She attended school in St. Maries of the Isle as most children from The Middle Parish did and Came home for lunch.
Played children’s games on the street including: skipping, piggey, release, cat and dog, hide and go seek, thunder up the alley, playing shop, playing house, runaway knock
Speaks of enjoyment and happiness in simple things even in the straightened economic circumstances that prevailed in the communities of her childhood. Discusses the prevalence of pawn shops on how they were relied on.
Recalls joy as a child when they got money for sweets as a treat.
Explains how her father like other men at the time would repair their shoes at home. Her father worked in the Munster Arcade and the family took it in turns to bring him lunch there
Discusses the differences in social class at the time
Speaks about the positive change in men’s role in housework today
Describes an annual family day trip to Youghal for swimming and a picnic.
Talks about shops and the stalls and sellers in the English Market and Coal Quay where food was bought for typical meals including stews, potatoes, tripe and drisheen, skirts and kidneys, offal, offal bones and liver.
Mentions some Christmas traditions in her family.
Remembers hearing men having a regular parting singsong while leaving the pub at night. Recounts a humorous story about musician in the Workingman’s Band pretending to play his instrument in a parade.
Remarks on parents’ strict time keeping in her childhood which was a useful skill as an adult.
Describes what dances in dancehalls were like, especially St. Francis Hall. Gives description of the rules and functioning of the dances as well as learning to dance.
Outlines common diseases in her childhood, including diphtheria which she contracted. Describes symptoms of diphtheria spending time in hospital isolation to cure diphtheria.
Remembers GP Dr Cagney in the dispensary on Grattan Street and the medicines available on site from the pharmacist including Parishes Food. Further describes the dispensary, its waiting room and how the caretaker and pharmacist lived in the building.
Talks about religious devotion, mass going, the rosary, fasting prior to holy communion and confraternity meetings in St. Francis church.
Criticises aspects Catholic religious practice such as fasting (which she describes as manmade), confession and whether children can comprehend their First Holy Communion . Humorous story of priest in the North Cathedral who gave lenient penances for confession.
Describes candy apples made and sold on Gerald Griffin Street.
]]>Mary grew up on in a tenement on Grattan Street where there was a toilet in the yard strong sense of community.
She attended school in St. Maries of the Isle as most children from The Middle Parish did and Came home for lunch.
Played children’s games on the street including: skipping, piggey, release, cat and dog, hide and go seek, thunder up the alley, playing shop, playing house, runaway knock
Speaks of enjoyment and happiness in simple things even in the straightened economic circumstances that prevailed in the communities of her childhood. Discusses the prevalence of pawn shops on how they were relied on.
Recalls joy as a child when they got money for sweets as a treat.
Explains how her father like other men at the time would repair their shoes at home. Her father worked in the Munster Arcade and the family took it in turns to bring him lunch there
Discusses the differences in social class at the time
Speaks about the positive change in men’s role in housework today
Describes an annual family day trip to Youghal for swimming and a picnic.
Talks about shops and the stalls and sellers in the English Market and Coal Quay where food was bought for typical meals including stews, potatoes, tripe and drisheen, skirts and kidneys, offal, offal bones and liver.
Mentions some Christmas traditions in her family.
Remembers hearing men having a regular parting singsong while leaving the pub at night. Recounts a humorous story about musician in the Workingman’s Band pretending to play his instrument in a parade.
Remarks on parents’ strict time keeping in her childhood which was a useful skill as an adult.
Describes what dances in dancehalls were like, especially St. Francis Hall. Gives description of the rules and functioning of the dances as well as learning to dance.
Outlines common diseases in her childhood, including diphtheria which she contracted. Describes symptoms of diphtheria spending time in hospital isolation to cure diphtheria.
Remembers GP Dr Cagney in the dispensary on Grattan Street and the medicines available on site from the pharmacist including Parishes Food. Further describes the dispensary, its waiting room and how the caretaker and pharmacist lived in the building.
Talks about religious devotion, mass going, the rosary, fasting prior to holy communion and confraternity meetings in St. Francis church.
Criticises aspects Catholic religious practice such as fasting (which she describes as manmade), confession and whether children can comprehend their First Holy Communion . Humorous story of priest in the North Cathedral who gave lenient penances for confession.
Describes candy apples made and sold on Gerald Griffin Street.
0.00.00 - 0.00.21 |
Intro |
0.00.21 - 0.02.56 |
Tenement Life and Friendships Mary grew up in 44 Grattan Street. Despite there being tenements it was a magic experience. It was one big happy family, everyone knew and helped one another. All the children played and went to school together. 6 families lived in 44 Grattan Street, all had lots of children and still friends and went to each other’s marriages. Tenements today would be apartments. All had separate entrance but one main toilet in the yard. It was tough but they knew no other experience and everyone was the same. There was one family which was a bit better off than them, but they received the same treatment from them as everyone else and never interfered with their friendship. She still knows where all her neighbours are, and for going to funerals. |
0.02.56 - 0.04.08 |
Typical Day Get up, have breakfast go to St Maries of the Isle school [Bishop Street Cork], and most of Middle Parish went to that school at the time. Came home for lunch and returned to school at 2pm. And finished school at 3pm. Then went home, did the homework and went to play on the street. There were no cars on the street but there was an occasional horse and cart. Played all their games on the street: skipping and pickey. One of Mary’s happiest time because all the children were at the same level- no one was looking down on them. |
0.04.08 - 0.09.58 |
Children’s Games Skipping and Piggey Skipping and piggey with a piggey box or a shoe polish box taken from someone’s house. Mary’s sister-in-law once did not have any chalk to draw the boxes for piggey (or picky or pickey) [hopscotch] and she broke the finger of her mother’s holy statue of the virgin Mary and used it instead of chalk. Mary describes it as innocent, there was no harm involved. The statue was on the landing. They didn’t have the money to buy chalk. Still laugh about that story today. Release- game. Boys and girls were involved. 6 or 10 children all in a square drawn on the ground. One appointed to stay in the box. Someone would shout “Release” and everyone would scatter and hide. And the person in the square had to try to find them. Cat and Dog- game Place a small stick which is pointed a both ends at the edge of a kerb. Then take a bigger stick and hit it so it would fly into the air. The person who hit their stick the furthest would win. It was simple but very enjoyable. Hide and Go Seek- game [doesn’t give a description] Thunder up the Alley- game Lighting papers and put them up the drainpipe/chute and the draught took it up the chute. Mary says they should not have done that but they did, and says that they were bored. Playing Shop and Playing House- game Used the tombstones in the Protestant graveyard [St Peter’s on Grattan Street] They put all their “googles”? [8:10-8:20] on the tombstones and their friends came to “buy” them. They used coloured glass for sweets. Played with neighbours boys and girls. Run Away Knock-game People would claim they would tell Mary’s parents about playing this game but they never did because they knew it was innocent. Reminisces about childhood with friends now. |
0.09.58 - 0.11.21 |
Compares her childhood with that of today Things that she did people might frown on eg. playing on a tombstone. Mentions having a picnic on a gravestone on holidays. Contrasts this with deliberate vandalisation of graves. Wasn’t afraid of graveyard because her mother said mother said that “The living are doing the harm the dead can’t do anything to you”. |
0.11.21 - 0.12.48 |
Food and Meals Porridge for breakfast sometimes called gruel. They had tea and could toast bread in front of fire, no toasters. Doesn’t think there were cornflakes at the time. Simple life but great happiness. “everybody was on the same level” “we had nothing but we had everything” “we had love, happiness, peace and there’s no money can buy these things”, “If you hadn’t it you did without it.” |
0.12.48- 0.15.09 |
Pawn Shops There were loan offices available but Mary said they would try to avoid those because they couldn’t afford it. There was only one man’s wages coming into the family. Pawn shops were “rampant” at the time. Suits for Sunday mass were sent to the pawn on Monday morning and on Thursday when you got your wages you would get the suit back out from the pawn. “that was living in my time”, “no shame in it” People had to survive and get food for their children, and wages were small. “We managed”. Her brother doesn’t agree with her that they were the happiest days of their lives. If they got something it was like Christmas. “We made do with what we had.” |
0.15.09 - 0.16.32 |
A Sunday Treat A penny on Sunday from her father for sweets. There was shop across from where they lived. They could get bonbons and other sweets. 4 farthings in a penny. You could get change from a penny! Thinks most people were happy at the time. |
0.16.32 - 0.18.58 |
Clothes: Repairs and Hand-me-downs Fathers would repair shoes. They would buy leather form Davisons Shop [16:40 or Davidsons?] shop on North Main Street. Used a strip of leather to put heels on shoes using a “Last” [cobbler’s last- a tool similar to the shape of a human foot used to make or repair shoes] tacked leather onto the shoe Used paring knife to remove excess leather. And then “Blackened it with the polish”. Repaired both shoe heels and soles. It was expensive to send them to the shoemaker and they couldn’t afford it. Tough times but great times. |
0.18.58 - 0.22.57 |
Father’s work in the Munster Arcade and his family bringing him Lunch Father, mother 6 children 4 boys and 2 girls lived in one floor of a 5 floor tenement. Dad worked as porter in the Munster Arcade. His job involved work around the shop and delivering parcels. Munster Arcade and Cashes were the best shops in Cork, very expensive. His children used to help their dad. Galvanised pot for tea and bread and butter brought to his work for his lunch. Everyone did something similar for lunches at the time. Couldn’t afford to buy ham. No such thing as going to a café for them. Munster Arcade was an elite shop for people who had big jobs. The staff were very lovely. |
0.22.57 - 0.29.30 |
