She discusses a variety of childhood games, a strong sense of community and friendly relationships with neighbours that have lasted a lifetime.
Phil recalls the dispensary, subsequently the Grattan Street Health Centre. Inside patients waited on benches for the doctor who tended to their area of the city. She also remembers the dispensary caretaker and pharmacist who lived in the dispensary building.
Her family’s daily routine is described including going to school, family meals and shopping. Her father was very strict about timekeeping, especially when Phil and her siblings were attending dances. This timekeeping came in useful at work where lateness resulted in docked pay, and where there was no sick pay.
Rationing in the 1940s is described, including the amounts of various foodstuffs allowed per person, and how it was circumvented by a neighbour who travelled to England.
Phil speaks of the diseases which we common when she grew up including tuberculosis. She also mentions her relatives who contracted diphtheria and measles and how they were treated. Refers to the vaccines for these diseases too.
Phil would have liked to stay working in Dunlop’s after her marriage as she enjoyed working with the people there but it was not an option. Nonetheless she enjoyed being with her own children at home and watching them grow, something she thinks happens less today.
Specific pawn shops and their locations are also recalled, how they functioned and their role in helping people make ends meet.
]]>Phil grew up in a tenement on Grattan Street and worked in O’Gorman’s Hat Factory and Dunlop’s before getting married and starting a family. She gives a very detailed description of the lanes, houses, shops and families on Grattan Street and the surrounding area of the Middle Parish.
She discusses a variety of childhood games, a strong sense of community and friendly relationships with neighbours that have lasted a lifetime.
Phil recalls the dispensary, subsequently the Grattan Street Health Centre. Inside patients waited on benches for the doctor who tended to their area of the city. She also remembers the dispensary caretaker and pharmacist who lived in the dispensary building.
Her family’s daily routine is described including going to school, family meals and shopping. Her father was very strict about timekeeping, especially when Phil and her siblings were attending dances. This timekeeping came in useful at work where lateness resulted in docked pay, and where there was no sick pay.
Rationing in the 1940s is described, including the amounts of various foodstuffs allowed per person, and how it was circumvented by a neighbour who travelled to England.
Phil speaks of the diseases which we common when she grew up including tuberculosis. She also mentions her relatives who contracted diphtheria and measles and how they were treated. Refers to the vaccines for these diseases too.
Phil would have liked to stay working in Dunlop’s after her marriage as she enjoyed working with the people there but it was not an option. Nonetheless she enjoyed being with her own children at home and watching them grow, something she thinks happens less today.
Specific pawn shops and their locations are also recalled, how they functioned and their role in helping people make ends meet.
0.00.00 - 0.00.22 |
Intro |
0.00.22 - 0.02.23 |
Tenement House Growing Up- Conditions and facilities Grew up in 44 Grattan Street, a tenement house. 4 or 5 families in the house. 6 children in her family, and 6 in another family. Another family with 2. 14 children in the one house. Very happy, great neighbours. Shop underneath their house: “shop on the lap” they called it. It sold sugar, milk, tea. The people who ran the shop lived in the shop as well. A 4-storey house including the attic. The people who lived in the attic had their kitchen on the ground floor. They had no sink, there was one toilet shared by the house and one tap in the yard. There was no electricity, or gas. They used oil lamps, primus store and a coal fire. Everyone lived like that so they “didn’t know any better”. |
0.02.23 - 0.06.27 |
Neighbours, Shops and Streets on & near Grattan Street Next door in 45 Grattan Street was Gamble the tinsmith. Similar type house arrangement. 46 Grattan Street was O’Callaghan’s Pub, even though the owners got married they had their whole family living above the pub. Phil doesn’t think that arrangement could be called a tenement because the house contained all one family. Then there was Peter’s Street, and the Mechanics’ Hall where the Community Centre is now. Fr Lynch from St Peter and Paul’s was good to the poor and he gave the children of the parish a party in the Mechanics’ Hall where children were given a suitable present, eg. a doll. The children looked forward to that each Christmas. Beyond that there was the quarry all the houses previously there were gone. After the quarry there were 3 or 4 tenement houses before you came to Henry Street. Same type of houses. There was also Bobby Lloyd’s shop on the corner sold pots, pans and kitchen utensils. Then Henry Street, and across the road from it was Henrietta’s Shop run by Johno (Johnno) where they got milk or bread. There was a lane behind that with a terrace of houses. There were two pubs beyond that one called Crosses and the other was Kellehers. Beyond that was Francis Street with Randy Hourigan’s shop on the corner. Beyond that was the corner of Bachelor’s Quay where the Doll’s House was with steps up to it which was also a tenement. Around the corner was formerly Dolly Perry’s Nursing Home but was turned into tenements when Phil knew it. Then there was Grenville Place where George Boole had lived, and that area had tenements. Then you returned to Henry Street. The old part of the Mercy Hospital was also there. Then there was Moore Street, Coach Street, and back to Grattan Street. All that area was the circle in which the children were allowed to play. |
0.06.27 - 0.07.52 |
Playing Children’s Games Played tops and whips. Cat and Dog. Piggy. Skylockers. Skylockers: Long strip of crepe paper with some sand in the centre and tied with string. And put string onto the end of it and threw it up in the air and hope that it would come down again and not get caught in the electric wires. Had to make their own enjoyment not like today where people can just press buttons. Chaineys & Playing Shop Used broken coloured glass (calls it mixed spice) to play shop on the footpath. Everyone was the same and everyone joined in. People pretended to be buying some of their shop items which were the pieces of broken glass. |
0.07.52 - 0.10.49 |
More Neighbours, Shops and Streets on & near Grattan Street Phil runs through the buildings and streets on Grattan Street from her house but going in the other direction to which she did before. No 43 Grattan Street’ The People’s Dairy which had eggs, milk, buttermilk, bread. Beyond that was a wholesale place called O’Connors and he had shoes for the shops he was wholesaler for. Above his place was a tenement. No 41 Grattan Street: The M Laundries (M Laundry) with a tenement above it with 3 families. No 40 Grattan Street was the fire station and everyone knew it, and the firemen because they were local. No 39: Barber shop with tenement above it. Next was another barber: Gerry Kane, with tenements above it. Next Roddis which sold pots, pans and tin things. Next was another shop. Then Broad Street and on the other side of it was another tinsmith, another Gamble. There were 3 Gamble brothers from Grattan Street, all of them tinsmiths. After that was a quarry and the houses were gone. Across the road was the old St Francis Church. Coming back down Grattan Street from there was the Third Order Hall. Then a laundry with more tenements. Then another tinsmith. Then Moll Hog’s Mrs Hourigan, a sweet shop at the corner of Broad Lane. Then the Rambler’s Inn, a pub. When that was vacated the Franciscans took it over for their accommodation and they took over the fire station when the new church was being built. Then there was a shoemaker called Rice with tenements above it. |
0.10.49 - 0.11.35 |
The Dispensary/ Grattan Street description of the building and who lived there And then “the Quakers” or the dispensary now Grattan Street Health Centre. The Morrissy family [see CFP_SR00760_Morrissy_2019;] of the chemist on one side of the arch on the dispensary facing onto Grattan Street, and the caretaker lived on the other side, her name was Nellie Long but she was known as Mrs Healy. Morrissy family had two girls and a boy and Phil “mixed with them”. Phil’s family had no garden so they played in the courtyard in the dispensary, which she describes as “a big airy place” there was lots of space compared with where Phil lived. |
0.11.35 - 0.14.28 |
More tenements after the dispensary, continuing tour of Grattan Street. Then “Moll Murph’s” (Moll Murphy) the potato lady. Bridgie on the corner selling sweets. Then Peter Church Lane, down which there were tenements, even though they were only small houses. The McCarthy’s were the only ones to have a house. The grandmother of Terry McCarthy lived down the lane. Terry had recently died at the time of the interview. He sang with the Dixies and sang with Michael Ring junior. Then there was the graveyard [St Peter’s Cemetery] which they knew as “The Proddy Woddys”, down the lane from that was a school and St Peter’s Church which is a centre now on the North Main Street. Phil says they “never mixed with them” ie Protestants. After that was Buckley’s builder’s yard over head was the Manning’s family with some families members married. After that another tenement with Murphy’s on the ground floor and Buckley’s on the first floor. Then more people above them. After that another tenement with the Healey’s lived. Then the quarry and then Coleman’s Lane which had houses and the Kenny’s lived in the first house. Tiny houses. Back on Grattan Street there was Looney’s Shop which sold everything: butter, eggs, bread etc. Then there were two more houses Frankie Scannell lived next to Looney’s Shop and worked in the Fire Station. After that another tenement with 3 or 4 families and then it came to Adelaide Street. |
0.14.28 - 0.17.41 |
Memories of the Dispensary “But the Quakers was nice, it was an airy place” big, huge high ceilings. The garden was inside a bit. [Phil refers to the Grattan Street Health Centre/ Dispensary building as ‘the Quakers’] The big door was never open, the side door was open, but there was a bell on the door and you could ring the bell. Inside were the doctors. The dispensary had about 8 doctors, 4 on either side, in a big hall with rooms off of it. Benches outside each doctor. No appointment. Every area had its own doctor. Phil had Dr Cagney. There was a Dr Moran for another area. You got medicine on the way out from the chemist, in a little hole in the wall. If you wanted cough bottle you brought your own bottle. It wouldn’t surprise Phil if you received tablets in a matchbox. You had to queue up to get that. You’d bring your bottle with you from home. Two or three benches outside each doctor’s door. It was like one big dance hall. There was no appointment but you knew what time he would be there at. And if you had to call the doctor he would come to you at home. Dr Cagney was abrupt but a very good doctor. Mark Cagney who was a presenter on TV3 [now Virgin Media One] was related to Dr Cagney. Phil says Dr Cagney was fabulous, but abrupt: “you’d be afraid like”, “you wouldn’t ask him questions” “the glasses would be down there” [Phil puts her glasses at to the end of her nose and looks over them doing an impression of Dr Cagney.] |
0.17.41 - 0.19.00 |
LDF (Local Defence Forces) Training & Uniform The LDF (Local Defence Forces) used to train in the dispensary building [during WW2]. They had a “browny” uniform and a hat with a slit in it. Something like the Slua Muirí. They may have trained in the courtyard because there was space in “the Quakers”. They had to dress up in their uniforms. Mr Burns (or Byrne’s) who lived in Phil’s tenement was in the LDF. |
0.19.00 - 0.19.26 |
Sense of Community, Safety and Togetherness Everyone went to school together and brought each other. There was great harmony, great neighbours and a very happy childhood. It was safe to walk the streets then in a way it is less so today Phil thinks. |
0.19.26 - 0.20.47 |
Daily Routine, School, Shopping, Streetscape Had breakfast and their mother would bring them to school St Maries of the Isle. She would walk with them as far as across the street from the courthouse [on Washington Street] and after that there were no roads to cross so they could walk on their own from that point. Their mother would meet them again at that point for lunchtime to take them home. There was much less traffic than today, mostly horses and carts. The horses and carts with milk churns came to the Nolan’s next door. You brought your jug to the dairy, Nolan’s Dairy and filled it up with milk. During school they went home at 12:30 for their dinner. And her mother would meet them and bring them back at the start and end of lunch. |
0.20.47 - 0.22.07 |
Father, Work, Parenting and Strict Timekeeping Phil’s dad was working in the Munster Arcade as a draper’s porter. Everything was within walking distance. He had to wake up at 6:45 to be in work for 8:30, he was a great timekeeper. When Phil and her siblings started to go to work her father said “one call now and one call only for the morning.” (meaning that he would call/wake them once only in the morning.) They had to go to Dunlop’s for 8am. Mother would bring the younger children to school. He would do the “first shift” for the working children. He was very strict, “you wouldn’t get around him. If he said no that was it.” A good father. She thinks it was possible to say no to one’s children back then but that is no longer the case today. Her mother was a bit softer. You dare not miss your call because you didn’t get paid when you were out of work. You didn’t get paid even if you were out sick. |
0.22.07 - 0.23.22 |
No Sick Pay, Simple Remedies for Sickness Recalls a young man feeling sick at work. Someone suggested he go home but he said he couldn’t because his mother would kill him! So if you were out of work you were out of pay, so there was very little sickness as a result! “If you were sick you got your Tanora and your aspro” [Aspirin/ Disprin/ Panadol] that was the medicine they had from the chemist. |
0.23.22 - 0.27.43 |
After School, Food, Dinner, Rationing After school they would eat or go out to play. They had dinner in the middle of the day, when they came home at lunchtime from school. Might have bread and jam later- if you got jam you would be delighted. They were never hungry. Dinner would be stew. Something in a pot big enough for the whole family 6 children and the two adults 8 altogether. They didn’t have chops or steak. They had tripe and drisheen. You ate it whether you liked it or not because there was nothing else. Ration books from 1939-1945 butter was made up in 12 ounces. 16 ounces in the pound. The rations allowed 12 ounces for 2 people, 6 ounces each for a week. Tea was rationed. Mr Burns went to England (where Phil thinks the rationing may not have been as severe?!) and he was able to bring back the Van Houten’s Cocoa and his wife Mrs Burns would always share it with Phil’s family whatever they had- it was like Christmas. Doesn’t think that eggs were rationed- if you had the money you could buy them. Cannot say whether bread or milk was rationed. Sugar, tea, butter were rationed. There were vouchers for shoes issued by the Health Board. And you would get the vouchers from the Dispensary, (“The Quakers”). Phil’s mother would know about the vouchers, Phil was only a child at the time so wouldn’t know much about it. She says that if they did get vouchers they wouldn’t tell anyone because they were “very grand” she says in a joking posh accent. She says that her mother was a proud woman and “it was bred into us I’d say.” She didn’t want people to know that she was getting the vouchers, even though everyone else was in the same situation. |
0.27.43 - 0.30.53 |
Visiting the Doctor. Siblings with Diphtheria. Relatives with Measles Phil says “you’d have to be nearly dying” you’d have to have the measles or diphtheria to go to the doctor. You wouldn’t go for a cough or a cold. You’d go if there was something wrong with your ear or your eyes. Otherwise you’d get “Tanora and an aspro” and then you got better. Went into the Dispensary for her ear- doesn’t remember going to the hospital. 3 of her siblings got diphtheria. Her brother Paddy had to be hospitalised. Dr Cagney was their doctor for that. Diphtheria and whooping cough were prevalent at the time. Then injections were made available. Remembers other people in her family getting the measles, light was kept away from their eyes to prevent them going blind although Phil says she doesn’t believe that that is what would cause the blindness. But they kept sufferers in a dark room. It was a 9 day disease- 3 days coming, you had it for 3 days and then 3 days recovering from it. Measles and diphtheria were contagious but she doesn’t know about whooping cough. There was a three-in-one vaccine for those three diseases. Phil’s mother made sure that they got it from the dispensary. |
0.30.53 - 0.32.44 |
Worklife: O’Gorman’s Hat Making and Dunlop’s Worked in Dunlop’s “in the packing” and worked in O’Gorman’s making the berets the hat factory in Shandon maybe in the old butter market. Phil thinks it was a shopping centre or souvenir shop after it was O’Gorman’s Hat Factory. They started up the “berett” (beret) part of the business. Phil describes the hat as a being similar to a “Tammy-Shanto” (Tam O’Shanter) a hat worn by Scottish men, except that it did not have the tassel on it. She worked there for three years and then went to Dunlop’s because there was more money there. In the hat factory they made/knitted berets and shrunk them to the different sizes: 8 and a half, 9 and a half and 10 and half. They were knitted on a machine and put into something to shrink the wool which tightened up. Phil was involved in the setting up of that process and ended up being a supervisor. She then went to Dunlops to do the packing. |
0.32.44 - 0.38.06 |
Working in Dunlop’s, Wellington Boots, Timekeeping Discipline, Stopping Work once Married, Reflections on Staying Home to raise Children. Phil was an “inspectress” (inspector) in the packing section in Dunlop’s. She inspected the wellington boots to see if there was any flaw in them which needed to be repaired. Then they were packed into the boxes and sent out. The men made all the wellingtons and they arrived as a finished product when Phil got to inspect them. There were no women making the wellingtons. The men made them “down the dips”. Phil was inspecting the boots at the top of the heel where there might be a gap which needed to be filled in with some soft rubber. And if it wasn’t done properly she would send the boot back again for repair. She was strict because if there was something wrong with the boot the shop would send it back in any case. And you would be in trouble if it was sent back from the shop as it indicated that you had not been doing your job. “You’d be just called over the rope!”, “and if you were out sick you didn’t get paid while you were out either”. You had to clock in 8am, clock out at lunchtime, clock in after lunch, clock out going home 5pm. If you were five minutes late you were docked pay for quarter of an hour. Phil says that this discipline is good, though it is less common today: “it’s bred into you. You just accept it. You wouldn’t do it today!” That’s where the time keeping her dad had instilled came in useful. Cycled to work down the Centre park Road four times a day because they would go home for lunch- lunch was one hour. She worked for 3 years in Dunlop’s and 3 years in O’Gorman’s. She was in Dunlop’s when she got married, and she had to leave they would not allow her to work now that she was married. She would have liked to have kept working because she was “with a very happy crowd- very nice people.” Phil reflects that it would not happen today, and that men who got married were able to continue working. At the time Phil says they didn’t know any better because it was the same for everyone. Phil thinks they were better off at home with their children. Many people today would want to be at home with their children but they can’t afford it with the cost of the mortgage and other expenses. Phil feels sorry for people today who can’t be with their children- “there’s no money would pay you for that. You fit ‘em out for the world. And hope for the best after that. I know the best of them like might go astray. But at the same time you do your best.” “I thought it was lovely being at home with your children- you saw ‘em grow up” Phil says nowadays people have children before they get married. |
0.38.06 - 0.39.08 |
Diseases: TB, Tuberculosis and Recuperation There was TB at the time though none of her family got it. When you were recovering you had to go to the country to Sarsfield’s Court which was the heart of the country that time. There was Heatherside in Doneraile in North Cork which was a place for recuperating from TB you were there for 6 or 9 months until the TB was gone. Phil says thank god none of her family got TB she jokes that they “must have been well looked after with our bread and butter and our eggs.” |
0.39.08 - 0.42.55 |
Houses, landlords, house ownership, shared water pumps, class distinctions, comparative wealth, protestants, graveyard, relations between Catholics and Protestants All McCarthy family lived in the one house in Peter Church Lane though they may not have owned it. Phil says she thought they were very well off but the people who got married were still living in the family home. There was a pump at the top of the lane as they had no taps in their houses, they had to fill their buckets at the top of the lane. Doesn’t think the McCarthys who lived in the first house in the lane had a tap either. Mr Cronin owned Phil’s family’s house. He was a railway man living in Glasheen. He came every week for his rent. You made sure you had your rent. He was a very nice man. You didn’t feel they were above you. People had their rent there was no ifs and buts. He worked in the railway he had a black uniform and the railway badge. He was only an ordinary worker but he owned 44 Grattan Street. Phil has met some of his family since and says they were all ordinary people- you didn’t feel that they were above you or below you even though they might have a little bit more than you- you never felt that. The have and the have nots. Even mixed with the Nolans of the People’s Dairy. Mixed with everyone except the Protestants (‘the Proddy Woddys’). Phil thinks that there was a caretaker for St Peter’s church living down the lane. One of the bars in the railings of St Peter’s (Protestant) graveyard was bent so they were able to get in there as children “you’d be hauled over the ropes” if they were caught. They weren’t allowed in there by the Protestants but also their parents did not wasn’t them in there. “Times were different. Sure we think nothing of Protestants now.” “The Catholics and the Protestants were miles apart long go.” |
0.42.55 - 0.44.38 |
Family of the Pharmacist that lived in the Dispensary Mr Morrissy was the pharmacist that lived in the dispensary he made up the prescriptions. There was a hatch in the wall where people queued to hand in their prescription and wait for the medicine to be handed out. Never called anyone by their Christian name only as Mr, Mrs or Miss. The owners of Leaders shop on the North Main Street were known as Mr & Mrs and their daughters as Miss. Phil has been to visit one of the daughters recently and she still calls her Miss Leader. Went there for communion and confirmation clothes. Everyone got to know each other and grow up together. Miss Leader knows Phil’s family as “the Walls” she doesn’t know them by their married name. |
0.44.38- 0.48.57 |
Pawns and Pawn Shops Jones Pawn Shop, Kiely’s on Liberty Street where St Anthony’s Stores is now which is opposite St Francis. There was also a St Francis’ Stores on the corner of Sheares Street near the corner of the Courthouse which is a barber shop now. Jones Pawn shop on the North Gate Bridge, and Kiely’s may have had another shop on the North Main Street. Put in your clothes on a Monday and took them out on the Saturday. That gave you money for the week but you had to pay then on Saturday when you got the clothes out of the pawn. “They were hard times but ‘tis what everyone did.” Imagines her family used the pawn but she wasn’t told about it. You had to be back for a certain time to collect the items pawned and if you weren’t they kept the item. And that is how they had the old gold to sell. You could put something in for a month but you had to return on time to redeem it. The pawn shops “had lovely stuff” they were like antique shops they had such beautiful things in them. Lovely gold watches, rings. “You could admire them in the window but you couldn’t go in and buy them because we didn’t have the money.” They wouldn’t take shoddy stuff from you, they wouldn’t give you money for them. You could put an item in for 6 months. Everyone did it, it was nothing to be ashamed of it. As times got better the pawn shops faded out. The pawns definitely made money, Phil believes they were always very wealthy. Phil jokes that the pawn owners may have lived in Montenotte but she doesn’t know where they lived. People that had money were buying things from the pawns. Thick rings. |
0.48.57- 0.50.38 |
A Treat Sweets. On a Sunday her dad would give them a shilling between 6 children so 2 pence each after their dinner. But they didn’t dare ask for it. Once their dinner was finished on a Sunday the children were wondering “would he ever pay us?!”. He chose when it was time to pay them. There was 12 pennies in the shilling. They got a lot for their penny- ten sweets for a penny in a shop. They looked forward to it. Types of sweets: Bulls eyes, clove rock, peggy’s leg, black jacks. You could get a half a penny’s worth of sweets if you liked. There were also farthings- a quarter of a penny. |
0.50.38 - 0.53.24 |
What Happened to the Dispensary? The dispensary faded out, as people set up their own medical practices. The Health Board took it over, the doctors faded out and set up own places. Phil’s husband had to go to a doctor and the first visit was €200, though the price was less for subsequent visits. Phil often heard of €100 or €150 for a visit but thought that €200 was too much. Phil said that you didn’t have to pay going to the doctor or to the dispensary, but evens till they didn’t go unless it was necessary. The dispensary was a busy place. Doesn’t know where people who had money went to the doctor because they didn’t know anyone who had money. Lovely looking place inside, it was well done-up. It was “a big hall and you’d have rooms off of it four on that side and four on that side and you had two benches outside each door. You just sat on the bench then and took your turn, and hoped for the best.” LDF trained there certain nights a week and they had to wear uniform. |
0.53.24 - 0.54.11 |
Meets old neighbours from Grattan Street to this day, eg Byrnes, Mr Byrne was in the LDF, there were 6 in that family who live in the same house as hers. Only 2 of the Byrne’s left, 3 in Phil’s family. Still meet and socialise to talk about old times and the fun they had. They made their own fun. |
0.54.11 - 0.56.52 |
Protestant Graveyard at the back of St Peter’s They went in through the bars. “There were all tombs, like tables: you could have a meal on one of them. They were fabulous!” “There were no small headstones.” “There were headstones, but nothing poor about them” Fr Walsh from St Peter and Paul’s had the Don Bosco troupe/troop there to do plays for the stage like Father Matthew Hall. There was a place where the school was, “the Protestants were kinda fading out” and Fr Walsh set up the Don Bosco troupe and they had instruments. The Lynches were there: Pat Lynch, and Stevie. They had a hall beside the graveyard. They played instruments, sang songs and practiced there. They performed in small places in Cork, and they did Christmas shows down the lane. Fr Lynch used to do the parties for the poor children at Christmas. The parties were in the Mechanic’s Hall (now The Middle Parish Community Centre) upstairs where there was a stage. |
0.56.52 - 0.58.54 |
Mass, Religion, Dances, Strict Timekeeping They went to mass in St Francis but they were baptised in St Peter and Paul’s as it was their parish church. All her brothers were altar boys in St Peter and Pauls, and the girls were in the choir in St Francis. Her mother had the children involved in everything they were never left “go wild”. They were also in the Girl Guides or the Boy Scouts. She kept tabs on them. When they went to dances in St Francis Hall they were given five minutes to come home from the céilí on Saturday night from 8-11pm. If you went to the Arc (the Arcadia), facing the railway station it’s now apartments where the dance was 8-11 they were allowed half an hour to walk home. It was safe to walk home at that time, there would be no cars or buses after 11pm. If you weren’t there on time her mother would start walking towards them “I often met her!” says Phil. “What kept you?” her mother asked in case she had “been with the fellas”. That was the discipline that they had which they took with them and tried to instil in their own children “and do the best you can” doesn’t think it is easy to do that today. |
0.58.54 - 0.59.14 |
Christmas Party Phil doesn’t think that there was a Christmas party in the dispensary, only one in the Mechanic’s Hall [her sister Mary Mulcahy had mentioned a party in the dispensary, see CFP_SR00729_Mulcahy_2019]. |
0.59.14 - 1.02.08 |
Swimming: Outdoor Baths- Storage, Separate Days for Men and Women. Kingsley Hotel Flood They went swimming in the outdoor baths, they were not allowed in the Eglinton Baths because it was stagnant water. But they were allowed to cycle or walk up to the outdoor baths. They brought the togs and towel under their arm, and often had a picnic up there were a flask and sandwiches. Phil says she remembers the summers being lovely but that they are probably the same as they are now! Monday, Wednesday and Friday the baths were open for women, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday was for the men. There were boxes all around the pool where you togged off. Your clothes could be stolen and you’d have to walk home in your togs. That never happened to Phil as they always had someone minding the box, or they swam in front of the box. They built a hotel [the Kinglsey] over those baths, and her husband is mad about that because they could have made a 50 metre pool there. At the time it was 50 metres one way and 50 yards in the other direction. Thinks the only 50 metre pools are in Limerick and the Aquatic Centre in Dublin. There was a flood in the Kingsley Hotel, which didn’t surprise Phil because that was where the swimming pool was with water from the Lee. |
1.02.08 - 1.05.02 |
Meeting her Husband. Anniversary. She met her husband in O’Gorman’s hat factory- but she “wasn’t going with him” then. Two or three years later she met him in the dances and “he used to dance me” and then they “became a couple and that was it. The rest is history.” They celebrated their sixtieth wedding anniversary on the previous Sunday. They didn’t do anything for the anniversary as Phil didn’t feel ready for it due to a number of family bereavements. But she had a small celebration at home. Later on she will have a bigger celebration, there will be plenty of time for that she thinks. “60 years with the one man” Phil says “I’m doing a line for 66 years!” [‘doing a line’ is Cork slang for dating someone.] Phil says that she doesn’t remember when there were Quakers there but it was always known as “the Quakers”. “but what kind the Quakers were now I have no idea.” [Interview Ends] |
Describes attending school in cold substandard buildings. Preferred self-directed learning to rote memorizing. Her love of nature and science was evident early and evolved into her passion to follow medicine as a vocation and career, despite the opposition of her parents and GP who feared it would be a hard life especially for a woman.
