at the same level- no one was looking down on them. |
0.04.08 - 0.09.58 |
Children’s Games Skipping and Piggey Skipping and piggey with a piggey box or a shoe polish box taken from someone’s house. Mary’s sister-in-law once did not have any chalk to draw the boxes for piggey (or picky or pickey) [hopscotch] and she broke the finger of her mother’s holy statue of the virgin Mary and used it instead of chalk. Mary describes it as innocent, there was no harm involved. The statue was on the landing. They didn’t have the money to buy chalk. Still laugh about that story today. Release- game. Boys and girls were involved. 6 or 10 children all in a square drawn on the ground. One appointed to stay in the box. Someone would shout “Release” and everyone would scatter and hide. And the person in the square had to try to find them. Cat and Dog- game Place a small stick which is pointed a both ends at the edge of a kerb. Then take a bigger stick and hit it so it would fly into the air. The person who hit their stick the furthest would win. It was simple but very enjoyable. Hide and Go Seek- game [doesn’t give a description] Thunder up the Alley- game Lighting papers and put them up the drainpipe/chute and the draught took it up the chute. Mary says they should not have done that but they did, and says that they were bored. Playing Shop and Playing House- game Used the tombstones in the Protestant graveyard [St Peter’s on Grattan Street] They put all their “googles”? [8:10-8:20] on the tombstones and their friends came to “buy” them. They used coloured glass for sweets. Played with neighbours boys and girls. Run Away Knock-game People would claim they would tell Mary’s parents about playing this game but they never did because they knew it was innocent. Reminisces about childhood with friends now. |
0.09.58 - 0.11.21 |
Compares her childhood with that of today Things that she did people might frown on eg. playing on a tombstone. Mentions having a picnic on a gravestone on holidays. Contrasts this with deliberate vandalisation of graves. Wasn’t afraid of graveyard because her mother said mother said that “The living are doing the harm the dead can’t do anything to you”. |
0.11.21 - 0.12.48 |
Food and Meals Porridge for breakfast sometimes called gruel. They had tea and could toast bread in front of fire, no toasters. Doesn’t think there were cornflakes at the time. Simple life but great happiness. “everybody was on the same level” “we had nothing but we had everything” “we had love, happiness, peace and there’s no money can buy these things”, “If you hadn’t it you did without it.” |
0.12.48- 0.15.09 |
Pawn Shops There were loan offices available but Mary said they would try to avoid those because they couldn’t afford it. There was only one man’s wages coming into the family. Pawn shops were “rampant” at the time. Suits for Sunday mass were sent to the pawn on Monday morning and on Thursday when you got your wages you would get the suit back out from the pawn. “that was living in my time”, “no shame in it” People had to survive and get food for their children, and wages were small. “We managed”. Her brother doesn’t agree with her that they were the happiest days of their lives. If they got something it was like Christmas. “We made do with what we had.” |
0.15.09 - 0.16.32 |
A Sunday Treat A penny on Sunday from her father for sweets. There was shop across from where they lived. They could get bonbons and other sweets. 4 farthings in a penny. You could get change from a penny! Thinks most people were happy at the time. |
0.16.32 - 0.18.58 |
Clothes: Repairs and Hand-me-downs Fathers would repair shoes. They would buy leather form Davisons Shop [16:40 or Davidsons?] shop on North Main Street. Used a strip of leather to put heels on shoes using a “Last” [cobbler’s last- a tool similar to the shape of a human foot used to make or repair shoes] tacked leather onto the shoe Used paring knife to remove excess leather. And then “Blackened it with the polish”. Repaired both shoe heels and soles. It was expensive to send them to the shoemaker and they couldn’t afford it. Tough times but great times. |
0.18.58 - 0.22.57 |
Father’s work in the Munster Arcade and his family bringing him Lunch Father, mother 6 children 4 boys and 2 girls lived in one floor of a 5 floor tenement. Dad worked as porter in the Munster Arcade. His job involved work around the shop and delivering parcels. Munster Arcade and Cashes were the best shops in Cork, very expensive. His children used to help their dad. Galvanised pot for tea and bread and butter brought to his work for his lunch. Everyone did something similar for lunches at the time. Couldn’t afford to buy ham. No such thing as going to a café for them. Munster Arcade was an elite shop for people who had big jobs. The staff were very lovely. |
0.22.57 - 0.29.30 |
Father having to Deliver a Tie. Attitude of the Elite. Once a woman from Montenotte or St Luke’s bought a tie for her husband and Mary’s father had to deliver the tie at 5.30pm when he was due to finish at 6pm. Father often spoke, cribbed and cursed about that incident. “That’s the way people lived at that time like. They were up there like and we were down here.” She puts this attitude down to ignorance. “They wanted to be up there looking down on us” but “We were better off because we had what they couldn’t buy: love and contentment.” Describes a world of the haves and have nots. Feels sorry for people who have to pretend that they are well-off rather than being themselves. Describes her thinking as old-fashioned. |
0.26.04 - 0.29.30 |
Change of Attitudes to Work today. Positive Change in role of men in Housework. Thinks everything is “put on a plate” for people- that everything must be done for them and people are not grateful for what they have. Thinks it’s degrading to tell people “but that’s your job.” Men were never expected to do housework or look after children in the past and now it’s changed and she is glad. Fathers would take children for walks, fishing or to matches. But everything else was done by the mother. Is glad that her children turned out well, thinks it was worth her effort raising them when she thinks back. Recalls a recent news story of a 10 year old drunk and questions the role of parents today. |
0.29.30 - 0.30.45 |
Pub Culture Then and Now Describes how when men were paid their wages they would go to the pub, and how women and children were not allowed in pubs. Believes children were not allowed in pubs then. Thinks now women are worse than men from what she hears as regards drinking behaviour. Believes this is unfair on children. |
0.30.45 - 0.33.48 |
Mother bringing them on Trips, Youghal, Swimming Describes parents as salt of the earth. Had to be home at a certain time. Could play on the street as there was very little traffic. They were taken to Fitzgerald’s Park or Lee Fields for an outing One Sunday in August would be trip to Youghal. Train to Youghal. Thousands of people like cattle there. Train stopped near the beach. And came home at 6pm in the evening. People wouldn’t believe you had been to the beach unless you got sunburned. Swam in Youghal. No bathing togs! Sandwiches on the beach. Learned to swim in Youghal. Her children went to the lifesaving clubs. It was essential that time |
0.33.48 - 0.45.47 |
Mother and Making Ends Meet: Pawns, Meals, Food Shopping Mother pawned father’s suit to make ends meet. And not ashamed of it. It was the thing to do to feed the children. Remembers her mother cooking stews and potatoes. Big bowl of potatoes in the centre of the table and everyone for themselves with butter on them! Tripe and Drisheen- good for the stomach. Beautiful dish. The dug of the lamb. Milk, onions, mushrooms, thicken with white sauce, and add potatoes. Mary still makes it as a winter dish. Her sons like it but not her daughters or daughter in laws. It’s still sold in O’Reilly’s in the English Market which was only around the corner from Grattan Street. Kidneys- skirts and kidneys. Kidneys referred to as “sheep’s pooley bags” [pooley: urine cf Sean Beecher Cork Slang: https://corkslang.com/pooley] Offal and offal bones, liver. The main dishes for the working classes. They were not able to afford steak. Today people are too squeamish about offal. English Market: The Chicken Inn. O’Reilly’s Tripe and Drisheen. Everyone had their own butcher. English Market was very basic when Mary was younger. Coal Quay was brilliant on a Saturday. Cornmarket Street used to be full of stalls, clothes, people, tinned food. Annie Punch half way down Cornmarket Street a big woman and a Cork character- “The Mother of the Coal Quay” blond, happy-go-lucky and funny person. Selling second-hand clothes at the time, although now they sell new clothes. It was very popular at Christmas. There’s snobbery about going into the Coal Quay today. Shop on corner Twomeys was popular. People would buy their Christmas Trees and decorations- Annie Punch was the main dealer for these. Saturday morning farmers would come to the city to sell their vegetables. There were also local shops that they supported. |
0.45.47 - 0.48.26 |
Christmas Might not have had a Christmas Tree but Santa Claus always came. They had chicken for Christmas dinner couldn’t afford a turkey Christmas Eve night her own children were frightened by her husband dresses as Santa Clause outside the window. They made their own fun back then. |
0.48.26 - 0.53.02 |
Singsongs and Music Singsongs after the pub which they could hear in bed a night. O’Callaghan’s Pub for the sing song. And opposite the protestant graveyard was the parting place at the end of the night. “Bill Bill” played the trumpet in The Workingman’s Band used to play it at 1am after the pub. The Workingman’s Band The Workingman’s Band played various wind instruments. They would meet in the club and march up Grattan Street and they were meant to turn left up to Patrick Street but one man turned right and people discovered he wasn’t playing his instrument! “They were very happy days” Songs at the singsong: “Mother mo Chroí”, “Kathleen Mavourneen”, “I’ll take you Home Again Kathleen”, “South of the Border- Down Mexico Way” Saturday night was the singsong and they would all make mass on Sunday morning in the Confraternity in St Peter and Paul’s Church for 8am mass or in St Francis church. Mary admired that they all stuck together. The men used take their pint but they never abused or neglected their families. |
0.53.02 - 0.57.46 |
Dancehalls and Father’s Strict Timekeeping Dances were held from 8pm-11pm in St. Francis Hall on Sheares Street. If they arrived home late her father would say: “I said 11 not five past” wouldn’t be allowed go the following week. Feels lucky that they were disciplined in this way. Her father was very strict but that all parents were like that at the time. Gresham Rooms on Maylor Street off Patrick Street was another place for dances, which their father was reluctant to let them attend as it was further away than St. Francis Hall. The Arcadia was an enjoyable place for dances. At dances the men were on one side of the room and women on the other. Women would run to the ladies toilet if an undesirable man came across the dancehall to ask them for a dance. “What a scatter!” Ladies choice: halfway through the night the women would have to ask the men for a dance. You could be reported and removed from the hall for refusing a dance. Lists some bands and singers: Victor Silvester, Clipper Carltons, Joe Mac and the Dixielanders. Terry McCarthy had died the week of this interview was a great singer. |
0.57.46 - 1.00.43 |
Funeral and Memories of Terry McCarthy and Music in Churches Beautiful funeral mass even better than that for a bishop! Large crowd at the funeral. Well organised and felt like being in heaven. When Mary was 80 her family invited Terry McCarthy to sing for her and he sang great old songs not pop music. Thinks that pop music is unsuitable to play at funerals and masses. |
1.00.43 - 1.08.51 |
Dancehalls: Rules, Learning, Locations and no Dances at Lent You couldn’t refuse a dance at a dancehall. And you couldn’t dance unless you were asked. A “legger” was a bad dancer. Types of dances: tango, quick step, foxtrot, and waltz. Learned how to dance at the dancehalls from each other and from a dancing partner at the dance. They would practice dancing at home with the sweeping brush! People would help and teach you when dancing. Some of the men were very proud of their dancing and would be showing off. Could get a glass of milk and buy tea and cake later on. Dance Halls: The Arcadia was the main ballroom in Cork was open 9pm until 2am, near Kent Station. Gresham Rooms. Dance near [Collins] Barracks and near Tivoli. Cork Boat Club on the Marina dancing finished at 2am and then they had to walk home. Once a friend Pauline from the Marsh who was an opera singer sang on the way home from the Marina but a Garda arrived and asked them to leave. Mary describes herself as a “chorus girl” rather than a solo singer! No dancing or dancehalls during Lent. So they met at the same time and went for a walk out the Lee Road. No vandalism at the time. “We made our own enjoyment” They would talk about fellas or sing while on their walk. They all went and came back as group from the Marsh/Middle Parish. |
1.08.51 - 1.12.23 |
Illnesses Measles, whooping cough, scabies, diphtheria- which 3 in her family had, Mary was the carrier. Puts it down to lack of hygiene. Diphtheria was the killer disease aside from TB. Her 3 family members were isolated in St Finbarr’s Hospital. Doctor told her mother to put her uninfected daughter into the hospital with the others to catch diphtheria and recover from it. Mary spent much of her time crying while in isolation and having to look out the window at her parents. It was sad. There were many medical tests. Recalls a neighbour who had polio. |
1.12.23 - 1.15.48
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Dispensary Grattan Street: Doctors and Medicines There were 6 doctors in the local Dispensary on Grattan Street. each area had its own doctor. People from the Marsh/ Middle Parish had Dr Cagney. Dr Cagney was very strict, very cross, “what else can I give you now beside a car?!” he said to Mary’s mother. Dr Cagney was a big man and elderly at the time and his son became a doctor too. [Dr Michael Cagney was his son, see: CFP_SR00762_OConnell_2019] Parishes Food it was like a tonic. Everyone liked the taste of it. You didn’t need a prescription for it. You brought an empty bottle to the dispensary after having visited the doctor who gave you a note with details of your required medicine and your bottle would be filled up accordingly in the dispensing unit. Cod liver oil was also recommended and was got in the Dispensary. Recalls giving her children cod liver oil with an orange to improve the taste. |
1.15.48 - 1.21.08
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Queuing in Dispensary for Doctor. Pharmacist and Caretaker Had to queue up on benches for up to 2 hours. There were 6 doctors, Dr Cagney was theirs. You’d get a prescription and then hand that to the dispensing unit on the way out. Thinks she recalls there being a Dr Fennell there as well. No appointments you just queued up. Beautiful atmosphere in there. She would know people there. Mentions 2 caretakers who lived on site. She knew is as “The Quakers” although she never met them but was aware that they had once lived there. Beautiful courtyard. Two families lived there either side of the front entrance: Morrissy’s (the dispenser) and Lucey’s or Healey’s were there caretakers. The daughters of the Morrissy’s would have been friends with Mary. [see also CFP_SR00760_Morrissy_2019;] Would see their neighbours in the waiting room. Couldn’t afford a private doctor. Different doctors there for different parts of the city. The Cagney’s were very popular, Dr Cagney’s son Michael took over. |
1.21.08 - 1.26.50 |
The Waiting Room could be very full with people. if the 6 doctors were present. Convenient living in Grattan Street as they were across the road. Very few chemists at the time. Everyone hoped they would get Parishes Food illnesses Polio and diphtheria. They weren’t afraid of the diseases, would be sometimes delighted to get sick to avoid school. Whooping cough and chickenpox were normal diseases. Treatment for whooping cough was mostly rest. There was an old saying “we got over the measles” Her brother Paddy was seriously affected by diphtheria. Symptoms of diphtheria You felt like your throat was coming up through your mouth. Thinks about how her parents coped with having children in St Finbarr’s isolation ward when they had no transport. |
1.26.50 - 1.32.00
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Christmas Party and ‘Simple Living’ of the Past There was a Christmas party for all the children with a bottle of watered down rasa/raza (raspberry cordial) and sweets. Everybody was on the same level except for a few who were slightly better off but they All going to the same school St Mary’s of the Isle. Great neighbourliness. Thinks they were very lucky and that their parents kept them “on the straight and narrow”. Says there was a lot of problems alcohol and drink but not in her family- suggests some people may not have had enough money to pay for food due to alcoholism. John O’Shea [likely the same O’Shea interviewed CFP00774] wrote a book about the “Red City” the Northside of Cork. Much of the book Mary agreed with and identifies with eg. box cars, collecting wood and making bundles out of it to sell it. “What we had to do to make a couple of bob” eg the Pawn shops. People were happy to live that way she thinks. Simple living. |
1.32.00 - 1.33.25
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Quakers and Grattan Street The Quakers did live in Grattan Street, it was their religion. Mary says her daughter-in-law is working in Grattan Street. It was a lovely building. |
1.33.25 - 1.34.19
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School behind Dispensary St. Francis Boys School was at the back of the dispensary. “Rowdy Boys College” was what it was called at the time. Thinks that there is a private school in there at the moment. |
1.34.19 - 1.35.04 |
Happiness and Gratitude Reiterates that they were the happiest days of her life games as children, made their own enjoyment and is grateful for her good parents. And feels sorry for people today who aren’t as lucky. |
1.35.04 - 1.36.31
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LDF Local Defence Force Recalls the LDF (Local Defence Force) marching and as being part of the army and they wore berets. |
1.36.31 - 0.00.00
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Attitude towards the dispensary Dr Cagney lived on Summerhill North. His son took over. Mark Cagney the radio presenter is related to that family. Dr Cagney looked after Mary’s mother Mary. Says Dr Cagney senior was abrupt but had respect for the elderly which is not always the case today, thinks that sometimes elderly people can be treated as just a number. |
1.39.20 - 1.44.48
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The Franciscans They were friendly, spiritual and gave people time. People knew the Franciscans personally they weren’t snobs and you could invite them into your house for tea. The Franciscans were out more. Many people in Grattan Street were in the choir in St Francis. They also hosted a Christmas party for the children. Recalls them being funnier and more down to earth than regular priests. Went to mass in St Francis. St Peter and Paul’s was their parish church to which they went once a month for the confraternity meeting for rosary and prayers on Monday night and the following Sunday there was a confraternity mass at 8am on Sunday. Had to be fasting from the night before to receive holy communion. They had breakfast then after mass. On some Sundays they might have a rasher and egg- their father would get priority for a good breakfast. On Sunday would do their homework, go to Fitzgerald’s Park, Lee Fields to the outdoor baths. |
1.44.48 - 1.48.22
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Religion: Fasting Rules and Rejecting Man-made Religious Rules Today Fasted before Holy Communion and for Good Friday, they didn’t eat meat which was easy as they didn’t have much meat, but it is harder now for her to abstain from meat. Doesn’t fast on Good Friday anymore, she would eat meat. She has “no scruples” anymore about eating meat on Friday. “It don’t bother me” She feels she has “did my bit” and “we did more than our bit”, they didn’t have to do what they did. She considers these rules and restrictions to be manmade laws. She decides for herself now whether to eat before communion or on Fridays. Would prefer to go back to a basic, simple religion which would include going to mass and a few prayers at night, but without all the dogmatic things and novenas. Thinks that some people in the past probably didn’t bother following all those rules. People felt they were guilty of sin and felt it and went to confession. |
1.48.22 - 1.55.12
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Confession: Unfair on Children and Story of a Lenient Priest Mary used to teach young “itinerant” or traveller children for their First Holy Communion. Brought them for their first confession to the North Cathedral. The children were speaking so loudly that she could hear their sins and recalls one of them saying “I stucked out me tongue at me nanny” and thinks it was wrong that children were made to feel guilt and sin about something so small. People would say “you’d go to hell”. She thinks this was very wrong. She thinks that she took these rules to heart and Jesus never expected people to behave as they were required to. “Everything we did was a sin” “We went to confession shaking” “We came up the hard way, we were guilty of stupid things.” And says that their parents were the same way. They were chastised at home. Kissing a boy was considered to be a sin, but she doesn’t believe it was a sin in retrospect. Priest in North Cathedral who was reputed to say “God bless you my child” in response to any confessed sin no matter how grave. There used to be queues for this Fr Hart. Says that she would know herself whether something was wrong or right. Some people took sins too far, and some people would stay away from confession for years because they were so afraid of what their sin was even though it was not that serious. People went to Fr Hart in the North Chapel/ North Cathedral because of his easier approach. |
1.55.12 - 1.56.22
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No Sex before Marriage There was “very clean living before we got married”. There was never sex involved before her marriage. And she believes this was the right way. |
1.56.22 - 2.01.24
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First Holy Communion and Children Understanding Religion Was teaching the Northside traveller children in St Mary’s Cathedral (North Cathedral) as she was in the Legion of Mary on Brown Street. Doesn’t think that children really understand their religion when they are so young so they should wait until they are older, maybe 12 years old before they make their first holy communion. Recalls her own First Holy Communion as being very serious. Got dressed and had a veil and went to a photographer on Windmill Road. Everything was so respectful and disciplined. Mary returns to discussing the funeral mass for Terry McCarthy to compare the beauty and respect of that mass. Her own communion dress was made for her, as most people did at the time. Visited all her cousins for her First Holy Communion and “got the few bob” received money from family members and went home to count it on the table. She gave her parents some of the money. Thinks today that children make about 1,000 euro on their First Holy Communion and that this has become its real purpose and meaning. The church is full for Holy Communion day but the next Sunday they are not present. Mary made her own communion in South Chapel because she was going to St Mary’s of the Isle School. |
2.01.24 - 2.07.46
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Grateful for her Happy Memories and Good Friends Recalls her happiness and friends from school. Friendship, respect for parents, teachers and friends were her memories of the past. Still in contact with those old friends. Sincere friendships and bonds. “Always keep your friends” is what Mary recommends. She meets her friends to reminisce and recall things that she might have forgotten. She would never dismiss anything that happened years ago. [02.04.10 ] “I’ll tell you something now like” when she can’t sleep things from the past come back to her and she thinks about them for hours. Feels lucky she has these lovely memories to fall back on. Very simple living and they shopped locally. |
2.05.16-2.07.55
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Shops, Sweets, Candy Apples on Gerald Griffin Street The milk emporium the daily lived second-next-door to them and they sold milk and eggs, butter. Tuckshop was underneath for sweets. There were shops on every corner, you could go into “Candy apples was a big thing at the time” There was a place near the North Cathedral on Gerald Griffin Street where a woman would stick a lollipop stick into an eating apple, cover it in sugar and put it into a holder to sell it. Mary says that she didn’t expect to have been speaking for so long. Mary asks the interviewer what time it is, he responds that it’s after 1pm. One son calls to her for dinner but he will “help himself”. |
2.07.46- 2.07.55
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Outro |
2.07.55
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Interview Ends |
Speaks of the poverty in the Middle Parish which necessitated buying goods on credit and selling clothes and jewellery to pawnshops. Mentions pawn locations. Mentions bringing empty bottles to shops to fill them with milk.
