0.00.35 - 0.02.25 |
House of Birth. She was born in 88 Wolfe Tone Street, maiden name Cambridge. Her father was Denis and her mother was Margaret O’Connor. She speaks of her family being twelve in total, six boys and six girls. She talks about growing up in Wolfe Tone Street. She lived in a tenement of about five or six floors with the ground floor occupied by the ‘caretaker’, a couple. Each floor cleaned their own and she remarks that she had a very good life even in the tenement. |
0.02.26 - 0.04.26 |
Schooling. She went to St. Vincent’s Convent School, and remained there until second class. She recounts an event in school when a lay teacher made a public display of her for failing to answer a question in class and that sense of humiliation experienced never left her memory. After that event she switched to North Presentation school, she was around 8 years old at the time, and finished her schooling there. She left the North Pres before she was fourteen and went to work. |
0.04.26- 0.07.27 |
First Job in Shoe Factory. She talks of her one and only job in Cork she had that of a Shoe Factory on Hanover Street where the present Labour Exchange is situated, owned by Dwyers. She found working there to be ‘okay’. She makes a general observation that in her life she never met ‘horrible people’, yet brings up that incident with the teacher again. She stayed in Dwyer’s until she was twenty one or two until after meeting her husband when they decided to go to England. Her mother was angry at her for giving up a ‘good job’ with pay at three pounds seven and six pence a week. She found the Dwyer’s to be good people to work for. They also had Lee Boot on Washington Street where Square Deal is now. There was no doctor on site as at the Sunbeam but there was a doctor on the South Mall that you could visit. She remembers the doctors rooms opposite the Victoria Hotel. |
0.07.28 - 0.11.56 |
Time in England and marriage. She speaks of her time in England. She got married there. She worked in factory jobs, one of which did remote controls on the floor where she worked. She went to Birmingham first and then up to London. She got married in 1952. Never experienced anti-Irish prejudice while there. Her husband’s name was James but they called him ‘Jimmy’. He was a crane driver when she was over there with him. He was working in the railway as a fireman when he went to England first, before Elizabeth met him. She met him in Cork after he returned briefly. Only stayed in England for a few years and decided to come back after Elizabeth became pregnant. They almost went to Australia after a scheme came out trying to entice people to live there. The scheme assisted you in the fare out there, ten pounds. They had all the forms signed to go out after getting each round of papers signed by a priest or a Guard, which cost one shilling. Just at the final stage of going when she became pregnant and she had morning sickness and that ended that endeavour. |
0.11.57 - 0.14.07 |
Return to Cork and finding her home. She talks of returning to Cork to live with Jimmy’s parents at 53 Kent Road, Ballyphehane. She says then that she lived first with Jimmy’s grandmother in an old run down cottage house in a laneway off where the Bridewell Garda Station is. There was about eight houses there but she felt a bit frightened there by its darkness and isolation. They were condemned and people living there expected to get Corporation Houses soon. But Jimmy’s parents knew a man on Pearce Road who had a good job in the Corporation and he put a good word for them and they got the house at 60 Kent Road after it became vacant. |
0.14.08 - 0.16.24 |
Ballyphehane before and during development. She talks of Ballyphehane before it was built up fully. She wouldn’t have visited Ballyphehane when she was younger. Only the little houses in O’Growney Crescent were there, maybe not all of them, when she was growing up. Part of Pearce Road and part of Connolly Road was also there. The place along Connolly Road at the crossroads by the Park was all earth the way down. She doesn’t remember any market gardens around here but recalls a family a few doors up, the Varians, who came from the market gardens. She remembers construction up by Sonny Fords, the shop, and she was asked to call Georgie who was working on the flats for the Corporation after a woman across the way had died. |
0.16.27 - 0.19.44 |
Ballyphehane Church and Credit Union. They were there before the Church. They started the Church when Elizabeth came to Ballyphehane. She remembers a man who used to visit each house with his book collecting subscriptions for the Church, a shilling a week. The man who did the collection was a mason, the Hurley’s and he went to America afterwards and is still there. She talks of the Credit Union but you had to pay half a crown to join and you would get a little pink book. At that time it was over at the sacristy at the Church and you joined over there because they were building the new Credit Union. You had to have thirty euros [pounds? Shillings?] saved before you could borrow ten. Great service – and she remembers that it was a priest who first set it up after he went to America and brought the idea back here. He organised meetings for the local people in relation to the idea. She thinks O’Flynn was his name…died in the plane. It was all run by volunteers. She remembers David McAuiliffe, known locally as ‘Uncle Dave’ in relation to it. Elizabeth worked with him. |
0.19.45 - 0.25.27 |
Buying household goods and groceries. She talks of her husband getting seven or eight pounds as wages for the week when she got married first. You would buy something with the two week holiday money he would receive. She bought her first fridge out in Togher for thirty five pounds. That would mean there would be no holiday but instead you have a washing machine and fridge. She talks about shopping for groceries and the Spar coming. First was the ‘Bally’, the ‘Ballyphehane Stores’ down the road where the AIB is now. When you got a bit more money you go to the supermarket, to Dunnes Stores. She talks of Luke Burke’s having a shop in Patrick Street and when he closed down Ben Dunne bought that. She recalls seeing a man in a café in town with her daughter Mary (who worked in Dunnes Stores) who ran the original Dunnes Stores back then and who featured in a documentary recently. Jackie talks about what shopping was like in there and mentions the people working in there some of whom were local and mentions a Mona O’Donovan. |
0.25.30 - 0.31.09 |
Living in Gurranabraher with her family. Elizabeth speaks briefly on living in Gurranabraher and then recounts playing with her brother Paddy and him falling after she used to pretend he was a horse and she the driver on their way down to her grandparents who lived in the laneway off Wolfe Tone Street. She talks about her grandparents and their house which was a two roomed house which formed most of it and how they used to pawn items when they were on ‘the binge’ and how her mother would try to avoid them in street by going different route to town when they were in that state. There was eight [children?] in her grandmother’s house. Her mother married young. Two girls died of TB as it was rampant at the time. Her mother’s maiden name was Margaret Babbington. She doesn’t know much about the Babbingtons. She couldn’t remember her grandfather working. |
0.31.18 - 0.38.12 |
Her father and WW1. James, Elizabeth’s grandson, mentions that her father (his great-grandfather) fought in World War One and Elizabeth urges him to speak on it as he knows more than her. James then recounts a story that he was told that the grandfather was fighting with the British Army and during this particular military engagement the healthiest and fittest were out in front and those that were injured were left behind and the priest, or ‘padre’ as they were called asked for volunteers to remain behind with the wounded which would have put their lives in danger. His great-grandfather volunteered and helped the priest by getting stretchers up to the wounded. His bravery was rewarded by a special medal and they have a very good photo of him in uniform. Elizabeth then remembers when she was younger and the medals being in the chest of drawers upstairs in the main bedroom, one of three. She remembers the medals being in there but she doesn’t know where they went subsequently. Her sister’s grandson did the research on the subject and unearthed the story of the bravery medal and James himself is involved in Camden Fort and the World War One room there and hope to do something on Denis Cambridge there for that. He then says that his grandfather became very good friends with the war chaplain, who was Archdeacon Duggan. Elizabeth then speaks about him and the easy way of him as he visited them in their house in Gurranabraher. She also relates a story of how she met him once and he said to her that her father was such a good man he went straight to heaven and brave as well. Elizabeth adds that her father was a very, very quite man, nice man. He never seemed to be affected by the war and he never talked about it. He died young of cancer at the age of fifty-six. Her grand-nephew and grandson have replica medals. She doesn’t remember any negative reaction to him being in the British Army after he came back. He worked as a labourer in timber yard. |
0.38.13 - 0.42.29 |
TB and Cork. Elizabeth talks about TB not affecting her family as they had cleared it in Cork but it did kill her two aunts on her mother side. They were young women. She relates that she know a number of people, male and female, who worked in the shoe factory in Hanover Street that died of TB. They used to say it was due to the river by the factory. They were young people. They used to go down to Sarsfield Court and Mount Desert. She believes most people died from it because they had no drugs. Discussion about conditions for TB and Elizabeth recounts her tenement house on Wolfe Tone Street having only one toilet with children on every floor but it was kept spotless due to the caretaker couple who made sure everyone cleaned their own part. Jimmy’s parents used to live in a tenement on Peter Street where they had only one toilet as well but no running water. You would have to go out on the street to a water pump and fill your container and bring it back up to the top floor where they lived. |
0.42.30 - 0.46.11 |
Arrival of Electricity and the near death of her brothers. She talks about the change-over to new energy sources from gas to electricity. There was only gas in the house in Gurranabraher but then they put in electricity and light would come on with a switch. She recalls how her two brothers were nearly killed by a leakage from the gas piping after they removed the gas fittings in the house as they slept in their bedroom. They were saved by their aunt who lived with them as well as she heard them groaning. She couldn’t get help as they taught it was a hoax when she rang for help as that night was a bad night weather wise and a lot of hoaxes were being rang in. Her aunt ran in her bare feet to the Garda Station at the end of Rock Steps on the North Mall just beyond O’Connor’s funeral home to get help. They both survived. |
0.46.12 - 0.48.54 |
Arrival in new home. She talks about moving into her new house in Kent Road. She was delighted to have her own house, her own front door and key. She had one child, Stephen, when she moved in. Denis was born in the house. She had six children in total and then mentions that she had seven as one child died. She then talks about the family company she has in the house and how she liked that after her husband died. She loves her house. |
0.48.55 - 0.54.43 |
Family outings around Ballyphehane. She says that she doesn’t miss anything from the old times in Ballyphehane but then recounts how she used to take the children out the Tramore Road, out to Celia’s pub was and there was a stream there and you think you were in Youghal by the stream. Her husband would go in for a pint and if he had the money he would get a bottle of lemonade for the children. The children would paddle in the stream and it was very pleasant. Jackie then adds that she remembers walking down Tramore Road on a Sunday with her father in front on them carrying a stick going onto Hangdog Road, where Kelleher’s Electrical is and there was a farm there. They would stop by the gate to look at the chickens and hens but as you were walking down the road the rats would run across. That is why her father had the stick. Elizabeth says that where Musgraves is now was also a farm. It was country. Jackie talks about going for a walk up Airport Hill into the Airport bar. Also going over St. Finbarr’s Club house. Her aunt and her family socialised with them a lot as her husband died young. Elizabeth loved the walk going down to Blackrock. There was no bus or car and they would walk down the marina. Her husband never had a car so the family used to walk everywhere. She couldn’t afford the bus for all the children and the buses weren’t plentiful. |
0.54.43 - 0.56. 27 |
The Bandon Train. She recalls the train that you could see on top of the hill running along. She believes it only went once a day. She remembers being asked to meet her brother’s girlfriend from Dunmanway who arrived by train at the station for Bandon. Discussion arises over where was the Bandon line ran through close to the home. |
0.56.28 - 0.59.13 |
Activities and social events like Bonfire Night. Jackie recalls the boys used to go out to Lane’s Wood, at the back of Vermont. Jackie then mentions bonfire night and they having it at the green close to the home and a lady who used to set up a table for refreshments for the children for free. Elizabeth recalls a man who played the melodeon. He was called Mr Mac, for McCarthy. He would play when the Tory Top was closed or the ‘Little Man’s’ and there would a great sing song with a sofa still there and that would be the last into the fire. There would be dancing as well. The Little Man was the Horseshoe Inn. Very little entertainment around here. Bonfire night was a big night and John Millis used to collect a pennies from children and he would get the diluted orange and he would give them a few sweets. |
0.59.13 – 1.05.04 |
Her Social life and Dancing. She didn’t socialise much. She didn’t drink or smoke. She loved to dance though. She went to the Arcadia and City Hall before she got married. She thought the Arcadia brilliant. She went to any big dance that came which could cost as much as five shillings. It would be on from nine to two every Saturday night for a half a crown but if a big band came it would be five shillings. She met her husband Jimmy in the City Hall at a dance. She relates how the ‘boys’ would be on one side and the ‘girls’ would be on the other and the male would come across to ask for a dance. She didn’t have much preparation for the dances – the clothes weren’t as glamourous as today or as much make-up. She said she wasn’t into make-up generally. Her husband however liked to look good – always careful to mind his clothes. |
1.05.05 – 1.09.26 |
Sense of community and helping in Ballyphehane. She experienced a great sense of community in Ballyphehane. She is over sixty years here and hasn’t a bad word for the place. Her son Denis was born upstairs, the first after she moved to Kent Road. He was helped in delivery by Mrs. Willis next door. She was a great neighbour as you could call her. Her husband loved sweet things and she remembers when he was sick he had a ‘catch’ of sweets down the wardrobe and his bottle as well. She thinks that he used to get up to get a sweet but there would be a little bit of alcohol with it. She was the opposite and always hated alcohol. If she needed help when he was ill she would rap on the wall and the neighbour would call in, but mostly Linda who developed a good relationship with him during his ill times. Recounts a story about Linda getting hit accidently. |
1.09.27 – 1.14.14 |
Ballyphehane as child friendly and welcoming. It was a great place to bring up children. She experienced no problem. Jackie speaks about how everybody hadn’t much so there wasn’t much competition and they all played together. Elizabeth then relates how a new neighbour moved in close by and her advice to her about renovating her house with the start point being the bedroom and then the kitchen and you have the rest of your life to do the rest. Nowadays, she thinks, young ones want it done straight away. Both Elizabeth and Jackie talk about how over the years new families have moved in and integrated very well. Jackie remembers how they used to play soccer using a neighbours gate and their own gate as goalposts. Never any trouble with the neighbours. Elizabeth speaks about a new neighbour who is ‘dark skinned’ and says she doesn’t bother anyone but doesn’t get involved either. They are very quite. |
1.14.15 – 1.23.11 |
Musgrave Park and its impact on their life. Elizabeth talks about the rugby pitch which is next to her house and remembers the local opposition to the flood lights and people coming to her door to sign a petition against them, fearing they would be doing concerts. There was also a collection for to employ a solicitor but when the lights were installed, she states, they interfered with nobody. Jackie urges Lizzie to talk about the time the All Blacks came and the place being full of camper vans but Lizzie talks about another time a visiting couple asked her could they leave their bags there with her for them to go for a walk and they went for a walk around the lough. She fed them when they came back. They intended to ‘thump’ back to Limerick after the match. Lizzie wouldn’t allow them to do that as it would be dark after the match and she persuaded to stay the night and go in the morning. Jackie again goes back to the All Black match and the visitors had camper vans and all the gear for making their own food but still the front door was left open and they used to come in to use the bathroom. The only problem she mentions would be traffic sometimes but the Guards are very good. James talks about the concerts there and one in particular, El Divo, and how Uncle Arthur expected to arrive in the house and be able to hear the concert but that turned out to be not the case. General talk amongst those present of how nice it is to live in Ballyphehane. Jamie Fury then reads the legal document regarding the recording of Elizabeth ‘Lizzie’ O’Sullivan. INTERVIEW ENDS |
LOH: But regards to the, the Marsh area or the city as ‘twas called, I mean there’s several marshes there. You have the western marshes and you have the eastern marshes, Dunscombe’s Marsh now would be around Patrick Street and all these places but the marsh that we grew up would be, you had Pike’s Marsh which came up the side of Bachelor’s Quay. You had Hammond’s Marsh then which would be around by the Mercy Hospital there in Henry Street, Peter Street, Moore Street and then you had Fenn’s Marsh which would be where Sheares Street is and you go over further then where Clarke’s Bridge is and you have Clarke’s Marsh. So I mean people say they lived in the Marsh but no one would think of asking them what Marsh did they live in. You know I mean, well most people just call it the Marsh area, you know, they don’t put names on it but me being a local historian, I’m supposed to know all these things. When people are talking to me they want to know, you know what part was Pike’s Marsh you know and all this business. Now they were all called after Merchant Princes’ if you like, they were all well to do Quakers and things like that now and em like Pike’s they had, the Pike family, they had a boat building place in Water Street. They had a timber yard. They had a bank in Adelaide Street, you know that just give you an idea of the type of person, people, the families I’m talking about and they actually lived eventually, they moved, when the city expanded and the city walls were demolished and things like that, they moved to Bessboro in Blackrock, now if you are ever in Bessboro and to see the size of house and the lands all round it, you will know the type of family I was talking about. They were big, big merchant princes. So that would have been the Pike family. There’s not much information on the Hammond family and you know Hammond’s Marsh and why they’re called, why they’re called, how they got their names were when the city walls were demolished after the siege in 1690, the city council as we call ‘em, the corporation decided to lease out the Marshes outside the city walls. Now in actual fact by reading about it, I don’t think they were marshes at all, there was just waterways with islands, you know that the water went around the islands because I mean you’d be asking yourself if there were marshes how did they build on them. That’s just my own interpretation of it now but they filled in all the waterways anyway and they built big houses on the outskirts of the old city walls.