Reflects on the deficiencies of medical training in University College Cork, especially the deliberate use of fear and humiliation in teaching which has left a negative mark on her and other colleagues. Suggests that the need to imprint so much information through humiliation is no longer necessary due to improvements in technology.
Outlines her career path through various roles, experiences and responsibilities including working in Accident and Emergency and time in New Zealand.
Discusses her impressions of Grattan Street Medical Centre both as a physical building with leaks and in disrepair and as a unique workplace with a community of multiple disciplines which function well together.
Speaks about her current work as an Area Medical Officer, the kind of patients she sees and typical issues that arise including developmental checks on babies and following up with parents.
Reflects on attitudes towards medicine and the HSE especially among parents, and how as a doctor she has to deal with this in order to achieve best outcomes for child patients.
Outlines the problems with Grattan Street staff car parking and the issues it cause.
Talks about the outlines of the history she has gleaned about Grattan Street Medical Centre Building as a Quaker Meeting House and as a public dispensary.
Speaks of the marriage registry office which is part of the Grattan Street building, where weddings happen during her work day creating a strange but joyous contrast.
Discusses the amount of paperwork and documentation required for all the work in Grattan Street that remains from past decades which fascinates her.
Reflects on her hopes and the possible futures for the Grattan Street Medical Centre building, and the fate of services that will move to St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre in Gurranabraher. Compares the two locations and emphasizes the importance of a good workplace culture within a building. Talks about possible patient attitudes to the new building. Hopes it will have a communal staff canteen.
Outlines the importance of administration staff in contributing to positive experiences for patients and facilitating the efficient work clinical staff.
Reflects on the difficulties of a medical career including 90 hour weeks, missing out on parties and travelling, and having to tell mothers that their babies have died.
]]>Edith grew up in Youghal where she recalls playing childhood games including Red Rover, chainey, a makeshift tennis and sandcastles on the beach.
Describes attending school in cold substandard buildings. Preferred self-directed learning to rote memorizing. Her love of nature and science was evident early and evolved into her passion to follow medicine as a vocation and career, despite the opposition of her parents and GP who feared it would be a hard life especially for a woman.
Reflects on the deficiencies of medical training in University College Cork, especially the deliberate use of fear and humiliation in teaching which has left a negative mark on her and other colleagues. Suggests that the need to imprint so much information through humiliation is no longer necessary due to improvements in technology.
Outlines her career path through various roles, experiences and responsibilities including working in Accident and Emergency and time in New Zealand.
Discusses her impressions of Grattan Street Medical Centre both as a physical building with leaks and in disrepair and as a unique workplace with a community of multiple disciplines which function well together.
Speaks about her current work as an Area Medical Officer, the kind of patients she sees and typical issues that arise including developmental checks on babies and following up with parents.
Reflects on attitudes towards medicine and the HSE especially among parents, and how as a doctor she has to deal with this in order to achieve best outcomes for child patients.
Outlines the problems with Grattan Street staff car parking and the issues it cause.
Talks about the outlines of the history she has gleaned about Grattan Street Medical Centre Building as a Quaker Meeting House and as a public dispensary.
Speaks of the marriage registry office which is part of the Grattan Street building, where weddings happen during her work day creating a strange but joyous contrast.
Discusses the amount of paperwork and documentation required for all the work in Grattan Street that remains from past decades which fascinates her.
Reflects on her hopes and the possible futures for the Grattan Street Medical Centre building, and the fate of services that will move to St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre in Gurranabraher. Compares the two locations and emphasizes the importance of a good workplace culture within a building. Talks about possible patient attitudes to the new building. Hopes it will have a communal staff canteen.
Outlines the importance of administration staff in contributing to positive experiences for patients and facilitating the efficient work clinical staff.
Reflects on the difficulties of a medical career including 90 hour weeks, missing out on parties and travelling, and having to tell mothers that their babies have died.
0.00.00 - 0.00.23 |
Intro |
0.00.23- 0.02.04 |
Games Played as Child in Youghal Grew up in Youghal. Children’s games: chasing games, Red Rover, What Time is it Mr Wolf?, Chainy. Elastics game: Long piece of elastic tied into a loop with a person at each end with complex rules about how to jump in and out and over and back. Played tennis: in the tennis club and also “over the gate”. It was the era of John McEnroe, Martina Navratilova and Bjorn Borg. Played a form of football. Made mud pies. |
0.02.04- 0.02.26 |
Describes game Chainy or Chainey in more detail Still played in her child’s school. One person catches another and they must keep holding hands and keep catching people until they are all holding hands in a long chain. |
0.02.26- 0.03.06 |
Describes Red Rover or Bulldog She didn’t like Red Rover. Stand in chain and chant “Red Rover, Red Rover, we call over X” Begins with 2 children holding hands and the person who is called over must try to run through their hands and break the link, which Edith says always hurt and as she was “quite small” she was usually the weak link. If someone didn’t break the link they had to join that chain. |
0.03.06- 0.03.47 |
Games on The beach Not much time in the water/sea because it was too cold. Made sandcastles, sand tunnels, forts, dams to keep the sea out or bring the sea in. These plans never worked and Edith says “you learned about futility as a smallie”. |
0.03.47- 0.04.38 |
Playing Without Adult Supervision Spent a lot of time quite bored in fields or on bikes. “We’d just head off on the bikes for the day: I don’t really know where we went or why we went.” Only television was RTE 1 and RTE 2- “Poverty 1 and Poverty 2” there was nothing to watch. Call to friend and come back when felt like it. No phones. Improvised ways out of problems. Reasonable amount of time without adult supervision. But there were always watchful adult eyes: “if you were doing something you shouldn’t be doing your parents would usually hear about it.” |
0.04.38- 0.05.00 |
Where not allowed to play Places not allowed to be on bikes when little: out the front on the main road where cars were quite fast. Not supposed to go on the back fields where there was a bull. (Suggestion in her response is that they may have not always obeyed!) |
0.05.00 - 0.05.16 |
Home Mum, dad and sister 3 years older. Mum was primary school principal. Dad worked Monday-Friday 9-5. |
0.05.16- 0.06.51 |
Primary School Remembers being cold and very bored. Went to school in “Park” on a crossroads on the top of a hill in the middle of nowhere. Where her mum was teacher. 2 teacher outside toilets and no central heating when she started school. There was a stove to heat the classroom very like the school in Muckross Farms. Two “boot rooms” or cloakrooms. Inside toilets eventually installed. Very few students. |
0.06.51- 0.09.50 |
Secondary School Went to Loreto in Youghal it was also very cold. Some years were in prefabs. The school was near the lighthouse. When you were bored you could look out to the sea from an old redbrick house which was left to the nuns. It was very exposed to the weather- wind, rain and salt spray from the sea-wall. Enjoyed maths and science. Lots of repetition in the schoolwork. Would prefer self-directed learning not just learning by rote. For people with other kinds of intelligence it wasted their potential and opportunity. Heuristic learning- learning through play and experience. She learned how to sew a button, balance a cheque book and pay a bill. Skills for living in the world: how to cook how to clean how to look after your physical health, mental health should be taught. |
0.09.50- 0.11.19 |
Love of Nature and Science leading to Medicine. Was always interested in nature and biological sciences: “mad about nature”. When 13 or 14 a friend brought a roadkill mink to science class to dissect it. The teacher was a bit squeamish, but Edith said she would do it “no bother”. Remembers “pure awe” at how remarkably perfect the insides were, “how it all fitted, and it all worked”. Had dissected earthworms before. Drifted then to wanting to do medicine. Set her heard on it. |
0.11.19- 0.14.09 |
Medicine as a Vocation, the Determination Required Mom and dad really didn’t want her to do medicine at all. They called in the local GP to tell her not to do it- which had the opposite effect. She applied for medicine at 16 when she sat her leaving cert for the first time and had to repeat it because she didn’t get enough points. In some ways in hindsight her parents were probably right. It is a hard life and requires working very hard for a very long time. Edith was a premature baby and was always physically small and thin and her parents were concerned. Her colleague with an Italian grandmother described the need to do medicine as being like a holy fire [Note: “sacro fuoco” maybe?] similar to a vocation but perhaps not spiritual. If you have this fire nothing else will do. She also applied for computer science. If she hadn’t done medicine in college, she thinks she would have gone back to do it later in life. Local GP told her it’s a very hard life for a woman- which is not the thing to say to a 15-year-old. Thinks the nuns that taught her was feminist in their way as they were ambitious for their students. The GP said that you don’t want to do nightshifts when pregnant or be on call when you have small babies. The cards are very much stacked against you to make it in medicine as a consultant as a woman. Edith says he was right but that you don’t want to hear that at 15. |
0.14.09- 0.15.17 |
Nuns’ Ambition for the girls Only one in school to do medicine. Many of the students did honours maths. There was competition between the boys’ school and the girls’ school. They’ve now combined. Some schools didn’t offer honours maths or honours science subjects to leaving cert for girls. |
0.15.17- 0.18.40 |
Medical Training in UCC University College Cork Didn’t love medicine in UCC. Didn’t find the training easy- a culture of throwing people in to it. Students told that most of them would become GPs and that medical students learn themselves they don’t need to be taught. Lectures often had little relevance to what was in the book. Clinical training involved bullying, teaching by fear, humiliation. Consultant was seen as god. Lots of waiting around for people who didn’t turn up. Mental fallout for some of the people in her class. And the system may not have made them better doctors. Saw how students were taught differently overseas. Students were getting sick in the morning with nerves before clinics. Had friends who weren’t doing medicine. Met her now husband at 19. Always had something outside of medicine to stay grounded. Always liked the clinical work and the patients. |
0.18.40 - 0.23.40 |
Clinical Training Book learning- through lectures. Clinical placements for students with a particular service for a time follow their team and learn how to take a patient history and examine a patient. Initially must ask about everything when taking patient histories until you know what to look for. Lived in nurses’ home in Limerick for six weeks. Consultant would take you to see an interesting patient to ask you questions. Some were fine but some were set up so that you would definitely fail so that you know that you know nothing and be humiliated. It was done to everybody no one was singled out. Describes how the consultant asked students questions. Thinks that the experience has left a mark on her and otherwise confident colleagues as they sometimes have difficulty answering questions in group settings, or when in a particular tone. Describes it as like being triggered. Edith didn’t go to one consultant’s clinics because she found she wasn’t learning from him. No one would notice if she wasn’t there. Jokes that she hopes UCC doesn’t as they’ll take away her degree! |
0.23.40- 0.25.25 |
Why this teaching system was used in UCC Consultants wanted to imprint the exceptions and rare cases on their minds so they wouldn’t forget. It was basically the Socratic method. They were once told that they weren’t good enough to be medical students. Then not good enough to be the vets in Ballsbridge and lastly that they weren’t good enough to be the medical correspondent in the Irish Times! Sounds funny now but at the time they were devastated. But Edith still remembers the name of the particular type of amputation due to this scene. This system of teaching & learning was designed when people need to remember a lot of information. Now things have changed as “all the information is there” now you need to learn how to use it. An interesting patient is one which had something which was rare. Edith describes it as something with four legs, a tail and neighs but is a zebra not a horse. |
0.26.05- 0.30.07 |
Career Path for medical students SHO- senior house officer. After qualifying you become an intern. After a first year as an intern you can become an SHO. Then become a Registrar, then a Senior Registrar, Specialist Registrar and eventually a Consultant. SHO could be 2-4 years long. SHOs are the general grunts they do all the hard work. Edith did 6 months surgery in Mercy Hospital, 6 months of medicine in the South Infirmary Hospital and really enjoyed them. Every thirds week in the Mercy they worked 110 hours. In hindsight they had “ridiculous levels of responsibility”. Then did the 2 year specialist paediatric training scheme in Dublin. Then did paediatrics in New Zealand, then accident and emergency. Did GP training in New Zealand. Returned to Ireland when her eldest daughter was 1. Worked as GP in Cork. After her twins were born Edith went back to work when they were 8 months old. She worked for Swiftcare for 5 years. Husband stayed at home to mind children and was going to go back to work. She was clinical lead with Swiftcare which included corporate, management and clinical. Looking to reduce her hours and her friend asked if she would be interested in a job in Grattan Street and she started March 2013. |
0.30.07- 0.33.44 |
Enjoyed Accident and Emergency work in New Zealand Edith says A&E in New Zealand is fabulous. It was real doctoring. The immediacy of it. See lots of different things. Got her clinical confidence- could deal with anything. Security removed anyone who was abusive. There was always enough resources, staff, beds. People weren’t burnt out in the way they are in Ireland. Requires being on call on nights. Did A&E in the Hutt outside wealthy Wellington CBD Central Business District and Porirua. Deprived areas around the Hutt so there were cases of self-harm, domestic abuse and patients from lower-socioeconomic areas. Gravitated towards those areas, similar in her time in Temple Street. In Cork Edith works mainly in the Northside. The social supports either weren’t there or didn’t work in her experience in Ireland. Children unable to access basic dental care was unheard of in New Zealand where they have better primacy care. |
0.33.44- 0.36.36 |
Early Memory & description of Grattan Street Medical Centre A woman working downstairs said it was like coming to Colditz [German WW2 Prisoner of War Camp]. Arrived with a friend. Everyone was so nice. An old Quaker Meeting House. In busy urban areas between a school, busy road, houses, church complex. Hodgepodge! Kind of Victorian road frontage. Older building at the back made of cut stone. Higgledy-piggledy. Different types of signage. There’s a bit of a railing and bit of a ramp. Building kept together with duct tape and bits of binder twine. It’s a bit sad looking. But it has been here a long time and will be here in the future. A building that’s seen use and is embedded in the community. In keeping with Middle Parish. |
0.36.36- 0.39.02 |
Services in Grattan Street Medical Centre Health centre which provides community-based services for people based in Middle Parish, inner-city area, eye clinic provides community eye services for all of the North Lee HSE area- from Blarney to Carrigtwohill. Community podiatry clinic. Community medical doctors: child development clinics and vaccination services for North Lee. Public Health Nurse (PHN) services based in Grattan Street. Home Care Services Unit. Community dental services has moved out. Girls at front desk do European Health Visit Card and stamp forms- eye clinic etc. Community Welfare Officer used to be there as well but they have moved. Vaccination services. Similar but disparate services. Serve different populations within the community. Community based services are geographically decided rather than by your condition. |
0.39.02- 0.40.40 |
Engagement with a Community Based Service Hopes that services run in the community for the community get a better engagement rather than traveling to a tertiary centre. More likely to engage with a PHN who you may have been to before than an anonymous person in an anonymous clinic that changes each time you go. Community knowledge of Grattan Street in a way that there isn’t for CUH. Grattan Street doesn’t deal with life and death so expectations are different to a hospital. Physically less distance for people to travel in the community. |
0.40.40- 0.43.44 |
Working in Grattan Street Communal Building Uses Grattan Street for office-based work. Some clinics in Grattan Street but the demographics have changed and there are fewer babies and young children in the area. Primarily paper-pushing and renewing the connections that you have with the people who work in Grattan Street. Clinics in South Doc so it’s possible for Edith not to meet any other healthcare professionals only patients so Grattan Street is a social hub and important part of the job where information is transmitted in a more informal way not through writing. Importance of feedback. And Grattan Street facilitates that. Communal building. Can see people walking past and talk to them if you leave your office door open. Facilitates those networks. You will know who is in the building and check in with Celine in the office to see who else is there and what is happening. AMO- Area Medical Officer now Community Medical Doctors. |
0.43.44- 0.51.20 |
Clinics and Patients in Grattan Street Afternoon clinic downstairs in room 4 in Grattan Street. 6-10 patients in an afternoon clinic from 2:30-4pm. Anything referred in by the PHN or the assessment of needs- the disability services, and early intervention- concern with an ongoing developmental delay in child in the community. Checks for vision, head checks, hip checks. Partly routine partly not routine. Patients tend to be very early or very late. People will turn up 30 minutes early or 15-20 minutes late. Other places people turn up on time or a few minutes late. But with small babies delays happen for parents. Staff has high tolerance for that. Sometimes a mum will come with other children as well, or with a granny or granny will come with the children or there will be a friend or helper there too. Majority of patients come from PHNs. Form from PHN saying who their GP is and why they’re being referred. Always checks their names especially as more and more patients don’t have a typical Irish name. Some of them change mobile numbers often so checking those details is important. Change of address is also a problem. Some come from Edel House a women’s homeless service. Takes a background history or birth history- where they were born, birth weight, past medical history. Discuss risk factors, examine patients and how to proceed and be very clear with follow up instructions with the parents. We only remember 30% of what we are told. Usually don’t see patients again- not a follow up, ongoing service, don’t provide therapeutic intervention. “Good at normal”- this is within the range of what we expect. Much of medicine is about the abnormal. Most usual medical issues she deals with: Vision checks for squint, hip checks- concern about deformation, head checks. Developmental assessment- concern about autism or global developmental delay or intellectual disability. Preschools are good at spotting developmental concerns and referring them. |
0.51.20- 0.54.53 |
Attitudes of Parents towards Health & Medicine and HSE Parents want the best for children and are happy to do the best what it takes. Rare case where parent is in denial about their child’s situation- Edith doesn’t hassle them so as not to sour therapeutic relations down the line. Most people engage unlike adult medicine. Some parents may have complicated or chaotic lives and social workers may need to get involved. Advocate for the child’s best interests and is represented in the family. Even parents with most complicated lives can address the child’s needs. HSE is different. Expectation of a bad service especially where Grattan Street looks a bit rough and ready, but surprised that they get a good service and Edith is pleasant and doesn’t rush them out. Difficult conversations about telling parents of long waiting lists. Edith cannot speed up assessments. |
0.54.53- 0.58.43 |
Most Unusual Cases come across Doesn’t like unusual. Should not be seeing anything acute or sinister. A child staring into space could have autism sometimes it could be an absence seizure which needs a difficult treatment. Genetic abnormality which causes a developmental delay. Acute cases usually picked up by the paediatricians. Be careful about not scaring parents. Sometimes parents are reluctant to go to hospital. Acute cases are the ones that you think about when you go home and are not at work. Acute is something which cannot wait. Less concerned about something which is stable and isn’t going to change eg if someone is fragile X a chromosomal condition which causes developmental delay, commonest cause of intellectual disability- if a patient has this it is not going to go away. But if there’s a child you think has a brain tumour which has given them an acute squint which has come on over 24 hours out of nowhere then you don’t want to wait. |
0.58.43- 1.01.44 |
Dealing with Parents Reluctant to go to Hospital Most parents want what’s best for child. Sometimes parents can sometimes be preparing to fight to get what they think their child needs, and be adversarial. Can spend much of consultation time to get the parent onside. Have to be careful to not reinforce the idea that the parent thinks they need to push harder to get what they want. Explains that she wouldn’t do for someone else’s child what she wouldn’t do for any of her own. That can be a powerful message for a parent. If that doesn’t convince them then she has to start thinking about social workers: is there child abuse, is the parent drunk or stoned. |
1.01.44- 1.02.30 |
Why People may be reluctant to go to Hospital Down to resources: can’t afford taxi, no one to mind children, don’t want to go to CUH Cork University Hospital. Often single mums, mums without social supports, or trying to work and mind children. Physical upheaval is difficult. Logistically and economically difficult for parents. Example from Gurranabraher. |
1.02.30- 1.04.58 |
What it is like to work in Grattan Street Unique. Communal building, sense of community. Even people that you don’t deal with clinically you get to know which is important. Buildings are about the people in them not just the services they provide. Physicality of the building- open gallery- you can see & hear who is there. Would prefer it if was a warner building. Survivor bonding over the deficiencies of the building. Problems with parking. People say they work in Grattan Street not in podiatry. |
1.04.58- 1.06.24 |
Parking Small area for parking, not big enough for all the people who work there. Have to move your car to let people out. Didn’t park in the car park when working a half-day because wouldn’t be able to get out. School and houses also use the parking area and they can get cross if they are blocked. |
1.06.24- 1.09.12 |
Past of the Building Quaker meeting house. Building is set up like a church- entrance with arch and sweeping staircases, ceiling roses, curved picture rails. Awareness of the thickness of the walls and windows, not the typical shape for an office building or healthcare centre. Stone plaques outside in the parking area which commemorate the building. Was a dispensary from the 1940s one of the school nurses on the list of interviewees has a friend whose father was the dispenser or pharmacist there. Some of the came to Grattan Street as children for speech and language therapy. No anecdotes about when the lights went out or when it flooded. Cultural understanding of dispensary is that it was a publicly funded pharmacy but that they were fairly grim places for the ordinary not the great and the good. Lots of rooms and big building. |
1.09.12- 1.11.37 |
Weddings in the Registry in Grattan Street Other part of the building is the registry office at the front where people get married. Weddings out the front when coming to work. Children crying and elderly people. Swathe of human life. Unusual to see weddings in the urban work environment which makes everyone smile. And she will miss that when they move. Thinks other employees will have stories and anecdotes. |
1.11.37- 1.15.00 |
Paper & Documents in Grattan Street No one would believe how much paper is in the building. No one removes paper because no one knows who it belongs to. Paper based system for records. Accretions of paper. Shared office space where very little is thrown away. Extraordinary volume of paper created and used. Referrals done on duplicate books with carbon copy. Referral books for services which no longer exist- going back as far as the 1970. Old computers unused. Random boxes of leaflets. |
1.15.00- 1.18.10 |
Words to Describe Grattan Street and its future Community. Resilience. Service. If it was a dog it would be a Labrador, and old smelly one with bad teeth that farts a lot! A pet that everyone loves. Would hate to see the building closed and empty. Sense of spirit in the building. Understands that Quakers signed over the building with the view that it would be used for health services to the community. There’s no disabled access or toilets at present. Buckets in kitchen when it rains. Won’t do well if it is left empty and cold. Community based health resource rather than offices and admin. |
1.18.10- 1.22.13 |
Future of Services moving from Grattan Street Services moving to St Mary’s health campus. Podiatry moving to St Mary’s. PHN have moved already. Vaccination will move to St Mary’s. Eye clinic will move to St Finbarr’s. Dental has gone to Finbarr’s. Unsure about European Health Cards. Home Care may stay here. Marriages will stay. They have had little information about the services. Understands the complexity of project managing the move. Eye clinic will be physically remote from St. Mary’s. Lose sense of networks even though you can still pick up the phone. Lose contacts and networks and personally knowing people in other services. Personal knowledge of how other people work. It gives you more information about how to triage or perceive a referral when you know the people. Anything that interferes with getting information relevant to the patient and decision-making will make her job slightly harder. |
1.22.13- 1.25.19 |
Sense of Patients’ Perspectives Some clinic space may have to be kept in Grattan Street because of the most vulnerable patients in the area eg. from Edel House and newly arrived immigrants, and people who have moved out of direct provision. Families where English might not be first language and from backgrounds where there might be poor healthcare. Travel may be difficult for these patients, especially going “up the hill” to St Mary’s. Will advocate strongly to keep a clinic in Grattan Street- it’s easier to move 1 doctor to see 30 patients than vice versa, and do not need any specialised equipment. Grattan Street is a disaster for people with cars- St Mary’s is much better it has parking, space and coffee shops. Ensure that better services elsewhere don’t leave more vulnerable patients behind. |
1.25.19- 1.27.47 |
Comparison between Grattan Street and St. Mary’s St Mary’s will have: heating, lifts disabled toilets, large waiting areas, easy access. [Edith’s phone vibrates during this section] In Grattan Street if you are on crutches you can’t come to work. St Mary’s will fix these problems. Change is hard. [Edith’s phone vibrates during this section] With a new start if gives the staff a chance to effect the culture of the new building. Everyone in the building making small inputs. Christmas lunch potluck and baby showers in Grattan Street for which there is no policy or permission required people organised it themselves- autonomy and power. |
1.27.47- 1.31.31 |
Culture of the New Building & Importance of Admin People need to feel they have some autonomy of their workplace eg. the signs in Grattan Street which people put up without needing permission. Every clerical and admin staff can hear the patients who come into Grattan Street so they understand that they are not a piece of paper or a number. Further away people are from the person they provide the worse the service provision. Service lives and dies on its administrative staff. When admin staff goes on holidays the clinical staff are bereft! Importance of admin staff even though their role can be minimised. But in Grattan Street there is a good balance. St Mary’s may be isolated in separate rooms. |
1.31.31- 1.33.02 |
What Makes Good Admin Support? Patience. Being able to spin so many plates. First point of contact for people who use the service. People who understand that it’s really important. Although HSE gets a bad reputation every admin staff has been helpful and gone above and beyond. Celine in Grattan Street is very patient. |
1.33.02- 1.35.14 |
Patient Expectations of St Mary’s Big scary, bewildering building. Hope that people will be made to feel welcome. Scale of foyer area is colossal and may be overwhelming. Community should have some autonomy over the building in the same way the staff should. Comfortable seats and accessible baby changing facilities may be enough to make people feel welcome. |
1.35.14-1.38.08 |
Centralised Canteen Would like to see centralised canteen for the staff with access to healthy food. Small things become important. Easy to walk around and access healthy food. Sense that the community can use the space- not much green space on the northside. Chance to look at a different model of healthcare. Moaning is easy and can create a toxic culture if things never change. Small kitchen room on St Mary’s health campus. St Finbarr’s has a centralised canteen but CUH doesn’t. Give people healthy options on site. |
1.38.08-1.40.43 |
Community connection with Grattan Street more generally Edith has little interaction with Middle Parish community. Sees people coming and going from Middle Parish Community Centre and from the SHARE Centre, may help them across the road. Very little interaction which she finds quite sad. Would know some of the support workers in Edel House through working with them and phone calls. Reality of life is everyone is very busy. No funding for other community outreach projects. May run ante-natal classes in Grattan Street which would be good. The more engaged the community can be with the building the more likely they will be to turn up to their GP appointment or diabetic nurse appointment. |
1.40.43-1.43.40 |
Reflection choosing Medicine Would not want any of her children to do medicine. Comes at a big cost. Have to work 90 hour weeks and tell mother that their babies had died while her friends were traveling and going to parties. Have to go through hard parts of job to get to a role that you like. Came first in paediatrics in UCC please don’t tell Prof Carney/Kearney that she only went to about 2 paeds lectures! But spent a lot of time in the wards. Children are direct and Edith likes that. Interview Ends |
He describes his routine on school days, attending St Aloysius school and awareness of tenement houses en route. All the family except his father who was traveling returned for a big meal at lunch time prepared by a local woman who worked for them. Always ate fish on Friday. Recalls respectability being very important.