Discusses the conditions of the tenement houses in the Middle Parish including the sanitation arrangements such as outdoor toilets and the use of newspaper as toilet paper, he also mentions heating issues including timber, turf and coal which was available via a voucher scheme. Further discusses cooking, washing in the tenements including the introduction of gas and electricity. Also mentions medicines for lice and worms administered at home.
Says that boys and girls played different games separately when he was growing up. Mentions some of these games in more detail.
Discusses foods (including tripe and drisheen, pig’s tongue, Connie Dodgers) meal routines and the shops where food was purchased. Liam and his mother brought lunch to his father where he worked on the docks.
Returns to the topic of corner shops and shopping and the types of food available there, further comparing this to supermarkets today.
Speaks of the death of his mother and the change in living circumstances that this entailed.
Describes getting a vaccination in the dispensary, what it was like inside and who worked there.
Mentions fights outside bars at night time.
Talks about air raid shelters built in Cork city during the Second World War, what they looked like and where they were located.
]]>Liam Ó hUigín: Grattan Street, Healthcare, The Marsh
Liam grew up on Henry Street in The Marsh and recalls playing football on Grattan Street which was busy and full of activity with businesses, pubs, shops a fire station, barber shops and tenements. He discusses some shops and games in more detail.
Speaks of the poverty in the Middle Parish which necessitated buying goods on credit and selling clothes and jewellery to pawnshops. Mentions pawn locations. Mentions bringing empty bottles to shops to fill them with milk.
Discusses the conditions of the tenement houses in the Middle Parish including the sanitation arrangements such as outdoor toilets and the use of newspaper as toilet paper, he also mentions heating issues including timber, turf and coal which was available via a voucher scheme. Further discusses cooking, washing in the tenements including the introduction of gas and electricity. Also mentions medicines for lice and worms administered at home.
Says that boys and girls played different games separately when he was growing up. Mentions some of these games in more detail.
Discusses foods (including tripe and drisheen, pig’s tongue, Connie Dodgers) meal routines and the shops where food was purchased. Liam and his mother brought lunch to his father where he worked on the docks.
Returns to the topic of corner shops and shopping and the types of food available there, further comparing this to supermarkets today.
Speaks of the death of his mother and the change in living circumstances that this entailed.
Describes getting a vaccination in the dispensary, what it was like inside and who worked there.
Mentions fights outside bars at night time.
Talks about air raid shelters built in Cork city during the Second World War, what they looked like and where they were located.
0.00.00 - 0.00.31 |
intro |
0.00.31 - 0.02.55 |
Memories of Grattan Street and surrounding area Shops and Buildings Grattan Street was a busy street with many businesses. Most important was the fire brigade. When the new St Francis Church was being built (Broad Lane church as it was called by people in the Middle Parish) the fire brigade amalgamated with Sullivan’s Quay and the priest of Old Broad Lane church moved into the old fire brigade building while new church was being built. Children missed the excitement of the fire brigade. Very vibrant street. 6 pubs: Kellehers, Crosses, Landers, Carrols (later called the Tostal Inn), Ramble Inn (owned by Mrs Brick) two Murphys public houses near Broad Lane which runs from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Shops and sweet Shops: The Rodisses, The People’s Dairy, The M Laundries, 2 Gents Hairdressing Saloons (called barber shops): Leahy’s and Keanes. Where the Community Centre is now was called Mechanics Hall, because the mechanics had a union and meetings there. Later it was known as Matt Talbot Hall. There were lots of tenement houses in the area. [Liam’s phone rings.] |
0.03.06 - 0.05:04 |
Tenement Houses, Lanes, playing in Graveyard Where Patrick Hanely Buildings are now there were tenement houses. Liam only barely remembers them as they were being demolished in the late 1940s and early 1950s. They were derelict sites for a while, which was his playground. St Peter’s Cemetery down Peter Church Lane, playing among the headstones, and hiding or planking cigarettes. Shops: Manning’s Shops at corner of Henry Street and Grattan Street, Mrs Mullins at corner of Coleman’s Lane. From Coleman’s Lane to Adelaide Street there were 4 or 5 houses there with 4 or 5 families in each house. Remembers Shinkwin? Family, the Dineens. When they moved out they went to Gurranabraher, Ballyphehane and the suburbs in Ballincollig. |
0.05:04 - 0.06.56 |
Childhood Games and Activities Very little Traffic on the roads at the time. Liam was living in Henry Street round the corner from Grattan Street. Recalls soccer matches from one end of the street to the other and wouldn’t see a car. Friends who came from Blarney Street or Barrack Street couldn’t understand why the streets were so wide and loved it for a game of football. If a woman with a pram approached while they were playing football they would pick up the ball or if they played near the Mercy Hospital they knew that they should keep quiet without anyone telling them and Liam thinks that has changed today. Many of his friends live in Grattan Street and everyone was a happy family until there was a row and they had a battering match with “stones down the quarry”. They used to swim by the Mercy Hospital by the ladder. And then on to ‘the pipe’ up the Lee Fields and then the weir and every second day they had the Lee Baths one day for boys one for girls. Today it’s mixed. |
0.06.56 - 0.11.32 |
Poverty-Buying on Credit and using Pawn Shops Could get messages or shopping on tick or on credit. Milk, bread, quarter (pound) of cheese. There was no bottle of milk you had to bring in your own jug. If you ran out of money the shopkeeper would write it into a book and at the end of the week you could pay it off. A few people could afford not to be ‘on tick’. There were a few pawn shops on the North Main Street one near north Gate Bridge Jones, another across from Coleman’s Lane called Twomeys. There may have been more. There was one at the bottom of Shandon street owned by Jones as well. There were 18 or 19 pawn shops around the city one at bottom of Patrick’s Hill, one by fire brigade station on Sullivan’s Quay, two on Barrack Street. People would pawn clothes. Tradesmen would pawn trowels on Monday morning. Often for drink/ alcohol. Wives would pawn husband’s suit and take it back the following Saturday for going to mass. Nearly everyone used the pawn it was the forerunner to the Credit Union. If you pawned a pair of shoes for 10 shillings, you got a docket and you had to pay 11 shillings to get it back. Wives would be stressed making sure they could get the husband’s suit back in time for mass. It was a thriving business. If you didn’t claim your pawned items after a certain period it was put for sale in the window. Some people would pawn things openly. Other people would hide it under a shawl, or pretend to be pawning something for someone else. People felt ashamed. Almost everyone was scraping a living. Even some shopkeepers looked after people who may not have had enough to pay at the end of the week. At Christmas the shopkeeper would give you a present of a Christmas Cake or Christmas Candle depending on what type of customer you were. |
0.11.32 - 0.13.02 |
Work, Pawns, Showing off Wealth Liam doesn’t remember what or whether his family pawned. Liam’s dad was a docker which was paid on a daily basis and his mother was shrewd enough to put away some money every day. He knew that relations of his pawned things though. Bracelets, wedding ring, engagement ring, rarely a watch very few people had watches. Liam knew someone who went to work in Dagenham and he came back a Dagenham Yank with a different accent “a twang” and a watch. He walked into centre of Henry Street, pulled up his sleeve and pretended to be winging his watch while looking at Shandon clock tower just to show off his watch. |
0.13.02 - 0.13.46 |
Telephone Phones were also very scarce. One shop in Henry Street had a phone and there was a queue there for people wanting to use it. There was another phone booth by Vincent’s Bridge coming down Sunday’s Well. Liam remembers playing there and being afraid to go in to answer the phone. |
0.13.46 - 0.18.37 |
Tenement conditions, Emigrants, Social Comparison, Fuel Poverty Laneways around there: Philip’s Lane from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Skiddy’s Castle from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Coleman’s Lane, Peter Church Lane (now Avenue), Broad Lane (at the back of the church), all on to North Main Street from Grattan Street. Conditions were basic looking back with an outdoor toilet. One family on Henry Street had ten families with one cold tap in back yard and one toilet between them. They had to clean out every morning and bring an enamel bucket upstairs every morning. Had an inferiority complex about relations coming home from England. The relatives would be dressed up in finery but later Liam discovered they were also badly off but made the effort when coming home. The story of someone’s uncle who came back from America after 40 years and the family had moved out to the suburbs and they had a barbeque. And the uncle used the toilet inside the house. He said he used to eat inside and the toilet was outside and now it is reversed! They used newspaper instead of toilet paper. Turf and timber blocks for fuel for heating which father got going out the Straight Road. Some people got a voucher for a peck of coal which might only be a large shovel full. Some families got vouchers for free shoes like in the shop Furlongs in South Main Street (owner may have been lord mayor later) Liam wasn’t sure where the vouchers came from- maybe the Health Board. Doesn’t think there was any child benefit. Maybe the Sick Poor would provide the vouchers. They would visit people and the people would try to hide that they were calling. |
0.18.37 - 0.22.42 |
Cooking, Bathing, Hygiene and Medicines No cooking facilities only the fire. Mother would cook pot of potatoes on the fire and then transfer to the hob. 1948 no electricity in Henry Street at the time. When they got gas in mother told him not to leave kitchen door open to hide it from Liam’s grandmother who lived upstairs and was the real tenant. It wasn’t an oven it was a thing on a stand with two rings on it. Older people were afraid of being gassed. Saturday night the galvanised bath was put in front of fire with hot water and washed, and if you were the last person in the bath the water would be dirty. And then the children were lined up against the wall to get a weekly does of cod liver oil, or Brutlax, California syrup of figs, Senna? All because of worms. Some newspaper put on the table and hair combed with fine tooth comb to get rid of lice- it was an ordeal. Brutlax was like chocolate but a laxative. Milk of magnesia used as well. Given those every Saturday night to prevent you getting sick. Some of them had a terrible taste. If someone got sick taken to the dispensary. |
0.22.42 - 0.24.12 |
Children’s Games Different for boys and girls Spent much time in the derelict site where Patrick Hanley Buildings are now, used to connect to Cove street. They had battering matches with stones and they were going to the Mercy Hospital 4 or 5 times a week. They used to play chasing hiding from the nuns around the Mercy Hospital. Could bring a spinning top and hit is with a whip up and down the road without fear of traffic. Girls would tie a rope to a pole and swing around it and skipping as well. |
0.24.12 - 0.31.57 |
Food, traditions, routines. Lunch at Work Porridge for breakfast which you eat if you were given. His grandchildren now have a choice of 5 cereals. Goodie- bread and milk mixed maybe with sugar sprinkled on it. Some shops on North Main Street like Simcox or Currans Bakery you could get bread wrapped in soft tissue paper which was kept in a drawer at home for when visitors came to use for the toilet because it was better than newspaper. Potatoes and cabbage. Father loved pigs meat: pig’s heat, backbone, pig’s tail, crubeens. Liam still loves a crubeen except for the trouble of cooking of it, and it’s messy to eat. Mother was reared around Vicar Street. Barrack Street, Blarney Street, Shandon Street: that’s the way people lived because there was little Gurranabraher built and Ballyphehane wasn’t built yet. Tripe and drisheen is still a favourite, can get from Reilly’s in the market. Tripe cut into little pieces, with cornflower, onions, “white sauce”, drisheen put in later. Tripe and drisheen would be weekly. Liam loved the pig’s tongue because it was lean. Set day for each food. Liam’s dad was a docker and he would cut the ear off the pig’s head, put it in a sandwich with bread and butter, wrap in newspaper and that was his lunch. He wasn’t the only one. Thinks tripe is from sheep’s stomach. Blood in the drisheen. Connie Dodgers for Lent allowed one meal and two collations. Con Lucey said you could have a biscuit with a cup of tea as a collation. Liam thinks it was Larry McCarthy’s bakery that made a biscuit twice as big as the normal one. For Lent had to fast every Friday and couldn’t eat meat, except for people of a certain age. Religion was a big thing for people at the time. Lent didn’t bother Liam’s dad. Dockers worked hard. Where Elysian Tower is now, where the Eglinton Baths were Liam went with his mother and a bowl of soup and bread and butter and a tea towel over it. The dockers sat on the kerb eating their soup and sandwiches and they were all black with dirt no washing of hands. All the work was shovelling coal, Liam worked there for 2 days and had enough of it- nearly wanted a small shovel to fill the shovel he had. His dad was small but very wiry and strong. “They were marvellous people” |
0.31.57- 0.37.05 |
Pastimes, Shops and Opening Hours Dad spent time in the pub maybe too much. People listened to the radio or sat in front of the fire reading the newspaper. Some people with go hunting or play football or hurling. Liam plays golf now but at the time it was only for the elite doctors and solicitors. Liam’s dad never stood inside a golf club. Liam was 10 when his mother died she would offer him tripe and drisheen or a creamy cake for dinner and he would choose the cake. The corner shops are gone now because of the supermarkets. Corner shops on Henry Street were: Bode’s?, Mannings, Horrigan’s, Dermot’s on Adelaide Street. Dermot’s was first all-night shop in the city- wouldn’t be there during the day. Open from 8pm to 8am. A salesman in coca cola told Liam that Dermot lived on Pope’s Quay and owned a Morris Minor car and he drove it to Adelaide Street 7 days a week and the car was ten years old and there wasn’t 5,000 miles on it because that was all the driving he did. In Ballypheane Liam sees people carrying lots of bags after shopping in Aldi on Tory Top Road. Liam remembers going to Dermot’s for quarter pound of cheese (3 or 4 slices), half pound of tea, 2 eggs, there were no fridges so you bought and you ate them there was little storage. Dermot would put greaseproof paper over the blade and cut perfectly a few slices of cheese which had come from a timber box. Girls were interested in the box for making cots for dolls. There was no variety of cheese available just the one block. Sugar was available in quarter pounds rather than big bags. Men coming home from the pub would be sent back out to get a box of cocoa or milk from Dermot’s. There was no one on the street after 12 o’clock unlike today when there’s lots of people around after nightclubs. |
0.37.05 - 0.39.00 |
Death of Mother and Family Living Arrangements When Liam’s mom died his aunt who had 6 children moved upstairs from Liam. She has 5 daughters and 1 son and the son died of meningitis at 4 years old. Liam’s grandfather was dead. Aunt moved to grandmother in Vicar Street to look after her. Liam was going to school in Mardyke, father’s place during the day, went to grandmother’s in Vicar Street for food and washing and then back to the Marsh to sleep. He skipped school for almost 3 months (‘on the lang’) until the school wrote to his dad, who gave him a lecture. He was nearly 14 then and on the verge of leaving school anyway. |
0.39.00 - 0.44.13 |
The Dispensary now Grattan Street Health Centre, Tinsmith and Nurse Lots of cases of meningitis. Everyone in Cork used to go to the Dispensary. Everyone now in their 70s seems to remember Dr Cagney. He would give a bottle of coloured water. If you forgot your bottle you had to go to Mr Gamble the tinsmith in Grattan Street. He made ponnies, gallons, billycans. But when plastic came in there was no need for tinsmiths. Remembers getting injection or vaccination from Dr Cagney, thinks it may have been for smallpox but is not sure. He dreaded the needles for the syringes which were “like six-inch nails”. You went through a gate, into a yard and there were steps leading up to the entrance. A grey-haired woman maybe called Mrs O’Keefe. There were benches like in a church. There were hatches. You queued up for the doctor. And the hatches gave you the medicine. Other place for illness was Mercy Hospital. Recalls a midwife Nurse Anthony who called to people’s houses. Liam thought when younger than it was the midwife who brought babies on her bicycle. Aunt lived on Thomas Street (a continuation of Peter’s Street) to the back entrance of the Mercy Hospital where the “dead house” was where Liam’s mother was laid out. Remembers the Quirkes and the Horgans, Glandons?, McCarthys living there too and they all moved out when Mercy took over the whole block. Liam doesn’t remember playing around inside the Dispensary. |
0.44.13 - 0.45.35 |
Making vs Buying Lunch People who worked in Dispensary didn’t live in area. Doesn’t think people make lunches for work anymore. In modern day people go to shops like Spar for sandwiches and rolls. Wives/mothers used to make “lunches for them in the morning” for children who were working and there was a can with milk, tea and sugar. |
0.45.35 - 0.46.14 |
Families Living in Dispensary Grattan Street Thinks Mrs O’Keefe was only working there, possibly the cleaner. Mrs O’Keefe may not have been her name. Liam doesn’t think they were charging people in the dispensary. |
0.46.14 - 0.50.55 |
Attitude to health, Pubs, Fights, Market Gardens, Childhood Mischief There was no such thing as being left on a trolley. The Mercy hospital was the only hospital Liam knew, and every child in the Marsh went there at least once after a fall, hit with a stone on the head, a few stitches. Although, Liam’s aunt lost a son to meningitis. Didn’t have the medicines we have today. They were simple times but he doesn’t remember going hungry ever. Lots of pubs on Grattan Street and people were spending lots of time and money which put a burden on the family. Saturday night on Grattan Street there would usually be a fight, stripped to the waist. Bonfire night used to be a great night but no longer. No awareness of mental health. Called the Lee Road the Madhouse Road. First coloured person Liam ever saw was on Sheares Street and when they saw him they called him “Johnny the Black” and they got a chase. A chase was very important for children at the time. Fisherman on Wise’s Quay near Vincent’s Bridge the children used to throw stones in to frighten the fish away and the fisherman would chase them. Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday the market gardeners would bring their produce on horse and carts to the Coal Quay and the shopkeepers would come to buy vegetables off them. Liam and the children would steal (“knock off”) some cabbage and carrots. “Oliver Twist was only trotting after us”. |
0.50.55 - 0.51.15
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Sweets You’d get a few sweets in Woolworths from the girls who worked there, to prevent them trying to steal them! |
0.51.15 - 0.55.10
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WW2 Air Raid Shelters in Cork Three air raid shelters on Sheare’s Street, 2 in Henry Street and maybe a few in Grattan Street, at least one. O’Connell on Sheares Street was in charge of air raid shelter no 3. Fear of being bombed by German’s during World War 2 mass concrete buildings rather than underground. Liam has photograph of an air raid shelter on Patrick Street outside the Victoria Hotel and a photograph of it being knocked down. The son of the man who had the key to air raid shelter no 3 would rent out the space to old children if it was raining and they wanted to use it to play cards. In the 1940s. he lived at corner of Moore Street and Sheares Street. They were being demolished in 1948 or 1949. Air raid shelter remains inside the door of Elizabeth Fort and there are 2 on the grounds of the South Infirmary (Victoria Hospital), they’ve now been converted to stores. If you stand at bottom of South Terrace and you look up at “Rock Savage” on top of the hill at the back of the South Infirmary you can see it protruding out. Liam remembers the LDF became the FCA and that their “top coats” were good as blankets during the winter as you could put your hands into the pockets. Nearly every house had an army coat on the bed. Everyone was issued with a gas mask, Liam has one from a friend of his. Everyone had to be measured for their gas mask at the city hall or in schools. Liam’s dad wasn’t not in the LDF but his uncle was and it was his coat that was on the bed. |
0.55.10 - 0.59.24 |
Grattan Street, Dispensary, surrounding lanes, Terence MacSwiney connection Grattan Street was busy, vibrant street, always something happening there. Can’t believe seeing the traffic there now. Liam took a photograph of Prince Charles stopped in traffic outside the plaque to Patrick Hanely Buildings. The Dispensary was a historical place, there was a time when Grattan Street was a river and Meeting House Lane from North Main Street (at the side of Bradleys) was the entrance to any of the buildings on Grattan Street. Henry Street was known as Penrose Quay. On Adelaide Street at the back of where Curran’s Restaurant was there was a square called Penrose Square- after the Penrose Family that lived in Tivoli. If you come down Coleman’s Lane from Grattan Street and enter North Main Street up on the wall there are four plaques for the building where Terence MacSwiney was born. People think he was born in Blackpool because they confuse him with Tomas MacCurtain. Terence married one of the Murphy brewers. Liam is very interested in Terence MacSwiney and loves talking about him, maybe because he comes from the same area in Cork. |
0.59.24 - 0.59.41
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Outro. Interview Ends. |
Recalls as a teenager being told by a doctor who was smoking to give up smoking. Comments on how widespread smoking was at the time. Humorous story about asking a Garda for a cigarette.