He describes his routine on school days, attending St Aloysius school and awareness of tenement houses en route. All the family except his father who was traveling returned for a big meal at lunch time prepared by a local woman who worked for them. Always ate fish on Friday. Recalls respectability being very important.
He recalls the Haggart or “Haggy Field” at the bottom of Wyses Hill where “ponnies” or chamber pots were emptied.
He remembers family adversities: death of his mother, father’s heart attack and his brother’s autism.
He outlines more of his family history: paternal grandfather involved in construction of Fitzgerald’s park and the 1902 Cork Exhibition, maternal grandfather Cronin was a cattle dealer, Cronin’s Field at the top of Cathedral Road may be named after him.
He mentions pawn shops and how the family christening cups would “go missing” and be located in the local pawn. Also recalls a “shawlie” asking him to fill her a jug of porter from a bar as she did not want to be seen going inside herself.
He describes his Christian Brothers secondary school, the violence of corporal punishment, the teachers and cycling to and from school. Discusses the emphasis on rugby at the school, the elitism of this and the uniform. Reflects how in retrospect the school failed to address personal or emotional problems the pupils had. Mentions the one-day-a-week school nearby. Describes the Eglinton Baths.
Talks about studying for the Leaving Cert at Holy Trinity College with “Doc Payne” before attending UCC. Recalls studying and socialising at university before outlining his further medical training, specific cases in hospitals (North Infirmary, CUH (Cork University Hospital) and St. Finbarr’s) and ultimate career trajectory towards becoming a GP.
Reflects on improvements in medical care including vaccines, nutrition, public health and improving survival rates for many diseases. Remembers delivering his first baby and reviving a child who died from cardiac arrest.
Describes ultimately working on Grand Parade as a GP in the surgery of Dr Michael Cagney who had fought in the Spanish Civil War.
Discusses making house calls in “The Marsh” area, and the treatment of psychiatric problems.
Finally, Derek reflects on his career, the sense of guilt and hypervigilance instilled in his medical training, and how mistakes are made when not following your intuition.
]]>Originally from Winter’s Hill, Derek describes his home and family: siblings, grandmother, his GP mother and his father who worked in insurance. He outlines his mother’s tasks and equipment as a GP.
He describes his routine on school days, attending St Aloysius school and awareness of tenement houses en route. All the family except his father who was traveling returned for a big meal at lunch time prepared by a local woman who worked for them. Always ate fish on Friday. Recalls respectability being very important.
He recalls the Haggart or “Haggy Field” at the bottom of Wyses Hill where “ponnies” or chamber pots were emptied.
He remembers family adversities: death of his mother, father’s heart attack and his brother’s autism.
He outlines more of his family history: paternal grandfather involved in construction of Fitzgerald’s park and the 1902 Cork Exhibition, maternal grandfather Cronin was a cattle dealer, Cronin’s Field at the top of Cathedral Road may be named after him.
He mentions pawn shops and how the family christening cups would “go missing” and be located in the local pawn. Also recalls a “shawlie” asking him to fill her a jug of porter from a bar as she did not want to be seen going inside herself.
He describes his Christian Brothers secondary school, the violence of corporal punishment, the teachers and cycling to and from school. Discusses the emphasis on rugby at the school, the elitism of this and the uniform. Reflects how in retrospect the school failed to address personal or emotional problems the pupils had. Mentions the one-day-a-week school nearby. Describes the Eglinton Baths.
Talks about studying for the Leaving Cert at Holy Trinity College with “Doc Payne” before attending UCC. Recalls studying and socialising at university before outlining his further medical training, specific cases in hospitals (North Infirmary, CUH (Cork University Hospital) and St. Finbarr’s) and ultimate career trajectory towards becoming a GP.
Reflects on improvements in medical care including vaccines, nutrition, public health and improving survival rates for many diseases. Remembers delivering his first baby and reviving a child who died from cardiac arrest.
Describes ultimately working on Grand Parade as a GP in the surgery of Dr Michael Cagney who had fought in the Spanish Civil War.
Discusses making house calls in “The Marsh” area, and the treatment of psychiatric problems.
Finally, Derek reflects on his career, the sense of guilt and hypervigilance instilled in his medical training, and how mistakes are made when not following your intuition.
0.00.00 - 0.01.58 |
Family and House Grew up on Winter’s Hill between Blarney Street and Wyses Hill on northside of Cork. The third of 4 children all delivered by caesarean section. His mother was very small and the local GP, one of the first “lady doctors” of which there were only 4 or 5 at the time, and they covered for each other. Father worked in insurance and had a good job as assistant manager of insurance company. Mother worked full-time. Always family member in the house to help out, including a grandmother. An old male relative lived in the 3rd floor of the house. That wasn’t unusual, it wasn’t always one room per person. But it solved childminding issues. |
0.01.58 - 0.02.20 |
Grandmother Remembers grandmother’s lap, her dark blue apron with designs on it and knitting needles. She died when he was about 3. |
0.02.20 - 0.04.33 |
House and Mother’s GP Surgery 3 storey detached house, a bit unusual. Further back from the road than others, with passage in called “the passage”, hen house in front and back of house, which was normal at the time. Mother did house calls in the morning. In the evening they had to go to the dining room because the front room became the waiting room and she had her surgery upstairs. Learned young how to answer the phone. People might arrive with urine in a Paddy whiskey bottle. In retrospect she was checking pregnancies or urinary infections. He was frightened of her steriliser- an electric pot with instruments in it. Syringe needles were sharpened on an oil stone before being put in steriliser, and no one seemed to get infections. |
0.04.33 - 0.07.59 |
Routine/ Typical Day at Home & School Walked down Wyses Hill to school in St Al’s (St Aloysius) which was a girl’s school. Teachers Miss Brett, Miss Curran (Chris Curran’s sister maybe), Sister Aloysius in first class which was more challenging because she didn’t like the boys. There was two thirds girls in the class. At that time this was normal practice. Walked across Vincent’s bridge across by the Mercy Hospital and across by lark’s bridge. Recalls where the labour exchange is now (Intreo Centre Hanover Street) there were beautiful Georgian Houses (tenement houses) in terrible condition with lots of washing out and women out talking to each other and several generations playing, and that was normal. No one thought there was anything right or wrong with it, it was just the way it was. Went home for lunch, and often had soup and a main course especially in the winter time. A lighter meal in the evening. All the family returned home for lunch except his father who might be traveling to Bantry or Skibbereen which was a long way at the time. A lady prepared the meals for the family. People who worked in the house lived locally and were like members of the family. They might work for 2 or 3 years and move on, often when they got married. Someone else would come then, often by word of mouth, perhaps through his mother’s GP practice. Always ate fish on a Friday which he didn’t like. Suspects there was a rota for meals. ‘Meat and two vegetables’ was always the meal. Felt privileged to have that as not everyone could, and there was a good bit of poverty around. Recalls a “soundbite” from Blarney Street: “Johnny come in for your rasher and two eggs!” There was a great respectability, everyone respected everyone else and there wasn’t any talking down to people- it wasn’t acceptable.
|
0.07.59 - 0.09.49 |
Playing near Home & the Haggard Didn’t get out of the house all that much. Played football outside the door for a while. Area called “the Haggy” across from where they lived, the Haggard* which was a kind of wasteland roughly where fancy apartments at bottom of Wyses hill are now. People used to dump their “ponnies”** in the old days. It wasn’t regarded as a place you’d go, it was just a steep hill. But people went there with their (chamber) pots. But the stigma of it not being a clean place remained even maybe 100 years after running water and sewage came in. So when playing football if the ball went down the haggy no one wanted to fetch it. Was not allowed to go out to play football, mother would have had a “conniption fit” had she known they were out doing that. [*Haggard or Haggart: A farmyard or small enclosed field; a vegetable patch or kitchen garden. Or area adjacent to the farm yard or what once was a farm yard. Traditionally this was an enclosed area on a farm for stacking hay, grain or other fodder. (sources: Wiktionary, meathfieldnames.com] **[ponny or ponnie: earthenware or metal pot or mug (Source: A Dictionary of Hiberno-English: The Irish Use of English ed. Terence Dolan)] |
0.09.49 - 0.12.43 |
Family, Changes and Adversity Mother died when he was 13. Dad had had 1st heart attack previous year and he had retired from work and started an insurance brokerage as a hobby. Sister Catherine did medicine and went to America and didn’t want to return. Different doctors tried to keep mother’s GP practice going. Older brother in insurance now retired. Younger brother Michael born hypothyroid and had severe autism slept in his room and found it normal to share a room with a practically non-verbal brother. Remarks on how people what people can accept as normal even if inconvenient and that people are strong in the face of adversity. Discusses the resentment and rage which is normalised by the internet which has also contributed to the polarisation of politics “it’s as if only extremes are correct”. History suggests consensus is what works. The manipulation of social media has contributed to this phenomenon. |
0.12.43 - 0.14.47 |
Mother, her GP work and her car Mother was very bubbly. Black hair with white stripe in the centre very careful about appearance hair was always done properly. Very hard worker with patients and at home. Expected high level of neatness and cleanness. She had a bubble car maybe 200cc with a door in the front. She covered other GPs. She went to Hettyfield and left 10 year old Derek doing his homework in the bubblecar. A 13 year old girl asked what it was and said “ours is a Consul Cortina”. The first time Derek felt his car might not be adequate. Bubble car had two seats at front one at back entered from the front. Recalls 4 children and his mother in the car! That was normal. |
0.14.47 - 0.16.53 |
Mother & Father: Backgrounds and relatives Mother and father put great store in education. She was youngest of 11 and one of the first to go to university. Dad was youngest of 17 children many in the family had been engineers. Derek’s grandfather had been married twice. Derek’s paternal grandfather died in 1917 before his father was born. Paternal grandfather was a builder/engineer/contractor had a lot to do with building of Fitzgerald’s Park, he has photographs of the grandfather with his workers dressed in Victorian outfits for the Cork Exhibition (1902 probably). Maternal grandfather was cattle-dealer Cronin. They lived up in Fair Hill which was subject to a compulsory purchase order in the 1960s by Cork corporation. Google maps lists Cronin’s Field at the top of Cathedral Road, assumes that this was the same field. Knew relatives at top of Hollyhill who were farming until Hollyhill as we know it was build. |
0.16.53 - 0.18.04 |
Pawnshops and stolen goods Two pawnshops on Lavitt’s Quay and one at bottom of Patrick’s Hill. Doesn’t recall who ran them. The Christening Cups were stolen a few times by the same person from the waiting room in the house and were located by the Gardaí in the local pawn shop. |
0.18.04 - 0.21.36 |
Secondary School: transport, teachers, shawlies, baths Went to Christian Brother’s College (CBC) after St Aloysius, his grandfather, father and brother had gone there. One teacher Mr Richard McCarthy known as Dicky Rashers called Derek by his father’s name because he had taught him as well. The story with Dicky Rashers was that he had dietary issues and after Christmas an announced that he had had rashers. He was a nice man. If it was raining they got the number 14 bus down Wyses Hill which came every 20 minutes. They used to hide because Dicky Rashers would offer them a lift which they didn’t want from a teacher. Also cycled to school. Got wheels caught in railway track going to Eglinton Baths. Those railway bridges opened until the 1970s. Goods trains and Guinness trains used to cross over them. Cycled up Patrick’s Hill to get to the Christian’s rugby field (Landsdowne). Cycled down the hill when it was raining, breaks failed and stopped where Brown Thomas is now. Only 4 or 5 cars on Blarney Street at the time. When 15 a shawlie stopped him near the Templeacre Bar (Gurranebraher Road) and she gave him a pint jug and asked him get her Guinness from the snug. She would not be seen going into the pub but wanted her Guinness. |
0.21.36 - 0.24.09 |
Secondary school teachers Christians was somewhat elitist which a lot of people were not comfortable with. Many teachers were old and not qualified teachers. Mr Murphy taught him art for leaving cert, but he had been teaching junior infants. He was very small his feet would not touch the ground when sitting on a desk. Mr Townshend music teacher and great musician. All characters. Violence of corporal punishment, queuing around the classroom to answer questions on Geography or Latin. If you weren’t very academic you got a lot of beatings on the hands. Some of those less academic pupils became very successful businessmen. The Christian brother told the boys in the B class to be nice to boys in the C class because they might need to get a job from them later. |
0.24.09 - 0.26.04 |
Secondary Schools in general, elitism & ‘One Day a Week School’ The uniform was part of the school’s elitism. There was a school nearby “the Wana” (one day a week) and there was a clear difference between them and CBC. CBC had disciplined and scheduled classes all day. The one day a week school pupils were obeying the law, 12 or 13 years old selling papers to make money. They had to attend school until a certain age. People with dyslexia were beaten and treated with contempt. Scoil Mhuire girls private school was nearby and quite posh. Around the corner was St Angela’s was less posh. Rivalry between Christians and Pres (PBC, Presentation Brothers College). |
0.26.04 - 0.27.22 |
Secondary School: lack of empathy, attitudes towards sports Was in first year of secondary school when mother died. There was no recognition of that in school and he dropped from A class to B class. A little help would have gone a long way. In retrospect there were probably a number of pupils with ongoing issues which were never addressed by the school, while the emphasis was on playing rugby. Rugby in Cork was elitist then too. Derek joined Tramore Athletic soccer club. A cousin played tennis quite well and a Christian brother said “why wouldn’t he take up a boy’s game?” |
0.27.22 - 0.28.44 |
Eglinton Baths, swimming, chipper Eglinton Baths had a boys’ pool and a girls’ pool. Probably 25 yards. White tiles with balcony around each pool. Communal hot showers, but the pool itself was freezing and stinking of chlorine. “It wasn’t unusual to be blue and wet!”. Went home via Maylor Street and went Matt Kiely’s chip shop to warm up a bit. |
0.28.44 - 0.29.30 |
Changes after mother’s death, father’s career Younger brother went into full-time care when his mother died. And his dad was involved in local politics and trying to run a business. He was a Fine Gael councillor for over 20 years in the North Central part of Cork which would have been unusual. He was involved in the health board and the building of the regional hospital. He was chairman of the hospital board for years and of the health board. |
0.29.30 - 0.31.36 |
Repeating the Leaving Cert with Dr Paye Derek always assumed that he would be a doctor. He was offered a place in dentistry in college which he declined. His dad got him into the Holy Trinity College on Washington Street “Doc Paye’s” which was a military camp for getting your leaving certificate. He is grateful to Dr Paye and Miss Paye. For this school your hair was cut very tight, you wore a humiliating uniform, “you arrived on time or you didn’t arrive at all”. Mixed class, boys wore black, girls wore red with tartan. Every class was structured 45 minutes and took serious notes. They had studied the leaving cert papers and knew what needed to be learned. Still sees Dr Paye around and she must be a good age. |
0.31.38 - 0.34.15 |
First experience of University: courses and social and sport life After he resat the leaving cert he went to UCC in a course call First Common Science. This was an experiment when Pre-Med and Pre-Dent courses were done away with. In First Common Science you competed for your course. Had little experience of social mixing, and enjoyed going to the Kampus Kitchen (Campus Kitchen) to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee, and drink beer in the evening if you could afford it. First Common Science was not a problem because of the work done in Dr Paye’s. 60 got into medicine, 20 into dentistry and the rest did other science degrees maybe dairy science and science. Glad he got to mix and get to know more people. Thinks that his son who went to Trinity to do medicine probably missed out on that aspect of social life as he went straight into medicine. Small group of people in his course. There used to be rugby matches in the quarry in UCC where the Boole Library is now. The pitch was very muddy in winter. Dentistry were not able to field a team as there were not enough men doing the course. Playing the quarry you were just as good as everyone else because everyone was terrible. |
0.34.15 - 0.37.39 |
University: playing cards, betting, debating society, studying For the first year or two Kampus Kitchen was the place to play cards and a lot of money was won and lost there. He stopped playing cards because he saw people lose their grants. He once lost the money to be spent on a shirt for the Med Ball and had to attend with a pink shirt. As regards clubs and societies looking back he thinks he should have attended the Philosoph (UCC Philosophical Society, college debating society). People who were from Cork probably got less involved in clubs and societies, whereas those living on or near campus would have become more involved. Thinks the Philosoph would have broadened his education, mentions how Theo Dorgan was there during his time in college and thinks that Theo got a broader education compared to the narrower field of medicine. His education was greatly advanced in 2nd Year Medicine while in the library fretting about a physiology exam maybe 2 weeks before the exam. A mature student around 35 years old told him “the information in a book is inversely proportional to its size”.