He recalls the Haggart or “Haggy Field” at the bottom of Wyses Hill where “ponnies” or chamber pots were emptied.
He remembers family adversities: death of his mother, father’s heart attack and his brother’s autism.
He outlines more of his family history: paternal grandfather involved in construction of Fitzgerald’s park and the 1902 Cork Exhibition, maternal grandfather Cronin was a cattle dealer, Cronin’s Field at the top of Cathedral Road may be named after him.
He mentions pawn shops and how the family christening cups would “go missing” and be located in the local pawn. Also recalls a “shawlie” asking him to fill her a jug of porter from a bar as she did not want to be seen going inside herself.
He describes his Christian Brothers secondary school, the violence of corporal punishment, the teachers and cycling to and from school. Discusses the emphasis on rugby at the school, the elitism of this and the uniform. Reflects how in retrospect the school failed to address personal or emotional problems the pupils had. Mentions the one-day-a-week school nearby. Describes the Eglinton Baths.
Talks about studying for the Leaving Cert at Holy Trinity College with “Doc Payne” before attending UCC. Recalls studying and socialising at university before outlining his further medical training, specific cases in hospitals (North Infirmary, CUH (Cork University Hospital) and St. Finbarr’s) and ultimate career trajectory towards becoming a GP.
Reflects on improvements in medical care including vaccines, nutrition, public health and improving survival rates for many diseases. Remembers delivering his first baby and reviving a child who died from cardiac arrest.
Describes ultimately working on Grand Parade as a GP in the surgery of Dr Michael Cagney who had fought in the Spanish Civil War.
Discusses making house calls in “The Marsh” area, and the treatment of psychiatric problems.
Finally, Derek reflects on his career, the sense of guilt and hypervigilance instilled in his medical training, and how mistakes are made when not following your intuition.
]]>Originally from Winter’s Hill, Derek describes his home and family: siblings, grandmother, his GP mother and his father who worked in insurance. He outlines his mother’s tasks and equipment as a GP.
He describes his routine on school days, attending St Aloysius school and awareness of tenement houses en route. All the family except his father who was traveling returned for a big meal at lunch time prepared by a local woman who worked for them. Always ate fish on Friday. Recalls respectability being very important.
He recalls the Haggart or “Haggy Field” at the bottom of Wyses Hill where “ponnies” or chamber pots were emptied.
He remembers family adversities: death of his mother, father’s heart attack and his brother’s autism.
He outlines more of his family history: paternal grandfather involved in construction of Fitzgerald’s park and the 1902 Cork Exhibition, maternal grandfather Cronin was a cattle dealer, Cronin’s Field at the top of Cathedral Road may be named after him.
He mentions pawn shops and how the family christening cups would “go missing” and be located in the local pawn. Also recalls a “shawlie” asking him to fill her a jug of porter from a bar as she did not want to be seen going inside herself.
He describes his Christian Brothers secondary school, the violence of corporal punishment, the teachers and cycling to and from school. Discusses the emphasis on rugby at the school, the elitism of this and the uniform. Reflects how in retrospect the school failed to address personal or emotional problems the pupils had. Mentions the one-day-a-week school nearby. Describes the Eglinton Baths.
Talks about studying for the Leaving Cert at Holy Trinity College with “Doc Payne” before attending UCC. Recalls studying and socialising at university before outlining his further medical training, specific cases in hospitals (North Infirmary, CUH (Cork University Hospital) and St. Finbarr’s) and ultimate career trajectory towards becoming a GP.
Reflects on improvements in medical care including vaccines, nutrition, public health and improving survival rates for many diseases. Remembers delivering his first baby and reviving a child who died from cardiac arrest.
Describes ultimately working on Grand Parade as a GP in the surgery of Dr Michael Cagney who had fought in the Spanish Civil War.
Discusses making house calls in “The Marsh” area, and the treatment of psychiatric problems.
Finally, Derek reflects on his career, the sense of guilt and hypervigilance instilled in his medical training, and how mistakes are made when not following your intuition.
0.00.00 - 0.01.58 |
Family and House Grew up on Winter’s Hill between Blarney Street and Wyses Hill on northside of Cork. The third of 4 children all delivered by caesarean section. His mother was very small and the local GP, one of the first “lady doctors” of which there were only 4 or 5 at the time, and they covered for each other. Father worked in insurance and had a good job as assistant manager of insurance company. Mother worked full-time. Always family member in the house to help out, including a grandmother. An old male relative lived in the 3rd floor of the house. That wasn’t unusual, it wasn’t always one room per person. But it solved childminding issues. |
0.01.58 - 0.02.20 |
Grandmother Remembers grandmother’s lap, her dark blue apron with designs on it and knitting needles. She died when he was about 3. |
0.02.20 - 0.04.33 |
House and Mother’s GP Surgery 3 storey detached house, a bit unusual. Further back from the road than others, with passage in called “the passage”, hen house in front and back of house, which was normal at the time. Mother did house calls in the morning. In the evening they had to go to the dining room because the front room became the waiting room and she had her surgery upstairs. Learned young how to answer the phone. People might arrive with urine in a Paddy whiskey bottle. In retrospect she was checking pregnancies or urinary infections. He was frightened of her steriliser- an electric pot with instruments in it. Syringe needles were sharpened on an oil stone before being put in steriliser, and no one seemed to get infections. |
0.04.33 - 0.07.59 |
Routine/ Typical Day at Home & School Walked down Wyses Hill to school in St Al’s (St Aloysius) which was a girl’s school. Teachers Miss Brett, Miss Curran (Chris Curran’s sister maybe), Sister Aloysius in first class which was more challenging because she didn’t like the boys. There was two thirds girls in the class. At that time this was normal practice. Walked across Vincent’s bridge across by the Mercy Hospital and across by lark’s bridge. Recalls where the labour exchange is now (Intreo Centre Hanover Street) there were beautiful Georgian Houses (tenement houses) in terrible condition with lots of washing out and women out talking to each other and several generations playing, and that was normal. No one thought there was anything right or wrong with it, it was just the way it was. Went home for lunch, and often had soup and a main course especially in the winter time. A lighter meal in the evening. All the family returned home for lunch except his father who might be traveling to Bantry or Skibbereen which was a long way at the time. A lady prepared the meals for the family. People who worked in the house lived locally and were like members of the family. They might work for 2 or 3 years and move on, often when they got married. Someone else would come then, often by word of mouth, perhaps through his mother’s GP practice. Always ate fish on a Friday which he didn’t like. Suspects there was a rota for meals. ‘Meat and two vegetables’ was always the meal. Felt privileged to have that as not everyone could, and there was a good bit of poverty around. Recalls a “soundbite” from Blarney Street: “Johnny come in for your rasher and two eggs!” There was a great respectability, everyone respected everyone else and there wasn’t any talking down to people- it wasn’t acceptable.
|
0.07.59 - 0.09.49 |
Playing near Home & the Haggard Didn’t get out of the house all that much. Played football outside the door for a while. Area called “the Haggy” across from where they lived, the Haggard* which was a kind of wasteland roughly where fancy apartments at bottom of Wyses hill are now. People used to dump their “ponnies”** in the old days. It wasn’t regarded as a place you’d go, it was just a steep hill. But people went there with their (chamber) pots. But the stigma of it not being a clean place remained even maybe 100 years after running water and sewage came in. So when playing football if the ball went down the haggy no one wanted to fetch it. Was not allowed to go out to play football, mother would have had a “conniption fit” had she known they were out doing that. [*Haggard or Haggart: A farmyard or small enclosed field; a vegetable patch or kitchen garden. Or area adjacent to the farm yard or what once was a farm yard. Traditionally this was an enclosed area on a farm for stacking hay, grain or other fodder. (sources: Wiktionary, meathfieldnames.com] **[ponny or ponnie: earthenware or metal pot or mug (Source: A Dictionary of Hiberno-English: The Irish Use of English ed. Terence Dolan)] |
0.09.49 - 0.12.43 |
Family, Changes and Adversity Mother died when he was 13. Dad had had 1st heart attack previous year and he had retired from work and started an insurance brokerage as a hobby. Sister Catherine did medicine and went to America and didn’t want to return. Different doctors tried to keep mother’s GP practice going. Older brother in insurance now retired. Younger brother Michael born hypothyroid and had severe autism slept in his room and found it normal to share a room with a practically non-verbal brother. Remarks on how people what people can accept as normal even if inconvenient and that people are strong in the face of adversity. Discusses the resentment and rage which is normalised by the internet which has also contributed to the polarisation of politics “it’s as if only extremes are correct”. History suggests consensus is what works. The manipulation of social media has contributed to this phenomenon. |
0.12.43 - 0.14.47 |
Mother, her GP work and her car Mother was very bubbly. Black hair with white stripe in the centre very careful about appearance hair was always done properly. Very hard worker with patients and at home. Expected high level of neatness and cleanness. She had a bubble car maybe 200cc with a door in the front. She covered other GPs. She went to Hettyfield and left 10 year old Derek doing his homework in the bubblecar. A 13 year old girl asked what it was and said “ours is a Consul Cortina”. The first time Derek felt his car might not be adequate. Bubble car had two seats at front one at back entered from the front. Recalls 4 children and his mother in the car! That was normal. |
0.14.47 - 0.16.53 |
Mother & Father: Backgrounds and relatives Mother and father put great store in education. She was youngest of 11 and one of the first to go to university. Dad was youngest of 17 children many in the family had been engineers. Derek’s grandfather had been married twice. Derek’s paternal grandfather died in 1917 before his father was born. Paternal grandfather was a builder/engineer/contractor had a lot to do with building of Fitzgerald’s Park, he has photographs of the grandfather with his workers dressed in Victorian outfits for the Cork Exhibition (1902 probably). Maternal grandfather was cattle-dealer Cronin. They lived up in Fair Hill which was subject to a compulsory purchase order in the 1960s by Cork corporation. Google maps lists Cronin’s Field at the top of Cathedral Road, assumes that this was the same field. Knew relatives at top of Hollyhill who were farming until Hollyhill as we know it was build. |
0.16.53 - 0.18.04 |
Pawnshops and stolen goods Two pawnshops on Lavitt’s Quay and one at bottom of Patrick’s Hill. Doesn’t recall who ran them. The Christening Cups were stolen a few times by the same person from the waiting room in the house and were located by the Gardaí in the local pawn shop. |
0.18.04 - 0.21.36 |
Secondary School: transport, teachers, shawlies, baths Went to Christian Brother’s College (CBC) after St Aloysius, his grandfather, father and brother had gone there. One teacher Mr Richard McCarthy known as Dicky Rashers called Derek by his father’s name because he had taught him as well. The story with Dicky Rashers was that he had dietary issues and after Christmas an announced that he had had rashers. He was a nice man. If it was raining they got the number 14 bus down Wyses Hill which came every 20 minutes. They used to hide because Dicky Rashers would offer them a lift which they didn’t want from a teacher. Also cycled to school. Got wheels caught in railway track going to Eglinton Baths. Those railway bridges opened until the 1970s. Goods trains and Guinness trains used to cross over them. Cycled up Patrick’s Hill to get to the Christian’s rugby field (Landsdowne). Cycled down the hill when it was raining, breaks failed and stopped where Brown Thomas is now. Only 4 or 5 cars on Blarney Street at the time. When 15 a shawlie stopped him near the Templeacre Bar (Gurranebraher Road) and she gave him a pint jug and asked him get her Guinness from the snug. She would not be seen going into the pub but wanted her Guinness. |
0.21.36 - 0.24.09 |
Secondary school teachers Christians was somewhat elitist which a lot of people were not comfortable with. Many teachers were old and not qualified teachers. Mr Murphy taught him art for leaving cert, but he had been teaching junior infants. He was very small his feet would not touch the ground when sitting on a desk. Mr Townshend music teacher and great musician. All characters. Violence of corporal punishment, queuing around the classroom to answer questions on Geography or Latin. If you weren’t very academic you got a lot of beatings on the hands. Some of those less academic pupils became very successful businessmen. The Christian brother told the boys in the B class to be nice to boys in the C class because they might need to get a job from them later. |
0.24.09 - 0.26.04 |
Secondary Schools in general, elitism & ‘One Day a Week School’ The uniform was part of the school’s elitism. There was a school nearby “the Wana” (one day a week) and there was a clear difference between them and CBC. CBC had disciplined and scheduled classes all day. The one day a week school pupils were obeying the law, 12 or 13 years old selling papers to make money. They had to attend school until a certain age. People with dyslexia were beaten and treated with contempt. Scoil Mhuire girls private school was nearby and quite posh. Around the corner was St Angela’s was less posh. Rivalry between Christians and Pres (PBC, Presentation Brothers College). |
0.26.04 - 0.27.22 |
Secondary School: lack of empathy, attitudes towards sports Was in first year of secondary school when mother died. There was no recognition of that in school and he dropped from A class to B class. A little help would have gone a long way. In retrospect there were probably a number of pupils with ongoing issues which were never addressed by the school, while the emphasis was on playing rugby. Rugby in Cork was elitist then too. Derek joined Tramore Athletic soccer club. A cousin played tennis quite well and a Christian brother said “why wouldn’t he take up a boy’s game?” |
0.27.22 - 0.28.44 |
Eglinton Baths, swimming, chipper Eglinton Baths had a boys’ pool and a girls’ pool. Probably 25 yards. White tiles with balcony around each pool. Communal hot showers, but the pool itself was freezing and stinking of chlorine. “It wasn’t unusual to be blue and wet!”. Went home via Maylor Street and went Matt Kiely’s chip shop to warm up a bit. |
0.28.44 - 0.29.30 |
Changes after mother’s death, father’s career Younger brother went into full-time care when his mother died. And his dad was involved in local politics and trying to run a business. He was a Fine Gael councillor for over 20 years in the North Central part of Cork which would have been unusual. He was involved in the health board and the building of the regional hospital. He was chairman of the hospital board for years and of the health board. |
0.29.30 - 0.31.36 |
Repeating the Leaving Cert with Dr Paye Derek always assumed that he would be a doctor. He was offered a place in dentistry in college which he declined. His dad got him into the Holy Trinity College on Washington Street “Doc Paye’s” which was a military camp for getting your leaving certificate. He is grateful to Dr Paye and Miss Paye. For this school your hair was cut very tight, you wore a humiliating uniform, “you arrived on time or you didn’t arrive at all”. Mixed class, boys wore black, girls wore red with tartan. Every class was structured 45 minutes and took serious notes. They had studied the leaving cert papers and knew what needed to be learned. Still sees Dr Paye around and she must be a good age. |
0.31.38 - 0.34.15 |
First experience of University: courses and social and sport life After he resat the leaving cert he went to UCC in a course call First Common Science. This was an experiment when Pre-Med and Pre-Dent courses were done away with. In First Common Science you competed for your course. Had little experience of social mixing, and enjoyed going to the Kampus Kitchen (Campus Kitchen) to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee, and drink beer in the evening if you could afford it. First Common Science was not a problem because of the work done in Dr Paye’s. 60 got into medicine, 20 into dentistry and the rest did other science degrees maybe dairy science and science. Glad he got to mix and get to know more people. Thinks that his son who went to Trinity to do medicine probably missed out on that aspect of social life as he went straight into medicine. Small group of people in his course. There used to be rugby matches in the quarry in UCC where the Boole Library is now. The pitch was very muddy in winter. Dentistry were not able to field a team as there were not enough men doing the course. Playing the quarry you were just as good as everyone else because everyone was terrible. |
0.34.15 - 0.37.39 |
University: playing cards, betting, debating society, studying For the first year or two Kampus Kitchen was the place to play cards and a lot of money was won and lost there. He stopped playing cards because he saw people lose their grants. He once lost the money to be spent on a shirt for the Med Ball and had to attend with a pink shirt. As regards clubs and societies looking back he thinks he should have attended the Philosoph (UCC Philosophical Society, college debating society). People who were from Cork probably got less involved in clubs and societies, whereas those living on or near campus would have become more involved. Thinks the Philosoph would have broadened his education, mentions how Theo Dorgan was there during his time in college and thinks that Theo got a broader education compared to the narrower field of medicine. His education was greatly advanced in 2nd Year Medicine while in the library fretting about a physiology exam maybe 2 weeks before the exam. A mature student around 35 years old told him “the information in a book is inversely proportional to its size”.