Story of Cork character ‘Kick the Bucket’, a young man who was convinced he was going to die very soon but lived to be 81.
Speaks of playing on the streets of The Marsh and The Middle Parish as a child and how they would go to the Mercy Hospital if they were injured playing football. Describes rival groups of boys from Grattan Street and the Coal Quay having fruit throwing fights.
Describes how as a child he used a skull from a tomb in St Peter’s Cemetery to use as a Jack O Lantern. Returns to the topic of underage smoking and acquiring cigarettes from adults.
Explains a form of recycling where he collected empty glass bottles to return to a shop in exchange for money. He used the money for cigarettes and matches or to pay for a cinema ticket. Recalls Dermot’s Cake shop on Adelaide Street.
Talks about his passion for fishing, avoiding the bailiff and selling his fish catch to local fish and chip shops. Tells of his fishing rob being confiscated by the bailiff and retrieving it.
Mentions children taking sweets from a shop on Sheares Street without paying for them.
Discusses income inequality and buying clothes on the Coal Quay. Explains how he made floats for fishing from wine bottle corks made by his dad’s friend for Woodford Bourne’s on Sheares Street.
Reflects on crime and safety in the city centre and tells the story of a house being burgled where the owner shouted out that he had nothing worth stealing.
Outlines some long standing Grattan Street residents’ concerns about their neighbourhood today including students, student parties, students drinking on the street, cark parks, bus routes, student accommodation, Edel House, increased traffic, methodone clinics, community Gardaí and the HSE’s use of buildings in the city centre.
Remembers Shawlies on the Coal Quay, including his own grandmother. Describes the products sold there and farmers bringing vegetables with dirt on them by horse and cart. Mentions Ryan’s Pub on North Main Street and how the farmers might frequent it.
Speaks of the simple food and meals he ate, and how his shoes were pawned but bought back in time to wear for mass.
Recalls the violence and fear of St Joseph’s School and wanting to leave to go fishing. Speaks of his preference for St. Francis School where he was not beaten and learned a lot. Outlines getting food and cocoa in the morning at school. Tells the story of a father confronting a Presentation Brother for an excessive beating to his son.
Talks about food and his mother making bread and mentions other foods and treats from his grandmother.
Speaks about fatal diseases in the past including mumps. To receive medication in the dispensary you had to bring your own empty bottle.
Speaks about the work of the Middle Parish Community Centre especially in relation to addiction. This prompts Joe to speak of his own story of dealing with his alcohol addiction, the risks alcohol posed to his health, liver disease, his desire to see his grandchildren grow up and his happiness now he has successfully remained sober for many years.
Mentions the Barrett family who lived in the dispensary building.
]]>Joe recalls the dispensary on Grattan Street, its waiting room and the names of the doctors who worked there. He describes in detail his visit there to get a vaccination as a child. Discusses medical treatments administered at home by his mother including those for fleas and head lice.
Recalls as a teenager being told by a doctor who was smoking to give up smoking. Comments on how widespread smoking was at the time. Humorous story about asking a Garda for a cigarette.
Story of Cork character ‘Kick the Bucket’, a young man who was convinced he was going to die very soon but lived to be 81.
Speaks of playing on the streets of The Marsh and The Middle Parish as a child and how they would go to the Mercy Hospital if they were injured playing football. Describes rival groups of boys from Grattan Street and the Coal Quay having fruit throwing fights.
Describes how as a child he used a skull from a tomb in St Peter’s Cemetery to use as a Jack O Lantern. Returns to the topic of underage smoking and acquiring cigarettes from adults.
Explains a form of recycling where he collected empty glass bottles to return to a shop in exchange for money. He used the money for cigarettes and matches or to pay for a cinema ticket. Recalls Dermot’s Cake shop on Adelaide Street.
Talks about his passion for fishing, avoiding the bailiff and selling his fish catch to local fish and chip shops. Tells of his fishing rob being confiscated by the bailiff and retrieving it.
Mentions children taking sweets from a shop on Sheares Street without paying for them.
Discusses income inequality and buying clothes on the Coal Quay. Explains how he made floats for fishing from wine bottle corks made by his dad’s friend for Woodford Bourne’s on Sheares Street.
Reflects on crime and safety in the city centre and tells the story of a house being burgled where the owner shouted out that he had nothing worth stealing.
Outlines some long standing Grattan Street residents’ concerns about their neighbourhood today including students, student parties, students drinking on the street, cark parks, bus routes, student accommodation, Edel House, increased traffic, methodone clinics, community Gardaí and the HSE’s use of buildings in the city centre.
Remembers Shawlies on the Coal Quay, including his own grandmother. Describes the products sold there and farmers bringing vegetables with dirt on them by horse and cart. Mentions Ryan’s Pub on North Main Street and how the farmers might frequent it.
Speaks of the simple food and meals he ate, and how his shoes were pawned but bought back in time to wear for mass.
Recalls the violence and fear of St Joseph’s School and wanting to leave to go fishing. Speaks of his preference for St. Francis School where he was not beaten and learned a lot. Outlines getting food and cocoa in the morning at school. Tells the story of a father confronting a Presentation Brother for an excessive beating to his son.
Talks about food and his mother making bread and mentions other foods and treats from his grandmother.
Speaks about fatal diseases in the past including mumps. To receive medication in the dispensary you had to bring your own empty bottle.
Speaks about the work of the Middle Parish Community Centre especially in relation to addiction. This prompts Joe to speak of his own story of dealing with his alcohol addiction, the risks alcohol posed to his health, liver disease, his desire to see his grandchildren grow up and his happiness now he has successfully remained sober for many years.
Mentions the Barrett family who lived in the dispensary building.
0.00.00 - 0.00.30 |
Intro |
0.00.30 - 0.01.41 |
Memories of dispensary and Vaccination Dispensary was a beautiful looking building especially as it was surrounded by tenements. Barrett family were caretakers. 6 GPs worked there and remembers 4: Dr Galvin (low-sized woman), Dr Jimmy Young (who played hurling for Cork), Dr Kiely (male), Dr Michael Cagney his family’s GP, delivered him and his brother at home. Waiting room was like church seats. His mother usually brought with him. |
0.01.41 - 0.06.06 |
Vaccination in the Dispensary Grattan Street Vaccination: his dad brought him. Front door was in Grattan Street. Queue of boys outside. None of the boys who came out looked happy, they all suffered from the fear and pain. Joe was about 8 years old. Instrument doctor had was like a branding iron for cattle or a bolt. The needle was the size of a nail. Dad held his wrist and arm very tight. His dad brought him for ice-cream afterwards. When he was 12 there was another round of vaccines and he was determined not to take them until he discovered they were like sugar cubes not needles. |
0.06.06 - 0.09.24 |
Fleas and Head Lice treatment Everyone had fleas and headlice, but some of his friends still deny that they had it possibly out of shame. Everyone left their doors open, as they had nothing to rob. Dads got paid on Friday night and there was a small party at the weekend- raspberry and crisps in the pub. Went to the dispensary to get prescription for head lice. When mother cut his hair she put it in newspaper and threw it in fire and you could hear fleas and lice banging. “Scabs and bits of hair here and there” You could see dead fleas and lice on the back of other boys collars in school. DDT “defestor” Mrs Shinnick? Pharmacist gave them a green bottle which smelled. The liquid burned the scalp. Fine tooth comb to get the dead lice out. The smell would last for hours. And in school the following day people would recognise it and know you had had lice. |
0.09.24 - 0.10.53 |
Smoking Doctor trying to get him to give up smoking Dr Jimmy Young (or maybe Dr Cagney) moved to a private clinic on the South Mall. Joe was smoking as a young teenager. If he was caught a neighbour would kick him in the arse before telling his dad. His dad never hit him but would put his hands on his belt which was sufficient threat. Dad brought him to Dr Young to be told how bad smoking was. And while he was telling Joe to give up cigarettes he was smoking a Woodbine cigarette at the time. People smoked everywhere except church. |
0.10.53 - 0.12.07 |
Dared to ask Garda for a cigarette Doesn’t drink or smoke now. Had to take a dare when asked by a friend. Friend dared him to ask a Garda for a cigarette. Garda kicked him in the arse. Walked like John Wayne for a week! |
0.12.07 - 0.15.30 |
‘Kick the Bucket’: hypochondriac ‘character’ in Dispensary A head cold was serious at times. Practically impossible to get a house call from a doctor. So they would be bundled up in sheets like a mummy and transported to the dispensary. Mother saw a man in the waiting room nicknamed “Kick the Bucket” because he was a hypochondriac convinced he was going to die soon. Joe saw him as he got older and went to the doctor on his own. Kick the Bucket died at 81 and the news spread faster than the fire at the Opera House or Jennings. |
0.15.30 - 0.15.46 |
End of Dispensary After a while doctors got their private surgeries and A&Es accident and Emergencies opened. The dispensary sort of dwindled out. |
0.15.46 - 0.16.42 |
Grattan Street injuries Playing as Children Lots of memories from around Grattan Street area. Born on Devonshire Street near Pat MacDonald Paints, and there was a big population living in the Marsh. More than 100 children playing on the streets around Peter Street and Grattan Street. Alleyways, where car parks are now, there were their soccer pitches. They counted 120 potholes in their soccer pitch, big enough to fall knee deep into. If you fell in you could twist an ankle or break a leg. Friends would lift you out of the way of the pitch but you had to crawl to the Mercy Hospital yourself because the match had to go on. |
0.16.42 - 0.18.59 |
Battles and fights with rival groups of boys Their rivals were the Coal Quay boys. Saturday evening they would raid the Coal Quay for the left over rotten fruit. They had timber palettes set up as a barricade and after 12 o’clock mass on a Sunday the Coal Quay boys would come. (had to go to mass otherwise someone would tell the Presentation Brother or you parents. Joe did miss a few) Battering match would start. Rotten apples. Soggy bananas. Tomatoes were the best. No stones. Whoever ran out of ammunition first you had to run away. 30 guys running down Coleman’s Lane would be easy targets. But the Marsh lads could spread out on Grattan Street. |
0.18.59 - 0.24.29 |
Halloween skull as Jack O Lantern from Tomb in St Peters There was no real fighting just wrestling. Maybe some fighting with firsts. No kicking someone in the head. Boxing with community centre against Mitchelstown. Joe couldn’t hit a small boxer and they had to stop the fight. Around the same time it was Halloween in St Peter’s graveyard all the tombs and headstones were in the centre not along the side. They were able to get into the tombs and went in with a match and were surrounded by bones in the dark. Didn’t need pumpkins they decided they would get a nightlight scandal, buy matches from Mr Barry and get a skull from the tomb and scares girls. Heard something moving in the tomb one night. His dad was a postman and he had a big torch but Joe could never find it when he wanted it. Always bring cigarette butts out of the tomb. Used safety pins to get the most out of the cigarette. |
0.24.29 - 0.26.24
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Cigarettes and getting money from empty bottles 8pm in the evening and at 8am the doctors and surgeons left or arrived at the Mercy Hospital, and they could’ve smoked in their offices at the time. Doctors sometimes threw away a cigar butt. Sometimes the children followed a doctor for 10 minutes and he might not throw the butt away! As they got older they went to Mr Barry’s shop and could get 2 fags (cigarettes) and a match for an empty bottle of Lucozade, which they could get from the Mercy Hospital. All the glasses were returnable at the time. They decided to take more bottles. 2 bottles would get you 4p four pence and you could go to the pictures (cinema) for 3p thruppence (three pence) and have money left over for cigarettes and a match. Tanora bottles from Jennings. |
0.26.24 - 0.31.03 |
Fishing for Money trouble with the Bailiff Dermot’s Cake shop on Adelaide street best cakes and creamy milks straight form the cow. Decided to take up poaching to get some money. Lots of mullet and salmon in the river at the time. Was rarely caught poaching because he could plank (hide) them at home within a few seconds. Sold them to Burns on Douglas Street, the Uptown Grill in MacCurtain Street (which must have lasted 60 years) the woman there said to bring over any more because they’re so fresh the blood is still hot in them! Mr Hurley the bailiff caught him occasionally and took his fishing rod and reported him to his mother and tell her to send Joe over to collect his fishing rod. He’d ask which rod was his in a room full of confiscated rods. Joe’s was the cheapest “Black Prince” but he’d get a more expensive one. Needed money for cinema and chips. Best two chippers: Hayden’s on Shandon Street and Kiely’s on Maylor Street. Wrapped in newspaper, lots of vinegar and salt. Tastiest part was to squeeze the vinegar out of the newspaper even with the dye running in it. Slogging apples down the Mardyke selling to woman Dooney Dawney. |
0.31.03 - 0.34.24
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Money & Sweets: Selling fishing Rod & tricking shopkeeper Sold the rod for money to an angler and bought a cheap rod again. He was a well-known angler on the Lee. Good anglers and fairly good anglers but luck plays a big part. Ahern sisters owned a shop a Sheare Street (Sheares Street). Penny bars and sweets ‘blackjack’, ‘cough no more’, ‘macaroon’ (Erinmore tobacco). Asked for penny bar that was up high so she would have to climb up and they would take a bar from the lower shelf. They once took it in turns to ask how much a bar was even thought they were all a penny and she eventually banned them all for life from the shop. It took them a year or two to get back on good terms. |
0.34.24- 0.35.55
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Safety of City in Past, Making floats for fishing, Social & Income Inequality Never any trouble when growing up. Joe’s 2nd eldest son is 38 lives on Northside, daughter on the southside and eldest son still lives in the Marsh. His children would say the Marsh was a great place to rear children. Where the Woolshed Bar [on Sheares Street] is now used to be Woodford Bournes the wine makers. And on the corner Paddy worked the guillotine to make ‘the corkies’ corks for the wine bottles for Woodford Bournes. Joe’s dad was a friend of Paddy & “they used have a drink together”. Joe would go to Paddy for bits of cork to make floats for fishing. He would bore a hole through the cork for the fishing line. “so we got everything for nothing”. Even got clothes from Coal Quay for very little. Some of his friends deny that they ever wore clothes from the Coal Quay. Joe thinks there was no in between either you were rich or you were poor. |
0.35.55 - 0.36.45
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Story of Man with nothing worth stealing Remembers old man second-next-door-neighbour and there was someone prowling around his house. He had nothing worth stealing only a transistor radio which everyone had so there was no one to sell it to. This neighbour shouted out “come on in if you want something. I have nothing and you’re welcome to half of that!” |
0.36.45 - 0.38.50 |
The Marsh today: Families vs Students Joe’s son Michael would still love to raise his children in the Marsh area, even with the volume of traffic. Joe thinks the Grattan Street area cannot take anymore offices or traffic. He says that the HSE have many of the buildings. Joe is lucky as he owns his own house. Married a Coal Quay girl Breda Dineen. There are plans to build student accommodation with 350 rooms on Grattan Street where the Munster Furniture and Hardware was. Joe says he will sell up and leave the parish if that is built. It will break his heart to do it but he can’t put up with any more. Talks about Edel House being discussed on the radio. And thinks there were a lot of “undesirables” in there. In recent times they were warned to behave themselves on the streets and Joe thinks that they do. He thinks that as well as genuine cases there are people looking for houses. Joe would like the HSE to take some buildings further out in areas like Montenotte, Model Farm Road and the Lee Road. He thinks that people who work for the HSE live in these places so won’t choose them for buildings to provide services. As a result buildings and services are put in the city centre. |
0.38.50 - 0.40.25
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Shawlies and booming trade on Coal Quay South Main Street, Castle Street, North Main Street when he was a child was booming. Joe’s grandmother was a shawlie. Joe’s wife re-enacts the shawlies. Joe remembers vermin everywhere on Coal Quay especially on Monday morning. Near where Bodega is now where Clayton Love’s used to be, the Loft Carpet is there now shawlies could trade in there too. You could trade indoors but you paid more to be out of the rain than trading outside. Joe’s grandmother traded under the clock and only sold fish- mackerel and apples. You’d be surprised how many ‘lords and ladies’ would buy their fruit and veg in the Coal Quay because it was fresh with mud still on the cabbage brought in by farmers on horse and cart. |
0.40.25- 0.41.15
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Ryan’s Pub on North Main Street and sleeping Farmers Mary Ryans bar many people went in there in the mornings for a ‘pick me up’ to keep warm. Farmers would abandon the horse and cart to go in there. Most horses would know their way home even if the farmer had too many “nips of Powers”. The farmer would fall asleep in the back of the cart and wake up in Blarney or Ovens. Joe would jump on the back of the cart without the farmer knowing and go out the Carrigrohane Straights which was the countryside then. Then they might swim in the Lee Fields sometimes in their clothes. ‘We were young, foolish but happy’. |