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0.37.39 - 0.39.37 |
What’s needed to become a doctor and to practice No one asks him as a doctor where he came in his class, and it wouldn’t make a difference anyway. Many people who were academically gifted would not have been suited to being doctors. Is concerned that a medical education which requires strong left-sided brain skills to remember and regurgitate material may not produce great communicators and not great doctors. Someone with an average IQ could be a very good doctor. The economics of being a doctor suggest that maybe it should not be so attractive for people and they would be better in IT or science. Once you qualify in medicine that is only the beginning: you have to graft for jobs, get relevant experience and only then try to make a living. It’s just a primary degree unlike dentistry where you are a qualified dentist once you complete the degree |
0.39.37 - 0.42.48 |
Working in North Infirmary: learning, some memorable cases Went to the North Infirmary. Lovely hospital to work in, was very well-treated. Very hard work. 3 medical interns, 3 surgery interns, maybe 2 SHO (Senior House Officer) and 2 Registrars. Recalls first night he was on for surgery when a patient from motorbike accident was to arrive in and the SHO left before the patient arrived. Nurses were excellent. Learned how to do things. Learned how to recognise cases that were too hot to handle. When on call started 9am Friday finished Monday at 5. There were very few GPs out of hours so got big queues in North Infirmary. Went to bed 4am one Sunday morning and he was told there was a young man with chest pain. The young man looked pale and sweaty and was wearing ex-army jacket which was “all the rage” at the time. Discovered that the man had been playing darts, had gotten a dart in the back and had a chest full of blood. Learned to be careful and not take things at face value. Another night a man was brought in by his friends. At the time Match of the Day (football highlights and analysis TV programme on BBC) was at 7pm or 8pm. The man had been in the pub and “his leg was swinging in the breeze”, he had fallen off a bar stool and broken his hip around 7:30pm but had stayed in the pub until Match of the Day was over before coming to hospital. |
0.42.48 - 0.51.04 |
Changes in healthcare: preventative medicine, vaccination, alcohol Suggests people may have been tougher in the past. Then reflects on the improvements in medicine and that “the good old days weren’t so good”, people didn’t live as long, not vaccinated, poor nutrition. As nutrition improved children became taller than their parents. Improvements in prognosis. Enthusiastic about preventative medicine. Although the medical card system did not take that into account, doctors were not paid for vaccinations on the medical card but they did it anyway. Gay Byrne encouraged people to get the measles vaccine. And there was a change in the demographics of the measles incidents over two years after that. Didn’t see cases of measles for 15-20 years, and it only reappeared when anti-vaxers (anti vaccination campaigners) appeared. Thinks it’s a scandal. Vaccination for measles is not individual it is based on herd immunity it requires 80-90% of the population to be vaccinated or the vulnerable will get it: people with immunodeficiency, leukaemia, chemotherapy. Discusses the changes in gender demographics in relation to cardio-vascular diseases and risk factors. There had been an economic difficulty with alcohol-you could only afford a small amount of alcohol (or cigarettes). But now alcohol is cheaper and cigarettes are more expensive. Mentions the trend of pre-drinking. Suggests problems of alcohol appear to occur further north of the equator. Discusses the off-licenses in Sweden where you had to order alcohol a bit like the system of ordering products in Argos. If your order for alcohol exceeded accepted level you were not served. This didn’t prevent people drinking as they made their own. Discusses the positive effect of smoking ban and the way people use the “nanny state” argument to oppose basic public health measures. Talks about the improvements in treatments and survival rates particularly for cancers and cardio vascular diseases. Compares this to reactions of indignation. Points out the hidden nature of preventative health care which can be effective but is rarely seen of credited. Preventative care is also less well understood compared with waiting times for doctors or ambulances, number of hospital beds. Thinks the question should be about quality of life and what can be done to improve it. |
0.51.04 - 0.52.47 |
North Infirmary working routine, cost of hospitals In north infirmary there was a doctors’ room and dining room where you had your own seat and there was a colour television which was unusual at the time. 6 interns. You worked every day and every third night as well and every third weekend. But if someone was on holidays you had to work every second one. The cost of a bed per night in the hospital was £80 and when it was closed the cost in other hospitals was £200-£300 per night. Discusses the merits of centres of excellence and lower-tech hospitals. |
0.52.47 - 0.57.07 |
Further training in St Finbarr’s & CUH, reviving a child, CPR After North Infirmary did obs and gynae (obstetrics and gynaecology) in St Finbarr’s Hospital and CUH (Cork University Hospital). Great training, lovely, practical and kind obstetricians. A small nurse Sister Tutor called him at night for a mother giving birth. The nurse cleverly directed him in delivering the baby with a forceps while making it seem like he was the one doing all the work. “Without the nurses we’d be nowhere”. His daughter is a nurse and sees how knowledgeable and capable they are at the coal face. Unwise for doctors to ignore what nurses say. The importance of everyone being on the same team. Recalls an A and E (accident and emergency) nurse who had all the equipment ready while the doctor was looking up what was to be done. Recalls a child around 7 years old who was dead from cardiac arrest after getting electrocuted on a Saturday afternoon. They used intubation, put up a drip, drugs, cardiac massage, and defibrillation. They didn’t have time to look up dosages they divided them amounts by 4 for a child. They had a good success rate at reviving dead bodies in North Infirmary- community response is key today. “an ambulance on its way doesn’t keep your heart beating.” Believes everyone should learn the basics of CPR. Recalls CPR in his GP practice. |
0.57.07 - 0.58.50 |
Further medical training and useful A & E experience After obs and gynae he did paediatrics, psychiatry, and a year in A and E where he learned that a little smile went a long way. Talked about how to politely and carefully deal with cases which were not serious enough to be in A and E. Public who might be waiting all day did not see the very serious cases that were happening out of sight. It was good training for a GP practice. |
0.58.50 - 1.04.21 |
Own GP practice, Dr Cagney’s GP practice & Spanish Civil War, Set up own GP practice on northside in their house. Found it lonely because there were so few patients coming in. He then practiced with Dr Michael Cagney until he got a stroke. Dr Michael Cagney was a remarkable man, big burly, chain-smoking man very kind to people. He would tell people to give up cigarettes while he was smoking at the same time. He was doing surgery and he returned to GP practice because he father had been running a practice but became ill. When Dr Michael Cagney sat his leaving cert he was too young to go to college so his dad and General Eoin O’Duffy decided to send him to fight in the Spanish Civil War. He rarely spoke about his time in that war, and must have been traumatised by it. He probably thought he was going out “to help the raped nuns.” Many people from Ireland went to fight in that war. And it was not that long ago. Reflects on children today being used as soldiers in other countries, and being involved in drug gangs in Ireland and on those who leave to fight for Al Qaeda today and crusaders in the past. Dr Michael Cagney was probably born around 1920. The practice was in 51 Grand Parade, 2 floors up. It was a very good practice, he was very ethical and kept very good notes on large A4 file in alphabetical order which was probably unusual for the time. They used the Merck Manual which was an encyclopaedia of therapeutics. You could ring surgeons for advice. There was a great sense of responsibility and great collegiality. Refers to the changing ways of doctors referring patients to hospitals. |
1.04.21 - 1.06.09 |
First day in new GP Practice, changes in care, responses to bad cases Remembers first day in Dr Michael Cagney’s practice which was in a back room and patients wanted to see Dr Cagney rather than Derek: “With respect to you doctor I’d like to see the doctor!” After time people came to see him specifically. Did everything, including: antenatal, postnatal and smears- it was perfectly normal for a male doctor to do a smear in those days before there were headline cases of doctors who did the wrong thing. Derek became deskilled in that area because it was too much of a risk. Suggests that new practices are often introduced in response to hard cases. Mentions the response to the Dr Harold Shipman murders in England where GPs had to list the number of patients they had who died in one year to prevent a similar case. One GP made a mistake in their statistics and rang up to clarify them, but was told no one would ever read the statistics so it didn’t matter. Says that lots of information is gathered but never really used. |
1.06.09 - 1.08.05 |
Learning on the job, diseases not disappearing Dr Michael Cagney learned surgery but had to learn paediatrics on the job. Thinks most people of average intelligence can learn very quickly when put in a situation. Recalls a patient with a rheumatic heart and the hospital intern found it hard to believe. Derek says “diseases don’t go away they’re just waiting for you to forget that they happen”. Thinks there will be more outbreaks of diseases due to lack of vaccination. Polio outbreak in Amsterdam 20 years ago. “diseases don’t go away because you are sophisticated or rich or white.” |
1.08.05- 1.09.51 |
Attitudes to vaccination, TB Treatments in Cork Discusses the positive attitude towards vaccination in the past. People had seen children with whooping cough and adults who had holes in their lungs because of it. Doctors had patients who had limps from polio epidemic in Cork in 1950s, knows of a patient who died of post-polio syndrome in their 70s. TB was common but few admitted to having it- stigma associated with it comparable to leprosy or HIV. Mentions Mr Hickey in Sarsfield’s Court who was able to collapse lungs and do pioneering surgery to treat TB. Thinks vaccination is question of statistics not opinion. |
1.09.51 - 1.12.20 |
Routine as GP: house calls, pager, patients not going to hospital Typical day started around 9am. Might do 10 house calls in a day because people didn’t go to hospital or if they did not for very long. House calls were also more common back then because of the lack of transport options for patients. Discusses the pager service, finding a public pay phone and how getting in contact with a patient an hour after they used the pager was considered fast. Dealt with a lot of pathology at home if patients did not wish to go to hospital. Could visit a patient at home every day for a week or two if they had a serious condition. It was very gratifying when patients recovered. |
1.12.20 - 1.15.06 |
Public Health Nurse care Had little contact with the Grattan Street dispensary and health centre. Mentions the dental service there, ophthalmologist Dr O’Sullivan and public health nurses (PHNs). When doing the membership of general practice in London he was not believed when he said there were only 2 PHNs for Cork city centre. PHNs medical care had a physical, psychological and social side. Knows that dispensary doctors had limited treatments: “blue tablets, red tablets and liquids”. They worked before the medical card system, which he thinks came in the 1970s. When Derek became a doctor the system was ‘fee per item’ you were paid a small amount for each thing you did as a GP. Everything had to be written in a duplicate book. |
1.15.06 - 1.17.52 |
‘The Marsh’ memories. Case of anaemic man Dad was in the St Vincent De Paul and many in the Marsh were living with 2 or 3 families (in some case 5 families) living in the same big Georgian Houses. Many of these were knocked down in the 50s and 60s and many moved to Cathedral Road and Fair Hill. Some families had lived for generations in the Marsh. Recalls visiting a man a PHN was concerned about. Man lived with his dog and had a picture of Elvis on one wall and Jesus on the other. He was very anaemic but wouldn’t go to hospital. The remedy was some injections of B12, iron and oral folic acid and Meals on Wheels. Believes the problem was nutritional- living on spam sandwiches. |
1.17.52 - 1.20.35 |
People with psychiatric problems lived in the community in the past, now are being hospitalised Some people who lived in the city centre had come from elsewhere where may have been rejected. Some had mild schizophrenia or personality problems. They came to live in the anonymity of town. Many muddled along living in bedsits and had as much company as they wished. Now similar cases are put in hospital maybe in situations that do not suit them. Discusses the idea of putting anyone with psychiatric problems into the same category. Compares how we treat other illnesses- there is no “abdominal ward” which would treat a huge array of different illnesses, these are catered for separately. Similarly he thinks it doesn’t make sense to put people who are depressed or hearing voices in the same place as those with an eating disorder. Does not think the problem will be solved by additional money alone. |
1.20.35 - 1.21.40 |
Ability of people to cope. Publican ran bar walking on her knees Highlights the extraordinary ability of people to cope. Recalls an elderly lady (who probably had polio) and ran a bar walking on her knees on a bench behind the counter. Thinks that today there is more a demand for everything to be perfect and this can lead to unhappiness. |
1.21.40 - 1.24.15 |
Reflects on career, mistakes and medical training Thinks that when he made mistakes it was because he had ignored the inner voice that suggested something didn’t smell right. One of the things that was instilled in learning to be a doctor was basic guilt. The default was guilt, the sense that if something went wrong it must be your fault. That is the downside of medicine: trained into a guilt-trip. Makes you vigilant all the time which can be tiring. Wouldn’t change anything, felt privileged and happy to meet people and make a connection and friends. It wasn’t possible to be friends with your patients, there had to be a dividing line, though he is friends with them now. You couldn’t do business with or have a relationship or a social life with a patient. Peggy Cronin O’Connell and Vincent O’Connell were his parents’ names. Interview Ends 1.24.15 |
She attended school in St. Maries of the Isle as most children from The Middle Parish did and Came home for lunch.