Father having to Deliver a Tie. Attitude of the Elite. Once a woman from Montenotte or St Luke’s bought a tie for her husband and Mary’s father had to deliver the tie at 5.30pm when he was due to finish at 6pm. Father often spoke, cribbed and cursed about that incident. “That’s the way people lived at that time like. They were up there like and we were down here.” She puts this attitude down to ignorance. “They wanted to be up there looking down on us” but “We were better off because we had what they couldn’t buy: love and contentment.” Describes a world of the haves and have nots. Feels sorry for people who have to pretend that they are well-off rather than being themselves. Describes her thinking as old-fashioned. |
0.26.04 - 0.29.30 |
Change of Attitudes to Work today. Positive Change in role of men in Housework. Thinks everything is “put on a plate” for people- that everything must be done for them and people are not grateful for what they have. Thinks it’s degrading to tell people “but that’s your job.” Men were never expected to do housework or look after children in the past and now it’s changed and she is glad. Fathers would take children for walks, fishing or to matches. But everything else was done by the mother. Is glad that her children turned out well, thinks it was worth her effort raising them when she thinks back. Recalls a recent news story of a 10 year old drunk and questions the role of parents today. |
0.29.30 - 0.30.45 |
Pub Culture Then and Now Describes how when men were paid their wages they would go to the pub, and how women and children were not allowed in pubs. Believes children were not allowed in pubs then. Thinks now women are worse than men from what she hears as regards drinking behaviour. Believes this is unfair on children. |
0.30.45 - 0.33.48 |
Mother bringing them on Trips, Youghal, Swimming Describes parents as salt of the earth. Had to be home at a certain time. Could play on the street as there was very little traffic. They were taken to Fitzgerald’s Park or Lee Fields for an outing One Sunday in August would be trip to Youghal. Train to Youghal. Thousands of people like cattle there. Train stopped near the beach. And came home at 6pm in the evening. People wouldn’t believe you had been to the beach unless you got sunburned. Swam in Youghal. No bathing togs! Sandwiches on the beach. Learned to swim in Youghal. Her children went to the lifesaving clubs. It was essential that time |
0.33.48 - 0.45.47 |
Mother and Making Ends Meet: Pawns, Meals, Food Shopping Mother pawned father’s suit to make ends meet. And not ashamed of it. It was the thing to do to feed the children. Remembers her mother cooking stews and potatoes. Big bowl of potatoes in the centre of the table and everyone for themselves with butter on them! Tripe and Drisheen- good for the stomach. Beautiful dish. The dug of the lamb. Milk, onions, mushrooms, thicken with white sauce, and add potatoes. Mary still makes it as a winter dish. Her sons like it but not her daughters or daughter in laws. It’s still sold in O’Reilly’s in the English Market which was only around the corner from Grattan Street. Kidneys- skirts and kidneys. Kidneys referred to as “sheep’s pooley bags” [pooley: urine cf Sean Beecher Cork Slang: https://corkslang.com/pooley] Offal and offal bones, liver. The main dishes for the working classes. They were not able to afford steak. Today people are too squeamish about offal. English Market: The Chicken Inn. O’Reilly’s Tripe and Drisheen. Everyone had their own butcher. English Market was very basic when Mary was younger. Coal Quay was brilliant on a Saturday. Cornmarket Street used to be full of stalls, clothes, people, tinned food. Annie Punch half way down Cornmarket Street a big woman and a Cork character- “The Mother of the Coal Quay” blond, happy-go-lucky and funny person. Selling second-hand clothes at the time, although now they sell new clothes. It was very popular at Christmas. There’s snobbery about going into the Coal Quay today. Shop on corner Twomeys was popular. People would buy their Christmas Trees and decorations- Annie Punch was the main dealer for these. Saturday morning farmers would come to the city to sell their vegetables. There were also local shops that they supported. |
0.45.47 - 0.48.26 |
Christmas Might not have had a Christmas Tree but Santa Claus always came. They had chicken for Christmas dinner couldn’t afford a turkey Christmas Eve night her own children were frightened by her husband dresses as Santa Clause outside the window. They made their own fun back then. |
0.48.26 - 0.53.02 |
Singsongs and Music Singsongs after the pub which they could hear in bed a night. O’Callaghan’s Pub for the sing song. And opposite the protestant graveyard was the parting place at the end of the night. “Bill Bill” played the trumpet in The Workingman’s Band used to play it at 1am after the pub. The Workingman’s Band The Workingman’s Band played various wind instruments. They would meet in the club and march up Grattan Street and they were meant to turn left up to Patrick Street but one man turned right and people discovered he wasn’t playing his instrument! “They were very happy days” Songs at the singsong: “Mother mo Chroí”, “Kathleen Mavourneen”, “I’ll take you Home Again Kathleen”, “South of the Border- Down Mexico Way” Saturday night was the singsong and they would all make mass on Sunday morning in the Confraternity in St Peter and Paul’s Church for 8am mass or in St Francis church. Mary admired that they all stuck together. The men used take their pint but they never abused or neglected their families. |
0.53.02 - 0.57.46 |
Dancehalls and Father’s Strict Timekeeping Dances were held from 8pm-11pm in St. Francis Hall on Sheares Street. If they arrived home late her father would say: “I said 11 not five past” wouldn’t be allowed go the following week. Feels lucky that they were disciplined in this way. Her father was very strict but that all parents were like that at the time. Gresham Rooms on Maylor Street off Patrick Street was another place for dances, which their father was reluctant to let them attend as it was further away than St. Francis Hall. The Arcadia was an enjoyable place for dances. At dances the men were on one side of the room and women on the other. Women would run to the ladies toilet if an undesirable man came across the dancehall to ask them for a dance. “What a scatter!” Ladies choice: halfway through the night the women would have to ask the men for a dance. You could be reported and removed from the hall for refusing a dance. Lists some bands and singers: Victor Silvester, Clipper Carltons, Joe Mac and the Dixielanders. Terry McCarthy had died the week of this interview was a great singer. |
0.57.46 - 1.00.43 |
Funeral and Memories of Terry McCarthy and Music in Churches Beautiful funeral mass even better than that for a bishop! Large crowd at the funeral. Well organised and felt like being in heaven. When Mary was 80 her family invited Terry McCarthy to sing for her and he sang great old songs not pop music. Thinks that pop music is unsuitable to play at funerals and masses. |
1.00.43 - 1.08.51 |
Dancehalls: Rules, Learning, Locations and no Dances at Lent You couldn’t refuse a dance at a dancehall. And you couldn’t dance unless you were asked. A “legger” was a bad dancer. Types of dances: tango, quick step, foxtrot, and waltz. Learned how to dance at the dancehalls from each other and from a dancing partner at the dance. They would practice dancing at home with the sweeping brush! People would help and teach you when dancing. Some of the men were very proud of their dancing and would be showing off. Could get a glass of milk and buy tea and cake later on. Dance Halls: The Arcadia was the main ballroom in Cork was open 9pm until 2am, near Kent Station. Gresham Rooms. Dance near [Collins] Barracks and near Tivoli. Cork Boat Club on the Marina dancing finished at 2am and then they had to walk home. Once a friend Pauline from the Marsh who was an opera singer sang on the way home from the Marina but a Garda arrived and asked them to leave. Mary describes herself as a “chorus girl” rather than a solo singer! No dancing or dancehalls during Lent. So they met at the same time and went for a walk out the Lee Road. No vandalism at the time. “We made our own enjoyment” They would talk about fellas or sing while on their walk. They all went and came back as group from the Marsh/Middle Parish. |
1.08.51 - 1.12.23 |
Illnesses Measles, whooping cough, scabies, diphtheria- which 3 in her family had, Mary was the carrier. Puts it down to lack of hygiene. Diphtheria was the killer disease aside from TB. Her 3 family members were isolated in St Finbarr’s Hospital. Doctor told her mother to put her uninfected daughter into the hospital with the others to catch diphtheria and recover from it. Mary spent much of her time crying while in isolation and having to look out the window at her parents. It was sad. There were many medical tests. Recalls a neighbour who had polio. |
1.12.23 - 1.15.48
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Dispensary Grattan Street: Doctors and Medicines There were 6 doctors in the local Dispensary on Grattan Street. each area had its own doctor. People from the Marsh/ Middle Parish had Dr Cagney. Dr Cagney was very strict, very cross, “what else can I give you now beside a car?!” he said to Mary’s mother. Dr Cagney was a big man and elderly at the time and his son became a doctor too. [Dr Michael Cagney was his son, see: CFP_SR00762_OConnell_2019] Parishes Food it was like a tonic. Everyone liked the taste of it. You didn’t need a prescription for it. You brought an empty bottle to the dispensary after having visited the doctor who gave you a note with details of your required medicine and your bottle would be filled up accordingly in the dispensing unit. Cod liver oil was also recommended and was got in the Dispensary. Recalls giving her children cod liver oil with an orange to improve the taste. |
1.15.48 - 1.21.08
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Queuing in Dispensary for Doctor. Pharmacist and Caretaker Had to queue up on benches for up to 2 hours. There were 6 doctors, Dr Cagney was theirs. You’d get a prescription and then hand that to the dispensing unit on the way out. Thinks she recalls there being a Dr Fennell there as well. No appointments you just queued up. Beautiful atmosphere in there. She would know people there. Mentions 2 caretakers who lived on site. She knew is as “The Quakers” although she never met them but was aware that they had once lived there. Beautiful courtyard. Two families lived there either side of the front entrance: Morrissy’s (the dispenser) and Lucey’s or Healey’s were there caretakers. The daughters of the Morrissy’s would have been friends with Mary. [see also CFP_SR00760_Morrissy_2019;] Would see their neighbours in the waiting room. Couldn’t afford a private doctor. Different doctors there for different parts of the city. The Cagney’s were very popular, Dr Cagney’s son Michael took over. |
1.21.08 - 1.26.50 |