0.41.15 - 0.42.05 |
Food, Shoes and the Pawn Weren’t getting T-bone steaks at home. But they had potatoes, vegetables and homemade skull (bread). Was never hungry. Mother would get remnants of lino from the Munster Furniture and Hardware and cut them for insoles for their shoes. They had good shoes for going to mass which you had to take off straight away at home to be sent to Jones’s Pawn on the end of Shandon Street. |
0.42.05- 0.43.30
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School Violence and good teacher Hated St Joseph’s School because always got kicked in the ankle or had his toe stepped on or a clatter on the back of the ear for not being able to spell. Left there and went to St Francis School and the entrance was from North Main Street by Bradley’s Supermarket or by Broad Lane beyond the dispensary. Learned more in last two years in St Francis from lay teachers than he did from St Joseph. Teachers may have scolded them but never hit them. “Anything you don’t understand ask me” the teacher told them. Joe was watching the clock for when to leave, and watching the tides to know when the tides were bringing back the fish. |
0.43.30 - 0.44.50
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Changes in the Marsh for families: safety & shopping Joe’s son would love to live in the Marsh to rear his children. Couldn’t let them run around on the street with the traffic. But they would have Fitzgerald’s Park and close to Mercy Hospital. 5 minutes from 3 different supermarkets. Sometimes hear people singing or shouting coming back from the pub. The neighbours come to watch. Only incident he remembers in 36 years is that a few car mirrors were broken. Grattan Street is off the beaten track despite Washington Street being so close. |
0.44.50 - 0.46.15
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Food or not at School Not given food in St Francis School but given food in St Joseph’s in the morning “to toughen you up for the beating you would get in the afternoon”. Cocoa and creamy buns in the morning. A few years later they cut back to scones which weren’t the same! One time Joe didn’t get cocoa and a bun because his dad had gotten a promotion. And it upset Joe that all his friends got it. At the age of 10 or 11 he was in St Francis “the Rowdy Boys College”. St Peter and Pauls School was before Joe’s time. |
0.46.15 - 0.48.17 |
Food and Cooking Homemade skull or loaf of bread. His mother would make the bread. And nine times out of ten it would turn out right. the Hills were the biggest population of their aunts and cousins. Across the road from them was nanny Hill. Joe would get his dessert there. For school lunch he’d go home and get a sandwich with soup in the winter and diluted raspberry. Cheese sandwich- “poor man’s meat”. Very lucky to get a ham and cheese sandwich. When going back to school he would pause outside his house no 9 Devonshire Street. Across the road was 34 Nanny Hill’s house and she would bring over the heel of homemade skull plastered with blackcurrant jam which he’d eat on the way back to St Joseph’s on the ‘Dyke [Mardyke] only 5 minutes’ walk, but took him 10 or 15 minutes because he didn’t want to be punctual. He would get a punch from a brother for having a ring of jam around his lips. |
0.48.17 - 0.49.40
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School beating by Presentation Brother and boy’s father’s revenge There is a [Presentation] brother who is now married and living in Grange with a son and daughter. Joe would call him names if he ever met him again. A friend of Joe’s spent three nights in the Mercy Hospital after a beating from this brother. He made him take down his trousers until he only had his Y-front underwear on and beat him there with a four-foot bamboo cane. He was lying on his belly in the Mercy. There’s a black fire escape in St Joseph’s which is still there. The father of that boy had the brother hanging over the fire escape. People were screaming. And Joe and others were hoping that he would drop him. |
0.49.40 - 0.51.39
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Relief after school, Priest Friend assisting the Marsh Community Joe’s life began when he left that school because the fear was gone. He was able to concentrate in school then. In St Joseph’s the teacher was only interested in teaching 4 or 5 smart guys and the rest were punch bags. When Joe was 21 he had as good a job as any of his peers. The brothers were sadists he says. Thinks it took 5 years to become a priest and 7 to become a brother. They were young men who had never seen life and mostly put there by their parents. A retired priest, friend of Joe’s, ‘an t-athair Ó Murchú’ who was the priest in St Peter and Paul’s and is now in Belgooley. Joe goes down to him once a week on a Sunday and they bring him a creamy cake. When people were fighting for things in the parish he supported them, even when they weren’t agreeing with the HSE. The car park where Munster Furniture is the HSE were talking about putting a multi-storey car park there 30 years ago which was diverted to Dunnes Stores Car Park. |
0.51.39 - 0.53.03
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The Marsh Community object to multi-storey carpark People in the Marsh chained themselves across Grattan Street to stop trucks coming in to build a multi-storey car park. But they told the Gardaí in advance so they were on their side and they had no trouble. Joe knew the sergeant well and they used advise them the best way to have a peaceful protest and yet stop everything. Joe has many other memories but feels a little bit under pressure because of the recorder. Other things that they did ‘fighting for their rights’ because they could see offices and buildings going up that they opposed. |
0.53.03 - 0.58.30
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Problems with multi-storey car park and Student Accommodation in the Marsh Was in a meeting with the Council and Paul Moynihan from City Hall explained what was happening. The council own so much of the car park and building to right of Munster Furniture and Hardware. So if the council don’t sell these to the new developers there won’t be enough room for the student accommodation. Joe doesn’t have anything against students but object to their parties which have aged some local residents. Thinks in the past students didn’t behave how they do now. Joe & his wife decided they’d leave if the student accommodation is built, they don’t mind whether they go to the northside or to the southside, but somewhere on a bus route or somewhere near the city. Joe says he’s getting emotional because he always swore that he would die in the Marsh. Joe would like to see a small 5 or 6 storey hotel being built instead and there’s space for coaches. Or family housing being built. They named out other places where student accommodation could be built eg. The Good Shepherd building across from the Lee Fields and Joe was told the students would have so far to walk because they would be high-end students. Joe says the students behave like riff-raff when they are drunk. He was told the accommodation would have security. Joe knows one of the security men for the student accommodation on Lancaster Quay and they are behaved inside the complex but outside there is no control. Joe fears that students will be drinking in doorways in the Marsh or outside on tables which are being built for them to study on. Joe said that if they are 320 high-end students they will have cars and nowhere to park them, and they will have more money for alcohol. So Joe said the riff-raff students would be better! Joe can’t believe a walk from St Anne’s to UCC is too far. |
0.58.30 - 1.04.41
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Sicknesses past and changes now People died from diseases which no one knew what caused them. Some diseases that were killing people have simple cures now. Joe is more concerned about sicknesses today including insects like ticks and leeches. They would go to the dispensary for medication and prescription. If anything was too serious they would send you to the A&E but first get you to sign a form saying you had visited him so that he could get paid. Lots of measles. Chickenpox. Mumps used to be a killer disease especially for men as it could make you impotent. If you went to get medication from the Dispensary you had to bring your own empty bottle. Completely different attitude from doctors now. Might have been given tablets even if there was nothing wrong with you. People who were sent to St Anne’s because of a drinking/ alcohol problem for a few weeks but never came out. Joe didn’t get a clip in the ear growing up but he did do it for his children. Joe used to drink and just wanted to sleep after it. He thinks that women today wouldn’t take the abuse that women used to put up with. One man who went to St Anne’s was signed out by his niece years later and he was afraid of the double-decker bus and went back in of his free will to St Anne’s. |
1.04.41 - 1.06.53
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Issues with HSE Services in the city Centre Joe hopes HSE look elsewhere for offices rather than in the city centre. Methodone clinics around Cork Joe was told need to be in the city because they won’t travel for it which means it needs to be near Grattan Street. There’s a Community Garda. But Joe and his wife have not seen a Garda on the beat for three weeks. |
1.06.53 - 1.09.04
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Work of the Middle Parish Community Centre Joe and others including George [Patterson] do their best to keep the Middle Parish Community Centre going. Narcotics anonymous rent out a room upstairs. Alcoholics Anonymous, Gamblers Anonymous. There’s been no vandalism. Joe saw a man he knew going to Narcotics Anonymous outside La Verna near St Francis Church and he shook his hand because he was proud of him for trying to give up. |
1.09.04 - 1.26.27
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Experiences as an alcoholic and trying to give up Joe describes himself as a “dry alcoholic”. Joe hasn’t drunk for six years. He didn’t realise he had a drink problem because he was never aggressive or barred from anywhere. It took Joe years to realise he was unable to home after work without first going to the pub. And that he was having a few pints in a number of bars and that this was adding up to ten pints a night. He decided eventually that he would stop. If someone had told him that he had a drink problem he would have been “highly insulted” and thought he could stop drinking any time he wanted. He went to a few AA meetings and they didn’t suit him. He used to smoke 55/60 cigarettes a day while driving articulated trucks long distance for 35 years all over Ireland. He gave up cigarettes and thought it would be easier to give up alcohol. Ten years ago he gave up alcohol for 2 years. Alcoholics’ Anonymous saying is ‘one day at a time’. He was down in Inchydoney Hotel with his family and dogs. He was tired after lots of driving to Dublin, Wicklow and delivering salt to Killybegs. He kept track of his progress being off alcohol and appreciated the support of his wife. He went into the hotel and had some coke. The Munster Final was on. While waiting at a busy bar for more Coke he saw two men he knew drinking stout. And he ordered a pint of Murphys stout after he saw them. He made ten attempts to leave the pint there, but it overpowered him. He had a devil on one shoulder and a guardian angel on the other. He usually drank a pint in four sups. He went close to the toilet for his first sup in case he was sick from not being used to drinking after two years. He ordered a half-pint of Murphys. He felt fairly content because he felt he could handle the alcohol now. He had two pints of Beamish in Forde’s with a friend of his on a Friday. And slowly he was having more pints and on Wednesdays as well as Fridays until “the drink had a hold of me again”. He knew he couldn’t handle whiskey. Collapsed three times due to liver poisoning. He had to come home from Turkey when he collapsed, his doctor said they saved his life. He wasn’t allowed to eat or drink for 4 days. His GP was waiting for him at midnight when he arrived home in Cork and brought him to the Mercy. He told Joe he was lucky because his liver function was only at 52% working. It took 17 hours for his liver to get to 53% working. After a few weeks he started drinking again. He collapsed at home one morning unconscious for 20 seconds. GP took tests. Went to the Regional Hospital and put in intensive care. Dr Seamus O’Mahony was his liver specialist out there. Seamus told him not to waste his time if he was going to keep drinking and not to come to him without his wife because she would tell the truth about his drinking. Doctor asked him how many units he drank and Joe asked to speak in pints not units. Joe said 20 pints. The doctor said that’s a lot to have in a week. And Joe’s wife said that’s on a Saturday! Two drinking sessions on a Saturday. He was getting liver function tests on a regular basis and his liver was getting stronger. Joe used to give up alcohol two days before going to the doctor but didn’t realise that alcohol makes triglycerides in the body which take days to be broken down. Joe used drink cans of beer at home when his wife was away. He would vomit it up after two ‘slugs’ or gulps. And then he would try to drink it again. He said that you have to admit it to yourself that you have a problem. He realised that if he didn’t stop he wouldn’t see his five grand-children grow up. He has never been happier than he is now sober. His children can ring him at any time for a lift. And his children can depend on him. Joe still takes one day at a time. Joe knew a guy who was 33 years sober and he went to London and started drinking and was knocked down by a bus. |
1.26.27 - 1.28.44
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Family living in the Dispensary building Grattan Street Barrett family who lived in the Dispensary had children who are still alive living in southside who would be older than him. “they were all genuine down to earth people”. To the left of where the marriage registrar is now is where they lived. On the right hand side was an old lady sitting in a box like a phone box cut in half. And she would take people’s details as they entered. The double doors to the clinic were closed. The Barrett sons went to St Joseph’s School as well. Joe jokes about a previous interview I had with a friend of his Liam O hUiginn, and jokingly says he’s a very old man. Joe also apologises again for not being used to “speaking in public” pointing at the digital recorder. |
1.28.44 - 1.28.55
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Outro. Interview ends. |
Recalls her first holy communion where one girl arrived late and had to experience the ceremony on her own.
Speaks of some childhood games and playing and picnicking by the sea.
Enjoyed school at Loreto Convent Balbriggan even though the nuns were strict. English was her favourite subject.
Talks about her desire to become a nurse and her experiences in Dublin hospitals. Describes the strict discipline and hierarchy in hospitals including the way superiors exercised power over how nurses were required to dress and commented on their physical appearance with impunity. Jane outlines the negative impacts of this culture including fear of making a mistake and the incentive to cover up of mistakes. Outlines a rare challenge to authority when nurses boycotted a graduation ceremony. Mentions the role of religion in hospitals.
Outlines her time spend nursing in USA, a romantic relationship and her emigrant experience there before returning to Ireland to pursue Public Health Nursing (PHN), which she prefers as it feels she is making a difference.
Discusses moving to Cork and her early positive impressions of Grattan Street Medical Centre and its staff. Speaks about the Grattan Street building itself, including its sense of history, graffiti on its outside walls, and its convenient location in the city centre and proximity to other services. Describes the problems with car parking and the resulting tensions with neighbours.
Jane speaks of her PHN work in Blackpool and a court case involving a child and social worker. Outlines the characteristic of a good PHN, and how much of the role is learned through experience. Regrets the turn her career has taken towards management and away from dealing with patients.
Discusses the 1999 nursing strike which lead to a new role for an immunisation specialist which she was hired for. Describes how colleagues insisted on referring to her by her previous title, refusing to acknowledge her promotion and equal status. Describes her role including overseeing Swine Flu vaccinations.
Explains the vaccine cold storage system, the sense of responsibility for ordering them and overseeing them. Tells stories of when vaccines were relocated during a flood to protect them, and when the electricity was monitored during a storm in case the power was cut to the vaccine fridges. Mentions vaccine policies, myths and technological developments.
Outlines her preferred time to move services from Grattan Street to St Mary’s Primary Healthcare Centre Gurranabraher.
]]>Jane grew up in Balbriggan and Skerries County Dublin. Describes her love of the Georgian house her family lived in and her love of old buildings and antiques before they moved to a smaller home.
Recalls her first holy communion where one girl arrived late and had to experience the ceremony on her own.
Speaks of some childhood games and playing and picnicking by the sea.
Enjoyed school at Loreto Convent Balbriggan even though the nuns were strict. English was her favourite subject.
Talks about her desire to become a nurse and her experiences in Dublin hospitals. Describes the strict discipline and hierarchy in hospitals including the way superiors exercised power over how nurses were required to dress and commented on their physical appearance with impunity. Jane outlines the negative impacts of this culture including fear of making a mistake and the incentive to cover up of mistakes. Outlines a rare challenge to authority when nurses boycotted a graduation ceremony. Mentions the role of religion in hospitals.
Outlines her time spend nursing in USA, a romantic relationship and her emigrant experience there before returning to Ireland to pursue Public Health Nursing (PHN), which she prefers as it feels she is making a difference.
Discusses moving to Cork and her early positive impressions of Grattan Street Medical Centre and its staff. Speaks about the Grattan Street building itself, including its sense of history, graffiti on its outside walls, and its convenient location in the city centre and proximity to other services. Describes the problems with car parking and the resulting tensions with neighbours.
Jane speaks of her PHN work in Blackpool and a court case involving a child and social worker. Outlines the characteristic of a good PHN, and how much of the role is learned through experience. Regrets the turn her career has taken towards management and away from dealing with patients.