|
0.37.39 - 0.39.37 |
What’s needed to become a doctor and to practice No one asks him as a doctor where he came in his class, and it wouldn’t make a difference anyway. Many people who were academically gifted would not have been suited to being doctors. Is concerned that a medical education which requires strong left-sided brain skills to remember and regurgitate material may not produce great communicators and not great doctors. Someone with an average IQ could be a very good doctor. The economics of being a doctor suggest that maybe it should not be so attractive for people and they would be better in IT or science. Once you qualify in medicine that is only the beginning: you have to graft for jobs, get relevant experience and only then try to make a living. It’s just a primary degree unlike dentistry where you are a qualified dentist once you complete the degree |
0.39.37 - 0.42.48 |
Working in North Infirmary: learning, some memorable cases Went to the North Infirmary. Lovely hospital to work in, was very well-treated. Very hard work. 3 medical interns, 3 surgery interns, maybe 2 SHO (Senior House Officer) and 2 Registrars. Recalls first night he was on for surgery when a patient from motorbike accident was to arrive in and the SHO left before the patient arrived. Nurses were excellent. Learned how to do things. Learned how to recognise cases that were too hot to handle. When on call started 9am Friday finished Monday at 5. There were very few GPs out of hours so got big queues in North Infirmary. Went to bed 4am one Sunday morning and he was told there was a young man with chest pain. The young man looked pale and sweaty and was wearing ex-army jacket which was “all the rage” at the time. Discovered that the man had been playing darts, had gotten a dart in the back and had a chest full of blood. Learned to be careful and not take things at face value. Another night a man was brought in by his friends. At the time Match of the Day (football highlights and analysis TV programme on BBC) was at 7pm or 8pm. The man had been in the pub and “his leg was swinging in the breeze”, he had fallen off a bar stool and broken his hip around 7:30pm but had stayed in the pub until Match of the Day was over before coming to hospital. |
0.42.48 - 0.51.04 |
Changes in healthcare: preventative medicine, vaccination, alcohol Suggests people may have been tougher in the past. Then reflects on the improvements in medicine and that “the good old days weren’t so good”, people didn’t live as long, not vaccinated, poor nutrition. As nutrition improved children became taller than their parents. Improvements in prognosis. Enthusiastic about preventative medicine. Although the medical card system did not take that into account, doctors were not paid for vaccinations on the medical card but they did it anyway. Gay Byrne encouraged people to get the measles vaccine. And there was a change in the demographics of the measles incidents over two years after that. Didn’t see cases of measles for 15-20 years, and it only reappeared when anti-vaxers (anti vaccination campaigners) appeared. Thinks it’s a scandal. Vaccination for measles is not individual it is based on herd immunity it requires 80-90% of the population to be vaccinated or the vulnerable will get it: people with immunodeficiency, leukaemia, chemotherapy. Discusses the changes in gender demographics in relation to cardio-vascular diseases and risk factors. There had been an economic difficulty with alcohol-you could only afford a small amount of alcohol (or cigarettes). But now alcohol is cheaper and cigarettes are more expensive. Mentions the trend of pre-drinking. Suggests problems of alcohol appear to occur further north of the equator. Discusses the off-licenses in Sweden where you had to order alcohol a bit like the system of ordering products in Argos. If your order for alcohol exceeded accepted level you were not served. This didn’t prevent people drinking as they made their own. Discusses the positive effect of smoking ban and the way people use the “nanny state” argument to oppose basic public health measures. Talks about the improvements in treatments and survival rates particularly for cancers and cardio vascular diseases. Compares this to reactions of indignation. Points out the hidden nature of preventative health care which can be effective but is rarely seen of credited. Preventative care is also less well understood compared with waiting times for doctors or ambulances, number of hospital beds. Thinks the question should be about quality of life and what can be done to improve it. |
0.51.04 - 0.52.47 |
North Infirmary working routine, cost of hospitals In north infirmary there was a doctors’ room and dining room where you had your own seat and there was a colour television which was unusual at the time. 6 interns. You worked every day and every third night as well and every third weekend. But if someone was on holidays you had to work every second one. The cost of a bed per night in the hospital was £80 and when it was closed the cost in other hospitals was £200-£300 per night. Discusses the merits of centres of excellence and lower-tech hospitals. |
0.52.47 - 0.57.07 |
Further training in St Finbarr’s & CUH, reviving a child, CPR After North Infirmary did obs and gynae (obstetrics and gynaecology) in St Finbarr’s Hospital and CUH (Cork University Hospital). Great training, lovely, practical and kind obstetricians. A small nurse Sister Tutor called him at night for a mother giving birth. The nurse cleverly directed him in delivering the baby with a forceps while making it seem like he was the one doing all the work. “Without the nurses we’d be nowhere”. His daughter is a nurse and sees how knowledgeable and capable they are at the coal face. Unwise for doctors to ignore what nurses say. The importance of everyone being on the same team. Recalls an A and E (accident and emergency) nurse who had all the equipment ready while the doctor was looking up what was to be done. Recalls a child around 7 years old who was dead from cardiac arrest after getting electrocuted on a Saturday afternoon. They used intubation, put up a drip, drugs, cardiac massage, and defibrillation. They didn’t have time to look up dosages they divided them amounts by 4 for a child. They had a good success rate at reviving dead bodies in North Infirmary- community response is key today. “an ambulance on its way doesn’t keep your heart beating.” Believes everyone should learn the basics of CPR. Recalls CPR in his GP practice. |
0.57.07 - 0.58.50 |
Further medical training and useful A & E experience After obs and gynae he did paediatrics, psychiatry, and a year in A and E where he learned that a little smile went a long way. Talked about how to politely and carefully deal with cases which were not serious enough to be in A and E. Public who might be waiting all day did not see the very serious cases that were happening out of sight. It was good training for a GP practice. |
0.58.50 - 1.04.21 |
Own GP practice, Dr Cagney’s GP practice & Spanish Civil War, Set up own GP practice on northside in their house. Found it lonely because there were so few patients coming in. He then practiced with Dr Michael Cagney until he got a stroke. Dr Michael Cagney was a remarkable man, big burly, chain-smoking man very kind to people. He would tell people to give up cigarettes while he was smoking at the same time. He was doing surgery and he returned to GP practice because he father had been running a practice but became ill. When Dr Michael Cagney sat his leaving cert he was too young to go to college so his dad and General Eoin O’Duffy decided to send him to fight in the Spanish Civil War. He rarely spoke about his time in that war, and must have been traumatised by it. He probably thought he was going out “to help the raped nuns.” Many people from Ireland went to fight in that war. And it was not that long ago. Reflects on children today being used as soldiers in other countries, and being involved in drug gangs in Ireland and on those who leave to fight for Al Qaeda today and crusaders in the past. Dr Michael Cagney was probably born around 1920. The practice was in 51 Grand Parade, 2 floors up. It was a very good practice, he was very ethical and kept very good notes on large A4 file in alphabetical order which was probably unusual for the time. They used the Merck Manual which was an encyclopaedia of therapeutics. You could ring surgeons for advice. There was a great sense of responsibility and great collegiality. Refers to the changing ways of doctors referring patients to hospitals. |
1.04.21 - 1.06.09 |
First day in new GP Practice, changes in care, responses to bad cases Remembers first day in Dr Michael Cagney’s practice which was in a back room and patients wanted to see Dr Cagney rather than Derek: “With respect to you doctor I’d like to see the doctor!” After time people came to see him specifically. Did everything, including: antenatal, postnatal and smears- it was perfectly normal for a male doctor to do a smear in those days before there were headline cases of doctors who did the wrong thing. Derek became deskilled in that area because it was too much of a risk. Suggests that new practices are often introduced in response to hard cases. Mentions the response to the Dr Harold Shipman murders in England where GPs had to list the number of patients they had who died in one year to prevent a similar case. One GP made a mistake in their statistics and rang up to clarify them, but was told no one would ever read the statistics so it didn’t matter. Says that lots of information is gathered but never really used. |
1.06.09 - 1.08.05 |
Learning on the job, diseases not disappearing Dr Michael Cagney learned surgery but had to learn paediatrics on the job. Thinks most people of average intelligence can learn very quickly when put in a situation. Recalls a patient with a rheumatic heart and the hospital intern found it hard to believe. Derek says “diseases don’t go away they’re just waiting for you to forget that they happen”. Thinks there will be more outbreaks of diseases due to lack of vaccination. Polio outbreak in Amsterdam 20 years ago. “diseases don’t go away because you are sophisticated or rich or white.” |
1.08.05- 1.09.51 |
Attitudes to vaccination, TB Treatments in Cork Discusses the positive attitude towards vaccination in the past. People had seen children with whooping cough and adults who had holes in their lungs because of it. Doctors had patients who had limps from polio epidemic in Cork in 1950s, knows of a patient who died of post-polio syndrome in their 70s. TB was common but few admitted to having it- stigma associated with it comparable to leprosy or HIV. Mentions Mr Hickey in Sarsfield’s Court who was able to collapse lungs and do pioneering surgery to treat TB. Thinks vaccination is question of statistics not opinion. |
1.09.51 - 1.12.20 |
Routine as GP: house calls, pager, patients not going to hospital Typical day started around 9am. Might do 10 house calls in a day because people didn’t go to hospital or if they did not for very long. House calls were also more common back then because of the lack of transport options for patients. Discusses the pager service, finding a public pay phone and how getting in contact with a patient an hour after they used the pager was considered fast. Dealt with a lot of pathology at home if patients did not wish to go to hospital. Could visit a patient at home every day for a week or two if they had a serious condition. It was very gratifying when patients recovered. |
1.12.20 - 1.15.06 |
Public Health Nurse care Had little contact with the Grattan Street dispensary and health centre. Mentions the dental service there, ophthalmologist Dr O’Sullivan and public health nurses (PHNs). When doing the membership of general practice in London he was not believed when he said there were only 2 PHNs for Cork city centre. PHNs medical care had a physical, psychological and social side. Knows that dispensary doctors had limited treatments: “blue tablets, red tablets and liquids”. They worked before the medical card system, which he thinks came in the 1970s. When Derek became a doctor the system was ‘fee per item’ you were paid a small amount for each thing you did as a GP. Everything had to be written in a duplicate book. |
1.15.06 - 1.17.52 |
‘The Marsh’ memories. Case of anaemic man Dad was in the St Vincent De Paul and many in the Marsh were living with 2 or 3 families (in some case 5 families) living in the same big Georgian Houses. Many of these were knocked down in the 50s and 60s and many moved to Cathedral Road and Fair Hill. Some families had lived for generations in the Marsh. Recalls visiting a man a PHN was concerned about. Man lived with his dog and had a picture of Elvis on one wall and Jesus on the other. He was very anaemic but wouldn’t go to hospital. The remedy was some injections of B12, iron and oral folic acid and Meals on Wheels. Believes the problem was nutritional- living on spam sandwiches. |
1.17.52 - 1.20.35 |
People with psychiatric problems lived in the community in the past, now are being hospitalised Some people who lived in the city centre had come from elsewhere where may have been rejected. Some had mild schizophrenia or personality problems. They came to live in the anonymity of town. Many muddled along living in bedsits and had as much company as they wished. Now similar cases are put in hospital maybe in situations that do not suit them. Discusses the idea of putting anyone with psychiatric problems into the same category. Compares how we treat other illnesses- there is no “abdominal ward” which would treat a huge array of different illnesses, these are catered for separately. Similarly he thinks it doesn’t make sense to put people who are depressed or hearing voices in the same place as those with an eating disorder. Does not think the problem will be solved by additional money alone. |
1.20.35 - 1.21.40 |
Ability of people to cope. Publican ran bar walking on her knees Highlights the extraordinary ability of people to cope. Recalls an elderly lady (who probably had polio) and ran a bar walking on her knees on a bench behind the counter. Thinks that today there is more a demand for everything to be perfect and this can lead to unhappiness. |
1.21.40 - 1.24.15 |
Reflects on career, mistakes and medical training Thinks that when he made mistakes it was because he had ignored the inner voice that suggested something didn’t smell right. One of the things that was instilled in learning to be a doctor was basic guilt. The default was guilt, the sense that if something went wrong it must be your fault. That is the downside of medicine: trained into a guilt-trip. Makes you vigilant all the time which can be tiring. Wouldn’t change anything, felt privileged and happy to meet people and make a connection and friends. It wasn’t possible to be friends with your patients, there had to be a dividing line, though he is friends with them now. You couldn’t do business with or have a relationship or a social life with a patient. Peggy Cronin O’Connell and Vincent O’Connell were his parents’ names. Interview Ends 1.24.15 |
Speaks of the poverty in the Middle Parish which necessitated buying goods on credit and selling clothes and jewellery to pawnshops. Mentions pawn locations. Mentions bringing empty bottles to shops to fill them with milk.
Discusses the conditions of the tenement houses in the Middle Parish including the sanitation arrangements such as outdoor toilets and the use of newspaper as toilet paper, he also mentions heating issues including timber, turf and coal which was available via a voucher scheme. Further discusses cooking, washing in the tenements including the introduction of gas and electricity. Also mentions medicines for lice and worms administered at home.
Says that boys and girls played different games separately when he was growing up. Mentions some of these games in more detail.
Discusses foods (including tripe and drisheen, pig’s tongue, Connie Dodgers) meal routines and the shops where food was purchased. Liam and his mother brought lunch to his father where he worked on the docks.
Returns to the topic of corner shops and shopping and the types of food available there, further comparing this to supermarkets today.
Speaks of the death of his mother and the change in living circumstances that this entailed.
Describes getting a vaccination in the dispensary, what it was like inside and who worked there.
Mentions fights outside bars at night time.
Talks about air raid shelters built in Cork city during the Second World War, what they looked like and where they were located.
]]>Liam Ó hUigín: Grattan Street, Healthcare, The Marsh
Liam grew up on Henry Street in The Marsh and recalls playing football on Grattan Street which was busy and full of activity with businesses, pubs, shops a fire station, barber shops and tenements. He discusses some shops and games in more detail.
Speaks of the poverty in the Middle Parish which necessitated buying goods on credit and selling clothes and jewellery to pawnshops. Mentions pawn locations. Mentions bringing empty bottles to shops to fill them with milk.
Discusses the conditions of the tenement houses in the Middle Parish including the sanitation arrangements such as outdoor toilets and the use of newspaper as toilet paper, he also mentions heating issues including timber, turf and coal which was available via a voucher scheme. Further discusses cooking, washing in the tenements including the introduction of gas and electricity. Also mentions medicines for lice and worms administered at home.
Says that boys and girls played different games separately when he was growing up. Mentions some of these games in more detail.
Discusses foods (including tripe and drisheen, pig’s tongue, Connie Dodgers) meal routines and the shops where food was purchased. Liam and his mother brought lunch to his father where he worked on the docks.
Returns to the topic of corner shops and shopping and the types of food available there, further comparing this to supermarkets today.
Speaks of the death of his mother and the change in living circumstances that this entailed.
Describes getting a vaccination in the dispensary, what it was like inside and who worked there.
Mentions fights outside bars at night time.
Talks about air raid shelters built in Cork city during the Second World War, what they looked like and where they were located.
0.00.00 - 0.00.31 |
intro |
0.00.31 - 0.02.55 |
Memories of Grattan Street and surrounding area Shops and Buildings Grattan Street was a busy street with many businesses. Most important was the fire brigade. When the new St Francis Church was being built (Broad Lane church as it was called by people in the Middle Parish) the fire brigade amalgamated with Sullivan’s Quay and the priest of Old Broad Lane church moved into the old fire brigade building while new church was being built. Children missed the excitement of the fire brigade. Very vibrant street. 6 pubs: Kellehers, Crosses, Landers, Carrols (later called the Tostal Inn), Ramble Inn (owned by Mrs Brick) two Murphys public houses near Broad Lane which runs from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Shops and sweet Shops: The Rodisses, The People’s Dairy, The M Laundries, 2 Gents Hairdressing Saloons (called barber shops): Leahy’s and Keanes. Where the Community Centre is now was called Mechanics Hall, because the mechanics had a union and meetings there. Later it was known as Matt Talbot Hall. There were lots of tenement houses in the area. [Liam’s phone rings.] |
0.03.06 - 0.05:04 |
Tenement Houses, Lanes, playing in Graveyard Where Patrick Hanely Buildings are now there were tenement houses. Liam only barely remembers them as they were being demolished in the late 1940s and early 1950s. They were derelict sites for a while, which was his playground. St Peter’s Cemetery down Peter Church Lane, playing among the headstones, and hiding or planking cigarettes. Shops: Manning’s Shops at corner of Henry Street and Grattan Street, Mrs Mullins at corner of Coleman’s Lane. From Coleman’s Lane to Adelaide Street there were 4 or 5 houses there with 4 or 5 families in each house. Remembers Shinkwin? Family, the Dineens. When they moved out they went to Gurranabraher, Ballyphehane and the suburbs in Ballincollig. |
0.05:04 - 0.06.56 |
Childhood Games and Activities Very little Traffic on the roads at the time. Liam was living in Henry Street round the corner from Grattan Street. Recalls soccer matches from one end of the street to the other and wouldn’t see a car. Friends who came from Blarney Street or Barrack Street couldn’t understand why the streets were so wide and loved it for a game of football. If a woman with a pram approached while they were playing football they would pick up the ball or if they played near the Mercy Hospital they knew that they should keep quiet without anyone telling them and Liam thinks that has changed today. Many of his friends live in Grattan Street and everyone was a happy family until there was a row and they had a battering match with “stones down the quarry”. They used to swim by the Mercy Hospital by the ladder. And then on to ‘the pipe’ up the Lee Fields and then the weir and every second day they had the Lee Baths one day for boys one for girls. Today it’s mixed. |
0.06.56 - 0.11.32 |
Poverty-Buying on Credit and using Pawn Shops Could get messages or shopping on tick or on credit. Milk, bread, quarter (pound) of cheese. There was no bottle of milk you had to bring in your own jug. If you ran out of money the shopkeeper would write it into a book and at the end of the week you could pay it off. A few people could afford not to be ‘on tick’. There were a few pawn shops on the North Main Street one near north Gate Bridge Jones, another across from Coleman’s Lane called Twomeys. There may have been more. There was one at the bottom of Shandon street owned by Jones as well. There were 18 or 19 pawn shops around the city one at bottom of Patrick’s Hill, one by fire brigade station on Sullivan’s Quay, two on Barrack Street. People would pawn clothes. Tradesmen would pawn trowels on Monday morning. Often for drink/ alcohol. Wives would pawn husband’s suit and take it back the following Saturday for going to mass. Nearly everyone used the pawn it was the forerunner to the Credit Union. If you pawned a pair of shoes for 10 shillings, you got a docket and you had to pay 11 shillings to get it back. Wives would be stressed making sure they could get the husband’s suit back in time for mass. It was a thriving business. If you didn’t claim your pawned items after a certain period it was put for sale in the window. Some people would pawn things openly. Other people would hide it under a shawl, or pretend to be pawning something for someone else. People felt ashamed. Almost everyone was scraping a living. Even some shopkeepers looked after people who may not have had enough to pay at the end of the week. At Christmas the shopkeeper would give you a present of a Christmas Cake or Christmas Candle depending on what type of customer you were. |
0.11.32 - 0.13.02 |
Work, Pawns, Showing off Wealth Liam doesn’t remember what or whether his family pawned. Liam’s dad was a docker which was paid on a daily basis and his mother was shrewd enough to put away some money every day. He knew that relations of his pawned things though. Bracelets, wedding ring, engagement ring, rarely a watch very few people had watches. Liam knew someone who went to work in Dagenham and he came back a Dagenham Yank with a different accent “a twang” and a watch. He walked into centre of Henry Street, pulled up his sleeve and pretended to be winging his watch while looking at Shandon clock tower just to show off his watch. |
0.13.02 - 0.13.46 |
Telephone Phones were also very scarce. One shop in Henry Street had a phone and there was a queue there for people wanting to use it. There was another phone booth by Vincent’s Bridge coming down Sunday’s Well. Liam remembers playing there and being afraid to go in to answer the phone. |
0.13.46 - 0.18.37 |
Tenement conditions, Emigrants, Social Comparison, Fuel Poverty Laneways around there: Philip’s Lane from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Skiddy’s Castle from Grattan Street to North Main Street. Coleman’s Lane, Peter Church Lane (now Avenue), Broad Lane (at the back of the church), all on to North Main Street from Grattan Street. Conditions were basic looking back with an outdoor toilet. One family on Henry Street had ten families with one cold tap in back yard and one toilet between them. They had to clean out every morning and bring an enamel bucket upstairs every morning. Had an inferiority complex about relations coming home from England. The relatives would be dressed up in finery but later Liam discovered they were also badly off but made the effort when coming home. The story of someone’s uncle who came back from America after 40 years and the family had moved out to the suburbs and they had a barbeque. And the uncle used the toilet inside the house. He said he used to eat inside and the toilet was outside and now it is reversed! They used newspaper instead of toilet paper. Turf and timber blocks for fuel for heating which father got going out the Straight Road. Some people got a voucher for a peck of coal which might only be a large shovel full. Some families got vouchers for free shoes like in the shop Furlongs in South Main Street (owner may have been lord mayor later) Liam wasn’t sure where the vouchers came from- maybe the Health Board. Doesn’t think there was any child benefit. Maybe the Sick Poor would provide the vouchers. They would visit people and the people would try to hide that they were calling. |
0.18.37 - 0.22.42 |
Cooking, Bathing, Hygiene and Medicines No cooking facilities only the fire. Mother would cook pot of potatoes on the fire and then transfer to the hob. 1948 no electricity in Henry Street at the time. When they got gas in mother told him not to leave kitchen door open to hide it from Liam’s grandmother who lived upstairs and was the real tenant. It wasn’t an oven it was a thing on a stand with two rings on it. Older people were afraid of being gassed. Saturday night the galvanised bath was put in front of fire with hot water and washed, and if you were the last person in the bath the water would be dirty. And then the children were lined up against the wall to get a weekly does of cod liver oil, or Brutlax, California syrup of figs, Senna? All because of worms. Some newspaper put on the table and hair combed with fine tooth comb to get rid of lice- it was an ordeal. Brutlax was like chocolate but a laxative. Milk of magnesia used as well. Given those every Saturday night to prevent you getting sick. Some of them had a terrible taste. If someone got sick taken to the dispensary. |
0.22.42 - 0.24.12 |
Children’s Games Different for boys and girls Spent much time in the derelict site where Patrick Hanley Buildings are now, used to connect to Cove street. They had battering matches with stones and they were going to the Mercy Hospital 4 or 5 times a week. They used to play chasing hiding from the nuns around the Mercy Hospital. Could bring a spinning top and hit is with a whip up and down the road without fear of traffic. Girls would tie a rope to a pole and swing around it and skipping as well. |
0.24.12 - 0.31.57 |
Food, traditions, routines. Lunch at Work Porridge for breakfast which you eat if you were given. His grandchildren now have a choice of 5 cereals. Goodie- bread and milk mixed maybe with sugar sprinkled on it. Some shops on North Main Street like Simcox or Currans Bakery you could get bread wrapped in soft tissue paper which was kept in a drawer at home for when visitors came to use for the toilet because it was better than newspaper. Potatoes and cabbage. Father loved pigs meat: pig’s heat, backbone, pig’s tail, crubeens. Liam still loves a crubeen except for the trouble of cooking of it, and it’s messy to eat. Mother was reared around Vicar Street. Barrack Street, Blarney Street, Shandon Street: that’s the way people lived because there was little Gurranabraher built and Ballyphehane wasn’t built yet. Tripe and drisheen is still a favourite, can get from Reilly’s in the market. Tripe cut into little pieces, with cornflower, onions, “white sauce”, drisheen put in later. Tripe and drisheen would be weekly. Liam loved the pig’s tongue because it was lean. Set day for each food. Liam’s dad was a docker and he would cut the ear off the pig’s head, put it in a sandwich with bread and butter, wrap in newspaper and that was his lunch. He wasn’t the only one. Thinks tripe is from sheep’s stomach. Blood in the drisheen. Connie Dodgers for Lent allowed one meal and two collations. Con Lucey said you could have a biscuit with a cup of tea as a collation. Liam thinks it was Larry McCarthy’s bakery that made a biscuit twice as big as the normal one. For Lent had to fast every Friday and couldn’t eat meat, except for people of a certain age. Religion was a big thing for people at the time. Lent didn’t bother Liam’s dad. Dockers worked hard. Where Elysian Tower is now, where the Eglinton Baths were Liam went with his mother and a bowl of soup and bread and butter and a tea towel over it. The dockers sat on the kerb eating their soup and sandwiches and they were all black with dirt no washing of hands. All the work was shovelling coal, Liam worked there for 2 days and had enough of it- nearly wanted a small shovel to fill the shovel he had. His dad was small but very wiry and strong. “They were marvellous people” |