The Waiting Room could be very full with people. if the 6 doctors were present. Convenient living in Grattan Street as they were across the road. Very few chemists at the time. Everyone hoped they would get Parishes Food illnesses Polio and diphtheria. They weren’t afraid of the diseases, would be sometimes delighted to get sick to avoid school. Whooping cough and chickenpox were normal diseases. Treatment for whooping cough was mostly rest. There was an old saying “we got over the measles” Her brother Paddy was seriously affected by diphtheria. Symptoms of diphtheria You felt like your throat was coming up through your mouth. Thinks about how her parents coped with having children in St Finbarr’s isolation ward when they had no transport. |
1.26.50 - 1.32.00
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Christmas Party and ‘Simple Living’ of the Past There was a Christmas party for all the children with a bottle of watered down rasa/raza (raspberry cordial) and sweets. Everybody was on the same level except for a few who were slightly better off but they All going to the same school St Mary’s of the Isle. Great neighbourliness. Thinks they were very lucky and that their parents kept them “on the straight and narrow”. Says there was a lot of problems alcohol and drink but not in her family- suggests some people may not have had enough money to pay for food due to alcoholism. John O’Shea [likely the same O’Shea interviewed CFP00774] wrote a book about the “Red City” the Northside of Cork. Much of the book Mary agreed with and identifies with eg. box cars, collecting wood and making bundles out of it to sell it. “What we had to do to make a couple of bob” eg the Pawn shops. People were happy to live that way she thinks. Simple living. |
1.32.00 - 1.33.25
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Quakers and Grattan Street The Quakers did live in Grattan Street, it was their religion. Mary says her daughter-in-law is working in Grattan Street. It was a lovely building. |
1.33.25 - 1.34.19
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School behind Dispensary St. Francis Boys School was at the back of the dispensary. “Rowdy Boys College” was what it was called at the time. Thinks that there is a private school in there at the moment. |
1.34.19 - 1.35.04 |
Happiness and Gratitude Reiterates that they were the happiest days of her life games as children, made their own enjoyment and is grateful for her good parents. And feels sorry for people today who aren’t as lucky. |
1.35.04 - 1.36.31
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LDF Local Defence Force Recalls the LDF (Local Defence Force) marching and as being part of the army and they wore berets. |
1.36.31 - 0.00.00
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Attitude towards the dispensary Dr Cagney lived on Summerhill North. His son took over. Mark Cagney the radio presenter is related to that family. Dr Cagney looked after Mary’s mother Mary. Says Dr Cagney senior was abrupt but had respect for the elderly which is not always the case today, thinks that sometimes elderly people can be treated as just a number. |
1.39.20 - 1.44.48
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The Franciscans They were friendly, spiritual and gave people time. People knew the Franciscans personally they weren’t snobs and you could invite them into your house for tea. The Franciscans were out more. Many people in Grattan Street were in the choir in St Francis. They also hosted a Christmas party for the children. Recalls them being funnier and more down to earth than regular priests. Went to mass in St Francis. St Peter and Paul’s was their parish church to which they went once a month for the confraternity meeting for rosary and prayers on Monday night and the following Sunday there was a confraternity mass at 8am on Sunday. Had to be fasting from the night before to receive holy communion. They had breakfast then after mass. On some Sundays they might have a rasher and egg- their father would get priority for a good breakfast. On Sunday would do their homework, go to Fitzgerald’s Park, Lee Fields to the outdoor baths. |
1.44.48 - 1.48.22
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Religion: Fasting Rules and Rejecting Man-made Religious Rules Today Fasted before Holy Communion and for Good Friday, they didn’t eat meat which was easy as they didn’t have much meat, but it is harder now for her to abstain from meat. Doesn’t fast on Good Friday anymore, she would eat meat. She has “no scruples” anymore about eating meat on Friday. “It don’t bother me” She feels she has “did my bit” and “we did more than our bit”, they didn’t have to do what they did. She considers these rules and restrictions to be manmade laws. She decides for herself now whether to eat before communion or on Fridays. Would prefer to go back to a basic, simple religion which would include going to mass and a few prayers at night, but without all the dogmatic things and novenas. Thinks that some people in the past probably didn’t bother following all those rules. People felt they were guilty of sin and felt it and went to confession. |
1.48.22 - 1.55.12
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Confession: Unfair on Children and Story of a Lenient Priest Mary used to teach young “itinerant” or traveller children for their First Holy Communion. Brought them for their first confession to the North Cathedral. The children were speaking so loudly that she could hear their sins and recalls one of them saying “I stucked out me tongue at me nanny” and thinks it was wrong that children were made to feel guilt and sin about something so small. People would say “you’d go to hell”. She thinks this was very wrong. She thinks that she took these rules to heart and Jesus never expected people to behave as they were required to. “Everything we did was a sin” “We went to confession shaking” “We came up the hard way, we were guilty of stupid things.” And says that their parents were the same way. They were chastised at home. Kissing a boy was considered to be a sin, but she doesn’t believe it was a sin in retrospect. Priest in North Cathedral who was reputed to say “God bless you my child” in response to any confessed sin no matter how grave. There used to be queues for this Fr Hart. Says that she would know herself whether something was wrong or right. Some people took sins too far, and some people would stay away from confession for years because they were so afraid of what their sin was even though it was not that serious. People went to Fr Hart in the North Chapel/ North Cathedral because of his easier approach. |
1.55.12 - 1.56.22
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No Sex before Marriage There was “very clean living before we got married”. There was never sex involved before her marriage. And she believes this was the right way. |
1.56.22 - 2.01.24
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First Holy Communion and Children Understanding Religion Was teaching the Northside traveller children in St Mary’s Cathedral (North Cathedral) as she was in the Legion of Mary on Brown Street. Doesn’t think that children really understand their religion when they are so young so they should wait until they are older, maybe 12 years old before they make their first holy communion. Recalls her own First Holy Communion as being very serious. Got dressed and had a veil and went to a photographer on Windmill Road. Everything was so respectful and disciplined. Mary returns to discussing the funeral mass for Terry McCarthy to compare the beauty and respect of that mass. Her own communion dress was made for her, as most people did at the time. Visited all her cousins for her First Holy Communion and “got the few bob” received money from family members and went home to count it on the table. She gave her parents some of the money. Thinks today that children make about 1,000 euro on their First Holy Communion and that this has become its real purpose and meaning. The church is full for Holy Communion day but the next Sunday they are not present. Mary made her own communion in South Chapel because she was going to St Mary’s of the Isle School. |
2.01.24 - 2.07.46
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Grateful for her Happy Memories and Good Friends Recalls her happiness and friends from school. Friendship, respect for parents, teachers and friends were her memories of the past. Still in contact with those old friends. Sincere friendships and bonds. “Always keep your friends” is what Mary recommends. She meets her friends to reminisce and recall things that she might have forgotten. She would never dismiss anything that happened years ago. [02.04.10 ] “I’ll tell you something now like” when she can’t sleep things from the past come back to her and she thinks about them for hours. Feels lucky she has these lovely memories to fall back on. Very simple living and they shopped locally. |
2.05.16-2.07.55
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Shops, Sweets, Candy Apples on Gerald Griffin Street The milk emporium the daily lived second-next-door to them and they sold milk and eggs, butter. Tuckshop was underneath for sweets. There were shops on every corner, you could go into “Candy apples was a big thing at the time” There was a place near the North Cathedral on Gerald Griffin Street where a woman would stick a lollipop stick into an eating apple, cover it in sugar and put it into a holder to sell it. Mary says that she didn’t expect to have been speaking for so long. Mary asks the interviewer what time it is, he responds that it’s after 1pm. One son calls to her for dinner but he will “help himself”. |
2.07.46- 2.07.55
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Outro |
2.07.55
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Interview Ends |
Speaks of the poverty in the Middle Parish which necessitated buying goods on credit and selling clothes and jewellery to pawnshops. Mentions pawn locations. Mentions bringing empty bottles to shops to fill them with milk.
Discusses the conditions of the tenement houses in the Middle Parish including the sanitation arrangements such as outdoor toilets and the use of newspaper as toilet paper, he also mentions heating issues including timber, turf and coal which was available via a voucher scheme. Further discusses cooking, washing in the tenements including the introduction of gas and electricity. Also mentions medicines for lice and worms administered at home.
Says that boys and girls played different games separately when he was growing up. Mentions some of these games in more detail.
Discusses foods (including tripe and drisheen, pig’s tongue, Connie Dodgers) meal routines and the shops where food was purchased. Liam and his mother brought lunch to his father where he worked on the docks.
Returns to the topic of corner shops and shopping and the types of food available there, further comparing this to supermarkets today.
Speaks of the death of his mother and the change in living circumstances that this entailed.
Describes getting a vaccination in the dispensary, what it was like inside and who worked there.
Mentions fights outside bars at night time.
Talks about air raid shelters built in Cork city during the Second World War, what they looked like and where they were located.
]]>Liam Ó hUigín: Grattan Street, Healthcare, The Marsh
Liam grew up on Henry Street in The Marsh and recalls playing football on Grattan Street which was busy and full of activity with businesses, pubs, shops a fire station, barber shops and tenements. He discusses some shops and games in more detail.