Discusses the 1999 nursing strike which lead to a new role for an immunisation specialist which she was hired for. Describes how colleagues insisted on referring to her by her previous title, refusing to acknowledge her promotion and equal status. Describes her role including overseeing Swine Flu vaccinations.
Explains the vaccine cold storage system, the sense of responsibility for ordering them and overseeing them. Tells stories of when vaccines were relocated during a flood to protect them, and when the electricity was monitored during a storm in case the power was cut to the vaccine fridges. Mentions vaccine policies, myths and technological developments.
Outlines her preferred time to move services from Grattan Street to St Mary’s Primary Healthcare Centre Gurranabraher.
0.00.00 - 0.00.28 |
intro |
0.00.28 - 0.02.41 |
Growing Up in County Dublin Grew up in Balbriggan County Dublin, seaside town between Dublin and Drogheda. When growing up she was allowed to Drogheda to shop by herself but not to Dublin because Drogheda was considered a safer town. [Jane mentions that Drogheda is not considered safe at present this is an allusion to drug gang related violence in Drogheda which was in the news around the time of the interview.] Also mentions Skerries as a seaside town in County Dublin. Went to school in Loreto Convent in Balbriggan at 4 and finished when 17 and refused the nuns’ offer to stay another year. Stayed in the same school for primary and secondary school, the benefit of which is having the same people with you. Had a school reunion about a year previously. Some of her classmates she didn’t recognise, but some of their names she also didn’t recognise. Says she loves Balbriggan. |
0.02.41 - 0.04.28 |
Moving House as Child Balbriggan and Skerries were just 4 miles apart, moved to Skerries when a teenager but considers herself to be from Balbriggan. Rivalry between the two towns and Skerries is considered to be nicer. Balbriggan was more “Wavin pipes”, more industry, Skerries was more for tourists. There was a holiday camp called Red Island that people in Dublin used to go to in Skerries. It was like the holiday camp in Dirty Dancing. [3:27-3:33 Aoife O’Brien who had been interviewed for the Grattan Street Project previously walks into the room at this point.] Skerries would have considered itself snobby as it has a rugby and sailing club. Even though she moved to Skerries she still went to school in Ballbriggan which was “not the done thing”. Her brothers went to school in Skerries and are married and live in Skerries. Bracken Court Hotel in Balbriggan which has been there forever and she remembers going there for her Holy Communion breakfast. |
0.04.28 - 0.07.13 |
Holy Communion Day It was a small group making their holy communion in the convent church rather than the town church. It was special in the sense that there were few children making their communion. Kathleen Gavin was given the wrong time for the communion and turned up an hour late and “the nuns ate her” and the nuns wouldn’t admit that they gave her the wrong time and she had to bring it in the next day to prove it to them. Kathleen still tells that story and is traumatised by it. She had to make her first holy communion by herself. It was a lovely sunny day and they all stood on the steps of the convent for a photograph. Confirmation was made in town. Now people will have a meal out after a communion or confirmation but in Jane’s time that was not always the case. But her aunt who lived next door brought her to the Grand Hotel (now the Bracken Court Hotel Balbriggan) for a lunch/brunch after the ceremony. And this was “a huge deal” because it was not a common occurrence at the time. For confirmation there were a few schools being confirmed at once. And there was a line of boys and a line of girls being confirmed at the same time in the church. All the girls wanted to be kneeling beside John Conway a boy who everyone fancied. |
0.07.13 - 0.10.15 |
Games when growing up She wasn’t big into sport. Lived in a big old haunted house which her grandmother left to her mother. It was near the sea. As children they were allowed onto the rocks by themselves. She played basketball in school but was not very good at it. Didn’t like that kind of confrontation. Played by the sea, it wasn’t a beach but rocks. Picnics and playing. Her dad built a ship in the garden, with a deck and sails. She was a big fan of Enid Blyton books as a child, especially the Secret Seven and the ‘Famous Five’ books. Her dad build them a Secret Seven type hut in the garden. As children they “went on mysteries”. They followed one man in imitation of the Enid Blyton books and decided that he was a smuggler. And they followed him up to a Martello Tower where he happened to be going to urinate. They had more freedom then, allowed to leave in the morning and return in the evening. That was the norm and there wasn’t the supervision that is present today. |
0.10.15 - 0.16.01 |
Old Family House Fancourt: big Georgian house. She hated leaving the house as a child. It was very expensive to keep the house and there were also rates to pay. In addition there were fees to pay for the convent school and there was five children going to school. So they moved to a smaller house in Skerries. Fancourt: Three storey, basement and land attached to it but there was more but it was sold to try to keep the house. Discusses the house and its jointly owned green area with the neighbouring houses. Haunted house: where priests were staying which was her sister’s bedroom- she saw a ghost of a monk. Other stories of ghosts including knocking on doors and foxhunters. Regrets the old furniture was sold, including servants bells. Jane is interested in auctions. |
0.16.01- 0.17.08 |
House in Skerries Small, terrace house. Skerries nice place to live by sea. Brother lived in Brambles estate and bought new house on the skerries terrace. |
0.17.08 - 0.23.13 |
Secondary School Loved school. Regrets being too good and not being bold. Wore green uniform. No street lights and was too far from town to meet friends after school at Loreto Convent. Loved the nuns though they were tough. Grateful to her parents for her education. Loved her friends, the school and its old building. Felt safe. Describes herself as average student not into sports. Few jobs for women when they finished school. English was her favourite subject. Would love to be librarian. Prefers physical books to E-books/Kindle. Pressure on students today at exam time. Criticises the Leaving Certificate points system where students opt for high points courses rather than one they are interested in. Importance of working at something you like: “Hard work won’t kill you but work you hate will” |
0.23.13- 0.26.36 |
Nursing Training & Hunger Strike Incident Jane’s mother had been a nurse. When she finished school there was a shortage of nurses. The applied directly to hospitals for nursing. But hospitals wanted trained staff rather than students. Trained in Jervis Street Hospital where the shopping centre is in Dublin now was a general hospital. Saying about nurses and Dublin hospitals: “Vincent’s snobs, Mater ladies and Jervis Nurses” Recalls riots due to Hunger Strikes. A man pulled a gun on her on O’Connell Street. Night duty on ward on her own, 20-25 beds. 24 rioters and 1 Garda were in the same ward. |
0.26.36 - 0.31.48 |
Wanting to be a Nurse & Early Nursing Experience Played hospital as a child. Always wanted to work in nursing. Has enjoyed much of it. Would not advise anyone to do nursing. Recalls seeing a confused naked man on her first day. Worried crying about giving the wrong medication to patient. Nurse students were also staff. Loved Irish nurses in America when she was their because their training was very practical. Enjoyed her time in St Mary’s Hospital New Jersey USA. Film “FX Murder by Illusion” features the hospital she worked in. |
0.31.48 - 0.34.50 |
Hospital in USA and Differences in Immigrants’ Intention AIDS was a big issue in the hospital in USA Observes that most immigrant groups in USA wanted to stay there but Irish people wanted to return to Ireland. Impact of Irish on the world St Patrick’s Day Parade. Thinks Irish people are patriotic abroad and keen to return home. |
0.34.50 - 0.37.43 |
Discipline in Hospital Difficult senior nurses. The sense of hierarchy. Demeaning and mocking way junior nurses were spoken to was accepted. Jane was referred to as an “anencephalic”, a baby born without part of its head which will soon die. When you knelt down your uniform had to touch the ground. Ward sister demanded to see under Jane’s uniform to see she was wearing a slip under her uniform. Nurses were allowed to wear a cardigan at night but had to take it off in the morning. A nurse went to Saudi Arabia where she was murdered. Thinks they were strict about stupid things. Discipline was important. No one thought to question it. |
0.37.43 - 0.40.58 |
Story of nurses boycotting nursing event Did midwifery in Rotunda. The Scottish matron didn’t hire any of the students but hired Scottish nurses. Jane & fellow midwifery students boycotted the graduation event in protest at this. Matron spoke to them individually. A brave nurse refused to answer any questions unless her union representative. Jane’s class is the only one not to have a group photo because of the boycott. People didn’t defy superiors at the time. |
0.40.58 - 0.42.32 |
Effect of the Strict Discipline Some staff were panicky and nervous about making a mistake. May have incentivised people to cover up mistakes to avoid the repercussions instead of working something out. Matron could make personal remarks about nurses without repercussions: telling a nurse to fix her crooked teeth. |
0.42.32 - 0.44.22 |
Religion in Hospitals No MRSA in those days. Nuns ran a very clean and efficient hospital. Jervis was a Catholic hospital. Rotunda was a Protestant hospital, most of the staff were Catholic and they went to mass, then the Protestants went to service and were given tea and biscuits. |
0.44.22 - 0.50.00 |
Working as a Nurse in USA: differences to Irish system Had to sit an exam before working as a nurse in USA. VISA dependant on passing the exam. Irish nurses were not used to multiple choice exams at the time. They were also required to sit an English language examination to work as a nurse in the USA. Rented houses were arranged for the nurses. Jane had a car and dated a man in Washington at the time. An exciting time. Maximum was 2 patients to a room in USA vs larger wards in Ireland. In USA their reports were taken on a tape recorder rather than written. Patient’s doctor would still be their doctor once they went to hospital. DRG Diagnostic Related Grouping which was related to how many days insurance would be paid per patient per illness. Good life and money in USA which allowed Jane to do the Public Health course in UCD. |
0.50.00 - 0.56.20 |
Public Health Nursing Desire to come home. Discusses her relationship with a reporter/journalist in USA which ended when she returned to Ireland. Began work in Ballyfermot - highlight in public health career. Started a needle exchange for drug addiction. Dynamic and progressive area. Rough area but felt you were making a difference. Didn’t feel the same way when she moved to Cork. Public Health vs Hospital: In hospital you pass the patient to the next shift, but in Public Health you are responsible for all of your cases. Once her camera was stolen from her car when visiting a patient. |
0.56.20 - 1.00.49 |
Coming to Cork Came to Cork because husband was working there. Had to do an Irish oral exam to get the Public Health job in Cork. November 1992 got job in Grattan Street Health Centre. Got married January 1993. Staff had a lunch and cake in before her wedding, and a present even though she was only there for a month. Admires architecture of Queens University Belfast, where she could have gone to work in the 1980s. Remarks on the small decisions than influence one’s life and career. |
1.00.49 - 1.06.59 |
Impressions of Grattan Street Health Centre Work as Public Health Nurse Parking problems in Grattan Street. Met director in base Abbey Court House. “The one thing you learn in Grattan Street is how to park!” There was more space before the school [Educate Together] Grattan Street was a welcoming place. Public Health Nurse in Blackpool flats now demolished. There was a brothel in one. Fantastic people. Once left handbag behind in Blackpool. Mixed work in Ballyfermot but all child welfare in Cork- visiting houses. Discusses one case of child with broken leg where mother hadn’t done anything about it. So a social worker and Garda were needed to get the child to hospital. Jane had to go to court. The child was returned to the mother. Jane then had to still work with that mother subsequently. |
1.06.59 - 1.09.02 |
Impression of Danger in Some Areas Worked with St Vincent de Paul in Knocknaheeny. Never felt threatened. Privileged to get into flats that people would let no one else into. If she saw suspected stolen goods she and they knew that she was not interested in anything other than child welfare. |
1.09.02 - 1.11.35 |
Story of very Difficult Patient Hospitals can discharge patients but as PHN the patient can live in your area for decades. Nurses shared a rota to look after this man because the heavy workload. Digression to story about writing wrong date in calligraphy on a colleague’s wedding album. |
1.11.35 - 1.15.30 |
What makes a Good Public Health Nurse Get on with people. Make people relaxed. People need to trust you. Have to be honest. Not trying to be someone’s friend. Assessment of patient is important. Patients can become dependent on a particular PHN. Privilege to enter other people’s homes, especially when they won’t let other people into their homes eg social workers or Gardaí |
1.15.30 - 1.19.30 |
Training and Meaning from Job Training didn’t prepare her for PHN. Compares it to jumping off a chair to train for parachute jump. End of career now. Disappointed at choices she made. She is now doing more management and less hands-on. Recalls times she felt she made a difference: making a joke with a terminal patient, assisting a family who had brought their father home to die to care for him when they were overwhelmed. Doesn’t feel like she is making a difference any more. |
1.19.30 - 1.21.20 |
Regrets the Management side of the Job As she was promoted she was had to do more management which she regrets. Is considering retiring or changing career. Would love to be a librarian or work with antiques or books. Discounts it as silly at this stage of her life. Is unhappy with her current work. Her staff say she makes a difference but she is not sure. She took a career break and her staff missed her. Feels too far away from where she started. |
1.21.20 - 1.26.40 |
Promotion to Vaccine and Management Role 1999 nursing strike. Jane was on strike committee. Picketed Abbey Court House on Sulllivan’s Quay. Meeting with management to decide whether the strikers could use the toilets and canteen. Outcome of the strike was that new job for a specialist in immunisation, vaccine. Jane was stabbed by a syringe by accident one day. Overnight Jane became Assistant Director, and colleagues at same grade insisted on calling her Senior Public Health Nurse which was the previous title. Recalls an Assistant Director who was victimised in a more severe way to Jane which went to mediation. It went away but it was nasty at the time Jane says. Jane was never invited to the Assistant Director Christmas lunch for years |
1.26.40 - 1.29.26 |
Change from Clinical to Managerial Role Her role was a clinical role with no staff, vaccines following up on defaulters. Croke Park and Haddington Road agreements changed her role. Swine Flu vaccinating 1000 people a day in Neptune Stadium. School public health nurses were backbone of system. And the management system was at cross purposes. These nurses eventually came under her remit. Realised that she didn’t like management- doesn’t like taking responsibility for the mistake of others. Describes her management style as “Do it, do it, do it!” and she shouldn’t have to give a reason. |
1.29.26 - 1.33.20 |
Building in Grattan Street compared to Gurranabraher Loves the building. Old Quaker Meeting House. Graffiti of penis and scrotum that her elderly aunt was trying to figure out. Would have preferred to stay in Grattan Street. Recalls the old ventilation holes where pigeon droppings would land on your desk. Location of Grattan Street is good for the public and services. Grattan Street building requires work to maintain it. Unsure if it’s a positive move for services to Gurranabraher. Useful to be near Edel House [women’s shelter] and the Share Houses. She has 7 staff but the new office is for 4 people which she thinks is insulting. Doesn’t believe hot desking works. They are on a “room allocation review list” |
1.33.20 - 1.35.09 |
Benefits of Grattan Street Health Centre Close to town- shops and the bank. Part of the community in Grattan Street. Close to Mercy Hospital. Building has a good feel. Felt at home there. Lots of history. The only thing people don’t miss in Grattan Street is the parking. Everyone went to the Grattan Street Christmas party. |
1.35.09 - 1.40.06 |
Relationship with community in Grattan Street Animosity is with neighbours regarding parking. Story about getting kitchen done by a man from Grattan Street and being concerned about parking. School next door- issue with parking- children don’t live in the area. Tricky relationship with the school. Story of previous principal of the school trying to get clampers to clamp all the cars belonging Grattan Street staff. Other stories about the difficulties caused by parking and the uneasy relationship with the school. |
1.40.06 - 1.40.55 |
Other Stories Mentions that there are stories about affairs in Grattan Street but doesn’t want to tell them. Says Grattan Street was a good place to work. |
1.40.55 - 1.44.55 |
Vaccine Storage Fridges Temperature Control Vaccines have to be kept in fridges between 2 degrees and 8 degrees. The Cold Chain- ensures that the vaccines are at the right temperature including when transported. Vaccines have to be monitored and recorded twice a day. Some people think Jane is over the top with her care of vaccines. She doesn’t think so. Vaccines are very expensive and important when going to school. Found it hard being responsible for the vaccines even when not at work. Story that she called about the vaccines from a Gondola in Venice is not true! Hundreds and thousands of euro worth of vaccines at a time when Order through United Drug. She sees the price every time that she orders which is stressful to see the cost. |
1.44.55 - 1.44.55 |
Difficulties Moving Vaccines to Gurranbraher Dreaded moving the vaccine in Grattan Street because there’s no lift. Complications of moving vaccine fridges and the required procedure. |
1.44.55 - 1.44.55 |
Funny story about Monitoring Electricity for Vaccine Fridges during Storm Electricity was to be cut off due to replacing telegraph poles. Needed generator to keep electricity on for the vaccine fridges. Jane had asked many times for a back-up generator but never received one. Was asked by superior to protect the vaccine fridges from a storm, which had never been asked before. Generator set up in Grattan Street yard. Jane inquired how the back-up would be physically changed if the power goes out? The solution was that the toilet light was to be left on and the electricity workers would see driving past if the power failed. |
1.49.55 - 1.51.51 |
Moving Vaccines during Floods Older man told Jane that Grattan Street is in a depression and so there are never any power cuts. One problem during big floods in Grattan Street when wall near Mercy broke. Jane was doing vaccines for Swine Flu in Neptune at the time. With steps up to Grattan Street Health Centre and vaccines on top floor Jane thought they were safe. She was informed an amphibious craft was to come to move the vaccines. A Ford Fiesta arrived. They were put in St. Finbarr’s Hospital for the night. |
1.51.51 - 1.54.25 |
Future of Vaccines Takes the vaccine care very seriously so that it’s both safe and effective. In third world vaccine storage is more complicated. Tyndall Institute is developing a patch that will deliver vaccines rather than needles. Makes comparison to Star Trek. |
1.54.25 - 2.01.07 |
Vaccine Take Up and vaccination policies Is very pro-vaccine Mentions problem with social media spreading misinformation about vaccines. And the damage that can cause. Doesn’t argue with vaccines with friends and family. Following up with child who had only received some of the required vaccine, the mother brought the child to an area with a measles epidemic. Thinks more education is needed and PHNs need to be very positive about vaccines. Thinks the HPV vaccine is a no-brainer. Need to dispel vaccine myths. Approximately 1500 euro to vaccinate a child fully. Wonders whether the fact the vaccination schemes are free of charge makes some people take it for granted and not value it. Some countries have a no vaccination no school policy. Minister for Health at the time Simon Harris had been discussing a similar policy in Ireland. In some countries there are penalties for not getting vaccinations eg withdrawal of Child Benefit. In Ireland the decision is left to the individual. Some parents think that because all other children are vaccinated that their child will be safe. Story of an unvaccinated child whose mother with only let the child play with vaccinated children! “Every vaccine is a little victory” |
2.01.07 - 2.01.54 |
Opportunity for Interviewee to say anything not yet mentioned Describes the interview as better than a counselling session. Reiterates that she has gone far away from where she started out in her career and it may be time to step back. |
2.01.54 - 2.05.57 |
Hopes for Future of Grattan Street Doesn’t believe Grattan Street can be sold. There was lots of pressure on them to move, which Jane felt was unnecessary. Jane’s preference was to move in the summer when the schools are closed because there would be no need to do vaccinations, but they were forced to move during term time. Is not sure what services are remaining in Grattan Street. Mentions a piece of furniture that she would love to have from Grattan Street. Hopes the future of Grattan Street will benefit the community. Discussion about Grattan Street being opened for heritage week or an open day but it never happened. |
2.05.57 - 2.06.10 |
Outro. Interview Ends. |
Describes the family home and routine chores. Speaks about the importance of sport especially tennis in her family upbringing.