0.31.57- 0.37.05 |
Pastimes, Shops and Opening Hours Dad spent time in the pub maybe too much. People listened to the radio or sat in front of the fire reading the newspaper. Some people with go hunting or play football or hurling. Liam plays golf now but at the time it was only for the elite doctors and solicitors. Liam’s dad never stood inside a golf club. Liam was 10 when his mother died she would offer him tripe and drisheen or a creamy cake for dinner and he would choose the cake. The corner shops are gone now because of the supermarkets. Corner shops on Henry Street were: Bode’s?, Mannings, Horrigan’s, Dermot’s on Adelaide Street. Dermot’s was first all-night shop in the city- wouldn’t be there during the day. Open from 8pm to 8am. A salesman in coca cola told Liam that Dermot lived on Pope’s Quay and owned a Morris Minor car and he drove it to Adelaide Street 7 days a week and the car was ten years old and there wasn’t 5,000 miles on it because that was all the driving he did. In Ballypheane Liam sees people carrying lots of bags after shopping in Aldi on Tory Top Road. Liam remembers going to Dermot’s for quarter pound of cheese (3 or 4 slices), half pound of tea, 2 eggs, there were no fridges so you bought and you ate them there was little storage. Dermot would put greaseproof paper over the blade and cut perfectly a few slices of cheese which had come from a timber box. Girls were interested in the box for making cots for dolls. There was no variety of cheese available just the one block. Sugar was available in quarter pounds rather than big bags. Men coming home from the pub would be sent back out to get a box of cocoa or milk from Dermot’s. There was no one on the street after 12 o’clock unlike today when there’s lots of people around after nightclubs. |
0.37.05 - 0.39.00 |
Death of Mother and Family Living Arrangements When Liam’s mom died his aunt who had 6 children moved upstairs from Liam. She has 5 daughters and 1 son and the son died of meningitis at 4 years old. Liam’s grandfather was dead. Aunt moved to grandmother in Vicar Street to look after her. Liam was going to school in Mardyke, father’s place during the day, went to grandmother’s in Vicar Street for food and washing and then back to the Marsh to sleep. He skipped school for almost 3 months (‘on the lang’) until the school wrote to his dad, who gave him a lecture. He was nearly 14 then and on the verge of leaving school anyway. |
0.39.00 - 0.44.13 |
The Dispensary now Grattan Street Health Centre, Tinsmith and Nurse Lots of cases of meningitis. Everyone in Cork used to go to the Dispensary. Everyone now in their 70s seems to remember Dr Cagney. He would give a bottle of coloured water. If you forgot your bottle you had to go to Mr Gamble the tinsmith in Grattan Street. He made ponnies, gallons, billycans. But when plastic came in there was no need for tinsmiths. Remembers getting injection or vaccination from Dr Cagney, thinks it may have been for smallpox but is not sure. He dreaded the needles for the syringes which were “like six-inch nails”. You went through a gate, into a yard and there were steps leading up to the entrance. A grey-haired woman maybe called Mrs O’Keefe. There were benches like in a church. There were hatches. You queued up for the doctor. And the hatches gave you the medicine. Other place for illness was Mercy Hospital. Recalls a midwife Nurse Anthony who called to people’s houses. Liam thought when younger than it was the midwife who brought babies on her bicycle. Aunt lived on Thomas Street (a continuation of Peter’s Street) to the back entrance of the Mercy Hospital where the “dead house” was where Liam’s mother was laid out. Remembers the Quirkes and the Horgans, Glandons?, McCarthys living there too and they all moved out when Mercy took over the whole block. Liam doesn’t remember playing around inside the Dispensary. |
0.44.13 - 0.45.35 |
Making vs Buying Lunch People who worked in Dispensary didn’t live in area. Doesn’t think people make lunches for work anymore. In modern day people go to shops like Spar for sandwiches and rolls. Wives/mothers used to make “lunches for them in the morning” for children who were working and there was a can with milk, tea and sugar. |
0.45.35 - 0.46.14 |
Families Living in Dispensary Grattan Street Thinks Mrs O’Keefe was only working there, possibly the cleaner. Mrs O’Keefe may not have been her name. Liam doesn’t think they were charging people in the dispensary. |
0.46.14 - 0.50.55 |
Attitude to health, Pubs, Fights, Market Gardens, Childhood Mischief There was no such thing as being left on a trolley. The Mercy hospital was the only hospital Liam knew, and every child in the Marsh went there at least once after a fall, hit with a stone on the head, a few stitches. Although, Liam’s aunt lost a son to meningitis. Didn’t have the medicines we have today. They were simple times but he doesn’t remember going hungry ever. Lots of pubs on Grattan Street and people were spending lots of time and money which put a burden on the family. Saturday night on Grattan Street there would usually be a fight, stripped to the waist. Bonfire night used to be a great night but no longer. No awareness of mental health. Called the Lee Road the Madhouse Road. First coloured person Liam ever saw was on Sheares Street and when they saw him they called him “Johnny the Black” and they got a chase. A chase was very important for children at the time. Fisherman on Wise’s Quay near Vincent’s Bridge the children used to throw stones in to frighten the fish away and the fisherman would chase them. Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday the market gardeners would bring their produce on horse and carts to the Coal Quay and the shopkeepers would come to buy vegetables off them. Liam and the children would steal (“knock off”) some cabbage and carrots. “Oliver Twist was only trotting after us”. |
0.50.55 - 0.51.15
|
Sweets You’d get a few sweets in Woolworths from the girls who worked there, to prevent them trying to steal them! |
0.51.15 - 0.55.10
|
WW2 Air Raid Shelters in Cork Three air raid shelters on Sheare’s Street, 2 in Henry Street and maybe a few in Grattan Street, at least one. O’Connell on Sheares Street was in charge of air raid shelter no 3. Fear of being bombed by German’s during World War 2 mass concrete buildings rather than underground. Liam has photograph of an air raid shelter on Patrick Street outside the Victoria Hotel and a photograph of it being knocked down. The son of the man who had the key to air raid shelter no 3 would rent out the space to old children if it was raining and they wanted to use it to play cards. In the 1940s. he lived at corner of Moore Street and Sheares Street. They were being demolished in 1948 or 1949. Air raid shelter remains inside the door of Elizabeth Fort and there are 2 on the grounds of the South Infirmary (Victoria Hospital), they’ve now been converted to stores. If you stand at bottom of South Terrace and you look up at “Rock Savage” on top of the hill at the back of the South Infirmary you can see it protruding out. Liam remembers the LDF became the FCA and that their “top coats” were good as blankets during the winter as you could put your hands into the pockets. Nearly every house had an army coat on the bed. Everyone was issued with a gas mask, Liam has one from a friend of his. Everyone had to be measured for their gas mask at the city hall or in schools. Liam’s dad wasn’t not in the LDF but his uncle was and it was his coat that was on the bed. |
0.55.10 - 0.59.24 |
Grattan Street, Dispensary, surrounding lanes, Terence MacSwiney connection Grattan Street was busy, vibrant street, always something happening there. Can’t believe seeing the traffic there now. Liam took a photograph of Prince Charles stopped in traffic outside the plaque to Patrick Hanely Buildings. The Dispensary was a historical place, there was a time when Grattan Street was a river and Meeting House Lane from North Main Street (at the side of Bradleys) was the entrance to any of the buildings on Grattan Street. Henry Street was known as Penrose Quay. On Adelaide Street at the back of where Curran’s Restaurant was there was a square called Penrose Square- after the Penrose Family that lived in Tivoli. If you come down Coleman’s Lane from Grattan Street and enter North Main Street up on the wall there are four plaques for the building where Terence MacSwiney was born. People think he was born in Blackpool because they confuse him with Tomas MacCurtain. Terence married one of the Murphy brewers. Liam is very interested in Terence MacSwiney and loves talking about him, maybe because he comes from the same area in Cork. |
0.59.24 - 0.59.41
|
Outro. Interview Ends. |
Describes the family home and routine chores. Speaks about the importance of sport especially tennis in her family upbringing.
Recalls her school days including instances of corporal punishment and the negative effects it had on people. Went home for lunch, mother prepared their dinner using meat from their butcher shop.
Describes secondary boarding school in Loreto Fermoy, especially the structure it imposed.
Speaks of how she had always intended to become a nurse. May have learned traits and habits useful for her career from her mother’s work ethic. Describes her nursing training in the Mercy Hospital and how the rosary was said there every night.
Describes her path to Public Health Nurse training in Dublin. Talks about her desire to work in the community rather than in the constraints of a hospital. Describes the wide range of PHN duties from pregnancies, births, infants, acute injury support, addiction, disability, older adults to dying and palliative care.
Discusses her current role as Assistant Director of Public Health Nursing where she advocates for early intervention to prevent behavioural issues in children. Mentions the large staff turnover due to the difficulties of the work. Much of the work involves building relationships.
Speaks about how poverty, social disadvantage, addiction, alcoholism affect children’s health and create a negative cycle which PHNs have a role in breaking. Speaks of how difficult it is for someone who hasn’t had parental role model to function as a parent themselves.
Talks about the move from Grattan Street to St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre and how she misses the other medical teams.
Describes Grattan Street as happy place to work, enjoyed the building and its quirks such as the gallery which facilitated casual conversation and the rattling windows. Believes people enjoyed working there because they got something positive from the building. Mentions the difficulties with parking there and its impact on the wider community. Feels that the building owned them.
Speaks of her hopes for the future of Grattan Street building once services move out.
Discusses caring for and moving vaccines as a School Nurse.
States that Grattan Street was a special place.
]]>Eileen grew up in Tallow in west Waterford in a family of seven. Her father ran the family butcher business attached to the house. She recalls him singing and whistling, and the sawdust on the shop floor. Recalls meat and tripe being sold and drisheen being made by her mother, explains this process.
Describes the family home and routine chores. Speaks about the importance of sport especially tennis in her family upbringing.
Recalls her school days including instances of corporal punishment and the negative effects it had on people. Went home for lunch, mother prepared their dinner using meat from their butcher shop.
Describes secondary boarding school in Loreto Fermoy, especially the structure it imposed.
Speaks of how she had always intended to become a nurse. May have learned traits and habits useful for her career from her mother’s work ethic. Describes her nursing training in the Mercy Hospital and how the rosary was said there every night.
Describes her path to Public Health Nurse training in Dublin. Talks about her desire to work in the community rather than in the constraints of a hospital. Describes the wide range of PHN duties from pregnancies, births, infants, acute injury support, addiction, disability, older adults to dying and palliative care.
Discusses her current role as Assistant Director of Public Health Nursing where she advocates for early intervention to prevent behavioural issues in children. Mentions the large staff turnover due to the difficulties of the work. Much of the work involves building relationships.
Speaks about how poverty, social disadvantage, addiction, alcoholism affect children’s health and create a negative cycle which PHNs have a role in breaking. Speaks of how difficult it is for someone who hasn’t had parental role model to function as a parent themselves.
Talks about the move from Grattan Street to St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre and how she misses the other medical teams.
Describes Grattan Street as happy place to work, enjoyed the building and its quirks such as the gallery which facilitated casual conversation and the rattling windows. Believes people enjoyed working there because they got something positive from the building. Mentions the difficulties with parking there and its impact on the wider community. Feels that the building owned them.
Speaks of her hopes for the future of Grattan Street building once services move out.
Discusses caring for and moving vaccines as a School Nurse.
States that Grattan Street was a special place.
0.00.00 - 0.00.25 |
Intro |
0.00.25- 0.02.04 |
Background Started in Grattan Street 2002 had been in different positions but haven been there full-time since 2012 as Assistant Director of Public Health Nursing. Covers the nursing staff for the City North-West area population 27,000. 10 area PHNs [Public Health Nurses] community RGN teams (Registered General Nurse). Eileen is PHN, RGN and registered mid-wife. You have to be an RGN to become a PHN. Worked as an RGN first in the community in North Cork prior Grattan Street. Then did PHN course in Dublin UCD (University College Dublin). Returned to Grattan Street, work as PHN on the ground, in schools, preschools, inspecting in nursing homes, assistant director of PHN since 2009. She was in two other sectors before that. |
0.02.04 - 0.04.21 |
Childhood in Waterford Born a long time ago! In Tallow west Waterford. From family of 7, has an older brother and four younger brothers and one younger sister. Father was a butcher, family business. Went to school in Tallow, then Loreto in Fermoy and then to the Mercy Hospital and did RGN training, then Dublin to Hollis Street for midwifery training. [Eileen’s phone rings but she mutes or turns it off and continues the interview] There were about four butchers in Tallow but now only a Supervalu. She remembers her dad singing and whistling below in the shop when she was in bed in the morning. He and his father were good singers and whistlers. Remembers sawdust in the shop and it going all over the house. Father and mother going to the marts getting sheep and animals coming to the back yard and into the slaughter house. Grew up with it so didn’t see anything unusual in it. Good happy childhood. Brothers and her all involved in sport. She and parents played tennis. “We were brought up in a tennis court” played some hockey in school. Lots of sports, golf as well. But now doesn’t have time with work. |
0.04.21 - 0.06.36 |
House at Home Growing up Two storey house on the street. Shop was attached to it. Downstairs there was a living room, a kitchen and a back kitchen and a room off the shop and four bedrooms upstairs and a bathroom, a big garden, a shed and a slaughter house. Grew up as an only girl, her sister is 14 years younger. She had gone to boarding school/secondary school by the time she was born. Had lots of friends in Tallow, still has them, still keep in touch. Did a lot of work in the house, as she tells her mother who’s now 92. They were all given jobs to do. She had to hoover the sawdust. She was involved in the weekly bath for her brothers, making sure their shoes were polished every Saturday evening. Thinks that today it is different, perhaps because of parenting. Dad died 10 years ago suddenly from a heart attack which she says was lovely for him. Siblings all alive, one in England. |
0.06.36 - 0.10.57 |
Produce in the Butchers Drisheen, Tripe, Black Pudding. And the making of them. Meat was sold in the butchers and some onions. Mother made drisheen and black pudding every Thursday to be ready for Friday and Saturday. Sometimes she would get some tripe from the market in Cork and it would be sold in their shop. They didn’t make the tripe themselves but they did the drisheen and black puddings using the serum. Serum from the blood and milk and pepper was used in it. It is supposedly good for you. And they ate that every Saturday night on top of sausages and rashers and they keep that tradition going but without the drisheen. Very mild flavour. It’s the frying that gives it a flavour. Maybe someone who wasn’t used to it might find a stronger flavour. Doesn’t remember the flavour of any herbs. It was a light grey colour in comparison to black pudding. Possibly some kind of sausage meat added to the black pudding. There was a machine where it would come from. Serum is separation from the blood when it is allowed to settle and there is a strainer. You use what floats to the top and discard the rest. Father and sister loved tripe but Eileen never “acquired the flavour for tripe” served “with boiled onions and milk”. Eileen doesn’t remember the butcher shop selling pork. But she thinks she might be wrong about that because her father kept a pig and he won a trophy for his prize pig when Eileen was about 7. |
0.10.57 - 0.15.09 |
School, Corporal Punishment, going home for Dinner School in convent in Tallow. Carmelites enclosed order still in Tallow, they didn’t teach but it was in their area. Boys had a separate school at the time but now it is co-ed: boys and girls. Enjoyed school. Reasonably well-behaved because terrified. Teachers could slap you, corporal punishment. Eileen didn’t get slapped often because she was a good girl. Remembers a small ‘roundy’ stick which would be used to hit children around the knuckles. Some teachers had less patience than others and found it difficult but the students didn’t understand that. She is glad corporal punishment is gone because it lowered self-esteem, and put you at a disadvantage. It wasn’t just the slap, it was that someone had carried it out on you. You felt brutalised. It was very common, right up to the time her children were in primary school, some of the teachers at the ends of their careers there had a reputation for corporal punishment. Would get a slap if they thought you weren’t paying attention or if you were talking to someone. Spoke about corporal punishment with her friends subsequently. And she discovered terrible things that happened to people which she wasn’t aware about at the time. Slaps across the face, pulling of ears, hit on the head. “You were an easy target. They had the power.” It was difficult. She thinks that if you were involved in sport you were treated a bit differently, though not if you were academic. They had outside toilets in primary school- “leaves and cold and wet”. Was able to go home at lunchtime and have dinner. “My wonderful mother had my dinner ready every day. For the nine of us.” |
0.15.09 - 0.15.48 |
Dinner and Types of Foods For dinner they would meat that hadn’t been sold in the butcher’s shop. They might have steak for a treat on Thursday night but usually more reasonable cuts of beef and lamb. Always meat, vegetable and potatoes. Mother was a great cook and baker so they always had something sweet to eat as well. |
0.15.48 - 0.19.01 |
Secondary School Boarding School Boarded in Loreto Fermoy, her brothers went to De la Salle in Waterford. Her parents worked hard to get them that education. Her mother had boarded but her father had left school early. Some of her friends from home went to Loreto as well and she also made new friends there. There for 5 years. Happy enough time. Initially allowed home every third weekend, eventually allowed home every weekend. As an only girl it was good to be around female company, she thinks she would have just been bossing the boys around at home. First impression was of the structure of the place: all your recreation time was spent in the one place. And you were there with your class, it was all set out for you and you had to fall into line. “I wasn’t unhappy there.” Calls by day, hockey in afternoon- sometimes go to Cork for a match. Every Saturday they were not at home they went for walks, they walked through the town, on parade in their uniforms. Had music at night in the social room listening to records. Abiding memory is of seeing Dana winning the Eurovision. Maybe she saw something about Bloody Sunday as well.” |
0.19.01 - 0.20.36 |
Career Choice. Nursing. Mother’s education. Role of Religion. Mercy Hospital “For some reason I always had nursing in my head.” Maybe because her mother said she would have done nursing if she could- she had left school after her Junior Cert and did a year in a technical school where she got her baking skills. Mom was a great worker so thinks she would have made a great matron rather than a nurse because she would have wanted everything done properly. Eileen says she may have some of those traits herself. After Eileen’s training when she went into the hospital she felt claustrophobic “for some reason it didn’t sit well on me.” She did 3 years in the Mercy. There were nuns there at the time: “Great fun, hard work.” |
0.20.36 - 0.22.07 |
Role of religion in the Mercy Hospital. The rosary was said every night on the wards. Had to go down on your knees at 6 o’clock and shout out the decades of the rosary. Biggest thing was that they had to know the joyful, glorious and sorrowful mysteries. They went to mass every morning around 7am when they stayed in the nurses home for the first year and a half. Nuns were strict. She was only 17 when she was there so she thinks it might have been good. She didn’t regret doing nursing but she didn’t take it too seriously either. |
0.22.07 - 0.23.18 |
Nursing Training in Mercy Hospital Three years training but only got a certificate. Learned anatomy, physiology and putting it into practice and managing patients/clients, eventually managing a ward. Managing night-time with patients coming in. managing a children’s ward. Dealing with everything: clinical care, surgery, people dying. Children dying. Recalls children dying in St. Anne’s Ward that will never leave me. Delighted to see the Mercy is busy and expanding. She has fond memories of it. |
0.23.18 - 0.26.55 |
Route to PHN and Grattan Street Did a little bit of work there wasn’t much work for qualified nurses at the time. Went to Fermoy Hospital, a community hospital. Worked there for a few months. Went to Hollis Street and spent a year there- very interesting. Opening into a different experience in the capital. She was madly in love at the time came home frequently. Eventually went back to Fermoy Hospital and got married at 23 in June, and by October of the following year she had her first son and so gave up nursing. Husband was self-employed and was often away and she felt one of them needed to be there they had three children. When the children got older she decided to do a course in fitness and taught exercise classes for 8 years. She had tried to get into PHN but hadn’t enough experience. She met a friend in Fermoy in 1998 and she said why not go into the community they are looking for RGNs in North Cork. She applied, got it and then “got the bug for the community” and applied twice to UCC for PHN course and they didn’t think she was suitable. She was accepted in Dublin and found it challenging. She was 47 at the time. She was up there for three week period. She came home every weekend. She came home on placement for a two week period placed in North Cork. That’s how it operated for the academic year. it was manageable and she had always wanted to do it. She was going back into a group of nurses who had been working, who knew everything, who knew computers and Eileen could barely send a text message on a phone. She was accomplished at essays by the time she was finished. She entered Grattan Street 2002. |
0.26.55 - 0.28.25 |
Public Health Nursing Eileen enjoyed the freedom of PHN, didn’t like the constraints of the hospital and the regimental nature of it. PHN suited her. Liked going into clients’ homes and fitting in with them rather than them fitting into a structure in a hospital. She wonders about the broad, complex, extended and manic nature of what is being attempted in the community now. She hasn’t been out working in 2009 but she has been working managing staff inside and supporting them in client management. |
0.28.25 - 0.33.06 |
Role of Public Health Nurse Looking after clients from the ante-natal (pregnancy period) to the end of life care. Anything and everything in between that. A huge sphere. Looking after mums to be, babies, mums after birth, young children, acute discharges who need support around wound care, clients with mental health, addictions, disabilities, older adults, dying and palliative care. Thinks it’s now too broad now because the type of discharges are very complex, almost providing a hospital type care within the community. Sláinte Care- clients being discharged into the community. Eileen doesn’t think this can happen until they had sufficient resources to match the numbers being discharged to them, she needs an increased budget. City north west is an area of great disadvantage there are 20 DEDs (Electoral Divisions) in it 15 of which are designated as disadvantaged or very disadvantaged. Lots of complexities around parenting. This leads to children with behavioural issues. Eileen is always advocating for early interventions. Role of PHN was always health promotion and illness prevention. More hands on now doing clinical, assessments, referrals, ordering supplies, reviewing things. So what was formerly the PHN’s main role is no longer their main role. Early intervention is key, it would be very beneficial. In the city northwest area there are many non-statutory bodies area-based childhood programme, (Atlantic Philanthropy was supporting this for a while now it’s Tusla) they support families, parents, teachers, childcare workers increasing capacity around infant mental health. Springboard run by Tusla which support families. “Niche” in Hollyhill a family support agencies, and Barnardos as well. Eileen is involved with all of them in child welfare and protection. Would like to get the issues resolved at child welfare stage. Everyone that comes to work here gets great experience but no one stays for very long. Lost two staff in April. 1.5 staff were on maternity leave and not replaces and another 2 going on maternity leave. |
0.33.06 - 0.35.30 |
Turnover of Staff Turnover due to the challenging work. Often chasing people, offering them appointments to bring their children, but they don’t. When you go back they won’t answer the door, or their phone, and change their phone number, or don’t tell you that they’ve moved house. Not all people they deal with are like that but a core group are because they have had no parenting themselves and the cycle continues of disadvantage, poverty, poor education and housing, unemployment. “Entitlement stage” their parents were entitled to everything. In PHN there is no entitlement which they try to get across. Eileen thinks that people born and reared in poverty and with poor parenting have no chance of catching up because they don’t realise the level they are at. Eileen doesn’t know where to break that cycle though she thinks that PHN plays some role. Places in Dublin and Limerick also have areas of disadvantage. Eileen think that sometimes her staff give people what they think the people need but it may not be what they really need and sometimes the staff can’t get that information from people. It’s all about building relationships but it’s hard to build that relationship when people don’t want what you have to offer people. |