Speaks of the poverty in the Middle Parish which necessitated buying goods on credit and selling clothes and jewellery to pawnshops. Mentions pawn locations. Mentions bringing empty bottles to shops to fill them with milk.
Discusses the conditions of the tenement houses in the Middle Parish including the sanitation arrangements such as outdoor toilets and the use of newspaper as toilet paper, he also mentions heating issues including timber, turf and coal which was available via a voucher scheme. Further discusses cooking, washing in the tenements including the introduction of gas and electricity. Also mentions medicines for lice and worms administered at home.
Says that boys and girls played different games separately when he was growing up. Mentions some of these games in more detail.
Discusses foods (including tripe and drisheen, pig’s tongue, Connie Dodgers) meal routines and the shops where food was purchased. Liam and his mother brought lunch to his father where he worked on the docks.
Returns to the topic of corner shops and shopping and the types of food available there, further comparing this to supermarkets today.
Speaks of the death of his mother and the change in living circumstances that this entailed.
Describes getting a vaccination in the dispensary, what it was like inside and who worked there.
Mentions fights outside bars at night time.
Talks about air raid shelters built in Cork city during the Second World War, what they looked like and where they were located.
0.00.00 - 0.00.31 |
intro |
0.00.31 - 0.02.55 |
Memories of Grattan Street and surrounding area Shops and Buildings Grattan Street was a busy street with many businesses. Most important was the fire brigade. When the new St Francis Church was being built (Broad Lane church as it was called by people in the Middle Parish) the fire brigade amalgamated with Sullivan’s Quay and the priest of Old Broad Lane church moved into the old fire brigade building while new church was being built. Children missed the excitement of the fire brigade. Very vibrant street. 6 pubs: Kellehers, Crosses, Landers, Carrols (later called the Tostal Inn), Ramble Inn (owned by Mrs Brick) two Murphys public houses near Broad Lane which runs from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Shops and sweet Shops: The Rodisses, The People’s Dairy, The M Laundries, 2 Gents Hairdressing Saloons (called barber shops): Leahy’s and Keanes. Where the Community Centre is now was called Mechanics Hall, because the mechanics had a union and meetings there. Later it was known as Matt Talbot Hall. There were lots of tenement houses in the area. [Liam’s phone rings.] |
0.03.06 - 0.05:04 |
Tenement Houses, Lanes, playing in Graveyard Where Patrick Hanely Buildings are now there were tenement houses. Liam only barely remembers them as they were being demolished in the late 1940s and early 1950s. They were derelict sites for a while, which was his playground. St Peter’s Cemetery down Peter Church Lane, playing among the headstones, and hiding or planking cigarettes. Shops: Manning’s Shops at corner of Henry Street and Grattan Street, Mrs Mullins at corner of Coleman’s Lane. From Coleman’s Lane to Adelaide Street there were 4 or 5 houses there with 4 or 5 families in each house. Remembers Shinkwin? Family, the Dineens. When they moved out they went to Gurranabraher, Ballyphehane and the suburbs in Ballincollig. |
0.05:04 - 0.06.56 |
Childhood Games and Activities Very little Traffic on the roads at the time. Liam was living in Henry Street round the corner from Grattan Street. Recalls soccer matches from one end of the street to the other and wouldn’t see a car. Friends who came from Blarney Street or Barrack Street couldn’t understand why the streets were so wide and loved it for a game of football. If a woman with a pram approached while they were playing football they would pick up the ball or if they played near the Mercy Hospital they knew that they should keep quiet without anyone telling them and Liam thinks that has changed today. Many of his friends live in Grattan Street and everyone was a happy family until there was a row and they had a battering match with “stones down the quarry”. They used to swim by the Mercy Hospital by the ladder. And then on to ‘the pipe’ up the Lee Fields and then the weir and every second day they had the Lee Baths one day for boys one for girls. Today it’s mixed. |
0.06.56 - 0.11.32 |
Poverty-Buying on Credit and using Pawn Shops Could get messages or shopping on tick or on credit. Milk, bread, quarter (pound) of cheese. There was no bottle of milk you had to bring in your own jug. If you ran out of money the shopkeeper would write it into a book and at the end of the week you could pay it off. A few people could afford not to be ‘on tick’. There were a few pawn shops on the North Main Street one near north Gate Bridge Jones, another across from Coleman’s Lane called Twomeys. There may have been more. There was one at the bottom of Shandon street owned by Jones as well. There were 18 or 19 pawn shops around the city one at bottom of Patrick’s Hill, one by fire brigade station on Sullivan’s Quay, two on Barrack Street. People would pawn clothes. Tradesmen would pawn trowels on Monday morning. Often for drink/ alcohol. Wives would pawn husband’s suit and take it back the following Saturday for going to mass. Nearly everyone used the pawn it was the forerunner to the Credit Union. If you pawned a pair of shoes for 10 shillings, you got a docket and you had to pay 11 shillings to get it back. Wives would be stressed making sure they could get the husband’s suit back in time for mass. It was a thriving business. If you didn’t claim your pawned items after a certain period it was put for sale in the window. Some people would pawn things openly. Other people would hide it under a shawl, or pretend to be pawning something for someone else. People felt ashamed. Almost everyone was scraping a living. Even some shopkeepers looked after people who may not have had enough to pay at the end of the week. At Christmas the shopkeeper would give you a present of a Christmas Cake or Christmas Candle depending on what type of customer you were. |
0.11.32 - 0.13.02 |
Work, Pawns, Showing off Wealth Liam doesn’t remember what or whether his family pawned. Liam’s dad was a docker which was paid on a daily basis and his mother was shrewd enough to put away some money every day. He knew that relations of his pawned things though. Bracelets, wedding ring, engagement ring, rarely a watch very few people had watches. Liam knew someone who went to work in Dagenham and he came back a Dagenham Yank with a different accent “a twang” and a watch. He walked into centre of Henry Street, pulled up his sleeve and pretended to be winging his watch while looking at Shandon clock tower just to show off his watch. |
0.13.02 - 0.13.46 |
Telephone Phones were also very scarce. One shop in Henry Street had a phone and there was a queue there for people wanting to use it. There was another phone booth by Vincent’s Bridge coming down Sunday’s Well. Liam remembers playing there and being afraid to go in to answer the phone. |
0.13.46 - 0.18.37 |
Tenement conditions, Emigrants, Social Comparison, Fuel Poverty Laneways around there: Philip’s Lane from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Skiddy’s Castle from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Coleman’s Lane, Peter Church Lane (now Avenue), Broad Lane (at the back of the church), all on to North Main Street from Grattan Street. Conditions were basic looking back with an outdoor toilet. One family on Henry Street had ten families with one cold tap in back yard and one toilet between them. They had to clean out every morning and bring an enamel bucket upstairs every morning. Had an inferiority complex about relations coming home from England. The relatives would be dressed up in finery but later Liam discovered they were also badly off but made the effort when coming home. The story of someone’s uncle who came back from America after 40 years and the family had moved out to the suburbs and they had a barbeque. And the uncle used the toilet inside the house. He said he used to eat inside and the toilet was outside and now it is reversed! They used newspaper instead of toilet paper. Turf and timber blocks for fuel for heating which father got going out the Straight Road. Some people got a voucher for a peck of coal which might only be a large shovel full. Some families got vouchers for free shoes like in the shop Furlongs in South Main Street (owner may have been lord mayor later) Liam wasn’t sure where the vouchers came from- maybe the Health Board. Doesn’t think there was any child benefit. Maybe the Sick Poor would provide the vouchers. They would visit people and the people would try to hide that they were calling. |
0.18.37 - 0.22.42 |
Cooking, Bathing, Hygiene and Medicines No cooking facilities only the fire. Mother would cook pot of potatoes on the fire and then transfer to the hob. 1948 no electricity in Henry Street at the time. When they got gas in mother told him not to leave kitchen door open to hide it from Liam’s grandmother who lived upstairs and was the real tenant. It wasn’t an oven it was a thing on a stand with two rings on it. Older people were afraid of being gassed. Saturday night the galvanised bath was put in front of fire with hot water and washed, and if you were the last person in the bath the water would be dirty. And then the children were lined up against the wall to get a weekly does of cod liver oil, or Brutlax, California syrup of figs, Senna? All because of worms. Some newspaper put on the table and hair combed with fine tooth comb to get rid of lice- it was an ordeal. Brutlax was like chocolate but a laxative. Milk of magnesia used as well. Given those every Saturday night to prevent you getting sick. Some of them had a terrible taste. If someone got sick taken to the dispensary. |
0.22.42 - 0.24.12 |
Children’s Games Different for boys and girls Spent much time in the derelict site where Patrick Hanley Buildings are now, used to connect to Cove street. They had battering matches with stones and they were going to the Mercy Hospital 4 or 5 times a week. They used to play chasing hiding from the nuns around the Mercy Hospital. Could bring a spinning top and hit is with a whip up and down the road without fear of traffic. Girls would tie a rope to a pole and swing around it and skipping as well. |
0.24.12 - 0.31.57 |