Recalls her school days including instances of corporal punishment and the negative effects it had on people. Went home for lunch, mother prepared their dinner using meat from their butcher shop.
Describes secondary boarding school in Loreto Fermoy, especially the structure it imposed.
Speaks of how she had always intended to become a nurse. May have learned traits and habits useful for her career from her mother’s work ethic. Describes her nursing training in the Mercy Hospital and how the rosary was said there every night.
Describes her path to Public Health Nurse training in Dublin. Talks about her desire to work in the community rather than in the constraints of a hospital. Describes the wide range of PHN duties from pregnancies, births, infants, acute injury support, addiction, disability, older adults to dying and palliative care.
Discusses her current role as Assistant Director of Public Health Nursing where she advocates for early intervention to prevent behavioural issues in children. Mentions the large staff turnover due to the difficulties of the work. Much of the work involves building relationships.
Speaks about how poverty, social disadvantage, addiction, alcoholism affect children’s health and create a negative cycle which PHNs have a role in breaking. Speaks of how difficult it is for someone who hasn’t had parental role model to function as a parent themselves.
Talks about the move from Grattan Street to St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre and how she misses the other medical teams.
Describes Grattan Street as happy place to work, enjoyed the building and its quirks such as the gallery which facilitated casual conversation and the rattling windows. Believes people enjoyed working there because they got something positive from the building. Mentions the difficulties with parking there and its impact on the wider community. Feels that the building owned them.
Speaks of her hopes for the future of Grattan Street building once services move out.
Discusses caring for and moving vaccines as a School Nurse.
States that Grattan Street was a special place.
]]>Eileen grew up in Tallow in west Waterford in a family of seven. Her father ran the family butcher business attached to the house. She recalls him singing and whistling, and the sawdust on the shop floor. Recalls meat and tripe being sold and drisheen being made by her mother, explains this process.
Describes the family home and routine chores. Speaks about the importance of sport especially tennis in her family upbringing.
Recalls her school days including instances of corporal punishment and the negative effects it had on people. Went home for lunch, mother prepared their dinner using meat from their butcher shop.
Describes secondary boarding school in Loreto Fermoy, especially the structure it imposed.
Speaks of how she had always intended to become a nurse. May have learned traits and habits useful for her career from her mother’s work ethic. Describes her nursing training in the Mercy Hospital and how the rosary was said there every night.
Describes her path to Public Health Nurse training in Dublin. Talks about her desire to work in the community rather than in the constraints of a hospital. Describes the wide range of PHN duties from pregnancies, births, infants, acute injury support, addiction, disability, older adults to dying and palliative care.
Discusses her current role as Assistant Director of Public Health Nursing where she advocates for early intervention to prevent behavioural issues in children. Mentions the large staff turnover due to the difficulties of the work. Much of the work involves building relationships.
Speaks about how poverty, social disadvantage, addiction, alcoholism affect children’s health and create a negative cycle which PHNs have a role in breaking. Speaks of how difficult it is for someone who hasn’t had parental role model to function as a parent themselves.
Talks about the move from Grattan Street to St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre and how she misses the other medical teams.
Describes Grattan Street as happy place to work, enjoyed the building and its quirks such as the gallery which facilitated casual conversation and the rattling windows. Believes people enjoyed working there because they got something positive from the building. Mentions the difficulties with parking there and its impact on the wider community. Feels that the building owned them.
Speaks of her hopes for the future of Grattan Street building once services move out.
Discusses caring for and moving vaccines as a School Nurse.
States that Grattan Street was a special place.
0.00.00 - 0.00.25 |
Intro |
0.00.25- 0.02.04 |
Background Started in Grattan Street 2002 had been in different positions but haven been there full-time since 2012 as Assistant Director of Public Health Nursing. Covers the nursing staff for the City North-West area population 27,000. 10 area PHNs [Public Health Nurses] community RGN teams (Registered General Nurse). Eileen is PHN, RGN and registered mid-wife. You have to be an RGN to become a PHN. Worked as an RGN first in the community in North Cork prior Grattan Street. Then did PHN course in Dublin UCD (University College Dublin). Returned to Grattan Street, work as PHN on the ground, in schools, preschools, inspecting in nursing homes, assistant director of PHN since 2009. She was in two other sectors before that. |
0.02.04 - 0.04.21 |
Childhood in Waterford Born a long time ago! In Tallow west Waterford. From family of 7, has an older brother and four younger brothers and one younger sister. Father was a butcher, family business. Went to school in Tallow, then Loreto in Fermoy and then to the Mercy Hospital and did RGN training, then Dublin to Hollis Street for midwifery training. [Eileen’s phone rings but she mutes or turns it off and continues the interview] There were about four butchers in Tallow but now only a Supervalu. She remembers her dad singing and whistling below in the shop when she was in bed in the morning. He and his father were good singers and whistlers. Remembers sawdust in the shop and it going all over the house. Father and mother going to the marts getting sheep and animals coming to the back yard and into the slaughter house. Grew up with it so didn’t see anything unusual in it. Good happy childhood. Brothers and her all involved in sport. She and parents played tennis. “We were brought up in a tennis court” played some hockey in school. Lots of sports, golf as well. But now doesn’t have time with work. |
0.04.21 - 0.06.36 |
House at Home Growing up Two storey house on the street. Shop was attached to it. Downstairs there was a living room, a kitchen and a back kitchen and a room off the shop and four bedrooms upstairs and a bathroom, a big garden, a shed and a slaughter house. Grew up as an only girl, her sister is 14 years younger. She had gone to boarding school/secondary school by the time she was born. Had lots of friends in Tallow, still has them, still keep in touch. Did a lot of work in the house, as she tells her mother who’s now 92. They were all given jobs to do. She had to hoover the sawdust. She was involved in the weekly bath for her brothers, making sure their shoes were polished every Saturday evening. Thinks that today it is different, perhaps because of parenting. Dad died 10 years ago suddenly from a heart attack which she says was lovely for him. Siblings all alive, one in England. |
0.06.36 - 0.10.57 |
Produce in the Butchers Drisheen, Tripe, Black Pudding. And the making of them. Meat was sold in the butchers and some onions. Mother made drisheen and black pudding every Thursday to be ready for Friday and Saturday. Sometimes she would get some tripe from the market in Cork and it would be sold in their shop. They didn’t make the tripe themselves but they did the drisheen and black puddings using the serum. Serum from the blood and milk and pepper was used in it. It is supposedly good for you. And they ate that every Saturday night on top of sausages and rashers and they keep that tradition going but without the drisheen. Very mild flavour. It’s the frying that gives it a flavour. Maybe someone who wasn’t used to it might find a stronger flavour. Doesn’t remember the flavour of any herbs. It was a light grey colour in comparison to black pudding. Possibly some kind of sausage meat added to the black pudding. There was a machine where it would come from. Serum is separation from the blood when it is allowed to settle and there is a strainer. You use what floats to the top and discard the rest. Father and sister loved tripe but Eileen never “acquired the flavour for tripe” served “with boiled onions and milk”. Eileen doesn’t remember the butcher shop selling pork. But she thinks she might be wrong about that because her father kept a pig and he won a trophy for his prize pig when Eileen was about 7. |
0.10.57 - 0.15.09 |
School, Corporal Punishment, going home for Dinner School in convent in Tallow. Carmelites enclosed order still in Tallow, they didn’t teach but it was in their area. Boys had a separate school at the time but now it is co-ed: boys and girls. Enjoyed school. Reasonably well-behaved because terrified. Teachers could slap you, corporal punishment. Eileen didn’t get slapped often because she was a good girl. Remembers a small ‘roundy’ stick which would be used to hit children around the knuckles. Some teachers had less patience than others and found it difficult but the students didn’t understand that. She is glad corporal punishment is gone because it lowered self-esteem, and put you at a disadvantage. It wasn’t just the slap, it was that someone had carried it out on you. You felt brutalised. It was very common, right up to the time her children were in primary school, some of the teachers at the ends of their careers there had a reputation for corporal punishment. Would get a slap if they thought you weren’t paying attention or if you were talking to someone. Spoke about corporal punishment with her friends subsequently. And she discovered terrible things that happened to people which she wasn’t aware about at the time. Slaps across the face, pulling of ears, hit on the head. “You were an easy target. They had the power.” It was difficult. She thinks that if you were involved in sport you were treated a bit differently, though not if you were academic. They had outside toilets in primary school- “leaves and cold and wet”. Was able to go home at lunchtime and have dinner. “My wonderful mother had my dinner ready every day. For the nine of us.” |
0.15.09 - 0.15.48 |
Dinner and Types of Foods For dinner they would meat that hadn’t been sold in the butcher’s shop. They might have steak for a treat on Thursday night but usually more reasonable cuts of beef and lamb. Always meat, vegetable and potatoes. Mother was a great cook and baker so they always had something sweet to eat as well. |
0.15.48 - 0.19.01 |
Secondary School Boarding School Boarded in Loreto Fermoy, her brothers went to De la Salle in Waterford. Her parents worked hard to get them that education. Her mother had boarded but her father had left school early. Some of her friends from home went to Loreto as well and she also made new friends there. There for 5 years. Happy enough time. Initially allowed home every third weekend, eventually allowed home every weekend. As an only girl it was good to be around female company, she thinks she would have just been bossing the boys around at home. First impression was of the structure of the place: all your recreation time was spent in the one place. And you were there with your class, it was all set out for you and you had to fall into line. “I wasn’t unhappy there.” Calls by day, hockey in afternoon- sometimes go to Cork for a match. Every Saturday they were not at home they went for walks, they walked through the town, on parade in their uniforms. Had music at night in the social room listening to records. Abiding memory is of seeing Dana winning the Eurovision. Maybe she saw something about Bloody Sunday as well.” |
0.19.01 - 0.20.36 |
Career Choice. Nursing. Mother’s education. Role of Religion. Mercy Hospital “For some reason I always had nursing in my head.” Maybe because her mother said she would have done nursing if she could- she had left school after her Junior Cert and did a year in a technical school where she got her baking skills. Mom was a great worker so thinks she would have made a great matron rather than a nurse because she would have wanted everything done properly. Eileen says she may have some of those traits herself. After Eileen’s training when she went into the hospital she felt claustrophobic “for some reason it didn’t sit well on me.” She did 3 years in the Mercy. There were nuns there at the time: “Great fun, hard work.” |
0.20.36 - 0.22.07 |
Role of religion in the Mercy Hospital. The rosary was said every night on the wards. Had to go down on your knees at 6 o’clock and shout out the decades of the rosary. Biggest thing was that they had to know the joyful, glorious and sorrowful mysteries. They went to mass every morning around 7am when they stayed in the nurses home for the first year and a half. Nuns were strict. She was only 17 when she was there so she thinks it might have been good. She didn’t regret doing nursing but she didn’t take it too seriously either. |
0.22.07 - 0.23.18 |
Nursing Training in Mercy Hospital Three years training but only got a certificate. Learned anatomy, physiology and putting it into practice and managing patients/clients, eventually managing a ward. Managing night-time with patients coming in. managing a children’s ward. Dealing with everything: clinical care, surgery, people dying. Children dying. Recalls children dying in St. Anne’s Ward that will never leave me. Delighted to see the Mercy is busy and expanding. She has fond memories of it. |
0.23.18 - 0.26.55 |
Route to PHN and Grattan Street Did a little bit of work there wasn’t much work for qualified nurses at the time. Went to Fermoy Hospital, a community hospital. Worked there for a few months. Went to Hollis Street and spent a year there- very interesting. Opening into a different experience in the capital. She was madly in love at the time came home frequently. Eventually went back to Fermoy Hospital and got married at 23 in June, and by October of the following year she had her first son and so gave up nursing. Husband was self-employed and was often away and she felt one of them needed to be there they had three children. When the children got older she decided to do a course in fitness and taught exercise classes for 8 years. She had tried to get into PHN but hadn’t enough experience. She met a friend in Fermoy in 1998 and she said why not go into the community they are looking for RGNs in North Cork. She applied, got it and then “got the bug for the community” and applied twice to UCC for PHN course and they didn’t think she was suitable. She was accepted in Dublin and found it challenging. She was 47 at the time. She was up there for three week period. She came home every weekend. She came home on placement for a two week period placed in North Cork. That’s how it operated for the academic year. it was manageable and she had always wanted to do it. She was going back into a group of nurses who had been working, who knew everything, who knew computers and Eileen could barely send a text message on a phone. She was accomplished at essays by the time she was finished. She entered Grattan Street 2002. |
0.26.55 - 0.28.25 |
Public Health Nursing Eileen enjoyed the freedom of PHN, didn’t like the constraints of the hospital and the regimental nature of it. PHN suited her. Liked going into clients’ homes and fitting in with them rather than them fitting into a structure in a hospital. She wonders about the broad, complex, extended and manic nature of what is being attempted in the community now. She hasn’t been out working in 2009 but she has been working managing staff inside and supporting them in client management. |
0.28.25 - 0.33.06 |
Role of Public Health Nurse Looking after clients from the ante-natal (pregnancy period) to the end of life care. Anything and everything in between that. A huge sphere. Looking after mums to be, babies, mums after birth, young children, acute discharges who need support around wound care, clients with mental health, addictions, disabilities, older adults, dying and palliative care. Thinks it’s now too broad now because the type of discharges are very complex, almost providing a hospital type care within the community. Sláinte Care- clients being discharged into the community. Eileen doesn’t think this can happen until they had sufficient resources to match the numbers being discharged to them, she needs an increased budget. City north west is an area of great disadvantage there are 20 DEDs (Electoral Divisions) in it 15 of which are designated as disadvantaged or very disadvantaged. Lots of complexities around parenting. This leads to children with behavioural issues. Eileen is always advocating for early interventions. Role of PHN was always health promotion and illness prevention. More hands on now doing clinical, assessments, referrals, ordering supplies, reviewing things. So what was formerly the PHN’s main role is no longer their main role. Early intervention is key, it would be very beneficial. In the city northwest area there are many non-statutory bodies area-based childhood programme, (Atlantic Philanthropy was supporting this for a while now it’s Tusla) they support families, parents, teachers, childcare workers increasing capacity around infant mental health. Springboard run by Tusla which support families. “Niche” in Hollyhill a family support agencies, and Barnardos as well. Eileen is involved with all of them in child welfare and protection. Would like to get the issues resolved at child welfare stage. Everyone that comes to work here gets great experience but no one stays for very long. Lost two staff in April. 1.5 staff were on maternity leave and not replaces and another 2 going on maternity leave. |
0.33.06 - 0.35.30 |
Turnover of Staff Turnover due to the challenging work. Often chasing people, offering them appointments to bring their children, but they don’t. When you go back they won’t answer the door, or their phone, and change their phone number, or don’t tell you that they’ve moved house. Not all people they deal with are like that but a core group are because they have had no parenting themselves and the cycle continues of disadvantage, poverty, poor education and housing, unemployment. “Entitlement stage” their parents were entitled to everything. In PHN there is no entitlement which they try to get across. Eileen thinks that people born and reared in poverty and with poor parenting have no chance of catching up because they don’t realise the level they are at. Eileen doesn’t know where to break that cycle though she thinks that PHN plays some role. Places in Dublin and Limerick also have areas of disadvantage. Eileen think that sometimes her staff give people what they think the people need but it may not be what they really need and sometimes the staff can’t get that information from people. It’s all about building relationships but it’s hard to build that relationship when people don’t want what you have to offer people. |
0.35.30 - 0.40.25 |
Child Development Problems- Multiple Causes, Complex Solutions Should they ensure that all children in primary school are fed? Or is that too late? An infant mental health specialist with young Knocknaheeny area child-based programme 0 to 2 years is pivotal in nurturing and bonding and if it doesn’t happen children end up with low self-esteem or behavioural problems. These become bigger problems later as the children have not developed skills in coping because they haven’t been shown them. And if it’s not there by age two they miss out on a lot. Ante-natal period classes with Young Knocknaheeny to build a relationship with the mothers when they have their babies which they have to see until they are 5. There are a lot of services for people but sometimes they don’t want to be seen as a target for the services, they don’t want to be seen as different. Eileen was initially shocked by that attitude, someone said “another service being thrown at us” and maybe they were saturated with services and it wasn’t something they wanted at all. If Eileen knew how to break that cycle she would patent it. She read an article by someone in charge of Bessborough- how can we expect young mums to parent a child when they were never shown and they had no role model. How to build trust and build a relationship because they can be very wary and distrustful of services. Parents think that if they don’t do what the PHN says or thinks is right that there could be child protection issues involved because this happened a lot in the past and sometimes a child was removed. But for social workers the last resort is to remove a child- the child as almost always better with the parents from their point of view. Eileen thinks that approach is a bit unusual, especially if there is no bond between parents and the child. Sometimes a child is removed for a period of time, and there are health professional meetings, case conferences, families come together and everything is discussed. Sometimes it doesn’t work but you have to try. In those cases there is a health professional meeting or a case conference meeting and the children go into foster care and maybe go back to the parents after a period. |