0.35.30 - 0.40.25 |
Child Development Problems- Multiple Causes, Complex Solutions Should they ensure that all children in primary school are fed? Or is that too late? An infant mental health specialist with young Knocknaheeny area child-based programme 0 to 2 years is pivotal in nurturing and bonding and if it doesn’t happen children end up with low self-esteem or behavioural problems. These become bigger problems later as the children have not developed skills in coping because they haven’t been shown them. And if it’s not there by age two they miss out on a lot. Ante-natal period classes with Young Knocknaheeny to build a relationship with the mothers when they have their babies which they have to see until they are 5. There are a lot of services for people but sometimes they don’t want to be seen as a target for the services, they don’t want to be seen as different. Eileen was initially shocked by that attitude, someone said “another service being thrown at us” and maybe they were saturated with services and it wasn’t something they wanted at all. If Eileen knew how to break that cycle she would patent it. She read an article by someone in charge of Bessborough- how can we expect young mums to parent a child when they were never shown and they had no role model. How to build trust and build a relationship because they can be very wary and distrustful of services. Parents think that if they don’t do what the PHN says or thinks is right that there could be child protection issues involved because this happened a lot in the past and sometimes a child was removed. But for social workers the last resort is to remove a child- the child as almost always better with the parents from their point of view. Eileen thinks that approach is a bit unusual, especially if there is no bond between parents and the child. Sometimes a child is removed for a period of time, and there are health professional meetings, case conferences, families come together and everything is discussed. Sometimes it doesn’t work but you have to try. In those cases there is a health professional meeting or a case conference meeting and the children go into foster care and maybe go back to the parents after a period. |
0.40.25 - 0.45.40 |
Social and Medical Issues in North Cork Area Most of the moms are single with different partners for the different children. Housing is an issue, expenses for school, dependence on drugs, alcohol, polypharmacy, mental health, self-neglect. A number of clients are alcoholics who come home and expect the HSE to provide services. They can refer clients to the mental health services but the client has to agree to go. And there is a lot of that. Lots of young people with disabilities which she was surprised at she felt she had been very “sheltered”. When she came from North Lee so many people had disabilities or something wrong with a lot of people. The stats are quite high. North Cork is rural but North Lee is exceptional. One third fit into that category. Mental health and addiction issues are shocking. Grandparents are minding grandchildren because their children aren’t capable. She had no exposure to this until she arrived and so she was unprepared for it. Eileen could retire any time she wants but she likes the work but will retire in a few years. She tries to make a difference. |
0.45.40 - 0.49.40
|
Compares Grattan Street to new St Mary’s Primary Care Centre. Car Park issues. Get pleasure from the new building in St Mary’s so different to Grattan Street. When in Grattan Street they loved it and linking in with the team and got stuck in the car park. Eileen had a database with all the cars and numbers and if anyone was in a parking space who wasn’t registered they would get a note on their car. The car park nearly broke their hearts. Eileen was in a 7:20 every morning to get the parking space and would dread having to go anywhere because your space would be gone. When she went there as a novice PHN she didn’t like the outside of the building but once inside she felt comfortable there, and the staff were nice in there. They always knew if someone was sick or had a bereavement. When she left Grattan Street she had a room there but it is now full with other things and incontinence wear. Jokingly blames Sean Higgisson the porter for this. Some of the rooms in Grattan Street are beginning to look neglected and old. Some of the team are not looking forward to moving up to St Mary’s. They are anxious about the move. But many with Eileen were as well before they moved but at least her team are all in the one place now. She feels they are well-settled in St Mary’s now and they like it and she told Sean the porter and Celine in admin this. They’re not really missing Grattan Street. |
0.49.40 - 0.57.13
|
Typical Day in Grattan Street and Changes. Hospital Discharges. Arriving in Grattan Street first it was similar to what she had been used to in North Cork. (North Lee is from Youghal to Macroom) Was in Mayfield for a year. Was in Glanmire St Stephen’s for 2 years. 2012-2019 in Grattan Street. A typical day in Grattan Street was getting there early to park the car to be able to get out quickly. When traffic in Grattan Street became one way it really affected staff in Grattan Street- previously they were able to leave and go up Shandon Street but now they have to turn through narrow streets. Doesn’t feel they were told or consulted about that change. After getting their early she went for a walk because initially she didn’t have a key to the health centre. Walk to the quays, North Main Street into St Francis Church to pray for everyone (and for herself not to kill anyone). Back to Grattan Street, Sean would be there, have coffee, reply to emails, manage staff annual leave, sick leave professional development, pre-discharge meetings. She is on various boards and bodies which entailed various meetings. Would go St Finbarr’s [Hospital] head office once a week. Busy. Trying to find solutions to problems. Would think of something in bed at night but forget it by the time morning comes. Sometimes write a note in the phone and go back to sleep. In Grattan Street working with clients, working through correspondence, going to meetings: multi-disciplinary teams with more views, suggestions and options. Could be about a client having issues with self-neglecting, a client who deteriorated and needed extra supports. Mercy today for pre-discharge meeting for a very complicated case coming home. Previously the person had been discharge and within 36 hours he was found on the floor and the door had to be broken down- required the Gardaí, ambulance, nurse and home help. He refused to go to hospital. The following morning he was unwell again and he was sent to hospital. Now they want to send him home again. Many complexities come from not having next of kin and the nurse shouldn’t have to take on that responsibility. Capacity bill. Not always safe discharges. Reiterates connections with Young Knocknaheeny, Niche, Barnardos, Springboard. Try to link in with other groups and social work but feels they need to focus on their own work. Their cases are too big to be involved. Feels pulled and dragged a lot. As a PHN you are a manager of an area of 3,000 population which isn’t huge but the complexities make it hard. In a rural area there might be a population of about 5,000 but they wouldn’t all be active. |
0.57.13 - 1.01.40 |
Social Aspect Aoife O’Brien is great to get people together, comes up with idea, advertise, follow up, plan order things, get back to people and doesn’t force people and takes photos. Eileen takes pride in the Christmas party and restarting it. It’s the only time they really had events in Grattan Street. Allows you to have fun, eating and relaxing and speaking about plans. Someone made punch but with the change in driving laws and when that woman left they didn’t have it anymore. Lots of young people in Grattan Street now who go out after work to a bar but Eileen wouldn’t have done that. There was a lot of moving or transferring staff and they would do something for them like a lunch. Mixed well with admin, nursing, podiatry, school nurses, ophthalmology. Everyone knew where everyone was. When they came to St Mary’s first in early February (5th & 6th of February after the nurses strike) they really missed the other teams. Expected the other to follow shortly after but they haven’t. When meeting people in the corridor in St Marys there might not be eye contact and they aren’t used to that coming from St Mary’s. Now they are smiling and saying hello. They are integrating into the new building. When people finally come up from Grattan Street it might be easier for them now that Eileen’s team has managed the transition. |
1.01.40 - 1.07.10
|
Everyone loves Grattan Street Some people wanted to leave but only for parking. Grattan Street reversing out and cars double parked on both sides. Saw a lorry bringing in windows for a school extension. People in the school sometimes try to take their spaces. The lorry reversed in- surprised how good a driver he was. Teams close together in Grattan Street but separated now in St Mary’s. Podiatry will come up. Home Support Service is in St Marys. PHN have rooms for clients downstairs. While everyone is in St Mary’s they are separate. They are beginning to get used to all the space. Thinks it’s more productive in St Marys. Sector 4- City Northwest touches on the Mardyke and Western Road a bit but most of it is on the Northside. It made no sense for staff to be based in town and come up to the Northside and then back down. Grattan Street Health Centre is part of Mayfield Sector 3- City North East. So really they were in temporarily lodgings there. In St Mary’s can respond to thinks more quickly, nurses can do their calls more easily. Can’t think of negative things, maybe the room with 20 of the nurses instead of 2 to 5 people. But people are getting used to it. Some health centres have a mix of disciplines but in St Mary’s it’s all nursing which Eileen prefers. Canteen in Grattan Street was homely and functional. But in St Mary’s it’s clinical, not big and equipment is ok but it’s very loud. Eileen goes there when it’s quiet and looks out the window at the trees which has a preservation order on them. |
1.07.10 - 1.11.08
|
Interaction with Surrounding Grattan Street Community Fraught interaction with the surrounding area in Grattan Street to do with the car park. There’s 6 parking spaces for anyone. And the ones at the back wall and the other side area for HSE. There might not be enough space for residents. And HSE staff would try to get in early enough for a space. They had a good relationship with the school [Education Together] until they started taking the HSE parking spaces. Sean had a good relationship with the school and the locals because he would have more dealings with them. Only the back door of people’s houses were connected with the car park their front doors faced elsewhere. There was a hall. And the area in which Grattan Street is located isn’t covered by the PHN area that Eileen was in, it was covered by Mayfield. So Eileen feels they were a bit disconnected from the Marsh. Not much interaction with shops. Raised blood pressure due to the car parking and arguments and they nearly shot each other over it! Eileen told someone that they couldn’t park there because they weren’t working there and she was shocked at the angry verbal abuse she got after it. Sometimes arguments would start badly but in the end they would be smiling and wondering what all the fuss was about. |
1.11.08 - 1.14.18
|
Describe Grattan Street A happy place to work. Liked the building and its peculiarities, its rattling windows. Arguing to get a new window where the bottom part was falling out and tin foil was blocking the gap. In her room the wind was coming in and the window wasn’t replaced. Bars on the window. And obscure glass so you could only see out when you open the top. Thought that the two stairs going to the 2nd floor in Grattan Street was cool when she was there first and the gallery all around and the open space it created. An old quaint building being pushed into something it was never meant to house. Glad to hear that there is talk of people going in there. The gallery made things different. And you could see if someone was waiting for you and have a bit of craic. An opportunistic up and down conversation. Not as easy to catch people in St Mary’s. “We will always have happy memories of Grattan Street. Always. And I’m sure it will become even more embellished with time.” |
1.14.18 - 1.18.30 |
Why do people like Grattan Street? Eileen thinks it’s partly because of the people working there. The building lends itself to that. They got something good from the building. When you entered the building there were no lights on you had to go to the reception area to turn them on. One morning she heard something flush when she went in. She locked herself in her office. And called Sean (Higgisson the porter) who said the toilet just flushed itself- another peculiarity. Sometimes people were difficult in Grattan Street and Sean was calm and dealt with it. Being near town gave you lots of options for places to go which isn’t the case in St Marys. Someone could come in shouting and verbally abusive and demanding to see someone. Someone collapsed once and Sean had to get him to the Mercy Hospital in wheelchair. Try to diffuse the difficult person- Sean would be good at that and might get someone else to assist. Sean gives a relaxed attitude and talks to people. He would keep it from escalating. Eileen thinks she might not be so calm! |
1.18.30 - 1.20.02
|
Varying Views of Grattan Street Medical Centre Other people who came to Grattan Street may see it as shabby, or somewhere they didn’t get what they wanted. Or there was no proper queue or waiting too long for something. They might have had trouble parking. Another person might think it’s convenient in the city centre and an interesting unusual space. “But they won’t ever see it the way we saw it. We felt we owned it. Or it owned us, you know that kind of way. Sometimes it just felt like something wrapped around you.” Felt good there. “Everyone loves Grattan Street. Put that on my epitaph.” |
1.20.02 - 1.21.00
|
Definition of Patients and Clients Call people clients when working with them in the community. Patients in the hospital. Clients because they have some need but it is not always an illness. It’s always been like that in the community setting. |
1.21.00 - 1.23.15
|
Anything you would change about Grattan Street besides the carpark? Could have been painted. Paint the door. Make it more attractive people to get a better sense of the place before entering. Improve the exterior to make people aware they were going someplace nice. The building needs it. Down and outs sleep out the back of it so there is lots of rubbish out there. Some clear glass in the office and take away the bars. Improve the canteen a bit. St Marys is fresh, new and practical. Grattan Street not much can be done with it. |
1.23.15 - 1.24.28
|
Unexpected Responsibilities and Workload Eileen didn’t expect when she started out to be working so hard and carrying so many responsibilities at the age she is now. There was no reflection on where you were going at the time she started. She always wanted to work in community not hospital. |
1.24.28 - 1.26.15
|
Future of Grattan Street Would like to see it occupied and whoever was in there was happy in there and the building was looked after. Nearly better to close off the car park. Eileen thinks it can never be sold off. And she would like services to be in there because it is an ideal central location. H111 European Health Insurance Card is done in Grattan Street. There’s a box shaped reception which was thrown up and is not in keeping with the building she would like to see that changed. Plaster on the walls. Holes in the ceiling. |
1.26.15 - 1.29.13
|
Vaccines, School Nurse, Grattan Street Ghost. Vaccines- had to mind the fridges when she was a schools nurse. School nurses had to deal with AMO Area Medical Officer now called Community Medical Doctors. The room the fridges were in had no air-conditioning or coolant and sometimes the temperature would get too high. As a school nurse she would have to take the vaccines in and out and maintain the cold chain in the transfer of the vaccines. In St Mary’s there will be a cold room for those fridges. Never saw the ghost. And she had plenty of time to appear when she was there alone in the morning. Grattan Street was special. Met people with different problems. Outro. Interview ends. |
Recounts early years in the Grattan Street Dispensary building where his father was the pharmacist.
Describes growing up on the Mardyke close to St Joseph’s School and Presentation Brothers School which he attended. Talks about the violence of corporal punishment.
His mother ran a guesthouse in the family home, including preparing all the meals for the customers who were mostly university students and commercial travellers with their own cars which was rare.
Remembers summer holidays on a cousin’s farm.
Describes his time in University College Cork as the most important in his life. Discusses student societies, debating and the university grounds.
Outlines his working life in pensions, career direction, marriage as well as living accommodation.
Expresses his hopes for building developments in Cork and the emerging opportunities of remote working there.
Reflects on how his background has formed his outlook on life.
Describes cycling to collect cream from Bradleys Dairy on Sheare’s Street in an Andrews Kruschen Salts jar. Also mentions his distaste for tripe and drisheen.
Talks about a hierarchy of respectability in Cork based on types of clothing, with shawlies being the lowest rank.
Discusses Cork dancehalls in the 1960s including UCC, the Arcadia and the people who organised them.
]]>Don recalls his entrepreneurial great-aunt who owned the Grand Hotel in Fermoy.
Recounts early years in the Grattan Street Dispensary building where his father was the pharmacist.
Describes growing up on the Mardyke close to St Joseph’s School and Presentation Brothers School which he attended. Talks about the violence of corporal punishment.
His mother ran a guesthouse in the family home, including preparing all the meals for the customers who were mostly university students and commercial travellers with their own cars which was rare.
Remembers summer holidays on a cousin’s farm.
Describes his time in University College Cork as the most important in his life. Discusses student societies, debating and the university grounds.
Outlines his working life in pensions, career direction, marriage as well as living accommodation.
Expresses his hopes for building developments in Cork and the emerging opportunities of remote working there.
Reflects on how his background has formed his outlook on life.
Describes cycling to collect cream from Bradleys Dairy on Sheare’s Street in an Andrews Kruschen Salts jar. Also mentions his distaste for tripe and drisheen.
Talks about a hierarchy of respectability in Cork based on types of clothing, with shawlies being the lowest rank.
Discusses Cork dancehalls in the 1960s including UCC, the Arcadia and the people who organised them.
0.00.00 - 0.00.19 |
intro |
0.00.19 - 0.00.00 |
Earliest Memory Playing Fermoy In Fermoy about 3 years old playing under a table in a big room. His grand-aunt Julie O’Connor known as Auntie Jess owned the Grand Hotel in Fermoy. She bought the hotel. She was an entrepreneur. She was on good terms with the clergy. She didn’t like his name Donal and called him Don which stuck. She only had one eye, she wore a false eye. |
0.02.41 - 0.03.24 |
Where he lived growing up Initially grew up in Grattan Street Moved to Mardyke when mother bought house in 1949 and he stayed there until 22 when he went to Dublin. |
0.03.24 - 0.07.13 |
Living in Grattan Street Dispensary & Children’s Games Was told that he played with a girl and a pram. Played gobs with local children. Gobs: throwing stones up and caught them on the back of your hand. Remembers playing with bricks on the stairs in Grattan Street. |
0.04.40 - 0.06.27 |
Pharmacist Father House had three bedrooms. Maybe had a kitchen and at least another room downstairs. Assumes there was an indoor bathroom was unusual. Father was a pharmacist, met Don’s mother in Fermoy where he trained and they got married in Mallow. He was from Quilty in County Clare and they moved there after living for a while in Fermoy. He opened his own business in Clare- wasn’t a good businessman- he wasn’t good at getting patients to pay for their medicines and medications. He got a job as the pharmacist in Grattan Street in Cork city. |
0.06.27 - 0.07.46 |
Description of Father & Spanish Flu Vague memory of father. Not very tall. Kind man. Good singer and piano player. Father went to Rockwell College where he caught Spanish flu which stunted his growth at around 5 foot 6. His name was John or J.J and also known as Sean. |
0.07.46 - 0.10.14 |
Family & School His father stopped working in Grattan Street and there were issues between him and Don’s mother so they split up. Moved to Mardyke when mother bought house in 1949 and he stayed there until 22 when he went to Dublin Went to St Joseph’s school on the Mardyke. He is said to have run home twice from school on first day. Only knew of one person with a car, a teacher called Bob Tanner. “bob” was slang for shilling and “tanner” was slang for sixpence so he was known as “One and Sixpence”. He had an old ‘bockety’ Ford which holes in the floor through which you could see the road. Lots of children from the Marsh area- Sheare Street, Grattan Street etc. would have gone there. Don will be collecting his grandson after the interview and there will be lots of cars and no brothers teaching in the school. |
0.10.14 - 0.12.20 |
Violence & kindness of different Presentation Brothers in School Didn’t like the brothers, “they were brutes” except for a few kindly ones. He doesn’t like authority. Went to Presentation Brothers Secondary school where the lay teachers were more humane. The brothers were physically violent. Don expresses surprise that although one hears court cases about brothers sexually assaulting pupils that he hasn’t heard ones relating to physical assault. One very nice, good man was Brother Pascal who was very musical. He ran an accordion ban, a flageolet band (woodwind instrument) and a choir. Pascal ended up teaching deaf pupils in Greenmount. He didn’t like anything about school. |
0.12.20 - 0.14.40 |
Childhood Games & Local Area Got up to mischief outside school. Lots of children in the Mardyke at the time who he played with. House he grew up in was beside Fitzgerald’s Park where he could play. They played football, cowboys and Indians, Robin Hood and climbing trees. He grew up surrounded by famous sports people including Noel Cantwell who has an avenue named after him who captained Manchester United. Tommy Kiernan and Barry McGann played rugby for Ireland. He grew up near Sundays Well Tennis Club, Cork Cricket Club, university playing fields, and the public baths. And he can’t play any of those sports. |
0.14.40 - 0.19.07 |
Description of Mother & her Guesthouse Mother came from outside Youghal from a farm. Later worked with his grand aunt in Fermoy. Small lady. Ran her house as a guesthouse. She bought the house intending to keep students. Lots of commercial travellers stayed there and tourists in the summer. His 2 sisters sent to boarding school Loreto Convent Fermoy where his mother had gone. She didn’t have a great sense of humour. Her main concern was providing for them. She lived to be 97. Commercial travellers were salesmen who called on retail shops to get goods into the shop. Recalls a commercial traveller called Mackintosh for Dell Comics, and he had stacks of comics in the van and he gave one of each to Don. There was one for keys, fire alarms. Often colourful characters who had their own cars. Guests also included chauffeurs who drove rich Americans around Ireland. The Americans may have stayed in the Metropole Hotel. The cars were big Austin Princesses like a Rolls Royce and they were parked on the Mardyke and were never damaged. He got a spin in them. |
0.19.07 - 0.24.09 |
Home Life: Guests, Food & Cooking, Description of the House, Card-playing Felt like the house wasn’t theirs because there were always strangers in the house. Always 4 or 5 students staying with them. When older he got to know the students. Grew up on his own and still describes himself as a recluse. Mother cooked breakfast and tea but not a midday meal. She was a very good cook. Did all her own baking. Basic meals: eggs for breakfast. A fry in the evening. Chips were made on a Friday which were cooked in lard and put in brown paper. Whiting fish which he hated on a Friday as meat wasn’t allowed for practicing Catholics. They ate in kitchen while the guests ate in the dining room. When the guests weren’t eating it became the sitting room. Fire lighting always in the sitting room. It was like a game of whist always moving tables. His mother was a very good card player they played at Christmastime when her friends Elsie and Liam who were teacher came to visit. They used to play the card game 110. Elsie used to pick up cards from the discard pile of cards which was a form of cheating but she was never prevented from doing it. For a small house it was very busy. Don still owns the house. |
0.24.09 - 0.25.41 |
Don’s Holidays and his Mother’s Holidays Mother took a few days off around September where she stayed with an unmarried cousin Maureen Hennessey in Sandycove Dun Laoghaire. She also visited Elsie and Liam in Malahide. Describes travelling from north Dublin to South Dublin as a great distance. He was sent to an uncle and aunt during the summer for a holiday. Had cousins around his age living on the farm his mother grew up in where he stayed on holidays. His uncle had a buckrake which had spikes and was attached to the back of the tractor. His uncle put straw on it and put the children on the straw and he drove the tractor so they were swung from side to side. Don doesn’t think this was very safe. Remembers the summers as hot and sunny. |
0.25.41 - 0.29.21 |
University and Debating Went to UCC in 1963 for a 3 year Commerce degree. Worked in Cork briefly and then in a Canadian merchant bank for 3 years in Dublin. And then he came back to Cork. UCC was the most important time in his life. Gained confidence and met lots of people. Total freedom compared to school. Met his wife there. Was not a great student he says. Was involved in debating which allowed him contact with other universities. Recalls debating against Michael D. Higgins. Thinks he began university later having started working first possibly in the ESB. |
0.29.21 - 0.35.55 |
UCC: The debating Society, Study, Lecturer’s Gowns, Rules and grounds and gardens There was a Commerce Society. The Philosophical Society of “philosoph” was the big one. It had people from every faculty where they “talked rubbish”. Once won the speaker of the year award. The debates were held on Saturday night. The auditor of the philosoph was Oliver Lyons who was a teacher in Carrigtouhil later once said “I am the philosophical Society” in response to a challenge to the rules. Don had about 50 in his class. A son of his did Commerce with 300 in his class. Doesn’t think they had to study as hard back then. First lecture the dean came in late wearing a white linen jacket and panama hat, a famous economist John Busteed. He expected them to do some work but “not as hard as the little girls in Woolworths”. When you registered in UCC you met the registrar and the president. Don was called mister for the first time. The president told him to work hard. All lecturers and professors wore gowns. Recalls the nicely cut grey suit of the president. RAG week was a very tame event compared at the time. In his 2nd year a classmate said that the new first years were too pushy and they should have been more humble. There was a rule that you couldn’t walk on the grass on the Quad and that girls were not allowed to lie on the grass anywhere. The lower grounds were wild and had subtropical plants, where the Glucksman is now and it’s more tamed. He preferred it wild. |
0.35.55 - 0.38.25 |
Work, Marriage, Honeymoon Worked in Cork for 9 months then moved to Dublin. Had a flat in Clyde Rd. graduated 1966 and married his wife Deirdre on Monday 14th August 1967, went to Achill for their honeymoon. Stayed a few nights in Butler Arms Hotel in Waterville and stopped in Limerick in the Royal or the George Hotel. They didn’t realise there were any buses in Limerick! When she arrived back in the flat in Dublin there were 4 quasi-empty milk bottles in the sink! They are still married after 53 years.