Food, traditions, routines. Lunch at Work Porridge for breakfast which you eat if you were given. His grandchildren now have a choice of 5 cereals. Goodie- bread and milk mixed maybe with sugar sprinkled on it. Some shops on North Main Street like Simcox or Currans Bakery you could get bread wrapped in soft tissue paper which was kept in a drawer at home for when visitors came to use for the toilet because it was better than newspaper. Potatoes and cabbage. Father loved pigs meat: pig’s heat, backbone, pig’s tail, crubeens. Liam still loves a crubeen except for the trouble of cooking of it, and it’s messy to eat. Mother was reared around Vicar Street. Barrack Street, Blarney Street, Shandon Street: that’s the way people lived because there was little Gurranabraher built and Ballyphehane wasn’t built yet. Tripe and drisheen is still a favourite, can get from Reilly’s in the market. Tripe cut into little pieces, with cornflower, onions, “white sauce”, drisheen put in later. Tripe and drisheen would be weekly. Liam loved the pig’s tongue because it was lean. Set day for each food. Liam’s dad was a docker and he would cut the ear off the pig’s head, put it in a sandwich with bread and butter, wrap in newspaper and that was his lunch. He wasn’t the only one. Thinks tripe is from sheep’s stomach. Blood in the drisheen. Connie Dodgers for Lent allowed one meal and two collations. Con Lucey said you could have a biscuit with a cup of tea as a collation. Liam thinks it was Larry McCarthy’s bakery that made a biscuit twice as big as the normal one. For Lent had to fast every Friday and couldn’t eat meat, except for people of a certain age. Religion was a big thing for people at the time. Lent didn’t bother Liam’s dad. Dockers worked hard. Where Elysian Tower is now, where the Eglinton Baths were Liam went with his mother and a bowl of soup and bread and butter and a tea towel over it. The dockers sat on the kerb eating their soup and sandwiches and they were all black with dirt no washing of hands. All the work was shovelling coal, Liam worked there for 2 days and had enough of it- nearly wanted a small shovel to fill the shovel he had. His dad was small but very wiry and strong. “They were marvellous people” |
0.31.57- 0.37.05 |
Pastimes, Shops and Opening Hours Dad spent time in the pub maybe too much. People listened to the radio or sat in front of the fire reading the newspaper. Some people with go hunting or play football or hurling. Liam plays golf now but at the time it was only for the elite doctors and solicitors. Liam’s dad never stood inside a golf club. Liam was 10 when his mother died she would offer him tripe and drisheen or a creamy cake for dinner and he would choose the cake. The corner shops are gone now because of the supermarkets. Corner shops on Henry Street were: Bode’s?, Mannings, Horrigan’s, Dermot’s on Adelaide Street. Dermot’s was first all-night shop in the city- wouldn’t be there during the day. Open from 8pm to 8am. A salesman in coca cola told Liam that Dermot lived on Pope’s Quay and owned a Morris Minor car and he drove it to Adelaide Street 7 days a week and the car was ten years old and there wasn’t 5,000 miles on it because that was all the driving he did. In Ballypheane Liam sees people carrying lots of bags after shopping in Aldi on Tory Top Road. Liam remembers going to Dermot’s for quarter pound of cheese (3 or 4 slices), half pound of tea, 2 eggs, there were no fridges so you bought and you ate them there was little storage. Dermot would put greaseproof paper over the blade and cut perfectly a few slices of cheese which had come from a timber box. Girls were interested in the box for making cots for dolls. There was no variety of cheese available just the one block. Sugar was available in quarter pounds rather than big bags. Men coming home from the pub would be sent back out to get a box of cocoa or milk from Dermot’s. There was no one on the street after 12 o’clock unlike today when there’s lots of people around after nightclubs. |
0.37.05 - 0.39.00 |
Death of Mother and Family Living Arrangements When Liam’s mom died his aunt who had 6 children moved upstairs from Liam. She has 5 daughters and 1 son and the son died of meningitis at 4 years old. Liam’s grandfather was dead. Aunt moved to grandmother in Vicar Street to look after her. Liam was going to school in Mardyke, father’s place during the day, went to grandmother’s in Vicar Street for food and washing and then back to the Marsh to sleep. He skipped school for almost 3 months (‘on the lang’) until the school wrote to his dad, who gave him a lecture. He was nearly 14 then and on the verge of leaving school anyway. |
0.39.00 - 0.44.13 |
The Dispensary now Grattan Street Health Centre, Tinsmith and Nurse Lots of cases of meningitis. Everyone in Cork used to go to the Dispensary. Everyone now in their 70s seems to remember Dr Cagney. He would give a bottle of coloured water. If you forgot your bottle you had to go to Mr Gamble the tinsmith in Grattan Street. He made ponnies, gallons, billycans. But when plastic came in there was no need for tinsmiths. Remembers getting injection or vaccination from Dr Cagney, thinks it may have been for smallpox but is not sure. He dreaded the needles for the syringes which were “like six-inch nails”. You went through a gate, into a yard and there were steps leading up to the entrance. A grey-haired woman maybe called Mrs O’Keefe. There were benches like in a church. There were hatches. You queued up for the doctor. And the hatches gave you the medicine. Other place for illness was Mercy Hospital. Recalls a midwife Nurse Anthony who called to people’s houses. Liam thought when younger than it was the midwife who brought babies on her bicycle. Aunt lived on Thomas Street (a continuation of Peter’s Street) to the back entrance of the Mercy Hospital where the “dead house” was where Liam’s mother was laid out. Remembers the Quirkes and the Horgans, Glandons?, McCarthys living there too and they all moved out when Mercy took over the whole block. Liam doesn’t remember playing around inside the Dispensary. |
0.44.13 - 0.45.35 |
Making vs Buying Lunch People who worked in Dispensary didn’t live in area. Doesn’t think people make lunches for work anymore. In modern day people go to shops like Spar for sandwiches and rolls. Wives/mothers used to make “lunches for them in the morning” for children who were working and there was a can with milk, tea and sugar. |
0.45.35 - 0.46.14 |
Families Living in Dispensary Grattan Street Thinks Mrs O’Keefe was only working there, possibly the cleaner. Mrs O’Keefe may not have been her name. Liam doesn’t think they were charging people in the dispensary. |
0.46.14 - 0.50.55 |
Attitude to health, Pubs, Fights, Market Gardens, Childhood Mischief There was no such thing as being left on a trolley. The Mercy hospital was the only hospital Liam knew, and every child in the Marsh went there at least once after a fall, hit with a stone on the head, a few stitches. Although, Liam’s aunt lost a son to meningitis. Didn’t have the medicines we have today. They were simple times but he doesn’t remember going hungry ever. Lots of pubs on Grattan Street and people were spending lots of time and money which put a burden on the family. Saturday night on Grattan Street there would usually be a fight, stripped to the waist. Bonfire night used to be a great night but no longer. No awareness of mental health. Called the Lee Road the Madhouse Road. First coloured person Liam ever saw was on Sheares Street and when they saw him they called him “Johnny the Black” and they got a chase. A chase was very important for children at the time. Fisherman on Wise’s Quay near Vincent’s Bridge the children used to throw stones in to frighten the fish away and the fisherman would chase them. Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday the market gardeners would bring their produce on horse and carts to the Coal Quay and the shopkeepers would come to buy vegetables off them. Liam and the children would steal (“knock off”) some cabbage and carrots. “Oliver Twist was only trotting after us”. |
0.50.55 - 0.51.15
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Sweets You’d get a few sweets in Woolworths from the girls who worked there, to prevent them trying to steal them! |
0.51.15 - 0.55.10
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WW2 Air Raid Shelters in Cork Three air raid shelters on Sheare’s Street, 2 in Henry Street and maybe a few in Grattan Street, at least one. O’Connell on Sheares Street was in charge of air raid shelter no 3. Fear of being bombed by German’s during World War 2 mass concrete buildings rather than underground. Liam has photograph of an air raid shelter on Patrick Street outside the Victoria Hotel and a photograph of it being knocked down. The son of the man who had the key to air raid shelter no 3 would rent out the space to old children if it was raining and they wanted to use it to play cards. In the 1940s. he lived at corner of Moore Street and Sheares Street. They were being demolished in 1948 or 1949. Air raid shelter remains inside the door of Elizabeth Fort and there are 2 on the grounds of the South Infirmary (Victoria Hospital), they’ve now been converted to stores. If you stand at bottom of South Terrace and you look up at “Rock Savage” on top of the hill at the back of the South Infirmary you can see it protruding out. Liam remembers the LDF became the FCA and that their “top coats” were good as blankets during the winter as you could put your hands into the pockets. Nearly every house had an army coat on the bed. Everyone was issued with a gas mask, Liam has one from a friend of his. Everyone had to be measured for their gas mask at the city hall or in schools. Liam’s dad wasn’t not in the LDF but his uncle was and it was his coat that was on the bed. |
0.55.10 - 0.59.24 |
Grattan Street, Dispensary, surrounding lanes, Terence MacSwiney connection Grattan Street was busy, vibrant street, always something happening there. Can’t believe seeing the traffic there now. Liam took a photograph of Prince Charles stopped in traffic outside the plaque to Patrick Hanely Buildings. The Dispensary was a historical place, there was a time when Grattan Street was a river and Meeting House Lane from North Main Street (at the side of Bradleys) was the entrance to any of the buildings on Grattan Street. Henry Street was known as Penrose Quay. On Adelaide Street at the back of where Curran’s Restaurant was there was a square called Penrose Square- after the Penrose Family that lived in Tivoli. If you come down Coleman’s Lane from Grattan Street and enter North Main Street up on the wall there are four plaques for the building where Terence MacSwiney was born. People think he was born in Blackpool because they confuse him with Tomas MacCurtain. Terence married one of the Murphy brewers. Liam is very interested in Terence MacSwiney and loves talking about him, maybe because he comes from the same area in Cork. |
0.59.24 - 0.59.41
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Outro. Interview Ends. |
Recalls as a teenager being told by a doctor who was smoking to give up smoking. Comments on how widespread smoking was at the time. Humorous story about asking a Garda for a cigarette.
Story of Cork character ‘Kick the Bucket’, a young man who was convinced he was going to die very soon but lived to be 81.