Played children’s games on the street including: skipping, piggey, release, cat and dog, hide and go seek, thunder up the alley, playing shop, playing house, runaway knock
Speaks of enjoyment and happiness in simple things even in the straightened economic circumstances that prevailed in the communities of her childhood. Discusses the prevalence of pawn shops on how they were relied on.
Recalls joy as a child when they got money for sweets as a treat.
Explains how her father like other men at the time would repair their shoes at home. Her father worked in the Munster Arcade and the family took it in turns to bring him lunch there
Discusses the differences in social class at the time
Speaks about the positive change in men’s role in housework today
Describes an annual family day trip to Youghal for swimming and a picnic.
Talks about shops and the stalls and sellers in the English Market and Coal Quay where food was bought for typical meals including stews, potatoes, tripe and drisheen, skirts and kidneys, offal, offal bones and liver.
Mentions some Christmas traditions in her family.
Remembers hearing men having a regular parting singsong while leaving the pub at night. Recounts a humorous story about musician in the Workingman’s Band pretending to play his instrument in a parade.
Remarks on parents’ strict time keeping in her childhood which was a useful skill as an adult.
Describes what dances in dancehalls were like, especially St. Francis Hall. Gives description of the rules and functioning of the dances as well as learning to dance.
Outlines common diseases in her childhood, including diphtheria which she contracted. Describes symptoms of diphtheria spending time in hospital isolation to cure diphtheria.
Remembers GP Dr Cagney in the dispensary on Grattan Street and the medicines available on site from the pharmacist including Parishes Food. Further describes the dispensary, its waiting room and how the caretaker and pharmacist lived in the building.
Talks about religious devotion, mass going, the rosary, fasting prior to holy communion and confraternity meetings in St. Francis church.
Criticises aspects Catholic religious practice such as fasting (which she describes as manmade), confession and whether children can comprehend their First Holy Communion . Humorous story of priest in the North Cathedral who gave lenient penances for confession.
Describes candy apples made and sold on Gerald Griffin Street.
]]>Mary grew up on in a tenement on Grattan Street where there was a toilet in the yard strong sense of community.
She attended school in St. Maries of the Isle as most children from The Middle Parish did and Came home for lunch.
Played children’s games on the street including: skipping, piggey, release, cat and dog, hide and go seek, thunder up the alley, playing shop, playing house, runaway knock
Speaks of enjoyment and happiness in simple things even in the straightened economic circumstances that prevailed in the communities of her childhood. Discusses the prevalence of pawn shops on how they were relied on.
Recalls joy as a child when they got money for sweets as a treat.
Explains how her father like other men at the time would repair their shoes at home. Her father worked in the Munster Arcade and the family took it in turns to bring him lunch there
Discusses the differences in social class at the time
Speaks about the positive change in men’s role in housework today
Describes an annual family day trip to Youghal for swimming and a picnic.
Talks about shops and the stalls and sellers in the English Market and Coal Quay where food was bought for typical meals including stews, potatoes, tripe and drisheen, skirts and kidneys, offal, offal bones and liver.
Mentions some Christmas traditions in her family.
Remembers hearing men having a regular parting singsong while leaving the pub at night. Recounts a humorous story about musician in the Workingman’s Band pretending to play his instrument in a parade.
Remarks on parents’ strict time keeping in her childhood which was a useful skill as an adult.
Describes what dances in dancehalls were like, especially St. Francis Hall. Gives description of the rules and functioning of the dances as well as learning to dance.
Outlines common diseases in her childhood, including diphtheria which she contracted. Describes symptoms of diphtheria spending time in hospital isolation to cure diphtheria.
Remembers GP Dr Cagney in the dispensary on Grattan Street and the medicines available on site from the pharmacist including Parishes Food. Further describes the dispensary, its waiting room and how the caretaker and pharmacist lived in the building.
Talks about religious devotion, mass going, the rosary, fasting prior to holy communion and confraternity meetings in St. Francis church.
Criticises aspects Catholic religious practice such as fasting (which she describes as manmade), confession and whether children can comprehend their First Holy Communion . Humorous story of priest in the North Cathedral who gave lenient penances for confession.
Describes candy apples made and sold on Gerald Griffin Street.
0.00.00 - 0.00.21 |
Intro |
0.00.21 - 0.02.56 |
Tenement Life and Friendships Mary grew up in 44 Grattan Street. Despite there being tenements it was a magic experience. It was one big happy family, everyone knew and helped one another. All the children played and went to school together. 6 families lived in 44 Grattan Street, all had lots of children and still friends and went to each other’s marriages. Tenements today would be apartments. All had separate entrance but one main toilet in the yard. It was tough but they knew no other experience and everyone was the same. There was one family which was a bit better off than them, but they received the same treatment from them as everyone else and never interfered with their friendship. She still knows where all her neighbours are, and for going to funerals. |
0.02.56 - 0.04.08 |
Typical Day Get up, have breakfast go to St Maries of the Isle school [Bishop Street Cork], and most of Middle Parish went to that school at the time. Came home for lunch and returned to school at 2pm. And finished school at 3pm. Then went home, did the homework and went to play on the street. There were no cars on the street but there was an occasional horse and cart. Played all their games on the street: skipping and pickey. One of Mary’s happiest time because all the children were at the same level- no one was looking down on them. |
0.04.08 - 0.09.58 |
Children’s Games Skipping and Piggey Skipping and piggey with a piggey box or a shoe polish box taken from someone’s house. Mary’s sister-in-law once did not have any chalk to draw the boxes for piggey (or picky or pickey) [hopscotch] and she broke the finger of her mother’s holy statue of the virgin Mary and used it instead of chalk. Mary describes it as innocent, there was no harm involved. The statue was on the landing. They didn’t have the money to buy chalk. Still laugh about that story today. Release- game. Boys and girls were involved. 6 or 10 children all in a square drawn on the ground. One appointed to stay in the box. Someone would shout “Release” and everyone would scatter and hide. And the person in the square had to try to find them. Cat and Dog- game Place a small stick which is pointed a both ends at the edge of a kerb. Then take a bigger stick and hit it so it would fly into the air. The person who hit their stick the furthest would win. It was simple but very enjoyable. Hide and Go Seek- game [doesn’t give a description] Thunder up the Alley- game Lighting papers and put them up the drainpipe/chute and the draught took it up the chute. Mary says they should not have done that but they did, and says that they were bored. Playing Shop and Playing House- game Used the tombstones in the Protestant graveyard [St Peter’s on Grattan Street] They put all their “googles”? [8:10-8:20] on the tombstones and their friends came to “buy” them. They used coloured glass for sweets. Played with neighbours boys and girls. Run Away Knock-game People would claim they would tell Mary’s parents about playing this game but they never did because they knew it was innocent. Reminisces about childhood with friends now. |
0.09.58 - 0.11.21 |
Compares her childhood with that of today Things that she did people might frown on eg. playing on a tombstone. Mentions having a picnic on a gravestone on holidays. Contrasts this with deliberate vandalisation of graves. Wasn’t afraid of graveyard because her mother said mother said that “The living are doing the harm the dead can’t do anything to you”. |
0.11.21 - 0.12.48 |
Food and Meals Porridge for breakfast sometimes called gruel. They had tea and could toast bread in front of fire, no toasters. Doesn’t think there were cornflakes at the time. Simple life but great happiness. “everybody was on the same level” “we had nothing but we had everything” “we had love, happiness, peace and there’s no money can buy these things”, “If you hadn’t it you did without it.” |
0.12.48- 0.15.09 |
Pawn Shops There were loan offices available but Mary said they would try to avoid those because they couldn’t afford it. There was only one man’s wages coming into the family. Pawn shops were “rampant” at the time. Suits for Sunday mass were sent to the pawn on Monday morning and on Thursday when you got your wages you would get the suit back out from the pawn. “that was living in my time”, “no shame in it” People had to survive and get food for their children, and wages were small. “We managed”. Her brother doesn’t agree with her that they were the happiest days of their lives. If they got something it was like Christmas. “We made do with what we had.” |
0.15.09 - 0.16.32 |
A Sunday Treat A penny on Sunday from her father for sweets. There was shop across from where they lived. They could get bonbons and other sweets. 4 farthings in a penny. You could get change from a penny! Thinks most people were happy at the time. |
0.16.32 - 0.18.58 |
Clothes: Repairs and Hand-me-downs Fathers would repair shoes. They would buy leather form Davisons Shop [16:40 or Davidsons?] shop on North Main Street. Used a strip of leather to put heels on shoes using a “Last” [cobbler’s last- a tool similar to the shape of a human foot used to make or repair shoes] tacked leather onto the shoe Used paring knife to remove excess leather. And then “Blackened it with the polish”. Repaired both shoe heels and soles. It was expensive to send them to the shoemaker and they couldn’t afford it. Tough times but great times. |
0.18.58 - 0.22.57 |
Father’s work in the Munster Arcade and his family bringing him Lunch Father, mother 6 children 4 boys and 2 girls lived in one floor of a 5 floor tenement. Dad worked as porter in the Munster Arcade. His job involved work around the shop and delivering parcels. Munster Arcade and Cashes were the best shops in Cork, very expensive. His children used to help their dad. Galvanised pot for tea and bread and butter brought to his work for his lunch. Everyone did something similar for lunches at the time. Couldn’t afford to buy ham. No such thing as going to a café for them. Munster Arcade was an elite shop for people who had big jobs. The staff were very lovely. |
0.22.57 - 0.29.30 |
Father having to Deliver a Tie. Attitude of the Elite. Once a woman from Montenotte or St Luke’s bought a tie for her husband and Mary’s father had to deliver the tie at 5.30pm when he was due to finish at 6pm. Father often spoke, cribbed and cursed about that incident. “That’s the way people lived at that time like. They were up there like and we were down here.” She puts this attitude down to ignorance. “They wanted to be up there looking down on us” but “We were better off because we had what they couldn’t buy: love and contentment.” Describes a world of the haves and have nots. Feels sorry for people who have to pretend that they are well-off rather than being themselves. Describes her thinking as old-fashioned. |
0.26.04 - 0.29.30 |
Change of Attitudes to Work today. Positive Change in role of men in Housework. Thinks everything is “put on a plate” for people- that everything must be done for them and people are not grateful for what they have. Thinks it’s degrading to tell people “but that’s your job.” Men were never expected to do housework or look after children in the past and now it’s changed and she is glad. Fathers would take children for walks, fishing or to matches. But everything else was done by the mother. Is glad that her children turned out well, thinks it was worth her effort raising them when she thinks back. Recalls a recent news story of a 10 year old drunk and questions the role of parents today. |
0.29.30 - 0.30.45 |
Pub Culture Then and Now Describes how when men were paid their wages they would go to the pub, and how women and children were not allowed in pubs. Believes children were not allowed in pubs then. Thinks now women are worse than men from what she hears as regards drinking behaviour. Believes this is unfair on children. |
0.30.45 - 0.33.48 |
Mother bringing them on Trips, Youghal, Swimming Describes parents as salt of the earth. Had to be home at a certain time. Could play on the street as there was very little traffic. They were taken to Fitzgerald’s Park or Lee Fields for an outing One Sunday in August would be trip to Youghal. Train to Youghal. Thousands of people like cattle there. Train stopped near the beach. And came home at 6pm in the evening. People wouldn’t believe you had been to the beach unless you got sunburned. Swam in Youghal. No bathing togs! Sandwiches on the beach. Learned to swim in Youghal. Her children went to the lifesaving clubs. It was essential that time |
0.33.48 - 0.45.47 |
Mother and Making Ends Meet: Pawns, Meals, Food Shopping Mother pawned father’s suit to make ends meet. And not ashamed of it. It was the thing to do to feed the children. Remembers her mother cooking stews and potatoes. Big bowl of potatoes in the centre of the table and everyone for themselves with butter on them! Tripe and Drisheen- good for the stomach. Beautiful dish. The dug of the lamb. Milk, onions, mushrooms, thicken with white sauce, and add potatoes. Mary still makes it as a winter dish. Her sons like it but not her daughters or daughter in laws. It’s still sold in O’Reilly’s in the English Market which was only around the corner from Grattan Street. Kidneys- skirts and kidneys. Kidneys referred to as “sheep’s pooley bags” [pooley: urine cf Sean Beecher Cork Slang: https://corkslang.com/pooley] Offal and offal bones, liver. The main dishes for the working classes. They were not able to afford steak. Today people are too squeamish about offal. English Market: The Chicken Inn. O’Reilly’s Tripe and Drisheen. Everyone had their own butcher. English Market was very basic when Mary was younger. Coal Quay was brilliant on a Saturday. Cornmarket Street used to be full of stalls, clothes, people, tinned food. Annie Punch half way down Cornmarket Street a big woman and a Cork character- “The Mother of the Coal Quay” blond, happy-go-lucky and funny person. Selling second-hand clothes at the time, although now they sell new clothes. It was very popular at Christmas. There’s snobbery about going into the Coal Quay today. Shop on corner Twomeys was popular. People would buy their Christmas Trees and decorations- Annie Punch was the main dealer for these. Saturday morning farmers would come to the city to sell their vegetables. There were also local shops that they supported. |
0.45.47 - 0.48.26 |
Christmas Might not have had a Christmas Tree but Santa Claus always came. They had chicken for Christmas dinner couldn’t afford a turkey Christmas Eve night her own children were frightened by her husband dresses as Santa Clause outside the window. They made their own fun back then. |
0.48.26 - 0.53.02 |
Singsongs and Music Singsongs after the pub which they could hear in bed a night. O’Callaghan’s Pub for the sing song. And opposite the protestant graveyard was the parting place at the end of the night. “Bill Bill” played the trumpet in The Workingman’s Band used to play it at 1am after the pub. The Workingman’s Band The Workingman’s Band played various wind instruments. They would meet in the club and march up Grattan Street and they were meant to turn left up to Patrick Street but one man turned right and people discovered he wasn’t playing his instrument! “They were very happy days” Songs at the singsong: “Mother mo Chroí”, “Kathleen Mavourneen”, “I’ll take you Home Again Kathleen”, “South of the Border- Down Mexico Way” Saturday night was the singsong and they would all make mass on Sunday morning in the Confraternity in St Peter and Paul’s Church for 8am mass or in St Francis church. Mary admired that they all stuck together. The men used take their pint but they never abused or neglected their families. |
0.53.02 - 0.57.46 |