0.40.25 - 0.45.40 |
Social and Medical Issues in North Cork Area Most of the moms are single with different partners for the different children. Housing is an issue, expenses for school, dependence on drugs, alcohol, polypharmacy, mental health, self-neglect. A number of clients are alcoholics who come home and expect the HSE to provide services. They can refer clients to the mental health services but the client has to agree to go. And there is a lot of that. Lots of young people with disabilities which she was surprised at she felt she had been very “sheltered”. When she came from North Lee so many people had disabilities or something wrong with a lot of people. The stats are quite high. North Cork is rural but North Lee is exceptional. One third fit into that category. Mental health and addiction issues are shocking. Grandparents are minding grandchildren because their children aren’t capable. She had no exposure to this until she arrived and so she was unprepared for it. Eileen could retire any time she wants but she likes the work but will retire in a few years. She tries to make a difference. |
0.45.40 - 0.49.40
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Compares Grattan Street to new St Mary’s Primary Care Centre. Car Park issues. Get pleasure from the new building in St Mary’s so different to Grattan Street. When in Grattan Street they loved it and linking in with the team and got stuck in the car park. Eileen had a database with all the cars and numbers and if anyone was in a parking space who wasn’t registered they would get a note on their car. The car park nearly broke their hearts. Eileen was in a 7:20 every morning to get the parking space and would dread having to go anywhere because your space would be gone. When she went there as a novice PHN she didn’t like the outside of the building but once inside she felt comfortable there, and the staff were nice in there. They always knew if someone was sick or had a bereavement. When she left Grattan Street she had a room there but it is now full with other things and incontinence wear. Jokingly blames Sean Higgisson the porter for this. Some of the rooms in Grattan Street are beginning to look neglected and old. Some of the team are not looking forward to moving up to St Mary’s. They are anxious about the move. But many with Eileen were as well before they moved but at least her team are all in the one place now. She feels they are well-settled in St Mary’s now and they like it and she told Sean the porter and Celine in admin this. They’re not really missing Grattan Street. |
0.49.40 - 0.57.13
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Typical Day in Grattan Street and Changes. Hospital Discharges. Arriving in Grattan Street first it was similar to what she had been used to in North Cork. (North Lee is from Youghal to Macroom) Was in Mayfield for a year. Was in Glanmire St Stephen’s for 2 years. 2012-2019 in Grattan Street. A typical day in Grattan Street was getting there early to park the car to be able to get out quickly. When traffic in Grattan Street became one way it really affected staff in Grattan Street- previously they were able to leave and go up Shandon Street but now they have to turn through narrow streets. Doesn’t feel they were told or consulted about that change. After getting their early she went for a walk because initially she didn’t have a key to the health centre. Walk to the quays, North Main Street into St Francis Church to pray for everyone (and for herself not to kill anyone). Back to Grattan Street, Sean would be there, have coffee, reply to emails, manage staff annual leave, sick leave professional development, pre-discharge meetings. She is on various boards and bodies which entailed various meetings. Would go St Finbarr’s [Hospital] head office once a week. Busy. Trying to find solutions to problems. Would think of something in bed at night but forget it by the time morning comes. Sometimes write a note in the phone and go back to sleep. In Grattan Street working with clients, working through correspondence, going to meetings: multi-disciplinary teams with more views, suggestions and options. Could be about a client having issues with self-neglecting, a client who deteriorated and needed extra supports. Mercy today for pre-discharge meeting for a very complicated case coming home. Previously the person had been discharge and within 36 hours he was found on the floor and the door had to be broken down- required the Gardaí, ambulance, nurse and home help. He refused to go to hospital. The following morning he was unwell again and he was sent to hospital. Now they want to send him home again. Many complexities come from not having next of kin and the nurse shouldn’t have to take on that responsibility. Capacity bill. Not always safe discharges. Reiterates connections with Young Knocknaheeny, Niche, Barnardos, Springboard. Try to link in with other groups and social work but feels they need to focus on their own work. Their cases are too big to be involved. Feels pulled and dragged a lot. As a PHN you are a manager of an area of 3,000 population which isn’t huge but the complexities make it hard. In a rural area there might be a population of about 5,000 but they wouldn’t all be active. |
0.57.13 - 1.01.40 |
Social Aspect Aoife O’Brien is great to get people together, comes up with idea, advertise, follow up, plan order things, get back to people and doesn’t force people and takes photos. Eileen takes pride in the Christmas party and restarting it. It’s the only time they really had events in Grattan Street. Allows you to have fun, eating and relaxing and speaking about plans. Someone made punch but with the change in driving laws and when that woman left they didn’t have it anymore. Lots of young people in Grattan Street now who go out after work to a bar but Eileen wouldn’t have done that. There was a lot of moving or transferring staff and they would do something for them like a lunch. Mixed well with admin, nursing, podiatry, school nurses, ophthalmology. Everyone knew where everyone was. When they came to St Mary’s first in early February (5th & 6th of February after the nurses strike) they really missed the other teams. Expected the other to follow shortly after but they haven’t. When meeting people in the corridor in St Marys there might not be eye contact and they aren’t used to that coming from St Mary’s. Now they are smiling and saying hello. They are integrating into the new building. When people finally come up from Grattan Street it might be easier for them now that Eileen’s team has managed the transition. |
1.01.40 - 1.07.10
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Everyone loves Grattan Street Some people wanted to leave but only for parking. Grattan Street reversing out and cars double parked on both sides. Saw a lorry bringing in windows for a school extension. People in the school sometimes try to take their spaces. The lorry reversed in- surprised how good a driver he was. Teams close together in Grattan Street but separated now in St Mary’s. Podiatry will come up. Home Support Service is in St Marys. PHN have rooms for clients downstairs. While everyone is in St Mary’s they are separate. They are beginning to get used to all the space. Thinks it’s more productive in St Marys. Sector 4- City Northwest touches on the Mardyke and Western Road a bit but most of it is on the Northside. It made no sense for staff to be based in town and come up to the Northside and then back down. Grattan Street Health Centre is part of Mayfield Sector 3- City North East. So really they were in temporarily lodgings there. In St Mary’s can respond to thinks more quickly, nurses can do their calls more easily. Can’t think of negative things, maybe the room with 20 of the nurses instead of 2 to 5 people. But people are getting used to it. Some health centres have a mix of disciplines but in St Mary’s it’s all nursing which Eileen prefers. Canteen in Grattan Street was homely and functional. But in St Mary’s it’s clinical, not big and equipment is ok but it’s very loud. Eileen goes there when it’s quiet and looks out the window at the trees which has a preservation order on them. |
1.07.10 - 1.11.08
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Interaction with Surrounding Grattan Street Community Fraught interaction with the surrounding area in Grattan Street to do with the car park. There’s 6 parking spaces for anyone. And the ones at the back wall and the other side area for HSE. There might not be enough space for residents. And HSE staff would try to get in early enough for a space. They had a good relationship with the school [Education Together] until they started taking the HSE parking spaces. Sean had a good relationship with the school and the locals because he would have more dealings with them. Only the back door of people’s houses were connected with the car park their front doors faced elsewhere. There was a hall. And the area in which Grattan Street is located isn’t covered by the PHN area that Eileen was in, it was covered by Mayfield. So Eileen feels they were a bit disconnected from the Marsh. Not much interaction with shops. Raised blood pressure due to the car parking and arguments and they nearly shot each other over it! Eileen told someone that they couldn’t park there because they weren’t working there and she was shocked at the angry verbal abuse she got after it. Sometimes arguments would start badly but in the end they would be smiling and wondering what all the fuss was about. |
1.11.08 - 1.14.18
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Describe Grattan Street A happy place to work. Liked the building and its peculiarities, its rattling windows. Arguing to get a new window where the bottom part was falling out and tin foil was blocking the gap. In her room the wind was coming in and the window wasn’t replaced. Bars on the window. And obscure glass so you could only see out when you open the top. Thought that the two stairs going to the 2nd floor in Grattan Street was cool when she was there first and the gallery all around and the open space it created. An old quaint building being pushed into something it was never meant to house. Glad to hear that there is talk of people going in there. The gallery made things different. And you could see if someone was waiting for you and have a bit of craic. An opportunistic up and down conversation. Not as easy to catch people in St Mary’s. “We will always have happy memories of Grattan Street. Always. And I’m sure it will become even more embellished with time.” |
1.14.18 - 1.18.30 |
Why do people like Grattan Street? Eileen thinks it’s partly because of the people working there. The building lends itself to that. They got something good from the building. When you entered the building there were no lights on you had to go to the reception area to turn them on. One morning she heard something flush when she went in. She locked herself in her office. And called Sean (Higgisson the porter) who said the toilet just flushed itself- another peculiarity. Sometimes people were difficult in Grattan Street and Sean was calm and dealt with it. Being near town gave you lots of options for places to go which isn’t the case in St Marys. Someone could come in shouting and verbally abusive and demanding to see someone. Someone collapsed once and Sean had to get him to the Mercy Hospital in wheelchair. Try to diffuse the difficult person- Sean would be good at that and might get someone else to assist. Sean gives a relaxed attitude and talks to people. He would keep it from escalating. Eileen thinks she might not be so calm! |
1.18.30 - 1.20.02
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Varying Views of Grattan Street Medical Centre Other people who came to Grattan Street may see it as shabby, or somewhere they didn’t get what they wanted. Or there was no proper queue or waiting too long for something. They might have had trouble parking. Another person might think it’s convenient in the city centre and an interesting unusual space. “But they won’t ever see it the way we saw it. We felt we owned it. Or it owned us, you know that kind of way. Sometimes it just felt like something wrapped around you.” Felt good there. “Everyone loves Grattan Street. Put that on my epitaph.” |
1.20.02 - 1.21.00
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Definition of Patients and Clients Call people clients when working with them in the community. Patients in the hospital. Clients because they have some need but it is not always an illness. It’s always been like that in the community setting. |
1.21.00 - 1.23.15
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Anything you would change about Grattan Street besides the carpark? Could have been painted. Paint the door. Make it more attractive people to get a better sense of the place before entering. Improve the exterior to make people aware they were going someplace nice. The building needs it. Down and outs sleep out the back of it so there is lots of rubbish out there. Some clear glass in the office and take away the bars. Improve the canteen a bit. St Marys is fresh, new and practical. Grattan Street not much can be done with it. |
1.23.15 - 1.24.28
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Unexpected Responsibilities and Workload Eileen didn’t expect when she started out to be working so hard and carrying so many responsibilities at the age she is now. There was no reflection on where you were going at the time she started. She always wanted to work in community not hospital. |
1.24.28 - 1.26.15
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Future of Grattan Street Would like to see it occupied and whoever was in there was happy in there and the building was looked after. Nearly better to close off the car park. Eileen thinks it can never be sold off. And she would like services to be in there because it is an ideal central location. H111 European Health Insurance Card is done in Grattan Street. There’s a box shaped reception which was thrown up and is not in keeping with the building she would like to see that changed. Plaster on the walls. Holes in the ceiling. |
1.26.15 - 1.29.13
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Vaccines, School Nurse, Grattan Street Ghost. Vaccines- had to mind the fridges when she was a schools nurse. School nurses had to deal with AMO Area Medical Officer now called Community Medical Doctors. The room the fridges were in had no air-conditioning or coolant and sometimes the temperature would get too high. As a school nurse she would have to take the vaccines in and out and maintain the cold chain in the transfer of the vaccines. In St Mary’s there will be a cold room for those fridges. Never saw the ghost. And she had plenty of time to appear when she was there alone in the morning. Grattan Street was special. Met people with different problems. Outro. Interview ends. |
Mentions her brother’s physical and mental disability.
Discusses how the smell of tripe and drisheen reminds of father who died when she was young
Recounts her surprise and confusion as a child learning that her mother had remarried and her new husband was to live in the family home.
Outlines the routine on farm including looking after the cows, feeding hens, making bread, and how their dinner changed with seasonal availability of produce.
Talks about her commute to school on a bicycle with sister and standing up to boys who hassled them. Learned some subjects through Irish. Recalls her sister disliking being singled out by teacher because of her attractive eyes and hair.
Remembers seeing a young JP McManus cycling.
Explains how she always considered becoming a nurse. Discusses training and hospital experiences including with nuns. Believes that nurses who had worked abroad had a broader perspective on life.
Outlines the role of the Public Health Nurse which required entering patients’ houses and assisting them with births and deaths. Other features included the need to be able to read emotions and build trust with others and managing your work largely independently.
Describes some memorable cases as a PHN. A family singing Boney M to a baby with a severely lif-limiting condition. Waiting for an ambulance for a man struggling to breathe who lived without electricity. Trying to find help for an older woman struggling with dementia who was being passed from one agency to another without resolution. Fumigating a woman’s accommodation to rid it of fleas, the poor living conditions she found there and the ambivalent reaction of the woman to this health intervention.
Discusses vaccines, their role in eliminating polio and the varying attitudes to vaccination.
Recounts the story of social welfare officers in Grattan Street providing a bed to a woman who promptly sold it on the Coal Quay.
Reflects on the mutually beneficial mix of medical disciplines in Grattan Street and the positive relations between the staff.
Outlines the problems, changes and tensions relating to the car parking situation for Grattan Street staff and others in the surrounding community.
Talks about a child welfare issue where she had to attend court as a PHN.
Speaks of the deficiencies of the Grattan Street building including plaster falling off walls, the waste of paperwork, dry rot, bars on windows and a very out-of-date photocopier. Suggests future uses for the building.
Tells the story of the 2010 floods when the vaccines had to transferred with difficulty to St Finbarr’s Hospital for safety.
Discusses the desirable feature of the new building in Gurranbraher including it having a central meeting area and parking as well as being of a manageable size, accessible and approachable.
Reflects on how she found her career of helping others rewarding.
]]>‘Mary’ grew up on a farm in county Limerick, part of which was rented to a mental hospital to be worked by patients. By interacting with these patients she quickly learned who you could trust and who you couldn’t.
Mentions her brother’s physical and mental disability.
Discusses how the smell of tripe and drisheen reminds of father who died when she was young
Recounts her surprise and confusion as a child learning that her mother had remarried and her new husband was to live in the family home.
Outlines the routine on farm including looking after the cows, feeding hens, making bread, and how their dinner changed with seasonal availability of produce.
Talks about her commute to school on a bicycle with sister and standing up to boys who hassled them. Learned some subjects through Irish. Recalls her sister disliking being singled out by teacher because of her attractive eyes and hair.
Remembers seeing a young JP McManus cycling.
Explains how she always considered becoming a nurse. Discusses training and hospital experiences including with nuns. Believes that nurses who had worked abroad had a broader perspective on life.
Outlines the role of the Public Health Nurse which required entering patients’ houses and assisting them with births and deaths. Other features included the need to be able to read emotions and build trust with others and managing your work largely independently.
Describes some memorable cases as a PHN. A family singing Boney M to a baby with a severely lif-limiting condition. Waiting for an ambulance for a man struggling to breathe who lived without electricity. Trying to find help for an older woman struggling with dementia who was being passed from one agency to another without resolution. Fumigating a woman’s accommodation to rid it of fleas, the poor living conditions she found there and the ambivalent reaction of the woman to this health intervention.
Discusses vaccines, their role in eliminating polio and the varying attitudes to vaccination.
Recounts the story of social welfare officers in Grattan Street providing a bed to a woman who promptly sold it on the Coal Quay.
Reflects on the mutually beneficial mix of medical disciplines in Grattan Street and the positive relations between the staff.
Outlines the problems, changes and tensions relating to the car parking situation for Grattan Street staff and others in the surrounding community.
Talks about a child welfare issue where she had to attend court as a PHN.
Speaks of the deficiencies of the Grattan Street building including plaster falling off walls, the waste of paperwork, dry rot, bars on windows and a very out-of-date photocopier. Suggests future uses for the building.
Tells the story of the 2010 floods when the vaccines had to transferred with difficulty to St Finbarr’s Hospital for safety.
Discusses the desirable feature of the new building in Gurranbraher including it having a central meeting area and parking as well as being of a manageable size, accessible and approachable.
Reflects on how she found her career of helping others rewarding.