Speaks of playing on the streets of The Marsh and The Middle Parish as a child and how they would go to the Mercy Hospital if they were injured playing football. Describes rival groups of boys from Grattan Street and the Coal Quay having fruit throwing fights.
Describes how as a child he used a skull from a tomb in St Peter’s Cemetery to use as a Jack O Lantern. Returns to the topic of underage smoking and acquiring cigarettes from adults.
Explains a form of recycling where he collected empty glass bottles to return to a shop in exchange for money. He used the money for cigarettes and matches or to pay for a cinema ticket. Recalls Dermot’s Cake shop on Adelaide Street.
Talks about his passion for fishing, avoiding the bailiff and selling his fish catch to local fish and chip shops. Tells of his fishing rob being confiscated by the bailiff and retrieving it.
Mentions children taking sweets from a shop on Sheares Street without paying for them.
Discusses income inequality and buying clothes on the Coal Quay. Explains how he made floats for fishing from wine bottle corks made by his dad’s friend for Woodford Bourne’s on Sheares Street.
Reflects on crime and safety in the city centre and tells the story of a house being burgled where the owner shouted out that he had nothing worth stealing.
Outlines some long standing Grattan Street residents’ concerns about their neighbourhood today including students, student parties, students drinking on the street, cark parks, bus routes, student accommodation, Edel House, increased traffic, methodone clinics, community Gardaí and the HSE’s use of buildings in the city centre.
Remembers Shawlies on the Coal Quay, including his own grandmother. Describes the products sold there and farmers bringing vegetables with dirt on them by horse and cart. Mentions Ryan’s Pub on North Main Street and how the farmers might frequent it.
Speaks of the simple food and meals he ate, and how his shoes were pawned but bought back in time to wear for mass.
Recalls the violence and fear of St Joseph’s School and wanting to leave to go fishing. Speaks of his preference for St. Francis School where he was not beaten and learned a lot. Outlines getting food and cocoa in the morning at school. Tells the story of a father confronting a Presentation Brother for an excessive beating to his son.
Talks about food and his mother making bread and mentions other foods and treats from his grandmother.
Speaks about fatal diseases in the past including mumps. To receive medication in the dispensary you had to bring your own empty bottle.
Speaks about the work of the Middle Parish Community Centre especially in relation to addiction. This prompts Joe to speak of his own story of dealing with his alcohol addiction, the risks alcohol posed to his health, liver disease, his desire to see his grandchildren grow up and his happiness now he has successfully remained sober for many years.
Mentions the Barrett family who lived in the dispensary building.
]]>Joe recalls the dispensary on Grattan Street, its waiting room and the names of the doctors who worked there. He describes in detail his visit there to get a vaccination as a child. Discusses medical treatments administered at home by his mother including those for fleas and head lice.
Recalls as a teenager being told by a doctor who was smoking to give up smoking. Comments on how widespread smoking was at the time. Humorous story about asking a Garda for a cigarette.
Story of Cork character ‘Kick the Bucket’, a young man who was convinced he was going to die very soon but lived to be 81.
Speaks of playing on the streets of The Marsh and The Middle Parish as a child and how they would go to the Mercy Hospital if they were injured playing football. Describes rival groups of boys from Grattan Street and the Coal Quay having fruit throwing fights.
Describes how as a child he used a skull from a tomb in St Peter’s Cemetery to use as a Jack O Lantern. Returns to the topic of underage smoking and acquiring cigarettes from adults.
Explains a form of recycling where he collected empty glass bottles to return to a shop in exchange for money. He used the money for cigarettes and matches or to pay for a cinema ticket. Recalls Dermot’s Cake shop on Adelaide Street.
Talks about his passion for fishing, avoiding the bailiff and selling his fish catch to local fish and chip shops. Tells of his fishing rob being confiscated by the bailiff and retrieving it.
Mentions children taking sweets from a shop on Sheares Street without paying for them.
Discusses income inequality and buying clothes on the Coal Quay. Explains how he made floats for fishing from wine bottle corks made by his dad’s friend for Woodford Bourne’s on Sheares Street.
Reflects on crime and safety in the city centre and tells the story of a house being burgled where the owner shouted out that he had nothing worth stealing.
Outlines some long standing Grattan Street residents’ concerns about their neighbourhood today including students, student parties, students drinking on the street, cark parks, bus routes, student accommodation, Edel House, increased traffic, methodone clinics, community Gardaí and the HSE’s use of buildings in the city centre.
Remembers Shawlies on the Coal Quay, including his own grandmother. Describes the products sold there and farmers bringing vegetables with dirt on them by horse and cart. Mentions Ryan’s Pub on North Main Street and how the farmers might frequent it.
Speaks of the simple food and meals he ate, and how his shoes were pawned but bought back in time to wear for mass.
Recalls the violence and fear of St Joseph’s School and wanting to leave to go fishing. Speaks of his preference for St. Francis School where he was not beaten and learned a lot. Outlines getting food and cocoa in the morning at school. Tells the story of a father confronting a Presentation Brother for an excessive beating to his son.
Talks about food and his mother making bread and mentions other foods and treats from his grandmother.
Speaks about fatal diseases in the past including mumps. To receive medication in the dispensary you had to bring your own empty bottle.
Speaks about the work of the Middle Parish Community Centre especially in relation to addiction. This prompts Joe to speak of his own story of dealing with his alcohol addiction, the risks alcohol posed to his health, liver disease, his desire to see his grandchildren grow up and his happiness now he has successfully remained sober for many years.
Mentions the Barrett family who lived in the dispensary building.
0.00.00 - 0.00.30 |
Intro |
0.00.30 - 0.01.41 |
Memories of dispensary and Vaccination Dispensary was a beautiful looking building especially as it was surrounded by tenements. Barrett family were caretakers. 6 GPs worked there and remembers 4: Dr Galvin (low-sized woman), Dr Jimmy Young (who played hurling for Cork), Dr Kiely (male), Dr Michael Cagney his family’s GP, delivered him and his brother at home. Waiting room was like church seats. His mother usually brought with him. |
0.01.41 - 0.06.06 |
Vaccination in the Dispensary Grattan Street Vaccination: his dad brought him. Front door was in Grattan Street. Queue of boys outside. None of the boys who came out looked happy, they all suffered from the fear and pain. Joe was about 8 years old. Instrument doctor had was like a branding iron for cattle or a bolt. The needle was the size of a nail. Dad held his wrist and arm very tight. His dad brought him for ice-cream afterwards. When he was 12 there was another round of vaccines and he was determined not to take them until he discovered they were like sugar cubes not needles. |
0.06.06 - 0.09.24 |
Fleas and Head Lice treatment Everyone had fleas and headlice, but some of his friends still deny that they had it possibly out of shame. Everyone left their doors open, as they had nothing to rob. Dads got paid on Friday night and there was a small party at the weekend- raspberry and crisps in the pub. Went to the dispensary to get prescription for head lice. When mother cut his hair she put it in newspaper and threw it in fire and you could hear fleas and lice banging. “Scabs and bits of hair here and there” You could see dead fleas and lice on the back of other boys collars in school. DDT “defestor” Mrs Shinnick? Pharmacist gave them a green bottle which smelled. The liquid burned the scalp. Fine tooth comb to get the dead lice out. The smell would last for hours. And in school the following day people would recognise it and know you had had lice. |
0.09.24 - 0.10.53 |
Smoking Doctor trying to get him to give up smoking Dr Jimmy Young (or maybe Dr Cagney) moved to a private clinic on the South Mall. Joe was smoking as a young teenager. If he was caught a neighbour would kick him in the arse before telling his dad. His dad never hit him but would put his hands on his belt which was sufficient threat. Dad brought him to Dr Young to be told how bad smoking was. And while he was telling Joe to give up cigarettes he was smoking a Woodbine cigarette at the time. People smoked everywhere except church. |
0.10.53 - 0.12.07 |
Dared to ask Garda for a cigarette Doesn’t drink or smoke now. Had to take a dare when asked by a friend. Friend dared him to ask a Garda for a cigarette. Garda kicked him in the arse. Walked like John Wayne for a week! |
0.12.07 - 0.15.30 |
‘Kick the Bucket’: hypochondriac ‘character’ in Dispensary A head cold was serious at times. Practically impossible to get a house call from a doctor. So they would be bundled up in sheets like a mummy and transported to the dispensary. Mother saw a man in the waiting room nicknamed “Kick the Bucket” because he was a hypochondriac convinced he was going to die soon. Joe saw him as he got older and went to the doctor on his own. Kick the Bucket died at 81 and the news spread faster than the fire at the Opera House or Jennings. |
0.15.30 - 0.15.46 |
End of Dispensary After a while doctors got their private surgeries and A&Es accident and Emergencies opened. The dispensary sort of dwindled out. |
0.15.46 - 0.16.42 |
Grattan Street injuries Playing as Children Lots of memories from around Grattan Street area. Born on Devonshire Street near Pat MacDonald Paints, and there was a big population living in the Marsh. More than 100 children playing on the streets around Peter Street and Grattan Street. Alleyways, where car parks are now, there were their soccer pitches. They counted 120 potholes in their soccer pitch, big enough to fall knee deep into. If you fell in you could twist an ankle or break a leg. Friends would lift you out of the way of the pitch but you had to crawl to the Mercy Hospital yourself because the match had to go on. |
0.16.42 - 0.18.59 |
Battles and fights with rival groups of boys Their rivals were the Coal Quay boys. Saturday evening they would raid the Coal Quay for the left over rotten fruit. They had timber palettes set up as a barricade and after 12 o’clock mass on a Sunday the Coal Quay boys would come. (had to go to mass otherwise someone would tell the Presentation Brother or you parents. Joe did miss a few) Battering match would start. Rotten apples. Soggy bananas. Tomatoes were the best. No stones. Whoever ran out of ammunition first you had to run away. 30 guys running down Coleman’s Lane would be easy targets. But the Marsh lads could spread out on Grattan Street. |