|
0.38.25 - 0.41.22 |
Pensions Work in Dublin Worked with Royal Trust Company subsequently Royal Trust Bank. They were money managers. Pioneered the area of privately invested pension funds, until that time insurance companies dominated the market. Spent his life working in pensions because of that experience. They expanded to merchant banker and money market transactions. He learned a lot although only peripherally involved- much more than he learned in UCC. He didn’t like his new boss and left they job because of him- is not sure it was the best decision. Flat in Clyde Rd and also bought a house in Dublin with the aid of a company loan. Mortgage interest rates were at 8% or 9% and his was 4% or so. Paid £5,500 for the house and sold it a year later for £6,500. Ballinclea Heights in Killiney. |
0.41.22 - 0.43.15 |
Living Accommodation in Cork & Buying Houses Rented a place behind Oriel Court Hotel in Ballincollig. The big house and outhouses had been converted into flats. They rented what had been the stables. Then bought a house in the city centre of Cork on Western Road which they sold and bought another house further up Western Road which was also sold and they now live in Shanakiel where they are for 34 years. They nearly forgot the baby when they were moving house!
|
0.43.15 - 0.45.51 |
Hopes for Cork development Change in development in Cork over the years. He says he doesn’t meet people in Cork city in the way he used to. Is looking forward to the new changes in the city on the quays and docks which over the next decade will be huge he thinks. He would look to see the equivalent of Dublin’s financial centre in Cork. McCarthy from Fexco said he wouldn’t move from Killorglin to Dublin because it doesn’t have scenery. Believes it’s possible for people to work from anywhere now. Would also like to see Cork have an IT hub. |
0.45.51 - 0.49.10 |
Grattan Street Dispensary for Weddings Dispensary on Grattan Street he doesn’t know what happened to it. Although he was back in the building for a wedding. Never got to go back and look inside. He was married in Honan chapel which had more appeal to him than a room in the old dispensary. Recalls a cut-stone building facing onto Grattan Street. Never remembers being inside the dispensary. Left the dispensary when he was 3 years old. In St Josephs School he met boys from Sheares Street and Paul Street but doesn’t think they had the opportunity to go to university. |
0.49.10 - 0.50.36 |
Outlook and reflection on life Raised as an only child and glad that his own children have been raised differently. Adamant after his own childhood that he would look after his own children as best he could. Believes that his own background gave him a sense of insecurity and hunger which drove him to find security. Retired early and was involved in a number of business deals of varying success.
|
0.50.36 - 0.52.34 |
Grattan Street: Dairy, medicine and cream Recalls Grattan Street being busy and having tenement houses. There was a dairy on each end of Grattan St. Bradleys dairy at Sheares Street end and another one at the Kyle St end. It was all horse drawn carriages- few cars and lorries. The dairy sold butter. Was sent on his bicycle with an Andrews Kruschen Salts jar. His mother took the Kruschen salts every day as medicine. It was a small brown bottle half size of beer bottle with screw on top, with grease proof paper to prevent leakage. The jar was for cream which cost sixpence. They also sold butter pats but they didn’t buy butter there.
|
0.52.34 - 00.54.44 |
Tripe and Drisheen His mother never cooked tripe and drisheen. Tried them since and didn’t like. Drisheen “the most gelatinous horrible stuff”. Thinks tripe should be nice with onions and milk.
His mother told a story that after giving birth she was confined to bed for weeks in a nursing home in Fermoy and as a special treat the nun in charge gave her tripe and his mother broke down in tears because she couldn’t eat it. Don knows men who were reared on tripe and drisheen. Likes black pudding. Has eaten haggis which he liked the taste of. He asked what Haggis was and was told that he didn’t want to know! |
0.54.44 - 0.55.06 |
Pawn Shops and Lack of Money Didn’t have any dealings with pawn shops that he knew of even though there wasn’t much money around. |
0.55.06 - 0.57.36 |
Coal Quay, Shawlies Status and Respectability Recalls the Coal Quay and the shawlies, which he suggests was not a complimentary name. Discusses how he read that there were degrees of respectability or status. At the bottom were shawlies, then women who wore coats and scarves, then women with coats and hat, and above that were women who wore costumes and hats. Says he wasn’t aware of that at the time. He subsequently saw a clip of the Coal Quay on television where a women wearing a hat and coat turned her back to avoid being recorded as being in the Coal Quay Mentions Katty Barry’s pub where crubeens were sold at closing time. Though he was “wild enough” in college he didn’t drink until he left college and began to work.
|
0.57.36 -1.01.02 |
Cork Dancehalls 1960s Recalls the Main Rest in UCC which transformed into a dancehall one night a week, and everyone went to “The Rest”. Robin Power (who trained as a dentist but became an entrepreneur) started a dance in the Arcadia known as The Dinosaurs, which he thinks was on Thursday or Friday night which everyone wanted to attend if they had enough money. A typical student might have a bicycle but at the time Robin Flower had an Alfa Romeo! Brought big Irish bands there like Sandy Shaw. Arcadia was a designed ballroom with a mirrored disco ball which made it more romantic and exotic. The rest closed at 11pm and the Arcadia at 12 midnight. He met a women from Ballinlough who said she walked home from the Arcadia late at night because it was so safe back then, but she was afraid of seeing a ghost! That’s how innocent things were. The Arcadia still stands it is student accommodation now across from Kent train station. |
1.01.02 - 1.01.10 |
Outro |
Describes her grandmother who ran a shop on Churchfield Green. Her grandmother was a confidante to many locals. Her grandmother eventually moved into their family home, where Aoife describes how she cooked tripe and drisheen. Aoife also speaks about a typical Christmas day with her family and neighbours visiting.
Recalls her school days and subsequent courses and jobs before her clerical officer role in Grattan Street, taking over her sister’s role.
Remembers her first experiences of Grattan Street as a child patient wanting to get glasses. Is reluctant to leave Grattan Street as she has so many memories there.
Explains her work in administration for the schools vaccination programme. Mentions rare cases of vaccine hesitancy or refusal.
Describes the quirky character of the Grattan Street Medical Centre building and as a happy place to work despite its defects. It’s location in the centre of the city is also beneficial.
Aoife talks about her role organising social events for the medical centre staff- Christmas parties and leaving parties. Hope to maintain these traditions when the staff move to St Mary’s Health Campus Gurranabraher.
Recalls stories from Grattan Street including wasps, pigeons, floods, characters and the boiler.
]]>Aoife describes growing up on the Northside near Cathedral Road and playing games with her friends.
Describes her grandmother who ran a shop on Churchfield Green. Her grandmother was a confidante to many locals. Her grandmother eventually moved into their family home, where Aoife describes how she cooked tripe and drisheen. Aoife also speaks about a typical Christmas day with her family and neighbours visiting.
Recalls her school days and subsequent courses and jobs before her clerical officer role in Grattan Street, taking over her sister’s role.
Remembers her first experiences of Grattan Street as a child patient wanting to get glasses. Is reluctant to leave Grattan Street as she has so many memories there.
Explains her work in administration for the schools vaccination programme. Mentions rare cases of vaccine hesitancy or refusal.
Describes the quirky character of the Grattan Street Medical Centre building and as a happy place to work despite its defects. It’s location in the centre of the city is also beneficial.
Aoife talks about her role organising social events for the medical centre staff- Christmas parties and leaving parties. Hope to maintain these traditions when the staff move to St Mary’s Health Campus Gurranabraher.
Recalls stories from Grattan Street including wasps, pigeons, floods, characters and the boiler.
0.00.00 - 0.00.52
|
Role in Grattan Street Medical Centre Clerical Officer in Grattan Street Medical Centre for 18/19 years. From Cathedral Road originally. Only Northsider working in Grattan Street Medical Centre! |
0.00.52 - 0.02.44
|
Background, Childhood and Games Grew up in cul-de-sac terrace called School Avenue. Primary school: St Vincent’s. Games: “piggy”, skipping ropes. Convinced her friends that there were fairies in trees by her house. Took over older sister Sinead’s job in Grattan Street Medical Centre. They played together with Sinead as the teacher and Aoife as the student in their grandmother’s room using chalk which got on grandmother’s clothes and she never knew when it came from. Started school with boys & girls she was friends with and still friends with many of them today. |
0.02.44 - 0.03.37
|
Childhood Games: Piggy Describes the game how it’s made and its rules (also known as hopscotch or pickey) chalk on the road and use a shoe polish tin. Very popular where Aoife was from. |
0.03.37 - 0.05.06 |
Grand Mother’s shop on Churchfield Green. Grandmother’s surname was Stephens and people who know Aoife from the shop know her as Aoife Stephens. Had friends up near the shop. Shop closed 20 years ago. Her dad drove her and siblings from school to the shop after school. Her mom worked up there. Aoife and her friend Paula went to the “Pound Shop” or collected old wool from people’s houses to make ponytails in imitation of Like “Rainbow Brite Dolls”. |
0.05.06 - 0.07.37
|
Grandmother’s Shop- description, shopping notes, fun Shop was hub of activity. Customers sent up notes with the items they wanted. Children played hiding in fridges. “Light-fingered”- as children they took things from the shop. It was a grocery shop selling: milk, bread, cold meats, sweets, cigarettes. Recalls a funny incident when her cousin Leonard got a note which had “S. Towels” meaning sanitary towels but he asked his dad “what are stowels?” |
0.07.37 - 0.13.23
|
Grandmother: Description, her Funeral, Summer Holidays with her, Christmas Day, Caring for others, Cooking Tripe and Drisheen Aoife thought her grandmother wasn’t patient because she had a quick tongue. Now looking back she thinks she was very patient. Aoife’s sister went to live with their grandmother when granddad died. Used to stay in caravans down in Youghal. Eventually they rented a house from a woman called Maureen. About 13 children stayed there in Youghal with grandmother for the summer. Grandmother doted on all of them. At her funeral people had very fond memories of her. She was an agony aunt and confidante. A neighbour could chat in the shop for 3 hours with her. Family always went to grandmother’s house for Christmas Day. When grandmother sold the house she came to live with Aoife’s family and the rest of the family came to them for Christmas. She cooked tripe and drisheen for Aoife’s dad who worked nights in Irish Steel. Grandmother loved feeding people. Steak and gravy could be cooked in the morning so Aoife’s mom only had to heat it up. “The smell alone would turn me off” the tripe and drisheen. “Fairly gruesome now to be honest”. “she knew by my face not to even ask” if Aoife wanted to taste any. |
0.13.23 - 0.14.55
|
Christmas Day Start 10am. Aoife’s parents & her 3 sisters. Uncle Jim now deceased. Aunt Geraldine. Grandmother had 2 girls and 2 boys. Neighbours would call in. Everyone in a small kitchen. It was the hub of the family. Fighting over toys and batteries. |
0.14.55 - 0.16.53
|
School Enjoyed it. As admin for the vaccinations department in Grattan Street Medical Centre she has goes back to St Vincent’s twice a year for vaccines: HPV (human papillomavirus), Men C (meningitis C) and Tdap (tetanus and low dose diphtheria and low dose pertussis (whooping cough) booster). School still looks and smells the same. Saw her picture on the wall sitting next to two girls who she is still best friends with now. Liked the subjects Art, French and Business Organisation (“Biz Org”). |
0.16.53 - 0.20.11
|
After School: Courses and Jobs Did a secretarial course in Terence MacSwiney Community College and a City and Guilds Course. Work experience in solicitor’s office in Washington Street doing dictation and typing but felt a little bit like it was over her head. Worked in Dovertron Electronics in Dublin Hill which had the contract for the Sky Box where she worked for 6 months. Worked in Bourns Electronics: 8 months soldering. Saturday job in a butchers in North Main Street- she hated smell of meat lasted 3 Saturdays! Handed in CV to line manager and staff officers in HSE. Offered job 2 weeks after the interview. Feels like Grattan Street Medical Centre won’t let her go. Feels like part of the furniture. The secretarial skills course she took included: computer skills, typing, floppy disks, word processing, dictation, typing, telephone manner, |
0.20.11 - 0.22.31
|
Recalls Grattan Street when visiting her sister before working there Aoife used to call into Grattan Street Medical Centre to visit her sister who worked there. She attended Michael O’Sullivan in the eye clinic when she was in school. She was familiar with the building. It is strange to be working in the building where she had been as a patient. There was a school nurse who she was afraid of and Aoife became her secretary. Smoking: Canteen was halved at the time and smokers were on one side of it. People could smoke in their offices. She stepped into her sister’s job. She felt very welcomed. Aoife says that she doesn’t take direction very well, she prefers to do things her way. Her sister was very particular. |
0.22.31 - 0.25.00
|
Memories as a Patient- and pretending to need glasses! Dark room, waiting to be called. As a child she was desperate to get glasses and braces. She used take silver foil from cigarette packets to put around teeth to imitate braces. She wore her grandfather’s glasses which had thick lenses “like jam jars” in the hope that she herself would need to wear glasses. She told Dr (Michael) O’Sullivan that she couldn’t see much of the (eye-test) board. Later on, after a year or two working in Grattan Street Medical Centre, she discovered that she did need glasses. |
0.25.00 - 0.26.23
|
Difficult to leave Grattan Street Medical Centre Sister loved Grattan Street Medical Centre and was heartbroken to leave. Aoife has been in her office since March 2001. In facy she has been there longer than she has been in her own home. “My whole life story is been in the walls”. Leaving Grattan Street Medical Centre is tough for her and some of the others working there. |
0.26.23 - 0.32.57
|
Description of Role and duties Every child in junior infants is offered a vision check MMR, booster vaccination and senior infant child is offered hearing check. Aoife and Síle (Sheila?) in Grattan Street Medical Centre cover the North Lee area from Macroom to Youghal, not the city, Glounthaune, Carrigtwohill, Cobh, Midleton area. Aoife works from the city to east Cork, there’s a very big workload so she must be organised. It’s a very rewarding job. It requires building a rapport with primary schools and secretaries. As part of her work she needs to: send out forms to 58 primary schools and get packs ready for the schools and all the students and get the forms back by courier. The form have to be sorted based on the vaccination date schedule and people removed from the list if they refuse the vaccine. They also check that children weren’t vaccinated before eg. a “repeat student” (a student repeating a class or year) or maybe the student has lived in another country where they were vaccinated so that must be followed up. They are almost busier in the summer months because the details of every child that has been vaccinated must be inputted into the system. Aoife gets called a lot because she has been in Grattan Street Health Centre for so long that she has many answers to questions, for instance she buys all of the stationery for the building. The computer system has changed in the last few years, it’s now a national system. Previously there was one system for Cork and Kerry but a different one for Galway etc. The new system is more time consuming at present but will be easier in the long run. Cards on the database. Notes written on the cards which are kept as well. |
0.32.57 - 0.36.55
|
Vaccinations in Secondary Schools Aoife goes to secondary schools providing administrative support as part of the vaccine programme. Visits a school twice: once for 1st dose of HPV and Men C and then 2nd dose of HPV and the Tdap. Boys aren’t given HPV at present but they will next year (2020) which will make things very busy. Either Aoife brings the forms or the AMO Area Medical Officer will. Sometimes the school secretary sends 4th years (fourth year /transition year students) to help them. Checks that the students have the right consent forms. Ensures that the students get back to class after waiting 15 minutes after the vaccination. First time the students have been at an appointment or vaccination without a parent. A bit of nerves from them. Tdap is Tetannus. Men C for meningitis. HPV the cervical cancer vaccine. Aoife says that nobody wants to get a vaccine but generally it’s fine. |
0.36.55 - 0.40.30
|
Rare cases of people refusing vaccines and possible reasons why Not many people refuse the vaccinations. Some consent forms are confusing for people, especially if English is not their first languages. Aoife sees form where people sign to accept and refuse a vaccination so those have to be cleared up. When a child is vaccinated a parent has to be present. People refuse vaccines for personal reasons- don’t agree with them or have never taken them and won’t start now. Aoife mentions the controversy around the MMR but says that she cannot get involved as an admin. If she or a parent is unsure about something there is a doctor on call to answer any questions re vaccines. |
0.40.30 - 0.42.52
|
The Building itself in Grattan Street Medical Centre Aoife thinks that the Grattan Street Medical Centre building has character, it is quirky. It is not clinical like you think a medical centre might be. “There’s probably music in the walls of this building”, “It’s a happy building”. The roof leaks, door hinges break, things crack and things break. She has shared the office with the same girl for a few years and they will be separated when they leave. They know when to talk to each other or leave each other alone. Pigeon poo has come down from the ceiling onto people. |
0.42.52 - 0.46.30
|
Neighbourhood around Grattan Street Medical Centre So near town. On lunch can go to the bank. Few houses that live around them know them. Car park has been a source of hatred because so many use it and the school as well. No point in falling out with staff or neighbours over cars. A few people “fond of the drink” would come into the building there was never trouble there were always characters about the area. Could find people sleeping rough at the side of the building. Will miss the location. Know the people in the local shops and chemists with whom she’s built up relationships. Goes to the furniture shop on North Main Street, they ask when she’s leaving Grattan Street Medical Centre and she says “don’t mention the war! Just don’t talk about it because I can’t talk about it.” Feels it’s the end of an era and it’s sad. |
0.46.30 - 0.50.41
|
Moving to St Mary’s Primary Care Centre Gurranbraher Aoife’s workplace is moving to the old orthopaedic hospital now the St Mary’s Primary Care Centre in Gurranabraher. She feels institutionalised being in Grattan Street Medical Centre so long. Aoife has organised social aspect of Grattan Street Medical Centre eg. the Christmas party and lunch parties for people leaving. She even once served lunch after she had made the orders. It’s like a family away from home. There’s about 50 staff but never there at the same time. GPs, mental health, public health nursing, dental will all be up in St Mary’s. Aoife wonders about how they will keep the soul of Grattan Street Medical Centre when they move. Some people are delighted to be moving to a new building. But for Aoife it’s the people that make it. Change is good even though it’s scary. Will ensure they still do nights out, lunches, Christmas events. Wants to keep something about Grattan Street Medical Centre as well. |
0.50.41 - 0.54.30
|
Social Aspects of Grattan Street Medical Centre Tradition before Christmas breakup day bring some food to the canteen between 12:30-2:30 big lunch in canteen. A feast- people make the effort. Aoife puts Christmas music on an old CD player. Some people play instruments eg. Violin. Party night at the airport hotel, plays. You can’t please everyone- you’ll never get the date right or the venue right. Takes lots of patience and organisation to do the social events. Recommends that people pay for the meal beforehand and she gives the restaurant the money and then everyone pays for everything extra themselves. |
0.54.30 - 0.56.45
|
Organising Social Events and responsibility for money People think when you work for HSE they may think you get subsidised nights out. Mindful that she’s handling other people’s money. Bad snow one Christmas and only 2 members of staff made it to the party in Oriel House Ballincollig. There was no refund and that may have affected the turnout the next years. |
0.56.45 - 0.59.20
|
Stories from Grattan Street Wasps coming through the decorative vents in the ceiling one year. Leaks in the roof. Boiler broke down and Aoife spotted smoke on the way to work. Flooding prevented staff from getting to work in Grattan Street. Professor Drumm (Brendan Drumm) head of HSE was visiting and there was new cutlery arrived and lots of scones from Duggan’s cake shop around the corner. Aoife was giving the scones to people as they were leaving even Prof Drumm. |
0.59.20 - 1.04.00
|
Assumptions about the HSE Aoife has a pensionable job and works hard for it. And HSE is in the news a lot, eg the cervical test issues. But Aoife can only account for the work she does. Elderly people would always ask her the same two questions; can you get me a medical card and can you get me glasses? Welfare officers used to be downstairs in Grattan Street Medical Centre there could be an array of different characters. Sometimes there would be uproar with someone trying to skip the queue for the welfare officer. Gone to look at the style in weddings in the registry office in the front of the building. First gay marriage in Cork in the registry office. Everyone gets on there’s never been a major falling out between staff. Nice, friendly place to work even though shabby. Taken phone calls from elderly people who are looking for a different department and Aoife goes out of her way to help them. |
1.04.00 - 1.06.39
|
Crimes and Old Dispensary Doctor’s handbag was taken and the thief got disorientated ran into the clinic room not out front door and dropped his mobile phone. Someone covered Sean (the porter’s) duties and a laptop was stolen. Aoife’s car was broken into one day. People had a misconception that Grattan Street Medical Centre was the old dispensary that there was drugs there. Only thing they could get was head lice lotion, bandages. Says the building belonged to the Mormons [means Quakers] who gave it to HSE to help the poor of Cork. |
1.06.39 - 1.09.15
|
Accidents: Windows and Filing Cabinet Window have been here for a while. Sign on her office window which said “brrrrrr” and that was the noise the window made when it was windy! The window came away from the fitting one day while opening it. Hit her head into an open filing cabinet after answering phone once. Went to the Mercy (hospital) with the cut which wasn’t able to be stitched. |
1.09.15 - 1.11.13
|
Cars Aoife was youngest in Grattan Street Medical Centre for a long time. “The baby of Grattan Street”. Aoife has a thing for cars. Could go out at lunchtime and could come back with a new car. Went to move her car and someone told her to call her parent to move it because she looked so young. |
1.11.13 - 1.12.00
|
Ghost of Grattan Street Medical Centre Someone had a meeting and something fell and Sean the porter told them it was the ghost. Aoife says the “Ghost is actually real” heartbroken and traumatised by having to leave. |
1.12.00 - 1.12.58
|
Different Dynamics in new Primary Care Centre Dynamics will be different in St Mary’s: won’t all be meeting in the canteen or chatting |
1.12.58 - 1.13.42
|
Changes to job in new Primary Care Centre Currently all files and printer are in her office but in St Mary’s those are all centralised. Expects teething problems. |
1.13.42 - 1.16.32
|
Grattan Street can’t let go of Aoife Would still take the job if she had the time over. Even though Aoife has tried to leave her job a few times something has always happened so that she ended up staying eg. an application form she sent off was blank, once there was a mix up with a panel, another time the job she went for changed from HSE to social work, she lost 6 family members in 6 or 7 years. Always had someone to turn to, support, friendly ear and chat in Grattan Street Medical Centre. “Burning the place down so no one can have it!” |
1.16.32 - 01.18.40
|
Hopes for future of Grattan Street Medical Centre Disability services, child adolescent mental health, eating disorder clinic. Hate to see it turned into apartments. Lovely community- it should be kept. Food after Christmas parties is brought up to Edel House and food brought to Penny Dinners as well. Lots of vulnerable people in the area and lots of elderly people. Hopes podiatry can keep a room for foot care for the elderly with diabetes etc. prefer to see it remain as something that’s giving to the community. |
1.18.40 - 1.19.01
|
Reflections on Grattan Street as Workplace Quirky characters. Fun place to work. |
1.19.01 - 1.19.50
|
Fairies Aoife imagined fairies in the trees at her childhood home. Says she has a great imagination. She perhaps took the idea from The “Secret Garden”, she also loved “The Never Ending Story”. |
1.19.50 - 1.20.01
|
Outro Interview Ends |
Mentions her brother’s physical and mental disability.