Dancehalls and Father’s Strict Timekeeping Dances were held from 8pm-11pm in St. Francis Hall on Sheares Street. If they arrived home late her father would say: “I said 11 not five past” wouldn’t be allowed go the following week. Feels lucky that they were disciplined in this way. Her father was very strict but that all parents were like that at the time. Gresham Rooms on Maylor Street off Patrick Street was another place for dances, which their father was reluctant to let them attend as it was further away than St. Francis Hall. The Arcadia was an enjoyable place for dances. At dances the men were on one side of the room and women on the other. Women would run to the ladies toilet if an undesirable man came across the dancehall to ask them for a dance. “What a scatter!” Ladies choice: halfway through the night the women would have to ask the men for a dance. You could be reported and removed from the hall for refusing a dance. Lists some bands and singers: Victor Silvester, Clipper Carltons, Joe Mac and the Dixielanders. Terry McCarthy had died the week of this interview was a great singer. |
0.57.46 - 1.00.43 |
Funeral and Memories of Terry McCarthy and Music in Churches Beautiful funeral mass even better than that for a bishop! Large crowd at the funeral. Well organised and felt like being in heaven. When Mary was 80 her family invited Terry McCarthy to sing for her and he sang great old songs not pop music. Thinks that pop music is unsuitable to play at funerals and masses. |
1.00.43 - 1.08.51 |
Dancehalls: Rules, Learning, Locations and no Dances at Lent You couldn’t refuse a dance at a dancehall. And you couldn’t dance unless you were asked. A “legger” was a bad dancer. Types of dances: tango, quick step, foxtrot, and waltz. Learned how to dance at the dancehalls from each other and from a dancing partner at the dance. They would practice dancing at home with the sweeping brush! People would help and teach you when dancing. Some of the men were very proud of their dancing and would be showing off. Could get a glass of milk and buy tea and cake later on. Dance Halls: The Arcadia was the main ballroom in Cork was open 9pm until 2am, near Kent Station. Gresham Rooms. Dance near [Collins] Barracks and near Tivoli. Cork Boat Club on the Marina dancing finished at 2am and then they had to walk home. Once a friend Pauline from the Marsh who was an opera singer sang on the way home from the Marina but a Garda arrived and asked them to leave. Mary describes herself as a “chorus girl” rather than a solo singer! No dancing or dancehalls during Lent. So they met at the same time and went for a walk out the Lee Road. No vandalism at the time. “We made our own enjoyment” They would talk about fellas or sing while on their walk. They all went and came back as group from the Marsh/Middle Parish. |
1.08.51 - 1.12.23 |
Illnesses Measles, whooping cough, scabies, diphtheria- which 3 in her family had, Mary was the carrier. Puts it down to lack of hygiene. Diphtheria was the killer disease aside from TB. Her 3 family members were isolated in St Finbarr’s Hospital. Doctor told her mother to put her uninfected daughter into the hospital with the others to catch diphtheria and recover from it. Mary spent much of her time crying while in isolation and having to look out the window at her parents. It was sad. There were many medical tests. Recalls a neighbour who had polio. |
1.12.23 - 1.15.48
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Dispensary Grattan Street: Doctors and Medicines There were 6 doctors in the local Dispensary on Grattan Street. each area had its own doctor. People from the Marsh/ Middle Parish had Dr Cagney. Dr Cagney was very strict, very cross, “what else can I give you now beside a car?!” he said to Mary’s mother. Dr Cagney was a big man and elderly at the time and his son became a doctor too. [Dr Michael Cagney was his son, see: CFP_SR00762_OConnell_2019] Parishes Food it was like a tonic. Everyone liked the taste of it. You didn’t need a prescription for it. You brought an empty bottle to the dispensary after having visited the doctor who gave you a note with details of your required medicine and your bottle would be filled up accordingly in the dispensing unit. Cod liver oil was also recommended and was got in the Dispensary. Recalls giving her children cod liver oil with an orange to improve the taste. |
1.15.48 - 1.21.08
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Queuing in Dispensary for Doctor. Pharmacist and Caretaker Had to queue up on benches for up to 2 hours. There were 6 doctors, Dr Cagney was theirs. You’d get a prescription and then hand that to the dispensing unit on the way out. Thinks she recalls there being a Dr Fennell there as well. No appointments you just queued up. Beautiful atmosphere in there. She would know people there. Mentions 2 caretakers who lived on site. She knew is as “The Quakers” although she never met them but was aware that they had once lived there. Beautiful courtyard. Two families lived there either side of the front entrance: Morrissy’s (the dispenser) and Lucey’s or Healey’s were there caretakers. The daughters of the Morrissy’s would have been friends with Mary. [see also CFP_SR00760_Morrissy_2019;] Would see their neighbours in the waiting room. Couldn’t afford a private doctor. Different doctors there for different parts of the city. The Cagney’s were very popular, Dr Cagney’s son Michael took over. |
1.21.08 - 1.26.50 |
The Waiting Room could be very full with people. if the 6 doctors were present. Convenient living in Grattan Street as they were across the road. Very few chemists at the time. Everyone hoped they would get Parishes Food illnesses Polio and diphtheria. They weren’t afraid of the diseases, would be sometimes delighted to get sick to avoid school. Whooping cough and chickenpox were normal diseases. Treatment for whooping cough was mostly rest. There was an old saying “we got over the measles” Her brother Paddy was seriously affected by diphtheria. Symptoms of diphtheria You felt like your throat was coming up through your mouth. Thinks about how her parents coped with having children in St Finbarr’s isolation ward when they had no transport. |
1.26.50 - 1.32.00
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Christmas Party and ‘Simple Living’ of the Past There was a Christmas party for all the children with a bottle of watered down rasa/raza (raspberry cordial) and sweets. Everybody was on the same level except for a few who were slightly better off but they All going to the same school St Mary’s of the Isle. Great neighbourliness. Thinks they were very lucky and that their parents kept them “on the straight and narrow”. Says there was a lot of problems alcohol and drink but not in her family- suggests some people may not have had enough money to pay for food due to alcoholism. John O’Shea [likely the same O’Shea interviewed CFP00774] wrote a book about the “Red City” the Northside of Cork. Much of the book Mary agreed with and identifies with eg. box cars, collecting wood and making bundles out of it to sell it. “What we had to do to make a couple of bob” eg the Pawn shops. People were happy to live that way she thinks. Simple living. |
1.32.00 - 1.33.25
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Quakers and Grattan Street The Quakers did live in Grattan Street, it was their religion. Mary says her daughter-in-law is working in Grattan Street. It was a lovely building. |
1.33.25 - 1.34.19
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School behind Dispensary St. Francis Boys School was at the back of the dispensary. “Rowdy Boys College” was what it was called at the time. Thinks that there is a private school in there at the moment. |
1.34.19 - 1.35.04 |
Happiness and Gratitude Reiterates that they were the happiest days of her life games as children, made their own enjoyment and is grateful for her good parents. And feels sorry for people today who aren’t as lucky. |
1.35.04 - 1.36.31
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LDF Local Defence Force Recalls the LDF (Local Defence Force) marching and as being part of the army and they wore berets. |
1.36.31 - 0.00.00
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Attitude towards the dispensary Dr Cagney lived on Summerhill North. His son took over. Mark Cagney the radio presenter is related to that family. Dr Cagney looked after Mary’s mother Mary. Says Dr Cagney senior was abrupt but had respect for the elderly which is not always the case today, thinks that sometimes elderly people can be treated as just a number. |
1.39.20 - 1.44.48
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The Franciscans They were friendly, spiritual and gave people time. People knew the Franciscans personally they weren’t snobs and you could invite them into your house for tea. The Franciscans were out more. Many people in Grattan Street were in the choir in St Francis. They also hosted a Christmas party for the children. Recalls them being funnier and more down to earth than regular priests. Went to mass in St Francis. St Peter and Paul’s was their parish church to which they went once a month for the confraternity meeting for rosary and prayers on Monday night and the following Sunday there was a confraternity mass at 8am on Sunday. Had to be fasting from the night before to receive holy communion. They had breakfast then after mass. On some Sundays they might have a rasher and egg- their father would get priority for a good breakfast. On Sunday would do their homework, go to Fitzgerald’s Park, Lee Fields to the outdoor baths. |
1.44.48 - 1.48.22
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Religion: Fasting Rules and Rejecting Man-made Religious Rules Today Fasted before Holy Communion and for Good Friday, they didn’t eat meat which was easy as they didn’t have much meat, but it is harder now for her to abstain from meat. Doesn’t fast on Good Friday anymore, she would eat meat. She has “no scruples” anymore about eating meat on Friday. “It don’t bother me” She feels she has “did my bit” and “we did more than our bit”, they didn’t have to do what they did. She considers these rules and restrictions to be manmade laws. She decides for herself now whether to eat before communion or on Fridays. Would prefer to go back to a basic, simple religion which would include going to mass and a few prayers at night, but without all the dogmatic things and novenas. Thinks that some people in the past probably didn’t bother following all those rules. People felt they were guilty of sin and felt it and went to confession. |
1.48.22 - 1.55.12
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Confession: Unfair on Children and Story of a Lenient Priest Mary used to teach young “itinerant” or traveller children for their First Holy Communion. Brought them for their first confession to the North Cathedral. The children were speaking so loudly that she could hear their sins and recalls one of them saying “I stucked out me tongue at me nanny” and thinks it was wrong that children were made to feel guilt and sin about something so small. People would say “you’d go to hell”. She thinks this was very wrong. She thinks that she took these rules to heart and Jesus never expected people to behave as they were required to. “Everything we did was a sin” “We went to confession shaking” “We came up the hard way, we were guilty of stupid things.” And says that their parents were the same way. They were chastised at home. Kissing a boy was considered to be a sin, but she doesn’t believe it was a sin in retrospect. Priest in North Cathedral who was reputed to say “God bless you my child” in response to any confessed sin no matter how grave. There used to be queues for this Fr Hart. Says that she would know herself whether something was wrong or right. Some people took sins too far, and some people would stay away from confession for years because they were so afraid of what their sin was even though it was not that serious. People went to Fr Hart in the North Chapel/ North Cathedral because of his easier approach. |
1.55.12 - 1.56.22
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No Sex before Marriage There was “very clean living before we got married”. There was never sex involved before her marriage. And she believes this was the right way. |
1.56.22 - 2.01.24
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First Holy Communion and Children Understanding Religion Was teaching the Northside traveller children in St Mary’s Cathedral (North Cathedral) as she was in the Legion of Mary on Brown Street. Doesn’t think that children really understand their religion when they are so young so they should wait until they are older, maybe 12 years old before they make their first holy communion. Recalls her own First Holy Communion as being very serious. Got dressed and had a veil and went to a photographer on Windmill Road. Everything was so respectful and disciplined. Mary returns to discussing the funeral mass for Terry McCarthy to compare the beauty and respect of that mass. Her own communion dress was made for her, as most people did at the time. Visited all her cousins for her First Holy Communion and “got the few bob” received money from family members and went home to count it on the table. She gave her parents some of the money. Thinks today that children make about 1,000 euro on their First Holy Communion and that this has become its real purpose and meaning. The church is full for Holy Communion day but the next Sunday they are not present. Mary made her own communion in South Chapel because she was going to St Mary’s of the Isle School. |
2.01.24 - 2.07.46
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Grateful for her Happy Memories and Good Friends Recalls her happiness and friends from school. Friendship, respect for parents, teachers and friends were her memories of the past. Still in contact with those old friends. Sincere friendships and bonds. “Always keep your friends” is what Mary recommends. She meets her friends to reminisce and recall things that she might have forgotten. She would never dismiss anything that happened years ago. [02.04.10 ] “I’ll tell you something now like” when she can’t sleep things from the past come back to her and she thinks about them for hours. Feels lucky she has these lovely memories to fall back on. Very simple living and they shopped locally. |
2.05.16-2.07.55
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Shops, Sweets, Candy Apples on Gerald Griffin Street The milk emporium the daily lived second-next-door to them and they sold milk and eggs, butter. Tuckshop was underneath for sweets. There were shops on every corner, you could go into “Candy apples was a big thing at the time” There was a place near the North Cathedral on Gerald Griffin Street where a woman would stick a lollipop stick into an eating apple, cover it in sugar and put it into a holder to sell it. Mary says that she didn’t expect to have been speaking for so long. Mary asks the interviewer what time it is, he responds that it’s after 1pm. One son calls to her for dinner but he will “help himself”. |
2.07.46- 2.07.55
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Outro |
2.07.55
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Interview Ends |
Speaks of the poverty in the Middle Parish which necessitated buying goods on credit and selling clothes and jewellery to pawnshops. Mentions pawn locations. Mentions bringing empty bottles to shops to fill them with milk.
Discusses the conditions of the tenement houses in the Middle Parish including the sanitation arrangements such as outdoor toilets and the use of newspaper as toilet paper, he also mentions heating issues including timber, turf and coal which was available via a voucher scheme. Further discusses cooking, washing in the tenements including the introduction of gas and electricity. Also mentions medicines for lice and worms administered at home.
Says that boys and girls played different games separately when he was growing up. Mentions some of these games in more detail.
Discusses foods (including tripe and drisheen, pig’s tongue, Connie Dodgers) meal routines and the shops where food was purchased. Liam and his mother brought lunch to his father where he worked on the docks.
Returns to the topic of corner shops and shopping and the types of food available there, further comparing this to supermarkets today.
Speaks of the death of his mother and the change in living circumstances that this entailed.
Describes getting a vaccination in the dispensary, what it was like inside and who worked there.
Mentions fights outside bars at night time.
Talks about air raid shelters built in Cork city during the Second World War, what they looked like and where they were located.
]]>Liam Ó hUigín: Grattan Street, Healthcare, The Marsh
Liam grew up on Henry Street in The Marsh and recalls playing football on Grattan Street which was busy and full of activity with businesses, pubs, shops a fire station, barber shops and tenements. He discusses some shops and games in more detail.
Speaks of the poverty in the Middle Parish which necessitated buying goods on credit and selling clothes and jewellery to pawnshops. Mentions pawn locations. Mentions bringing empty bottles to shops to fill them with milk.