0.18.59 - 0.24.29 |
Halloween skull as Jack O Lantern from Tomb in St Peters There was no real fighting just wrestling. Maybe some fighting with firsts. No kicking someone in the head. Boxing with community centre against Mitchelstown. Joe couldn’t hit a small boxer and they had to stop the fight. Around the same time it was Halloween in St Peter’s graveyard all the tombs and headstones were in the centre not along the side. They were able to get into the tombs and went in with a match and were surrounded by bones in the dark. Didn’t need pumpkins they decided they would get a nightlight scandal, buy matches from Mr Barry and get a skull from the tomb and scares girls. Heard something moving in the tomb one night. His dad was a postman and he had a big torch but Joe could never find it when he wanted it. Always bring cigarette butts out of the tomb. Used safety pins to get the most out of the cigarette. |
0.24.29 - 0.26.24
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Cigarettes and getting money from empty bottles 8pm in the evening and at 8am the doctors and surgeons left or arrived at the Mercy Hospital, and they could’ve smoked in their offices at the time. Doctors sometimes threw away a cigar butt. Sometimes the children followed a doctor for 10 minutes and he might not throw the butt away! As they got older they went to Mr Barry’s shop and could get 2 fags (cigarettes) and a match for an empty bottle of Lucozade, which they could get from the Mercy Hospital. All the glasses were returnable at the time. They decided to take more bottles. 2 bottles would get you 4p four pence and you could go to the pictures (cinema) for 3p thruppence (three pence) and have money left over for cigarettes and a match. Tanora bottles from Jennings. |
0.26.24 - 0.31.03 |
Fishing for Money trouble with the Bailiff Dermot’s Cake shop on Adelaide street best cakes and creamy milks straight form the cow. Decided to take up poaching to get some money. Lots of mullet and salmon in the river at the time. Was rarely caught poaching because he could plank (hide) them at home within a few seconds. Sold them to Burns on Douglas Street, the Uptown Grill in MacCurtain Street (which must have lasted 60 years) the woman there said to bring over any more because they’re so fresh the blood is still hot in them! Mr Hurley the bailiff caught him occasionally and took his fishing rod and reported him to his mother and tell her to send Joe over to collect his fishing rod. He’d ask which rod was his in a room full of confiscated rods. Joe’s was the cheapest “Black Prince” but he’d get a more expensive one. Needed money for cinema and chips. Best two chippers: Hayden’s on Shandon Street and Kiely’s on Maylor Street. Wrapped in newspaper, lots of vinegar and salt. Tastiest part was to squeeze the vinegar out of the newspaper even with the dye running in it. Slogging apples down the Mardyke selling to woman Dooney Dawney. |
0.31.03 - 0.34.24
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Money & Sweets: Selling fishing Rod & tricking shopkeeper Sold the rod for money to an angler and bought a cheap rod again. He was a well-known angler on the Lee. Good anglers and fairly good anglers but luck plays a big part. Ahern sisters owned a shop a Sheare Street (Sheares Street). Penny bars and sweets ‘blackjack’, ‘cough no more’, ‘macaroon’ (Erinmore tobacco). Asked for penny bar that was up high so she would have to climb up and they would take a bar from the lower shelf. They once took it in turns to ask how much a bar was even thought they were all a penny and she eventually banned them all for life from the shop. It took them a year or two to get back on good terms. |
0.34.24- 0.35.55
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Safety of City in Past, Making floats for fishing, Social & Income Inequality Never any trouble when growing up. Joe’s 2nd eldest son is 38 lives on Northside, daughter on the southside and eldest son still lives in the Marsh. His children would say the Marsh was a great place to rear children. Where the Woolshed Bar [on Sheares Street] is now used to be Woodford Bournes the wine makers. And on the corner Paddy worked the guillotine to make ‘the corkies’ corks for the wine bottles for Woodford Bournes. Joe’s dad was a friend of Paddy & “they used have a drink together”. Joe would go to Paddy for bits of cork to make floats for fishing. He would bore a hole through the cork for the fishing line. “so we got everything for nothing”. Even got clothes from Coal Quay for very little. Some of his friends deny that they ever wore clothes from the Coal Quay. Joe thinks there was no in between either you were rich or you were poor. |
0.35.55 - 0.36.45
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Story of Man with nothing worth stealing Remembers old man second-next-door-neighbour and there was someone prowling around his house. He had nothing worth stealing only a transistor radio which everyone had so there was no one to sell it to. This neighbour shouted out “come on in if you want something. I have nothing and you’re welcome to half of that!” |
0.36.45 - 0.38.50 |
The Marsh today: Families vs Students Joe’s son Michael would still love to raise his children in the Marsh area, even with the volume of traffic. Joe thinks the Grattan Street area cannot take anymore offices or traffic. He says that the HSE have many of the buildings. Joe is lucky as he owns his own house. Married a Coal Quay girl Breda Dineen. There are plans to build student accommodation with 350 rooms on Grattan Street where the Munster Furniture and Hardware was. Joe says he will sell up and leave the parish if that is built. It will break his heart to do it but he can’t put up with any more. Talks about Edel House being discussed on the radio. And thinks there were a lot of “undesirables” in there. In recent times they were warned to behave themselves on the streets and Joe thinks that they do. He thinks that as well as genuine cases there are people looking for houses. Joe would like the HSE to take some buildings further out in areas like Montenotte, Model Farm Road and the Lee Road. He thinks that people who work for the HSE live in these places so won’t choose them for buildings to provide services. As a result buildings and services are put in the city centre. |
0.38.50 - 0.40.25
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Shawlies and booming trade on Coal Quay South Main Street, Castle Street, North Main Street when he was a child was booming. Joe’s grandmother was a shawlie. Joe’s wife re-enacts the shawlies. Joe remembers vermin everywhere on Coal Quay especially on Monday morning. Near where Bodega is now where Clayton Love’s used to be, the Loft Carpet is there now shawlies could trade in there too. You could trade indoors but you paid more to be out of the rain than trading outside. Joe’s grandmother traded under the clock and only sold fish- mackerel and apples. You’d be surprised how many ‘lords and ladies’ would buy their fruit and veg in the Coal Quay because it was fresh with mud still on the cabbage brought in by farmers on horse and cart. |
0.40.25- 0.41.15
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Ryan’s Pub on North Main Street and sleeping Farmers Mary Ryans bar many people went in there in the mornings for a ‘pick me up’ to keep warm. Farmers would abandon the horse and cart to go in there. Most horses would know their way home even if the farmer had too many “nips of Powers”. The farmer would fall asleep in the back of the cart and wake up in Blarney or Ovens. Joe would jump on the back of the cart without the farmer knowing and go out the Carrigrohane Straights which was the countryside then. Then they might swim in the Lee Fields sometimes in their clothes. ‘We were young, foolish but happy’. |
0.41.15 - 0.42.05 |
Food, Shoes and the Pawn Weren’t getting T-bone steaks at home. But they had potatoes, vegetables and homemade skull (bread). Was never hungry. Mother would get remnants of lino from the Munster Furniture and Hardware and cut them for insoles for their shoes. They had good shoes for going to mass which you had to take off straight away at home to be sent to Jones’s Pawn on the end of Shandon Street. |
0.42.05- 0.43.30
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School Violence and good teacher Hated St Joseph’s School because always got kicked in the ankle or had his toe stepped on or a clatter on the back of the ear for not being able to spell. Left there and went to St Francis School and the entrance was from North Main Street by Bradley’s Supermarket or by Broad Lane beyond the dispensary. Learned more in last two years in St Francis from lay teachers than he did from St Joseph. Teachers may have scolded them but never hit them. “Anything you don’t understand ask me” the teacher told them. Joe was watching the clock for when to leave, and watching the tides to know when the tides were bringing back the fish. |
0.43.30 - 0.44.50
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Changes in the Marsh for families: safety & shopping Joe’s son would love to live in the Marsh to rear his children. Couldn’t let them run around on the street with the traffic. But they would have Fitzgerald’s Park and close to Mercy Hospital. 5 minutes from 3 different supermarkets. Sometimes hear people singing or shouting coming back from the pub. The neighbours come to watch. Only incident he remembers in 36 years is that a few car mirrors were broken. Grattan Street is off the beaten track despite Washington Street being so close. |
0.44.50 - 0.46.15
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Food or not at School Not given food in St Francis School but given food in St Joseph’s in the morning “to toughen you up for the beating you would get in the afternoon”. Cocoa and creamy buns in the morning. A few years later they cut back to scones which weren’t the same! One time Joe didn’t get cocoa and a bun because his dad had gotten a promotion. And it upset Joe that all his friends got it. At the age of 10 or 11 he was in St Francis “the Rowdy Boys College”. St Peter and Pauls School was before Joe’s time. |
0.46.15 - 0.48.17 |
Food and Cooking Homemade skull or loaf of bread. His mother would make the bread. And nine times out of ten it would turn out right. the Hills were the biggest population of their aunts and cousins. Across the road from them was nanny Hill. Joe would get his dessert there. For school lunch he’d go home and get a sandwich with soup in the winter and diluted raspberry. Cheese sandwich- “poor man’s meat”. Very lucky to get a ham and cheese sandwich. When going back to school he would pause outside his house no 9 Devonshire Street. Across the road was 34 Nanny Hill’s house and she would bring over the heel of homemade skull plastered with blackcurrant jam which he’d eat on the way back to St Joseph’s on the ‘Dyke [Mardyke] only 5 minutes’ walk, but took him 10 or 15 minutes because he didn’t want to be punctual. He would get a punch from a brother for having a ring of jam around his lips. |
0.48.17 - 0.49.40
