S H: Was Tshombe’s army quite a well-disciplined army by the standards of the place?
G G: Tshombe’s army was mainly controlled by mercenaries and the mercenaries came from all over the world, mercenaries from New Zealand, Australia and South America. They were mercenaries proper, mad for a fight, to fight was their lifestyle, you know. We found that they were great, they were white number one. When I went into Luena and took it over, there were Congolese army just on the edge of town and there was a Belgian in charge of it. Jack -- can’t remember his name now, Jack something. But the first night that I was there, I went over into his camp, I rang him up first on the phone, on the army line and I said who I was and that we were here to do a job to stop killing and he said ‘that’s my policy too, in taking this place we killed only a half dozen in the place’. So I went over into his camp, sitting at the table and I said for a start off ‘I have no gun on me, no gun on me, have you?’, ‘I always carry a gun’ he says, you know. I said ‘I wouldn’t like to talk to you with the gun there’, so he took the gun and he said here you have it he says, so that changed that, it went pleasantly then, we had comfort there but if any bit of trouble started I went to him or he went to me.
S H: He was a Belgian was he?
G G: A Congolese born Belgian, he was a gentleman, only a gentleman. No bother getting on with him, as I said they cleared that area now of the local Congolese tribe and kept the killing down to the minimum anyway. That was the rule.