Discusses the conditions of the tenement houses in the Middle Parish including the sanitation arrangements such as outdoor toilets and the use of newspaper as toilet paper, he also mentions heating issues including timber, turf and coal which was available via a voucher scheme. Further discusses cooking, washing in the tenements including the introduction of gas and electricity. Also mentions medicines for lice and worms administered at home.
Says that boys and girls played different games separately when he was growing up. Mentions some of these games in more detail.
Discusses foods (including tripe and drisheen, pig’s tongue, Connie Dodgers) meal routines and the shops where food was purchased. Liam and his mother brought lunch to his father where he worked on the docks.
Returns to the topic of corner shops and shopping and the types of food available there, further comparing this to supermarkets today.
Speaks of the death of his mother and the change in living circumstances that this entailed.
Describes getting a vaccination in the dispensary, what it was like inside and who worked there.
Mentions fights outside bars at night time.
Talks about air raid shelters built in Cork city during the Second World War, what they looked like and where they were located.
0.00.00 - 0.00.31 |
intro |
0.00.31 - 0.02.55 |
Memories of Grattan Street and surrounding area Shops and Buildings Grattan Street was a busy street with many businesses. Most important was the fire brigade. When the new St Francis Church was being built (Broad Lane church as it was called by people in the Middle Parish) the fire brigade amalgamated with Sullivan’s Quay and the priest of Old Broad Lane church moved into the old fire brigade building while new church was being built. Children missed the excitement of the fire brigade. Very vibrant street. 6 pubs: Kellehers, Crosses, Landers, Carrols (later called the Tostal Inn), Ramble Inn (owned by Mrs Brick) two Murphys public houses near Broad Lane which runs from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Shops and sweet Shops: The Rodisses, The People’s Dairy, The M Laundries, 2 Gents Hairdressing Saloons (called barber shops): Leahy’s and Keanes. Where the Community Centre is now was called Mechanics Hall, because the mechanics had a union and meetings there. Later it was known as Matt Talbot Hall. There were lots of tenement houses in the area. [Liam’s phone rings.] |
0.03.06 - 0.05:04 |
Tenement Houses, Lanes, playing in Graveyard Where Patrick Hanely Buildings are now there were tenement houses. Liam only barely remembers them as they were being demolished in the late 1940s and early 1950s. They were derelict sites for a while, which was his playground. St Peter’s Cemetery down Peter Church Lane, playing among the headstones, and hiding or planking cigarettes. Shops: Manning’s Shops at corner of Henry Street and Grattan Street, Mrs Mullins at corner of Coleman’s Lane. From Coleman’s Lane to Adelaide Street there were 4 or 5 houses there with 4 or 5 families in each house. Remembers Shinkwin? Family, the Dineens. When they moved out they went to Gurranabraher, Ballyphehane and the suburbs in Ballincollig. |
0.05:04 - 0.06.56 |
Childhood Games and Activities Very little Traffic on the roads at the time. Liam was living in Henry Street round the corner from Grattan Street. Recalls soccer matches from one end of the street to the other and wouldn’t see a car. Friends who came from Blarney Street or Barrack Street couldn’t understand why the streets were so wide and loved it for a game of football. If a woman with a pram approached while they were playing football they would pick up the ball or if they played near the Mercy Hospital they knew that they should keep quiet without anyone telling them and Liam thinks that has changed today. Many of his friends live in Grattan Street and everyone was a happy family until there was a row and they had a battering match with “stones down the quarry”. They used to swim by the Mercy Hospital by the ladder. And then on to ‘the pipe’ up the Lee Fields and then the weir and every second day they had the Lee Baths one day for boys one for girls. Today it’s mixed. |
0.06.56 - 0.11.32 |
Poverty-Buying on Credit and using Pawn Shops Could get messages or shopping on tick or on credit. Milk, bread, quarter (pound) of cheese. There was no bottle of milk you had to bring in your own jug. If you ran out of money the shopkeeper would write it into a book and at the end of the week you could pay it off. A few people could afford not to be ‘on tick’. There were a few pawn shops on the North Main Street one near north Gate Bridge Jones, another across from Coleman’s Lane called Twomeys. There may have been more. There was one at the bottom of Shandon street owned by Jones as well. There were 18 or 19 pawn shops around the city one at bottom of Patrick’s Hill, one by fire brigade station on Sullivan’s Quay, two on Barrack Street. People would pawn clothes. Tradesmen would pawn trowels on Monday morning. Often for drink/ alcohol. Wives would pawn husband’s suit and take it back the following Saturday for going to mass. Nearly everyone used the pawn it was the forerunner to the Credit Union. If you pawned a pair of shoes for 10 shillings, you got a docket and you had to pay 11 shillings to get it back. Wives would be stressed making sure they could get the husband’s suit back in time for mass. It was a thriving business. If you didn’t claim your pawned items after a certain period it was put for sale in the window. Some people would pawn things openly. Other people would hide it under a shawl, or pretend to be pawning something for someone else. People felt ashamed. Almost everyone was scraping a living. Even some shopkeepers looked after people who may not have had enough to pay at the end of the week. At Christmas the shopkeeper would give you a present of a Christmas Cake or Christmas Candle depending on what type of customer you were. |
0.11.32 - 0.13.02 |
Work, Pawns, Showing off Wealth Liam doesn’t remember what or whether his family pawned. Liam’s dad was a docker which was paid on a daily basis and his mother was shrewd enough to put away some money every day. He knew that relations of his pawned things though. Bracelets, wedding ring, engagement ring, rarely a watch very few people had watches. Liam knew someone who went to work in Dagenham and he came back a Dagenham Yank with a different accent “a twang” and a watch. He walked into centre of Henry Street, pulled up his sleeve and pretended to be winging his watch while looking at Shandon clock tower just to show off his watch. |
0.13.02 - 0.13.46 |
Telephone Phones were also very scarce. One shop in Henry Street had a phone and there was a queue there for people wanting to use it. There was another phone booth by Vincent’s Bridge coming down Sunday’s Well. Liam remembers playing there and being afraid to go in to answer the phone. |
0.13.46 - 0.18.37 |
Tenement conditions, Emigrants, Social Comparison, Fuel Poverty Laneways around there: Philip’s Lane from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Skiddy’s Castle from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Coleman’s Lane, Peter Church Lane (now Avenue), Broad Lane (at the back of the church), all on to North Main Street from Grattan Street. Conditions were basic looking back with an outdoor toilet. One family on Henry Street had ten families with one cold tap in back yard and one toilet between them. They had to clean out every morning and bring an enamel bucket upstairs every morning. Had an inferiority complex about relations coming home from England. The relatives would be dressed up in finery but later Liam discovered they were also badly off but made the effort when coming home. The story of someone’s uncle who came back from America after 40 years and the family had moved out to the suburbs and they had a barbeque. And the uncle used the toilet inside the house. He said he used to eat inside and the toilet was outside and now it is reversed! They used newspaper instead of toilet paper. Turf and timber blocks for fuel for heating which father got going out the Straight Road. Some people got a voucher for a peck of coal which might only be a large shovel full. Some families got vouchers for free shoes like in the shop Furlongs in South Main Street (owner may have been lord mayor later) Liam wasn’t sure where the vouchers came from- maybe the Health Board. Doesn’t think there was any child benefit. Maybe the Sick Poor would provide the vouchers. They would visit people and the people would try to hide that they were calling. |
0.18.37 - 0.22.42 |
Cooking, Bathing, Hygiene and Medicines No cooking facilities only the fire. Mother would cook pot of potatoes on the fire and then transfer to the hob. 1948 no electricity in Henry Street at the time. When they got gas in mother told him not to leave kitchen door open to hide it from Liam’s grandmother who lived upstairs and was the real tenant. It wasn’t an oven it was a thing on a stand with two rings on it. Older people were afraid of being gassed. Saturday night the galvanised bath was put in front of fire with hot water and washed, and if you were the last person in the bath the water would be dirty. And then the children were lined up against the wall to get a weekly does of cod liver oil, or Brutlax, California syrup of figs, Senna? All because of worms. Some newspaper put on the table and hair combed with fine tooth comb to get rid of lice- it was an ordeal. Brutlax was like chocolate but a laxative. Milk of magnesia used as well. Given those every Saturday night to prevent you getting sick. Some of them had a terrible taste. If someone got sick taken to the dispensary. |
0.22.42 - 0.24.12 |
Children’s Games Different for boys and girls Spent much time in the derelict site where Patrick Hanley Buildings are now, used to connect to Cove street. They had battering matches with stones and they were going to the Mercy Hospital 4 or 5 times a week. They used to play chasing hiding from the nuns around the Mercy Hospital. Could bring a spinning top and hit is with a whip up and down the road without fear of traffic. Girls would tie a rope to a pole and swing around it and skipping as well. |
0.24.12 - 0.31.57 |
Food, traditions, routines. Lunch at Work Porridge for breakfast which you eat if you were given. His grandchildren now have a choice of 5 cereals. Goodie- bread and milk mixed maybe with sugar sprinkled on it. Some shops on North Main Street like Simcox or Currans Bakery you could get bread wrapped in soft tissue paper which was kept in a drawer at home for when visitors came to use for the toilet because it was better than newspaper. Potatoes and cabbage. Father loved pigs meat: pig’s heat, backbone, pig’s tail, crubeens. Liam still loves a crubeen except for the trouble of cooking of it, and it’s messy to eat. Mother was reared around Vicar Street. Barrack Street, Blarney Street, Shandon Street: that’s the way people lived because there was little Gurranabraher built and Ballyphehane wasn’t built yet. Tripe and drisheen is still a favourite, can get from Reilly’s in the market. Tripe cut into little pieces, with cornflower, onions, “white sauce”, drisheen put in later. Tripe and drisheen would be weekly. Liam loved the pig’s tongue because it was lean. Set day for each food. Liam’s dad was a docker and he would cut the ear off the pig’s head, put it in a sandwich with bread and butter, wrap in newspaper and that was his lunch. He wasn’t the only one. Thinks tripe is from sheep’s stomach. Blood in the drisheen. Connie Dodgers for Lent allowed one meal and two collations. Con Lucey said you could have a biscuit with a cup of tea as a collation. Liam thinks it was Larry McCarthy’s bakery that made a biscuit twice as big as the normal one. For Lent had to fast every Friday and couldn’t eat meat, except for people of a certain age. Religion was a big thing for people at the time. Lent didn’t bother Liam’s dad. Dockers worked hard. Where Elysian Tower is now, where the Eglinton Baths were Liam went with his mother and a bowl of soup and bread and butter and a tea towel over it. The dockers sat on the kerb eating their soup and sandwiches and they were all black with dirt no washing of hands. All the work was shovelling coal, Liam worked there for 2 days and had enough of it- nearly wanted a small shovel to fill the shovel he had. His dad was small but very wiry and strong. “They were marvellous people” |
0.31.57- 0.37.05 |
Pastimes, Shops and Opening Hours Dad spent time in the pub maybe too much. People listened to the radio or sat in front of the fire reading the newspaper. Some people with go hunting or play football or hurling. Liam plays golf now but at the time it was only for the elite doctors and solicitors. Liam’s dad never stood inside a golf club. Liam was 10 when his mother died she would offer him tripe and drisheen or a creamy cake for dinner and he would choose the cake. The corner shops are gone now because of the supermarkets. Corner shops on Henry Street were: Bode’s?, Mannings, Horrigan’s, Dermot’s on Adelaide Street. Dermot’s was first all-night shop in the city- wouldn’t be there during the day. Open from 8pm to 8am. A salesman in coca cola told Liam that Dermot lived on Pope’s Quay and owned a Morris Minor car and he drove it to Adelaide Street 7 days a week and the car was ten years old and there wasn’t 5,000 miles on it because that was all the driving he did. In Ballypheane Liam sees people carrying lots of bags after shopping in Aldi on Tory Top Road. Liam remembers going to Dermot’s for quarter pound of cheese (3 or 4 slices), half pound of tea, 2 eggs, there were no fridges so you bought and you ate them there was little storage. Dermot would put greaseproof paper over the blade and cut perfectly a few slices of cheese which had come from a timber box. Girls were interested in the box for making cots for dolls. There was no variety of cheese available just the one block. Sugar was available in quarter pounds rather than big bags. Men coming home from the pub would be sent back out to get a box of cocoa or milk from Dermot’s. There was no one on the street after 12 o’clock unlike today when there’s lots of people around after nightclubs. |
0.37.05 - 0.39.00 |
Death of Mother and Family Living Arrangements When Liam’s mom died his aunt who had 6 children moved upstairs from Liam. She has 5 daughters and 1 son and the son died of meningitis at 4 years old. Liam’s grandfather was dead. Aunt moved to grandmother in Vicar Street to look after her. Liam was going to school in Mardyke, father’s place during the day, went to grandmother’s in Vicar Street for food and washing and then back to the Marsh to sleep. He skipped school for almost 3 months (‘on the lang’) until the school wrote to his dad, who gave him a lecture. He was nearly 14 then and on the verge of leaving school anyway. |
0.39.00 - 0.44.13 |
The Dispensary now Grattan Street Health Centre, Tinsmith and Nurse Lots of cases of meningitis. Everyone in Cork used to go to the Dispensary. Everyone now in their 70s seems to remember Dr Cagney. He would give a bottle of coloured water. If you forgot your bottle you had to go to Mr Gamble the tinsmith in Grattan Street. He made ponnies, gallons, billycans. But when plastic came in there was no need for tinsmiths. Remembers getting injection or vaccination from Dr Cagney, thinks it may have been for smallpox but is not sure. He dreaded the needles for the syringes which were “like six-inch nails”. You went through a gate, into a yard and there were steps leading up to the entrance. A grey-haired woman maybe called Mrs O’Keefe. There were benches like in a church. There were hatches. You queued up for the doctor. And the hatches gave you the medicine. Other place for illness was Mercy Hospital. Recalls a midwife Nurse Anthony who called to people’s houses. Liam thought when younger than it was the midwife who brought babies on her bicycle. Aunt lived on Thomas Street (a continuation of Peter’s Street) to the back entrance of the Mercy Hospital where the “dead house” was where Liam’s mother was laid out. Remembers the Quirkes and the Horgans, Glandons?, McCarthys living there too and they all moved out when Mercy took over the whole block. Liam doesn’t remember playing around inside the Dispensary. |
0.44.13 - 0.45.35 |
Making vs Buying Lunch People who worked in Dispensary didn’t live in area. Doesn’t think people make lunches for work anymore. In modern day people go to shops like Spar for sandwiches and rolls. Wives/mothers used to make “lunches for them in the morning” for children who were working and there was a can with milk, tea and sugar. |
0.45.35 - 0.46.14 |
Families Living in Dispensary Grattan Street Thinks Mrs O’Keefe was only working there, possibly the cleaner. Mrs O’Keefe may not have been her name. Liam doesn’t think they were charging people in the dispensary. |
0.46.14 - 0.50.55 |
Attitude to health, Pubs, Fights, Market Gardens, Childhood Mischief There was no such thing as being left on a trolley. The Mercy hospital was the only hospital Liam knew, and every child in the Marsh went there at least once after a fall, hit with a stone on the head, a few stitches. Although, Liam’s aunt lost a son to meningitis. Didn’t have the medicines we have today. They were simple times but he doesn’t remember going hungry ever. Lots of pubs on Grattan Street and people were spending lots of time and money which put a burden on the family. Saturday night on Grattan Street there would usually be a fight, stripped to the waist. Bonfire night used to be a great night but no longer. No awareness of mental health. Called the Lee Road the Madhouse Road. First coloured person Liam ever saw was on Sheares Street and when they saw him they called him “Johnny the Black” and they got a chase. A chase was very important for children at the time. Fisherman on Wise’s Quay near Vincent’s Bridge the children used to throw stones in to frighten the fish away and the fisherman would chase them. Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday the market gardeners would bring their produce on horse and carts to the Coal Quay and the shopkeepers would come to buy vegetables off them. Liam and the children would steal (“knock off”) some cabbage and carrots. “Oliver Twist was only trotting after us”. |
0.50.55 - 0.51.15
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Sweets You’d get a few sweets in Woolworths from the girls who worked there, to prevent them trying to steal them! |
0.51.15 - 0.55.10
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WW2 Air Raid Shelters in Cork Three air raid shelters on Sheare’s Street, 2 in Henry Street and maybe a few in Grattan Street, at least one. O’Connell on Sheares Street was in charge of air raid shelter no 3. Fear of being bombed by German’s during World War 2 mass concrete buildings rather than underground. Liam has photograph of an air raid shelter on Patrick Street outside the Victoria Hotel and a photograph of it being knocked down. The son of the man who had the key to air raid shelter no 3 would rent out the space to old children if it was raining and they wanted to use it to play cards. In the 1940s. he lived at corner of Moore Street and Sheares Street. They were being demolished in 1948 or 1949. Air raid shelter remains inside the door of Elizabeth Fort and there are 2 on the grounds of the South Infirmary (Victoria Hospital), they’ve now been converted to stores. If you stand at bottom of South Terrace and you look up at “Rock Savage” on top of the hill at the back of the South Infirmary you can see it protruding out. Liam remembers the LDF became the FCA and that their “top coats” were good as blankets during the winter as you could put your hands into the pockets. Nearly every house had an army coat on the bed. Everyone was issued with a gas mask, Liam has one from a friend of his. Everyone had to be measured for their gas mask at the city hall or in schools. Liam’s dad wasn’t not in the LDF but his uncle was and it was his coat that was on the bed. |
0.55.10 - 0.59.24 |
Grattan Street, Dispensary, surrounding lanes, Terence MacSwiney connection Grattan Street was busy, vibrant street, always something happening there. Can’t believe seeing the traffic there now. Liam took a photograph of Prince Charles stopped in traffic outside the plaque to Patrick Hanely Buildings. The Dispensary was a historical place, there was a time when Grattan Street was a river and Meeting House Lane from North Main Street (at the side of Bradleys) was the entrance to any of the buildings on Grattan Street. Henry Street was known as Penrose Quay. On Adelaide Street at the back of where Curran’s Restaurant was there was a square called Penrose Square- after the Penrose Family that lived in Tivoli. If you come down Coleman’s Lane from Grattan Street and enter North Main Street up on the wall there are four plaques for the building where Terence MacSwiney was born. People think he was born in Blackpool because they confuse him with Tomas MacCurtain. Terence married one of the Murphy brewers. Liam is very interested in Terence MacSwiney and loves talking about him, maybe because he comes from the same area in Cork. |
0.59.24 - 0.59.41
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Outro. Interview Ends. |
Mentions her brother’s physical and mental disability.