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School beating by Presentation Brother and boy’s father’s revenge There is a [Presentation] brother who is now married and living in Grange with a son and daughter. Joe would call him names if he ever met him again. A friend of Joe’s spent three nights in the Mercy Hospital after a beating from this brother. He made him take down his trousers until he only had his Y-front underwear on and beat him there with a four-foot bamboo cane. He was lying on his belly in the Mercy. There’s a black fire escape in St Joseph’s which is still there. The father of that boy had the brother hanging over the fire escape. People were screaming. And Joe and others were hoping that he would drop him. |
0.49.40 - 0.51.39
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Relief after school, Priest Friend assisting the Marsh Community Joe’s life began when he left that school because the fear was gone. He was able to concentrate in school then. In St Joseph’s the teacher was only interested in teaching 4 or 5 smart guys and the rest were punch bags. When Joe was 21 he had as good a job as any of his peers. The brothers were sadists he says. Thinks it took 5 years to become a priest and 7 to become a brother. They were young men who had never seen life and mostly put there by their parents. A retired priest, friend of Joe’s, ‘an t-athair Ó Murchú’ who was the priest in St Peter and Paul’s and is now in Belgooley. Joe goes down to him once a week on a Sunday and they bring him a creamy cake. When people were fighting for things in the parish he supported them, even when they weren’t agreeing with the HSE. The car park where Munster Furniture is the HSE were talking about putting a multi-storey car park there 30 years ago which was diverted to Dunnes Stores Car Park. |
0.51.39 - 0.53.03
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The Marsh Community object to multi-storey carpark People in the Marsh chained themselves across Grattan Street to stop trucks coming in to build a multi-storey car park. But they told the Gardaí in advance so they were on their side and they had no trouble. Joe knew the sergeant well and they used advise them the best way to have a peaceful protest and yet stop everything. Joe has many other memories but feels a little bit under pressure because of the recorder. Other things that they did ‘fighting for their rights’ because they could see offices and buildings going up that they opposed. |
0.53.03 - 0.58.30
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Problems with multi-storey car park and Student Accommodation in the Marsh Was in a meeting with the Council and Paul Moynihan from City Hall explained what was happening. The council own so much of the car park and building to right of Munster Furniture and Hardware. So if the council don’t sell these to the new developers there won’t be enough room for the student accommodation. Joe doesn’t have anything against students but object to their parties which have aged some local residents. Thinks in the past students didn’t behave how they do now. Joe & his wife decided they’d leave if the student accommodation is built, they don’t mind whether they go to the northside or to the southside, but somewhere on a bus route or somewhere near the city. Joe says he’s getting emotional because he always swore that he would die in the Marsh. Joe would like to see a small 5 or 6 storey hotel being built instead and there’s space for coaches. Or family housing being built. They named out other places where student accommodation could be built eg. The Good Shepherd building across from the Lee Fields and Joe was told the students would have so far to walk because they would be high-end students. Joe says the students behave like riff-raff when they are drunk. He was told the accommodation would have security. Joe knows one of the security men for the student accommodation on Lancaster Quay and they are behaved inside the complex but outside there is no control. Joe fears that students will be drinking in doorways in the Marsh or outside on tables which are being built for them to study on. Joe said that if they are 320 high-end students they will have cars and nowhere to park them, and they will have more money for alcohol. So Joe said the riff-raff students would be better! Joe can’t believe a walk from St Anne’s to UCC is too far. |
0.58.30 - 1.04.41
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Sicknesses past and changes now People died from diseases which no one knew what caused them. Some diseases that were killing people have simple cures now. Joe is more concerned about sicknesses today including insects like ticks and leeches. They would go to the dispensary for medication and prescription. If anything was too serious they would send you to the A&E but first get you to sign a form saying you had visited him so that he could get paid. Lots of measles. Chickenpox. Mumps used to be a killer disease especially for men as it could make you impotent. If you went to get medication from the Dispensary you had to bring your own empty bottle. Completely different attitude from doctors now. Might have been given tablets even if there was nothing wrong with you. People who were sent to St Anne’s because of a drinking/ alcohol problem for a few weeks but never came out. Joe didn’t get a clip in the ear growing up but he did do it for his children. Joe used to drink and just wanted to sleep after it. He thinks that women today wouldn’t take the abuse that women used to put up with. One man who went to St Anne’s was signed out by his niece years later and he was afraid of the double-decker bus and went back in of his free will to St Anne’s. |
1.04.41 - 1.06.53
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Issues with HSE Services in the city Centre Joe hopes HSE look elsewhere for offices rather than in the city centre. Methodone clinics around Cork Joe was told need to be in the city because they won’t travel for it which means it needs to be near Grattan Street. There’s a Community Garda. But Joe and his wife have not seen a Garda on the beat for three weeks. |
1.06.53 - 1.09.04
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Work of the Middle Parish Community Centre Joe and others including George [Patterson] do their best to keep the Middle Parish Community Centre going. Narcotics anonymous rent out a room upstairs. Alcoholics Anonymous, Gamblers Anonymous. There’s been no vandalism. Joe saw a man he knew going to Narcotics Anonymous outside La Verna near St Francis Church and he shook his hand because he was proud of him for trying to give up. |
1.09.04 - 1.26.27
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Experiences as an alcoholic and trying to give up Joe describes himself as a “dry alcoholic”. Joe hasn’t drunk for six years. He didn’t realise he had a drink problem because he was never aggressive or barred from anywhere. It took Joe years to realise he was unable to home after work without first going to the pub. And that he was having a few pints in a number of bars and that this was adding up to ten pints a night. He decided eventually that he would stop. If someone had told him that he had a drink problem he would have been “highly insulted” and thought he could stop drinking any time he wanted. He went to a few AA meetings and they didn’t suit him. He used to smoke 55/60 cigarettes a day while driving articulated trucks long distance for 35 years all over Ireland. He gave up cigarettes and thought it would be easier to give up alcohol. Ten years ago he gave up alcohol for 2 years. Alcoholics’ Anonymous saying is ‘one day at a time’. He was down in Inchydoney Hotel with his family and dogs. He was tired after lots of driving to Dublin, Wicklow and delivering salt to Killybegs. He kept track of his progress being off alcohol and appreciated the support of his wife. He went into the hotel and had some coke. The Munster Final was on. While waiting at a busy bar for more Coke he saw two men he knew drinking stout. And he ordered a pint of Murphys stout after he saw them. He made ten attempts to leave the pint there, but it overpowered him. He had a devil on one shoulder and a guardian angel on the other. He usually drank a pint in four sups. He went close to the toilet for his first sup in case he was sick from not being used to drinking after two years. He ordered a half-pint of Murphys. He felt fairly content because he felt he could handle the alcohol now. He had two pints of Beamish in Forde’s with a friend of his on a Friday. And slowly he was having more pints and on Wednesdays as well as Fridays until “the drink had a hold of me again”. He knew he couldn’t handle whiskey. Collapsed three times due to liver poisoning. He had to come home from Turkey when he collapsed, his doctor said they saved his life. He wasn’t allowed to eat or drink for 4 days. His GP was waiting for him at midnight when he arrived home in Cork and brought him to the Mercy. He told Joe he was lucky because his liver function was only at 52% working. It took 17 hours for his liver to get to 53% working. After a few weeks he started drinking again. He collapsed at home one morning unconscious for 20 seconds. GP took tests. Went to the Regional Hospital and put in intensive care. Dr Seamus O’Mahony was his liver specialist out there. Seamus told him not to waste his time if he was going to keep drinking and not to come to him without his wife because she would tell the truth about his drinking. Doctor asked him how many units he drank and Joe asked to speak in pints not units. Joe said 20 pints. The doctor said that’s a lot to have in a week. And Joe’s wife said that’s on a Saturday! Two drinking sessions on a Saturday. He was getting liver function tests on a regular basis and his liver was getting stronger. Joe used to give up alcohol two days before going to the doctor but didn’t realise that alcohol makes triglycerides in the body which take days to be broken down. Joe used drink cans of beer at home when his wife was away. He would vomit it up after two ‘slugs’ or gulps. And then he would try to drink it again. He said that you have to admit it to yourself that you have a problem. He realised that if he didn’t stop he wouldn’t see his five grand-children grow up. He has never been happier than he is now sober. His children can ring him at any time for a lift. And his children can depend on him. Joe still takes one day at a time. Joe knew a guy who was 33 years sober and he went to London and started drinking and was knocked down by a bus. |
1.26.27 - 1.28.44
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Family living in the Dispensary building Grattan Street Barrett family who lived in the Dispensary had children who are still alive living in southside who would be older than him. “they were all genuine down to earth people”. To the left of where the marriage registrar is now is where they lived. On the right hand side was an old lady sitting in a box like a phone box cut in half. And she would take people’s details as they entered. The double doors to the clinic were closed. The Barrett sons went to St Joseph’s School as well. Joe jokes about a previous interview I had with a friend of his Liam O hUiginn, and jokingly says he’s a very old man. Joe also apologises again for not being used to “speaking in public” pointing at the digital recorder. |
1.28.44 - 1.28.55
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Outro. Interview ends. |