0.00.00 - 0.00.25 |
Intro |
0.00.25 - 0.02.29 |
Background Grew up in County Limerick. Dad died when young. Early memory as 3 year old feeding a calf. Trained in St Johns Limerick, midwifery in Glasgow, 1975 went to Australia- Melbourne, Sidney, Brisbane. Returned after a year. Worked in Orthopaedic hospital in Croom, Limerick. Came to Cork, worked in Sarsfield’s Court [Glanmire] in the chest unit. Met a man which is why she stayed in Cork. Nursing involved night-duty and weekends, and "Mary" was thinking forward and did the Public Health Course to become PHN Public Health Nurse- first assignment was Middle Parish based in Grattan Street. |
0.02.29 - 0.05.26 |
Early Memories: Father’s Death, Family Women with tea and USA biscuits. Seeing lines of men in the hay barn and animals coming out- must have been auction of the animals. One older brother mentally & physically handicapped, 2 younger sisters. Mental Hospital St Joseph’s in Limerick rented land from their farm so there was an income coming in without the mother taking sole responsibility for running the farm. It was therapy for the patients working on the farm despite being out in all weather. "Mary" thinks that many of the male patients were there as a result of the war. One man was called Sergeant. "Mary's" family also got fresh vegetables from them. Learning process for them, learned who they could trust and who not- “heightened our awareness of mankind”. Some people were fit and healthy and others had mental issues. |
0.05.26 - 0.09.30 |
Memory of Smell of Tripe Cooking reminds of dad When in St Johns in 2nd year of training ages 19 or 20- she had a memory of a taste and smell. Walking on corridor in 1st floor she got the smell. Found her way to room 8 and a priest was having tripe and drisheen or tripe and packet as it’s called in Limerick. You could get the smell passing Shaws abattoir on the way into Limerick City. They had a hooter which would sound at 1pm and 5pm or 6pm in the evening which could be heard by "Mary" at home. Says that tripe is the lining of a sheep’s stomach. “Villi”- nooks and crannies. Still buys it in the English Market on the left hand-side when you enter from the Grand Parade- and there was someone in front of her in the queue so she wasn’t the only one buying it! Advises opening a window to let the small out! |
0.09.30 - 0.10.35 |
Typical Day on the Farm when Growing up- making bread They had a cow on the farm. Woman called May who helped out their mother on the farm. They would put on their “busy coat” or “duds” to milk cow, bring in milk, make brown soda bread. Remembers mother making bread around 10am in an earthenware crock with sour milk in it which went into the Aga oven. |
0.10.35 - 0.13.05 |
Learning about her Mother Remarrying Tom worked with the mental hospital and he would call in and there was a china cup for him. "Mary" asked her mother whether Tom slept in the house now, and previously asked May where her mother was and was told she was on holidays. Subsequently she realised that her mother had married Tom and they had been on honeymoon. Reflects on how little information she was given about this change in situation and how it applies in her nursing role and thinks that sometimes less information is better when dealing with young children who may not fully understand everything. |
0.13.05- 0.16.00 |
Typical Day on the Farm when Growing up In winter deal with the cow: hay, water, and muck out. Cow let out in the field in spring and summer. Dinner would be any time after the cake was made- ready about 12:30. Dinner usually bacon, cabbage, carrots, parsnips. As season moved on more turnips and potatoes. Seasonal. Started with Ker Pinks then Golden Wonders, didn’t like soapy Aran Banners. Then apple or rhubarb tarts. Supper at 5pm or 6pm: beans, bananas, eggs. They had hens which had to be fed. Went to bed at 8pm or 9pm. In evening have to bring the cow back down and there might be 10 or 12 bullocks following you- nightmare that they would trample you to death? Mother and May made the food. When "Mary" was 7 or 8 years old May was let go as "Mary" was considered old enough to help out. |
0.16.00- 0.17.57 |
Interaction with the Patients of the Mental Hospital Looking out the window watching them. Sheep shearing and rolling of the wool. Taking off the “daggings” and rolling the wool into fleeces. Or bringing in the hay watching them piking and the change from horses to tractors. There was an archway into their yard and it became harder to get larger machines through the arch over time. Later on it became bales of hay rather than wines of hay (in Limerick) whereas in Cork they would call it trams. |
0.17.57 - 0.19.17 |
Animals, Games and Mushrooms They prepared the animals with special soaps for the Limerick Show in August [Limerick Agricultural Show Society]. As children they would sit on the walls in the cow house (cowhouse) and use the chains as stirrups and pretend to be riding horses. Picked mushrooms in fields often along the path the cows had made where you’d find mushrooms. |
0.19.17- 0.21.36
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Going to School and Standing up for Yourself Walk across the fields to get to the road to school which was 2 miles away, wear wellies if raining. When older cycled to school. Had the younger sister in the carrier. Fell off the bike coming down Ryan’s Hill and the sister fell into the bushes and the nettles. Mother gave out to them for falling off the bike. In 6th class coming up the hill on was home from school at cousin Mick Clancy’s hill boys thought it was fun to hold on to the carrier to hold them back. "Mary's" mother advised to throw a stone at the boys. The next time it happened she picked up a rock and the boys ran away. It was lesson for "Mary" for life to stand up for herself and that the threat was enough to work. |
0.21.36- 0.25.44
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School 5 years old when she started school, thinks it might have been around Easter time. Small two teacher school. Mrs McAvoy the principal of the school had taught her father, and was distantly related to "Mary". "Mary's" sister was put on the teacher’s desk to be admired because of her beautiful eyes and hair- which she disliked because she was being made to feel different. 6 pupils in her class in 5th class and they were given the choice to do History and Geography through English or Irish and they chose to do it through Irish. The teacher was from Dingle and from him they learned a “love and appreciation” for Irish. Had good spoken Irish in a secondary school in Limerick City. Her knowledge of Irish helped later on as a PHN when she was assigned an area which had a Gaeltacht in it. Most Gaeltacht schools were insistent that the PHNs did use Irish. "Mary" went to Secondary School in the Presentation in Sexton Street. |
0.25.44 - 0.27.57 |
Neighbour’s House and JP McManus on a Bike A little old lady, a spinster called Noni lived in road opposite them. She had old open fireplace with bellows, and thatched roof and two dogs. "Mary" had a step-brother and a step-sister. The step brother was quiet and calm in Noni’s house but he was cross and looking for attention when he was at home. A guy in secondary school used to cycle past in a red bike and "Mary" later discovered it was JP McManus [businessman and racehorse owner] and her younger sister knew him. |
0.27.57 - 0.29.49
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Starting in Nursing after School Always in the back of her mind to do nursing. Did leaving cert when 17 and did interview for nursing. Had started a commercial course. The Blue Nuns ran St. John’s Hospital and knew she was due to start in February. Millford House in Castletroy was run by Blue Nuns and they had a nursing home and "Mary" dropped the commercial course and worked there as a nurses aid. It was a good introduction and confidence building exercise for her. "Mary" thinks that for the nuns patient care was paramount and the written work less important but it is almost the reverse today. |
0.29.49 - 0.34.51
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Decision to do Nursing and Other Career Options Looking at magazines and what nursing involved. Career guidance consisted of blue leaflets. Through the commercial course "Mary" heard about the Junior X course to get into the civil service and the ESB jobs which she hadn’t been aware of through school. Travel was something that she considered and nursing catered for that. The nurses who had lived abroad were easier to work with they had a broader perspective on life and “didn’t sweat the small stuff”. When you started nursing you got to see the different fields and "Mary" liked theatre work and enjoyed the labour ward when she was doing midwifery. Matron had said to her that she should considered doing the tutoring course. Thinks this is because she was questioning what her tutor was reading out of textbooks. She applied for the tutoring course. But she while she had anatomy and biology for the leaving cert but not chemistry and physics. So she did leaving cert physics and chemistry that year but dropped the physics because she had also taken on introduction to psychology. But she had already gotten the Public Health so she chose that. |
0.34.51 - 0.43.07 |
Public Health Nurse: Role and Duties PHN you are on your own to some extent you can plan your day, assess the patient. Communicate with the patient GP and hospital. You were independent to a large extent. Had continuity you could see things improving or ‘disimproving’. House visits, vaccination clinics as part of a team, coffee or lunch in Grattan Street where you met other disciplines not just nursing. A mix. Could be rostered for a dressings clinic in Grattan Street. They might have been referred after discharge from the Mercy Hospital. Now the Mercy would have its own dressings clinic. Going to schools dealing with healthy children and teachers. Originally had an admin person with them but now just a doctor and nurse when going to vaccinate in schools. HPV vaccination a big team goes to try to get the first years done in one go. Health promotion going into houses and dealing with young mums. Private houses, corporation houses built in 1950s and 1960s, apartments or flats as they called them then. Leave a note for someone who you couldn’t find in a flat. Maybe a baby that wasn’t feeding very well. Hear that the mother has moved house and start detective work to track her down asking neighbours. And the nurse in their new area would be informed. Write letters to council about the poor conditions of housing. And then neighbours would ask for letters then as well. |
0.43.07 - 0.51.42 |
Perspective & Expectations of Patients on Healthcare Most people were welcoming and giving you tea that you didn’t want. A few were trying to get the PHN to adapt too much to their own schedules. For patients the PHN came at the beginning of life and at the end of life. Would be asked “do you think it’s better today nurse?” and trying to read the emotions of the other family members. Understanding with the GP about what the family situation was. Some people would ask for everything they thought they could get other families would never ask for anything. PHN has to decide how necessary a request is or how much someone needs to be persuaded. Try to stay on side and be persistent. Older people at the time had the idea that you only left a hospital in a box. So it could be hard to persuade them to go to hospital. Fear of lack of independence as well. Reflect on how nursing training prepares PHN for these situations. "Tread wearily" and "feel the vibes" when entering a new patient environment. Privilege to be with people in their time of need because you felt that you were doing something and you were a support to the family especially in the time before morphine pumps. Even saying “I don’t think anything is going to happen tonight” might be the simple reassurance that the family wants. Fear with a bedbound patient is that they would get pressure sores. One of the ways to avoid this is to change their position. And there was some education involved in ensuring whoever was moving the patient when the PHN isn’t there was doing it correctly. Extended family would assist with a patient in a way less common today. |
0.51.42 - 0.55.45
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Memories of mothers and their babies and music Remembers a family who lived in one of the lanes off North Main Street. “me mam” was what the family called the beautiful mother who had a lame leg, she had grey-blond hair. One of the daughters had a baby that had a life-limited condition. The whole family were supporting them. They were always well made-up and the sick baby was in the middle. The baby didn’t survive only lived for 8 or 9 months. The family used to sing “Brown Girl in the Ring” by Boney M and the baby used to recognise it and respond. Sleet and rain coming up North Main Street. Pound shop maybe called Powers Jim Reeves and Bing Crosby singing White Christmas which lifted her heart. Streets were full at Christmastime. |
0.55.45 - 1.01.36
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Patients and Cases and conditions in the Grattan Street/ Middle Parish Area Remembers rickety stairs leading to flats above shops which you wouldn’t realise were there. Old man lived in laneway off Grattan Street in a tenement house like those in Glasgow she had seen near York Hill, with red sandstone buildings. Went to this man on a quick “social visit” and he had rasping breath. Just “kippins” or laths on the fire. No electricity. Waiting two hours for ambulance to come. Man didn’t survive. Something else in place of the building now. There may not have been a door on the house you could just walk straight in. |
0.55.45 - 0.58.18 |
Patients and Cases and conditions in the Grattan Street/ Middle Parish Area- difficulties of nursing and dealing with different agencies. Woman with dementia in 1970s one room flat in warm house. Bathroom outside. Wasn’t able to look after herself. Had the newspapers stored on top of the electric cooker. GP trying to get her somewhere. Woman would lock herself out. Half naked walking across Sheare’s Street. "Mary" put her in own car and brought her to Our Lady’s Hospital to be seen by psychiatrist. They wouldn’t take her because of her age. Arranged geriatrician appointment who wouldn’t take her because she was psychiatric. A “street woman” (homeless woman) moved in with her and was able to make sure the house wouldn’t be set on fire. Meals on Wheels or Penny Dinners sharing the one meal. "Mary's" frustration with the bureaucracy. |
0.58.18 - 1.05.20 |
Woman with Flea Bites/ Flea Marks "Mary" being polite said told her it was a rash but the woman had no qualms about calling them fleabites. "Mary" got temporary eviction order to clean out her flat. Process was traumatic for "Mary" & the woman. Woman spent her time in St Francis Church while her flat was being cleaned. The woman had collected things from bins and stored them in her house in case she might use them and they removed 57 bags of rubbish. Found a beautiful photograph album. Mounds of rubbish as high as the bed. Bucket to empty into the toilet. Candles in danger of burning the house down. The woman was upset that her stuff had been taken but they had put her things in storage in case she wanted them. As PHN you can wear your own clothes but "Mary"wore white uniform in case of infestation in the flat. Man from environmental health section sprayed the flat. "Mary" counted 57 dead fleas on her uniform when she took it off in the bath when she got home. Later with her boyfriend at the time the same woman shouted “Hello nurse!” at her. |
1.05.20 - 1.18.38
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Vaccines, Vaccination and the anti-vaccination People were pro vaccinate after 1956 polio outbreak in Cork. Many people would have been familiar with Polio, its devastating affect and that you can be vaccinated against it. People had to come to the clinic 3 or 4 times with a baby which might be difficult for families with many children and buggies. Remembers vulnerable family in Knocknaheeney. The mother was poor with keeping appointments and she came in the pouring rain with 4 or 5 children. Cost of taxi was 11 pounds or euro even though she had to live on social welfare. The staff suggested that she could get a bus. But she pointed out that one of her children was ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) and that he would be climbing on the bus stop. "Mary" says the woman deserved a medal and reflects that they as staff had been judging her for her predicament. Crowds of people and buggies. Role of extended family in assisting with child rearing. Some children may be difficult to deal with. Obstacles to families getting children vaccinated. Vaccination card files. Brought from City Hall to the place of vaccination and not locked. Vaccines were taken from a fridge in City Hall and brought in a biscuit tin along with adrenaline in case someone had a reaction. Compares this to the modern method of cold-chain. After Professor Wakefield made an association between MMR vaccine and autism the vaccination uptake reduced and it’s been an uphill battle since to reverse it. In 1970s and 1980s there was memory of measles, mumps, meningitis and polio. "Mary" worked in a school where a child refused vaccinations in junior infants in the early 1980s. That child got measles, encephalitis and was in a wheelchair by 1st class and by age 8 or 9 she was dead. HCA (Handicapped Childrens Allowance) allowance handicapped children’s allowance financial support for the extra care that was needed for the child. Thinks of the scaremongering about vaccines and the consciences of those people if they knew what the result of not getting vaccinated was. That incident happened in the early 1980s. Worked with a doctor who had difficulty walking after he had got polio in the 1950s. Young mothers in 1970s and 1980s had mothers who influenced them based on their accounts in the diseases in 1950s. Rural approach to vaccines: if you eat healthy and are healthy then you won’t contract the disease. "Mary" says that while a weaker person succumbs to a disease faster it’s not a protection against a disease. Rural culture which still exists of “I don’t believe in vaccines”. HPV vaccines. With all vaccines certain percentage of risk even though it is very rare. Weigh up the advantages versus the risk of something happening. Vaccine cold chain from manufacturer to the administering to the child is much more streamlined. Incidence of polio came down so vaccines were effective. |
1.18.38 - 1.21.46
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Earliest Memories of Grattan Street Waiting room now it’s opened up with pillars and a balcony. When "Mary" started it had a ceiling and so was enclosed and it had a wooden floor where you could hear the “clip clop” of people walking across it echoing. They didn’t have access to the upstairs with stores and pigeons. According to Anne [a friend who worked there] there were stores of the things leftover from when Grattan Street was used as a dispensary/pharmacy/chemist. Old fashioned metal chairs with a timber seat. Queue in the mornings for the dressing, older people with big swollen legs. Mr Hart and Mr Condon were the social welfare officers and they would have clinics which had crowds of people waiting for them. People would receive bed linen or washing machines. Mr Hart advised "Mary" once that when he started out he was given a sob story and he got someone a number of beds and later he saw them being sold on the Coal Quay! Smoking was allowed at the time so there was the smell and fog of smoke. |
1.21.46 - 1.23.14
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Repairs and Revamp/ Refurbishment of Grattan Street Transferred to the City Hall while there was revamping or refurbishing of Grattan Street. Once they returned one of the admin staff noticed that a there was some dry rot on part of the wood in the jam of the door and more repairs had to be done. Beautiful once the repairs were done. Opened up the ceiling with the balcony. The big tea room could be used for meetings and there was a fridge and kettle- luxury! |
1.23.14 - 1.27.35 |
Grattan Street as a Workplace “You could never call it glamorous!”. Bars on the windows. Hose reel for the fire. For fire drills the bars on some windows could be opened. The people to work with were fabulous. Dave in podiatry said ‘the building was crap but the people were lovely’. Building was fine, serviceable. "Mary" had a sense of history of the building and that it was privilege to work in it. Beautiful cut limestone blocks. Appreciated that and the big windows. Anne set off the alarm once when she went out the back door. There was once a mix up with the keys. The cleaners would lock up and throw the keys in the letter box and someone else would open up in the morning with another set of keys. But somehow both sets of keys were in the letter box. "Mary" climbed in through a window that was opened and was able to open the door from the inside! Sean the porter would remember this story and Pam from the eye clinic would remember it as well. |
1.27.35 - 1.30.11
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Description of Grattan Street Historic, homely, old grandeur, comfortable but uncomfortable, people are willing to work and find solutions. Nice building at one level but primitive at another level. Staff were always lovely and gelled. Started with 3 disciplines and that expanded. People were caring and good sense of comradery, work spirit and work ethic. Old photocopier that was there for 20-30 years which was always breaking down. They used to repair it themselves. When they asked for a new one they were told “it’s not pride is making ye ask for a new one!” |
1.30.11 - 1.31.23
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The Effect of the Mix of Disciplines Levelling effect. Nobody thought they were above anyone. Meet people from other disciples who could make exceptions or give advice- could tic-tac with one another. It was very personal. You weren’t going into someone else’s territory through some doors. They all met in the tea rom. |
1.31.23 - 1.33.08
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Car Park No car parking when "Mary" began. Staff and outsiders could park there. There was some kind of grandfather clause which allowed non-staff to park there. There used to be agro between the staff about it until they realised they were all in the same boat. Then the Educate Together School opened up and they were trying to park their cars there too. It’s hassle. Manic at times. Compares it to Mr Bean. Residents had parking. |
1.33.08 - 1.35.46
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Child Welfare Case Child welfare issue was brought in front of Judge Clifford. The mother had issues with alcohol and depression (those problems could affect children not getting vaccines as well). "Mary" remembers child or 4 or 5 years of age with bottle in their mouth and the bottle had whiskey in it. The fridge had one tomato in it. What should the staff wear to court- should they wear a hat? "Mary" was obliged to call to the house as a result of the case. And the child was eventually fostered. Wheelchairs and how tough it was for families and children growing up and needing bigger wheelchairs. Makes you think how lucky you are according to "Mary". |
1.35.46 - 1.37.39
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Curiosities and Quirks of Grattan Street Building Pigeons could be heard upstairs and the exterminator came. Plaster crumbling off the walls in Grattan Street. Paperwork and records. New letterheads and they were ordered to dump things while people downstairs were looking for things but there was money being wasted on paperwork being thrown out. |
1.37.39 - 1.41.50
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Floods 2010 and Transporting Vaccines Vaccines were stored in a special room with fridges wired directly to the mains, there was a fear the power would be lost. Water was at the door. Vaccines should be transferred to St Finbarr’s hospital. "Mary" and Sean the porter waited for a van to come to transport them. Eventually a fiesta arrived with 2 big men. They had 20-30 boxes like cool boxes. They made two trips in "Mary's" car to bring the vaccines across town through the floods. Describes herself as a determined person. Onetime borrowed waders from Meitheal Mara on Crosses Green and walked to Grattan Street in them. |
1.41.50 - 1.43.18
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Future of Grattan Street Building Historical connection with William Penn. Would like to see Grattan Street be a visitor centre or a place for weddings. Could have a little garden or courtyard. Current waiting room could be used. Catering could be provided there as well. |
1.43.18 - 1.46.50
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Hopes for St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre Hopes there is suitable parking. And tied up thinking from the planning department and developers. Encouraging people to go green and use bicycles etc. is fine but closing parking isn’t the place to start. There should be a place to make a cup of tea yourself. Good service for people who need it and people feel they can access it. Hope it isn’t too big, and there won’t be sections that you will never meet. A central meeting place is desirable where you could meet someone you don’t directly work with. |
1.46.50 - 1.48.40
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Making the Building Approachable Easy access. Does there need to be a service for mothers to get up the hill to the health centre? Will there be a place for children to play in? People should be given specific individual appointments not 20 appointments sent out for 2pm. Access to water like a watercooler. |
1.48.40 - 1.52.00
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Decision to Become a Nurse Would choose to be a nurse if she had the option over again. Has enjoyed life and had a good home life. Have had lots of opportunities. Could have become pigeonholed in one area. In one way "Mary" feels she has cut herself off from other aspects of nursing that she was interested in- clinical and theatre related work. Rewarding helping mothers and children with bed wetting issues. |
1.52.00- End |
Outro. Interview ends 1.52.13 |