Discusses how the smell of tripe and drisheen reminds of father who died when she was young
Recounts her surprise and confusion as a child learning that her mother had remarried and her new husband was to live in the family home.
Outlines the routine on farm including looking after the cows, feeding hens, making bread, and how their dinner changed with seasonal availability of produce.
Talks about her commute to school on a bicycle with sister and standing up to boys who hassled them. Learned some subjects through Irish. Recalls her sister disliking being singled out by teacher because of her attractive eyes and hair.
Remembers seeing a young JP McManus cycling.
Explains how she always considered becoming a nurse. Discusses training and hospital experiences including with nuns. Believes that nurses who had worked abroad had a broader perspective on life.
Outlines the role of the Public Health Nurse which required entering patients’ houses and assisting them with births and deaths. Other features included the need to be able to read emotions and build trust with others and managing your work largely independently.
Describes some memorable cases as a PHN. A family singing Boney M to a baby with a severely lif-limiting condition. Waiting for an ambulance for a man struggling to breathe who lived without electricity. Trying to find help for an older woman struggling with dementia who was being passed from one agency to another without resolution. Fumigating a woman’s accommodation to rid it of fleas, the poor living conditions she found there and the ambivalent reaction of the woman to this health intervention.
Discusses vaccines, their role in eliminating polio and the varying attitudes to vaccination.
Recounts the story of social welfare officers in Grattan Street providing a bed to a woman who promptly sold it on the Coal Quay.
Reflects on the mutually beneficial mix of medical disciplines in Grattan Street and the positive relations between the staff.
Outlines the problems, changes and tensions relating to the car parking situation for Grattan Street staff and others in the surrounding community.
Talks about a child welfare issue where she had to attend court as a PHN.
Speaks of the deficiencies of the Grattan Street building including plaster falling off walls, the waste of paperwork, dry rot, bars on windows and a very out-of-date photocopier. Suggests future uses for the building.
Tells the story of the 2010 floods when the vaccines had to transferred with difficulty to St Finbarr’s Hospital for safety.
Discusses the desirable feature of the new building in Gurranbraher including it having a central meeting area and parking as well as being of a manageable size, accessible and approachable.
Reflects on how she found her career of helping others rewarding.
]]>‘Mary’ grew up on a farm in county Limerick, part of which was rented to a mental hospital to be worked by patients. By interacting with these patients she quickly learned who you could trust and who you couldn’t.
Mentions her brother’s physical and mental disability.
Discusses how the smell of tripe and drisheen reminds of father who died when she was young
Recounts her surprise and confusion as a child learning that her mother had remarried and her new husband was to live in the family home.
Outlines the routine on farm including looking after the cows, feeding hens, making bread, and how their dinner changed with seasonal availability of produce.
Talks about her commute to school on a bicycle with sister and standing up to boys who hassled them. Learned some subjects through Irish. Recalls her sister disliking being singled out by teacher because of her attractive eyes and hair.
Remembers seeing a young JP McManus cycling.
Explains how she always considered becoming a nurse. Discusses training and hospital experiences including with nuns. Believes that nurses who had worked abroad had a broader perspective on life.
Outlines the role of the Public Health Nurse which required entering patients’ houses and assisting them with births and deaths. Other features included the need to be able to read emotions and build trust with others and managing your work largely independently.
Describes some memorable cases as a PHN. A family singing Boney M to a baby with a severely lif-limiting condition. Waiting for an ambulance for a man struggling to breathe who lived without electricity. Trying to find help for an older woman struggling with dementia who was being passed from one agency to another without resolution. Fumigating a woman’s accommodation to rid it of fleas, the poor living conditions she found there and the ambivalent reaction of the woman to this health intervention.
Discusses vaccines, their role in eliminating polio and the varying attitudes to vaccination.
Recounts the story of social welfare officers in Grattan Street providing a bed to a woman who promptly sold it on the Coal Quay.
Reflects on the mutually beneficial mix of medical disciplines in Grattan Street and the positive relations between the staff.
Outlines the problems, changes and tensions relating to the car parking situation for Grattan Street staff and others in the surrounding community.
Talks about a child welfare issue where she had to attend court as a PHN.
Speaks of the deficiencies of the Grattan Street building including plaster falling off walls, the waste of paperwork, dry rot, bars on windows and a very out-of-date photocopier. Suggests future uses for the building.
Tells the story of the 2010 floods when the vaccines had to transferred with difficulty to St Finbarr’s Hospital for safety.
Discusses the desirable feature of the new building in Gurranbraher including it having a central meeting area and parking as well as being of a manageable size, accessible and approachable.
Reflects on how she found her career of helping others rewarding.
0.00.00 - 0.00.25 |
Intro |
0.00.25 - 0.02.29 |
Background Grew up in County Limerick. Dad died when young. Early memory as 3 year old feeding a calf. Trained in St Johns Limerick, midwifery in Glasgow, 1975 went to Australia- Melbourne, Sidney, Brisbane. Returned after a year. Worked in Orthopaedic hospital in Croom, Limerick. Came to Cork, worked in Sarsfield’s Court [Glanmire] in the chest unit. Met a man which is why she stayed in Cork. Nursing involved night-duty and weekends, and "Mary" was thinking forward and did the Public Health Course to become PHN Public Health Nurse- first assignment was Middle Parish based in Grattan Street. |
0.02.29 - 0.05.26 |
Early Memories: Father’s Death, Family Women with tea and USA biscuits. Seeing lines of men in the hay barn and animals coming out- must have been auction of the animals. One older brother mentally & physically handicapped, 2 younger sisters. Mental Hospital St Joseph’s in Limerick rented land from their farm so there was an income coming in without the mother taking sole responsibility for running the farm. It was therapy for the patients working on the farm despite being out in all weather. "Mary" thinks that many of the male patients were there as a result of the war. One man was called Sergeant. "Mary's" family also got fresh vegetables from them. Learning process for them, learned who they could trust and who not- “heightened our awareness of mankind”. Some people were fit and healthy and others had mental issues. |
0.05.26 - 0.09.30 |
Memory of Smell of Tripe Cooking reminds of dad When in St Johns in 2nd year of training ages 19 or 20- she had a memory of a taste and smell. Walking on corridor in 1st floor she got the smell. Found her way to room 8 and a priest was having tripe and drisheen or tripe and packet as it’s called in Limerick. You could get the smell passing Shaws abattoir on the way into Limerick City. They had a hooter which would sound at 1pm and 5pm or 6pm in the evening which could be heard by "Mary" at home. Says that tripe is the lining of a sheep’s stomach. “Villi”- nooks and crannies. Still buys it in the English Market on the left hand-side when you enter from the Grand Parade- and there was someone in front of her in the queue so she wasn’t the only one buying it! Advises opening a window to let the small out! |
0.09.30 - 0.10.35 |
Typical Day on the Farm when Growing up- making bread They had a cow on the farm. Woman called May who helped out their mother on the farm. They would put on their “busy coat” or “duds” to milk cow, bring in milk, make brown soda bread. Remembers mother making bread around 10am in an earthenware crock with sour milk in it which went into the Aga oven. |
0.10.35 - 0.13.05 |
Learning about her Mother Remarrying Tom worked with the mental hospital and he would call in and there was a china cup for him. "Mary" asked her mother whether Tom slept in the house now, and previously asked May where her mother was and was told she was on holidays. Subsequently she realised that her mother had married Tom and they had been on honeymoon. Reflects on how little information she was given about this change in situation and how it applies in her nursing role and thinks that sometimes less information is better when dealing with young children who may not fully understand everything. |
0.13.05- 0.16.00 |
Typical Day on the Farm when Growing up In winter deal with the cow: hay, water, and muck out. Cow let out in the field in spring and summer. Dinner would be any time after the cake was made- ready about 12:30. Dinner usually bacon, cabbage, carrots, parsnips. As season moved on more turnips and potatoes. Seasonal. Started with Ker Pinks then Golden Wonders, didn’t like soapy Aran Banners. Then apple or rhubarb tarts. Supper at 5pm or 6pm: beans, bananas, eggs. They had hens which had to be fed. Went to bed at 8pm or 9pm. In evening have to bring the cow back down and there might be 10 or 12 bullocks following you- nightmare that they would trample you to death? Mother and May made the food. When "Mary" was 7 or 8 years old May was let go as "Mary" was considered old enough to help out. |
0.16.00- 0.17.57 |
Interaction with the Patients of the Mental Hospital Looking out the window watching them. Sheep shearing and rolling of the wool. Taking off the “daggings” and rolling the wool into fleeces. Or bringing in the hay watching them piking and the change from horses to tractors. There was an archway into their yard and it became harder to get larger machines through the arch over time. Later on it became bales of hay rather than wines of hay (in Limerick) whereas in Cork they would call it trams. |
0.17.57 - 0.19.17 |
Animals, Games and Mushrooms They prepared the animals with special soaps for the Limerick Show in August [Limerick Agricultural Show Society]. As children they would sit on the walls in the cow house (cowhouse) and use the chains as stirrups and pretend to be riding horses. Picked mushrooms in fields often along the path the cows had made where you’d find mushrooms. |
0.19.17- 0.21.36
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Going to School and Standing up for Yourself Walk across the fields to get to the road to school which was 2 miles away, wear wellies if raining. When older cycled to school. Had the younger sister in the carrier. Fell off the bike coming down Ryan’s Hill and the sister fell into the bushes and the nettles. Mother gave out to them for falling off the bike. In 6th class coming up the hill on was home from school at cousin Mick Clancy’s hill boys thought it was fun to hold on to the carrier to hold them back. "Mary's" mother advised to throw a stone at the boys. The next time it happened she picked up a rock and the boys ran away. It was lesson for "Mary" for life to stand up for herself and that the threat was enough to work. |
0.21.36- 0.25.44
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School 5 years old when she started school, thinks it might have been around Easter time. Small two teacher school. Mrs McAvoy the principal of the school had taught her father, and was distantly related to "Mary". "Mary's" sister was put on the teacher’s desk to be admired because of her beautiful eyes and hair- which she disliked because she was being made to feel different. 6 pupils in her class in 5th class and they were given the choice to do History and Geography through English or Irish and they chose to do it through Irish. The teacher was from Dingle and from him they learned a “love and appreciation” for Irish. Had good spoken Irish in a secondary school in Limerick City. Her knowledge of Irish helped later on as a PHN when she was assigned an area which had a Gaeltacht in it. Most Gaeltacht schools were insistent that the PHNs did use Irish. "Mary" went to Secondary School in the Presentation in Sexton Street. |
0.25.44 - 0.27.57 |
Neighbour’s House and JP McManus on a Bike A little old lady, a spinster called Noni lived in road opposite them. She had old open fireplace with bellows, and thatched roof and two dogs. "Mary" had a step-brother and a step-sister. The step brother was quiet and calm in Noni’s house but he was cross and looking for attention when he was at home. A guy in secondary school used to cycle past in a red bike and "Mary" later discovered it was JP McManus [businessman and racehorse owner] and her younger sister knew him. |
0.27.57 - 0.29.49
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Starting in Nursing after School Always in the back of her mind to do nursing. Did leaving cert when 17 and did interview for nursing. Had started a commercial course. The Blue Nuns ran St. John’s Hospital and knew she was due to start in February. Millford House in Castletroy was run by Blue Nuns and they had a nursing home and "Mary" dropped the commercial course and worked there as a nurses aid. It was a good introduction and confidence building exercise for her. "Mary" thinks that for the nuns patient care was paramount and the written work less important but it is almost the reverse today. |
0.29.49 - 0.34.51
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Decision to do Nursing and Other Career Options Looking at magazines and what nursing involved. Career guidance consisted of blue leaflets. Through the commercial course "Mary" heard about the Junior X course to get into the civil service and the ESB jobs which she hadn’t been aware of through school. Travel was something that she considered and nursing catered for that. The nurses who had lived abroad were easier to work with they had a broader perspective on life and “didn’t sweat the small stuff”. When you started nursing you got to see the different fields and "Mary" liked theatre work and enjoyed the labour ward when she was doing midwifery. Matron had said to her that she should considered doing the tutoring course. Thinks this is because she was questioning what her tutor was reading out of textbooks. She applied for the tutoring course. But she while she had anatomy and biology for the leaving cert but not chemistry and physics. So she did leaving cert physics and chemistry that year but dropped the physics because she had also taken on introduction to psychology. But she had already gotten the Public Health so she chose that. |
0.34.51 - 0.43.07 |
Public Health Nurse: Role and Duties PHN you are on your own to some extent you can plan your day, assess the patient. Communicate with the patient GP and hospital. You were independent to a large extent. Had continuity you could see things improving or ‘disimproving’. House visits, vaccination clinics as part of a team, coffee or lunch in Grattan Street where you met other disciplines not just nursing. A mix. Could be rostered for a dressings clinic in Grattan Street. They might have been referred after discharge from the Mercy Hospital. Now the Mercy would have its own dressings clinic. Going to schools dealing with healthy children and teachers. Originally had an admin person with them but now just a doctor and nurse when going to vaccinate in schools. HPV vaccination a big team goes to try to get the first years done in one go. Health promotion going into houses and dealing with young mums. Private houses, corporation houses built in 1950s and 1960s, apartments or flats as they called them then. Leave a note for someone who you couldn’t find in a flat. Maybe a baby that wasn’t feeding very well. Hear that the mother has moved house and start detective work to track her down asking neighbours. And the nurse in their new area would be informed. Write letters to council about the poor conditions of housing. And then neighbours would ask for letters then as well. |
0.43.07 - 0.51.42 |
Perspective & Expectations of Patients on Healthcare Most people were welcoming and giving you tea that you didn’t want. A few were trying to get the PHN to adapt too much to their own schedules. For patients the PHN came at the beginning of life and at the end of life. Would be asked “do you think it’s better today nurse?” and trying to read the emotions of the other family members. Understanding with the GP about what the family situation was. Some people would ask for everything they thought they could get other families would never ask for anything. PHN has to decide how necessary a request is or how much someone needs to be persuaded. Try to stay on side and be persistent. Older people at the time had the idea that you only left a hospital in a box. So it could be hard to persuade them to go to hospital. Fear of lack of independence as well. Reflect on how nursing training prepares PHN for these situations. "Tread wearily" and "feel the vibes" when entering a new patient environment. Privilege to be with people in their time of need because you felt that you were doing something and you were a support to the family especially in the time before morphine pumps. Even saying “I don’t think anything is going to happen tonight” might be the simple reassurance that the family wants. Fear with a bedbound patient is that they would get pressure sores. One of the ways to avoid this is to change their position. And there was some education involved in ensuring whoever was moving the patient when the PHN isn’t there was doing it correctly. Extended family would assist with a patient in a way less common today. |
0.51.42 - 0.55.45
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Memories of mothers and their babies and music Remembers a family who lived in one of the lanes off North Main Street. “me mam” was what the family called the beautiful mother who had a lame leg, she had grey-blond hair. One of the daughters had a baby that had a life-limited condition. The whole family were supporting them. They were always well made-up and the sick baby was in the middle. The baby didn’t survive only lived for 8 or 9 months. The family used to sing “Brown Girl in the Ring” by Boney M and the baby used to recognise it and respond. Sleet and rain coming up North Main Street. Pound shop maybe called Powers Jim Reeves and Bing Crosby singing White Christmas which lifted her heart. Streets were full at Christmastime. |
0.55.45 - 1.01.36
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Patients and Cases and conditions in the Grattan Street/ Middle Parish Area Remembers rickety stairs leading to flats above shops which you wouldn’t realise were there. Old man lived in laneway off Grattan Street in a tenement house like those in Glasgow she had seen near York Hill, with red sandstone buildings. Went to this man on a quick “social visit” and he had rasping breath. Just “kippins” or laths on the fire. No electricity. Waiting two hours for ambulance to come. Man didn’t survive. Something else in place of the building now. There may not have been a door on the house you could just walk straight in. |
0.55.45 - 0.58.18 |
Patients and Cases and conditions in the Grattan Street/ Middle Parish Area- difficulties of nursing and dealing with different agencies. Woman with dementia in 1970s one room flat in warm house. Bathroom outside. Wasn’t able to look after herself. Had the newspapers stored on top of the electric cooker. GP trying to get her somewhere. Woman would lock herself out. Half naked walking across Sheare’s Street. "Mary" put her in own car and brought her to Our Lady’s Hospital to be seen by psychiatrist. They wouldn’t take her because of her age. Arranged geriatrician appointment who wouldn’t take her because she was psychiatric. A “street woman” (homeless woman) moved in with her and was able to make sure the house wouldn’t be set on fire. Meals on Wheels or Penny Dinners sharing the one meal. "Mary's" frustration with the bureaucracy. |
0.58.18 - 1.05.20 |
Woman with Flea Bites/ Flea Marks "Mary" being polite said told her it was a rash but the woman had no qualms about calling them fleabites. "Mary" got temporary eviction order to clean out her flat. Process was traumatic for "Mary" & the woman. Woman spent her time in St Francis Church while her flat was being cleaned. The woman had collected things from bins and stored them in her house in case she might use them and they removed 57 bags of rubbish. Found a beautiful photograph album. Mounds of rubbish as high as the bed. Bucket to empty into the toilet. Candles in danger of burning the house down. The woman was upset that her stuff had been taken but they had put her things in storage in case she wanted them. As PHN you can wear your own clothes but "Mary"wore white uniform in case of infestation in the flat. Man from environmental health section sprayed the flat. "Mary" counted 57 dead fleas on her uniform when she took it off in the bath when she got home. Later with her boyfriend at the time the same woman shouted “Hello nurse!” at her. |
1.05.20 - 1.18.38
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Vaccines, Vaccination and the anti-vaccination People were pro vaccinate after 1956 polio outbreak in Cork. Many people would have been familiar with Polio, its devastating affect and that you can be vaccinated against it. People had to come to the clinic 3 or 4 times with a baby which might be difficult for families with many children and buggies. Remembers vulnerable family in Knocknaheeney. The mother was poor with keeping appointments and she came in the pouring rain with 4 or 5 children. Cost of taxi was 11 pounds or euro even though she had to live on social welfare. The staff suggested that she could get a bus. But she pointed out that one of her children was ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) and that he would be climbing on the bus stop. "Mary" says the woman deserved a medal and reflects that they as staff had been judging her for her predicament. Crowds of people and buggies. Role of extended family in assisting with child rearing. Some children may be difficult to deal with. Obstacles to families getting children vaccinated. Vaccination card files. Brought from City Hall to the place of vaccination and not locked. Vaccines were taken from a fridge in City Hall and brought in a biscuit tin along with adrenaline in case someone had a reaction. Compares this to the modern method of cold-chain. After Professor Wakefield made an association between MMR vaccine and autism the vaccination uptake reduced and it’s been an uphill battle since to reverse it. In 1970s and 1980s there was memory of measles, mumps, meningitis and polio. "Mary" worked in a school where a child refused vaccinations in junior infants in the early 1980s. That child got measles, encephalitis and was in a wheelchair by 1st class and by age 8 or 9 she was dead. HCA (Handicapped Childrens Allowance) allowance handicapped children’s allowance financial support for the extra care that was needed for the child. Thinks of the scaremongering about vaccines and the consciences of those people if they knew what the result of not getting vaccinated was. That incident happened in the early 1980s. Worked with a doctor who had difficulty walking after he had got polio in the 1950s. Young mothers in 1970s and 1980s had mothers who influenced them based on their accounts in the diseases in 1950s. Rural approach to vaccines: if you eat healthy and are healthy then you won’t contract the disease. "Mary" says that while a weaker person succumbs to a disease faster it’s not a protection against a disease. Rural culture which still exists of “I don’t believe in vaccines”. HPV vaccines. With all vaccines certain percentage of risk even though it is very rare. Weigh up the advantages versus the risk of something happening. Vaccine cold chain from manufacturer to the administering to the child is much more streamlined. Incidence of polio came down so vaccines were effective. |
1.18.38 - 1.21.46
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Earliest Memories of Grattan Street Waiting room now it’s opened up with pillars and a balcony. When "Mary" started it had a ceiling and so was enclosed and it had a wooden floor where you could hear the “clip clop” of people walking across it echoing. They didn’t have access to the upstairs with stores and pigeons. According to Anne [a friend who worked there] there were stores of the things leftover from when Grattan Street was used as a dispensary/pharmacy/chemist. Old fashioned metal chairs with a timber seat. Queue in the mornings for the dressing, older people with big swollen legs. Mr Hart and Mr Condon were the social welfare officers and they would have clinics which had crowds of people waiting for them. People would receive bed linen or washing machines. Mr Hart advised "Mary" once that when he started out he was given a sob story and he got someone a number of beds and later he saw them being sold on the Coal Quay! Smoking was allowed at the time so there was the smell and fog of smoke. |
1.21.46 - 1.23.14
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Repairs and Revamp/ Refurbishment of Grattan Street Transferred to the City Hall while there was revamping or refurbishing of Grattan Street. Once they returned one of the admin staff noticed that a there was some dry rot on part of the wood in the jam of the door and more repairs had to be done. Beautiful once the repairs were done. Opened up the ceiling with the balcony. The big tea room could be used for meetings and there was a fridge and kettle- luxury! |
1.23.14 - 1.27.35 |
Grattan Street as a Workplace “You could never call it glamorous!”. Bars on the windows. Hose reel for the fire. For fire drills the bars on some windows could be opened. The people to work with were fabulous. Dave in podiatry said ‘the building was crap but the people were lovely’. Building was fine, serviceable. "Mary" had a sense of history of the building and that it was privilege to work in it. Beautiful cut limestone blocks. Appreciated that and the big windows. Anne set off the alarm once when she went out the back door. There was once a mix up with the keys. The cleaners would lock up and throw the keys in the letter box and someone else would open up in the morning with another set of keys. But somehow both sets of keys were in the letter box. "Mary" climbed in through a window that was opened and was able to open the door from the inside! Sean the porter would remember this story and Pam from the eye clinic would remember it as well. |
1.27.35 - 1.30.11
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Description of Grattan Street Historic, homely, old grandeur, comfortable but uncomfortable, people are willing to work and find solutions. Nice building at one level but primitive at another level. Staff were always lovely and gelled. Started with 3 disciplines and that expanded. People were caring and good sense of comradery, work spirit and work ethic. Old photocopier that was there for 20-30 years which was always breaking down. They used to repair it themselves. When they asked for a new one they were told “it’s not pride is making ye ask for a new one!” |
1.30.11 - 1.31.23
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The Effect of the Mix of Disciplines Levelling effect. Nobody thought they were above anyone. Meet people from other disciples who could make exceptions or give advice- could tic-tac with one another. It was very personal. You weren’t going into someone else’s territory through some doors. They all met in the tea rom. |
1.31.23 - 1.33.08
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Car Park No car parking when "Mary" began. Staff and outsiders could park there. There was some kind of grandfather clause which allowed non-staff to park there. There used to be agro between the staff about it until they realised they were all in the same boat. Then the Educate Together School opened up and they were trying to park their cars there too. It’s hassle. Manic at times. Compares it to Mr Bean. Residents had parking. |
1.33.08 - 1.35.46
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Child Welfare Case Child welfare issue was brought in front of Judge Clifford. The mother had issues with alcohol and depression (those problems could affect children not getting vaccines as well). "Mary" remembers child or 4 or 5 years of age with bottle in their mouth and the bottle had whiskey in it. The fridge had one tomato in it. What should the staff wear to court- should they wear a hat? "Mary" was obliged to call to the house as a result of the case. And the child was eventually fostered. Wheelchairs and how tough it was for families and children growing up and needing bigger wheelchairs. Makes you think how lucky you are according to "Mary". |
1.35.46 - 1.37.39
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Curiosities and Quirks of Grattan Street Building Pigeons could be heard upstairs and the exterminator came. Plaster crumbling off the walls in Grattan Street. Paperwork and records. New letterheads and they were ordered to dump things while people downstairs were looking for things but there was money being wasted on paperwork being thrown out. |
1.37.39 - 1.41.50
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Floods 2010 and Transporting Vaccines Vaccines were stored in a special room with fridges wired directly to the mains, there was a fear the power would be lost. Water was at the door. Vaccines should be transferred to St Finbarr’s hospital. "Mary" and Sean the porter waited for a van to come to transport them. Eventually a fiesta arrived with 2 big men. They had 20-30 boxes like cool boxes. They made two trips in "Mary's" car to bring the vaccines across town through the floods. Describes herself as a determined person. Onetime borrowed waders from Meitheal Mara on Crosses Green and walked to Grattan Street in them. |
1.41.50 - 1.43.18
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Future of Grattan Street Building Historical connection with William Penn. Would like to see Grattan Street be a visitor centre or a place for weddings. Could have a little garden or courtyard. Current waiting room could be used. Catering could be provided there as well. |
1.43.18 - 1.46.50
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Hopes for St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre Hopes there is suitable parking. And tied up thinking from the planning department and developers. Encouraging people to go green and use bicycles etc. is fine but closing parking isn’t the place to start. There should be a place to make a cup of tea yourself. Good service for people who need it and people feel they can access it. Hope it isn’t too big, and there won’t be sections that you will never meet. A central meeting place is desirable where you could meet someone you don’t directly work with. |
1.46.50 - 1.48.40
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Making the Building Approachable Easy access. Does there need to be a service for mothers to get up the hill to the health centre? Will there be a place for children to play in? People should be given specific individual appointments not 20 appointments sent out for 2pm. Access to water like a watercooler. |
1.48.40 - 1.52.00
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Decision to Become a Nurse Would choose to be a nurse if she had the option over again. Has enjoyed life and had a good home life. Have had lots of opportunities. Could have become pigeonholed in one area. In one way "Mary" feels she has cut herself off from other aspects of nursing that she was interested in- clinical and theatre related work. Rewarding helping mothers and children with bed wetting issues. |
1.52.00- End |
Outro. Interview ends 1.52.13 |