Discusses how the smell of tripe and drisheen reminds of father who died when she was young
Recounts her surprise and confusion as a child learning that her mother had remarried and her new husband was to live in the family home.
Outlines the routine on farm including looking after the cows, feeding hens, making bread, and how their dinner changed with seasonal availability of produce.
Talks about her commute to school on a bicycle with sister and standing up to boys who hassled them. Learned some subjects through Irish. Recalls her sister disliking being singled out by teacher because of her attractive eyes and hair.
Remembers seeing a young JP McManus cycling.
Explains how she always considered becoming a nurse. Discusses training and hospital experiences including with nuns. Believes that nurses who had worked abroad had a broader perspective on life.
Outlines the role of the Public Health Nurse which required entering patients’ houses and assisting them with births and deaths. Other features included the need to be able to read emotions and build trust with others and managing your work largely independently.
Describes some memorable cases as a PHN. A family singing Boney M to a baby with a severely lif-limiting condition. Waiting for an ambulance for a man struggling to breathe who lived without electricity. Trying to find help for an older woman struggling with dementia who was being passed from one agency to another without resolution. Fumigating a woman’s accommodation to rid it of fleas, the poor living conditions she found there and the ambivalent reaction of the woman to this health intervention.
Discusses vaccines, their role in eliminating polio and the varying attitudes to vaccination.
Recounts the story of social welfare officers in Grattan Street providing a bed to a woman who promptly sold it on the Coal Quay.
Reflects on the mutually beneficial mix of medical disciplines in Grattan Street and the positive relations between the staff.
Outlines the problems, changes and tensions relating to the car parking situation for Grattan Street staff and others in the surrounding community.
Talks about a child welfare issue where she had to attend court as a PHN.
Speaks of the deficiencies of the Grattan Street building including plaster falling off walls, the waste of paperwork, dry rot, bars on windows and a very out-of-date photocopier. Suggests future uses for the building.
Tells the story of the 2010 floods when the vaccines had to transferred with difficulty to St Finbarr’s Hospital for safety.
Discusses the desirable feature of the new building in Gurranbraher including it having a central meeting area and parking as well as being of a manageable size, accessible and approachable.
Reflects on how she found her career of helping others rewarding.
]]>‘Mary’ grew up on a farm in county Limerick, part of which was rented to a mental hospital to be worked by patients. By interacting with these patients she quickly learned who you could trust and who you couldn’t.
Mentions her brother’s physical and mental disability.
Discusses how the smell of tripe and drisheen reminds of father who died when she was young
Recounts her surprise and confusion as a child learning that her mother had remarried and her new husband was to live in the family home.
Outlines the routine on farm including looking after the cows, feeding hens, making bread, and how their dinner changed with seasonal availability of produce.
Talks about her commute to school on a bicycle with sister and standing up to boys who hassled them. Learned some subjects through Irish. Recalls her sister disliking being singled out by teacher because of her attractive eyes and hair.
Remembers seeing a young JP McManus cycling.
Explains how she always considered becoming a nurse. Discusses training and hospital experiences including with nuns. Believes that nurses who had worked abroad had a broader perspective on life.
Outlines the role of the Public Health Nurse which required entering patients’ houses and assisting them with births and deaths. Other features included the need to be able to read emotions and build trust with others and managing your work largely independently.
Describes some memorable cases as a PHN. A family singing Boney M to a baby with a severely lif-limiting condition. Waiting for an ambulance for a man struggling to breathe who lived without electricity. Trying to find help for an older woman struggling with dementia who was being passed from one agency to another without resolution. Fumigating a woman’s accommodation to rid it of fleas, the poor living conditions she found there and the ambivalent reaction of the woman to this health intervention.
Discusses vaccines, their role in eliminating polio and the varying attitudes to vaccination.
Recounts the story of social welfare officers in Grattan Street providing a bed to a woman who promptly sold it on the Coal Quay.
Reflects on the mutually beneficial mix of medical disciplines in Grattan Street and the positive relations between the staff.
Outlines the problems, changes and tensions relating to the car parking situation for Grattan Street staff and others in the surrounding community.
Talks about a child welfare issue where she had to attend court as a PHN.
Speaks of the deficiencies of the Grattan Street building including plaster falling off walls, the waste of paperwork, dry rot, bars on windows and a very out-of-date photocopier. Suggests future uses for the building.
Tells the story of the 2010 floods when the vaccines had to transferred with difficulty to St Finbarr’s Hospital for safety.
Discusses the desirable feature of the new building in Gurranbraher including it having a central meeting area and parking as well as being of a manageable size, accessible and approachable.
Reflects on how she found her career of helping others rewarding.
0.00.00 - 0.00.25 |
Intro |
0.00.25 - 0.02.29 |
Background Grew up in County Limerick. Dad died when young. Early memory as 3 year old feeding a calf. Trained in St Johns Limerick, midwifery in Glasgow, 1975 went to Australia- Melbourne, Sidney, Brisbane. Returned after a year. Worked in Orthopaedic hospital in Croom, Limerick. Came to Cork, worked in Sarsfield’s Court [Glanmire] in the chest unit. Met a man which is why she stayed in Cork. Nursing involved night-duty and weekends, and "Mary" was thinking forward and did the Public Health Course to become PHN Public Health Nurse- first assignment was Middle Parish based in Grattan Street. |
0.02.29 - 0.05.26 |
Early Memories: Father’s Death, Family Women with tea and USA biscuits. Seeing lines of men in the hay barn and animals coming out- must have been auction of the animals. One older brother mentally & physically handicapped, 2 younger sisters. Mental Hospital St Joseph’s in Limerick rented land from their farm so there was an income coming in without the mother taking sole responsibility for running the farm. It was therapy for the patients working on the farm despite being out in all weather. "Mary" thinks that many of the male patients were there as a result of the war. One man was called Sergeant. "Mary's" family also got fresh vegetables from them. Learning process for them, learned who they could trust and who not- “heightened our awareness of mankind”. Some people were fit and healthy and others had mental issues. |
0.05.26 - 0.09.30 |
Memory of Smell of Tripe Cooking reminds of dad When in St Johns in 2nd year of training ages 19 or 20- she had a memory of a taste and smell. Walking on corridor in 1st floor she got the smell. Found her way to room 8 and a priest was having tripe and drisheen or tripe and packet as it’s called in Limerick. You could get the smell passing Shaws abattoir on the way into Limerick City. They had a hooter which would sound at 1pm and 5pm or 6pm in the evening which could be heard by "Mary" at home. Says that tripe is the lining of a sheep’s stomach. “Villi”- nooks and crannies. Still buys it in the English Market on the left hand-side when you enter from the Grand Parade- and there was someone in front of her in the queue so she wasn’t the only one buying it! Advises opening a window to let the small out! |
0.09.30 - 0.10.35 |
Typical Day on the Farm when Growing up- making bread They had a cow on the farm. Woman called May who helped out their mother on the farm. They would put on their “busy coat” or “duds” to milk cow, bring in milk, make brown soda bread. Remembers mother making bread around 10am in an earthenware crock with sour milk in it which went into the Aga oven. |
0.10.35 - 0.13.05 |
Learning about her Mother Remarrying Tom worked with the mental hospital and he would call in and there was a china cup for him. "Mary" asked her mother whether Tom slept in the house now, and previously asked May where her mother was and was told she was on holidays. Subsequently she realised that her mother had married Tom and they had been on honeymoon. Reflects on how little information she was given about this change in situation and how it applies in her nursing role and thinks that sometimes less information is better when dealing with young children who may not fully understand everything. |
0.13.05- 0.16.00 |
Typical Day on the Farm when Growing up In winter deal with the cow: hay, water, and muck out. Cow let out in the field in spring and summer. Dinner would be any time after the cake was made- ready about 12:30. Dinner usually bacon, cabbage, carrots, parsnips. As season moved on more turnips and potatoes. Seasonal. Started with Ker Pinks then Golden Wonders, didn’t like soapy Aran Banners. Then apple or rhubarb tarts. Supper at 5pm or 6pm: beans, bananas, eggs. They had hens which had to be fed. Went to bed at 8pm or 9pm. In evening have to bring the cow back down and there might be 10 or 12 bullocks following you- nightmare that they would trample you to death? Mother and May made the food. When "Mary" was 7 or 8 years old May was let go as "Mary" was considered old enough to help out. |
0.16.00- 0.17.57 |
Interaction with the Patients of the Mental Hospital Looking out the window watching them. Sheep shearing and rolling of the wool. Taking off the “daggings” and rolling the wool into fleeces. Or bringing in the hay watching them piking and the change from horses to tractors. There was an archway into their yard and it became harder to get larger machines through the arch over time. Later on it became bales of hay rather than wines of hay (in Limerick) whereas in Cork they would call it trams. |
0.17.57 - 0.19.17 |
Animals, Games and Mushrooms They prepared the animals with special soaps for the Limerick Show in August [Limerick Agricultural Show Society]. As children they would sit on the walls in the cow house (cowhouse) and use the chains as stirrups and pretend to be riding horses. Picked mushrooms in fields often along the path the cows had made where you’d find mushrooms. |
0.19.17- 0.21.36
|
Going to School and Standing up for Yourself Walk across the fields to get to the road to school which was 2 miles away, wear wellies if raining. When older cycled to school. Had the younger sister in the carrier. Fell off the bike coming down Ryan’s Hill and the sister fell into the bushes and the nettles. Mother gave out to them for falling off the bike. In 6th class coming up the hill on was home from school at cousin Mick Clancy’s hill boys thought it was fun to hold on to the carrier to hold them back. "Mary's" mother advised to throw a stone at the boys. The next time it happened she picked up a rock and the boys ran away. It was lesson for "Mary" for life to stand up for herself and that the threat was enough to work. |
0.21.36- 0.25.44
|
School 5 years old when she started school, thinks it might have been around Easter time. Small two teacher school. Mrs McAvoy the principal of the school had taught her father, and was distantly related to "Mary". "Mary's" sister was put on the teacher’s desk to be admired because of her beautiful eyes and hair- which she disliked because she was being made to feel different. 6 pupils in her class in 5th class and they were given the choice to do History and Geography through English or Irish and they chose to do it through Irish. The teacher was from Dingle and from him they learned a “love and appreciation” for Irish. Had good spoken Irish in a secondary school in Limerick City. Her knowledge of Irish helped later on as a PHN when she was assigned an area which had a Gaeltacht in it. Most Gaeltacht schools were insistent that the PHNs did use Irish. "Mary" went to Secondary School in the Presentation in Sexton Street. |
0.25.44 - 0.27.57 |
Neighbour’s House and JP McManus on a Bike A little old lady, a spinster called Noni lived in road opposite them. She had old open fireplace with bellows, and thatched roof and two dogs. "Mary" had a step-brother and a step-sister. The step brother was quiet and calm in Noni’s house but he was cross and looking for attention when he was at home. A guy in secondary school used to cycle past in a red bike and "Mary" later discovered it was JP McManus [businessman and racehorse owner] and her younger sister knew him. |
0.27.57 - 0.29.49
|
Starting in Nursing after School Always in the back of her mind to do nursing. Did leaving cert when 17 and did interview for nursing. Had started a commercial course. The Blue Nuns ran St. John’s Hospital and knew she was due to start in February. Millford House in Castletroy was run by Blue Nuns and they had a nursing home and "Mary" dropped the commercial course and worked there as a nurses aid. It was a good introduction and confidence building exercise for her. "Mary" thinks that for the nuns patient care was paramount and the written work less important but it is almost the reverse today. |
0.29.49 - 0.34.51
|
Decision to do Nursing and Other Career Options Looking at magazines and what nursing involved. Career guidance consisted of blue leaflets. Through the commercial course "Mary" heard about the Junior X course to get into the civil service and the ESB jobs which she hadn’t been aware of through school. Travel was something that she considered and nursing catered for that. The nurses who had lived abroad were easier to work with they had a broader perspective on life and “didn’t sweat the small stuff”. When you started nursing you got to see the different fields and "Mary" liked theatre work and enjoyed the labour ward when she was doing midwifery. Matron had said to her that she should considered doing the tutoring course. Thinks this is because she was questioning what her tutor was reading out of textbooks. She applied for the tutoring course. But she while she had anatomy and biology for the leaving cert but not chemistry and physics. So she did leaving cert physics and chemistry that year but dropped the physics because she had also taken on introduction to psychology. But she had already gotten the Public Health so she chose that. |
0.34.51 - 0.43.07 |
Public Health Nurse: Role and Duties PHN you are on your own to some extent you can plan your day, assess the patient. Communicate with the patient GP and hospital. You were independent to a large extent. Had continuity you could see things improving or ‘disimproving’. House visits, vaccination clinics as part of a team, coffee or lunch in Grattan Street where you met other disciplines not just nursing. A mix. Could be rostered for a dressings clinic in Grattan Street. They might have been referred after discharge from the Mercy Hospital. Now the Mercy would have its own dressings clinic. Going to schools dealing with healthy children and teachers. Originally had an admin person with them but now just a doctor and nurse when going to vaccinate in schools. HPV vaccination a big team goes to try to get the first years done in one go. Health promotion going into houses and dealing with young mums. Private houses, corporation houses built in 1950s and 1960s, apartments or flats as they called them then. Leave a note for someone who you couldn’t find in a flat. Maybe a baby that wasn’t feeding very well. Hear that the mother has moved house and start detective work to track her down asking neighbours. And the nurse in their new area would be informed. Write letters to council about the poor conditions of housing. And then neighbours would ask for letters then as well. |
0.43.07 - 0.51.42 |
Perspective & Expectations of Patients on Healthcare Most people were welcoming and giving you tea that you didn’t want. A few were trying to get the PHN to adapt too much to their own schedules. For patients the PHN came at the beginning of life and at the end of life. Would be asked “do you think it’s better today nurse?” and trying to read the emotions of the other family members. Understanding with the GP about what the family situation was. Some people would ask for everything they thought they could get other families would never ask for anything. PHN has to decide how necessary a request is or how much someone needs to be persuaded. Try to stay on side and be persistent. Older people at the time had the idea that you only left a hospital in a box. So it could be hard to persuade them to go to hospital. Fear of lack of independence as well. Reflect on how nursing training prepares PHN for these situations. "Tread wearily" and "feel the vibes" when entering a new patient environment. Privilege to be with people in their time of need because you felt that you were doing something and you were a support to the family especially in the time before morphine pumps. Even saying “I don’t think anything is going to happen tonight” might be the simple reassurance that the family wants. Fear with a bedbound patient is that they would get pressure sores. One of the ways to avoid this is to change their position. And there was some education involved in ensuring whoever was moving the patient when the PHN isn’t there was doing it correctly. Extended family would assist with a patient in a way less common today. |
0.51.42 - 0.55.45
|
Memories of mothers and their babies and music Remembers a family who lived in one of the lanes off North Main Street. “me mam” was what the family called the beautiful mother who had a lame leg, she had grey-blond hair. One of the daughters had a baby that had a life-limited condition. The whole family were supporting them. They were always well made-up and the sick baby was in the middle. The baby didn’t survive only lived for 8 or 9 months. The family used to sing “Brown Girl in the Ring” by Boney M and the baby used to recognise it and respond. Sleet and rain coming up North Main Street. Pound shop maybe called Powers Jim Reeves and Bing Crosby singing White Christmas which lifted her heart. Streets were full at Christmastime. |
0.55.45 - 1.01.36
|
Patients and Cases and conditions in the Grattan Street/ Middle Parish Area Remembers rickety stairs leading to flats above shops which you wouldn’t realise were there. Old man lived in laneway off Grattan Street in a tenement house like those in Glasgow she had seen near York Hill, with red sandstone buildings. Went to this man on a quick “social visit” and he had rasping breath. Just “kippins” or laths on the fire. No electricity. Waiting two hours for ambulance to come. Man didn’t survive. Something else in place of the building now. There may not have been a door on the house you could just walk straight in. |
0.55.45 - 0.58.18 |
Patients and Cases and conditions in the Grattan Street/ Middle Parish Area- difficulties of nursing and dealing with different agencies. Woman with dementia in 1970s one room flat in warm house. Bathroom outside. Wasn’t able to look after herself. Had the newspapers stored on top of the electric cooker. GP trying to get her somewhere. Woman would lock herself out. Half naked walking across Sheare’s Street. "Mary" put her in own car and brought her to Our Lady’s Hospital to be seen by psychiatrist. They wouldn’t take her because of her age. Arranged geriatrician appointment who wouldn’t take her because she was psychiatric. A “street woman” (homeless woman) moved in with her and was able to make sure the house wouldn’t be set on fire. Meals on Wheels or Penny Dinners sharing the one meal. "Mary's" frustration with the bureaucracy. |
0.58.18 - 1.05.20 |
Woman with Flea Bites/ Flea Marks "Mary" being polite said told her it was a rash but the woman had no qualms about calling them fleabites. "Mary" got temporary eviction order to clean out her flat. Process was traumatic for "Mary" & the woman. Woman spent her time in St Francis Church while her flat was being cleaned. The woman had collected things from bins and stored them in her house in case she might use them and they removed 57 bags of rubbish. Found a beautiful photograph album. Mounds of rubbish as high as the bed. Bucket to empty into the toilet. Candles in danger of burning the house down. The woman was upset that her stuff had been taken but they had put her things in storage in case she wanted them. As PHN you can wear your own clothes but "Mary"wore white uniform in case of infestation in the flat. Man from environmental health section sprayed the flat. "Mary" counted 57 dead fleas on her uniform when she took it off in the bath when she got home. Later with her boyfriend at the time the same woman shouted “Hello nurse!” at her. |
1.05.20 - 1.18.38
|
Vaccines, Vaccination and the anti-vaccination People were pro vaccinate after 1956 polio outbreak in Cork. Many people would have been familiar with Polio, its devastating affect and that you can be vaccinated against it. People had to come to the clinic 3 or 4 times with a baby which might be difficult for families with many children and buggies. Remembers vulnerable family in Knocknaheeney. The mother was poor with keeping appointments and she came in the pouring rain with 4 or 5 children. Cost of taxi was 11 pounds or euro even though she had to live on social welfare. The staff suggested that she could get a bus. But she pointed out that one of her children was ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) and that he would be climbing on the bus stop. "Mary" says the woman deserved a medal and reflects that they as staff had been judging her for her predicament. Crowds of people and buggies. Role of extended family in assisting with child rearing. Some children may be difficult to deal with. Obstacles to families getting children vaccinated. Vaccination card files. Brought from City Hall to the place of vaccination and not locked. Vaccines were taken from a fridge in City Hall and brought in a biscuit tin along with adrenaline in case someone had a reaction. Compares this to the modern method of cold-chain. After Professor Wakefield made an association between MMR vaccine and autism the vaccination uptake reduced and it’s been an uphill battle since to reverse it. In 1970s and 1980s there was memory of measles, mumps, meningitis and polio. "Mary" worked in a school where a child refused vaccinations in junior infants in the early 1980s. That child got measles, encephalitis and was in a wheelchair by 1st class and by age 8 or 9 she was dead. HCA (Handicapped Childrens Allowance) allowance handicapped children’s allowance financial support for the extra care that was needed for the child. Thinks of the scaremongering about vaccines and the consciences of those people if they knew what the result of not getting vaccinated was. That incident happened in the early 1980s. Worked with a doctor who had difficulty walking after he had got polio in the 1950s. Young mothers in 1970s and 1980s had mothers who influenced them based on their accounts in the diseases in 1950s. Rural approach to vaccines: if you eat healthy and are healthy then you won’t contract the disease. "Mary" says that while a weaker person succumbs to a disease faster it’s not a protection against a disease. Rural culture which still exists of “I don’t believe in vaccines”. HPV vaccines. With all vaccines certain percentage of risk even though it is very rare. Weigh up the advantages versus the risk of something happening. Vaccine cold chain from manufacturer to the administering to the child is much more streamlined. Incidence of polio came down so vaccines were effective. |
1.18.38 - 1.21.46
|
Earliest Memories of Grattan Street Waiting room now it’s opened up with pillars and a balcony. When "Mary" started it had a ceiling and so was enclosed and it had a wooden floor where you could hear the “clip clop” of people walking across it echoing. They didn’t have access to the upstairs with stores and pigeons. According to Anne [a friend who worked there] there were stores of the things leftover from when Grattan Street was used as a dispensary/pharmacy/chemist. Old fashioned metal chairs with a timber seat. Queue in the mornings for the dressing, older people with big swollen legs. Mr Hart and Mr Condon were the social welfare officers and they would have clinics which had crowds of people waiting for them. People would receive bed linen or washing machines. Mr Hart advised "Mary" once that when he started out he was given a sob story and he got someone a number of beds and later he saw them being sold on the Coal Quay! Smoking was allowed at the time so there was the smell and fog of smoke. |
1.21.46 - 1.23.14
|
Repairs and Revamp/ Refurbishment of Grattan Street Transferred to the City Hall while there was revamping or refurbishing of Grattan Street. Once they returned one of the admin staff noticed that a there was some dry rot on part of the wood in the jam of the door and more repairs had to be done. Beautiful once the repairs were done. Opened up the ceiling with the balcony. The big tea room could be used for meetings and there was a fridge and kettle- luxury! |
1.23.14 - 1.27.35 |
Grattan Street as a Workplace “You could never call it glamorous!”. Bars on the windows. Hose reel for the fire. For fire drills the bars on some windows could be opened. The people to work with were fabulous. Dave in podiatry said ‘the building was crap but the people were lovely’. Building was fine, serviceable. "Mary" had a sense of history of the building and that it was privilege to work in it. Beautiful cut limestone blocks. Appreciated that and the big windows. Anne set off the alarm once when she went out the back door. There was once a mix up with the keys. The cleaners would lock up and throw the keys in the letter box and someone else would open up in the morning with another set of keys. But somehow both sets of keys were in the letter box. "Mary" climbed in through a window that was opened and was able to open the door from the inside! Sean the porter would remember this story and Pam from the eye clinic would remember it as well. |
1.27.35 - 1.30.11
|
Description of Grattan Street Historic, homely, old grandeur, comfortable but uncomfortable, people are willing to work and find solutions. Nice building at one level but primitive at another level. Staff were always lovely and gelled. Started with 3 disciplines and that expanded. People were caring and good sense of comradery, work spirit and work ethic. Old photocopier that was there for 20-30 years which was always breaking down. They used to repair it themselves. When they asked for a new one they were told “it’s not pride is making ye ask for a new one!” |
1.30.11 - 1.31.23
|
The Effect of the Mix of Disciplines Levelling effect. Nobody thought they were above anyone. Meet people from other disciples who could make exceptions or give advice- could tic-tac with one another. It was very personal. You weren’t going into someone else’s territory through some doors. They all met in the tea rom. |
1.31.23 - 1.33.08
|
Car Park No car parking when "Mary" began. Staff and outsiders could park there. There was some kind of grandfather clause which allowed non-staff to park there. There used to be agro between the staff about it until they realised they were all in the same boat. Then the Educate Together School opened up and they were trying to park their cars there too. It’s hassle. Manic at times. Compares it to Mr Bean. Residents had parking. |
1.33.08 - 1.35.46
|
Child Welfare Case Child welfare issue was brought in front of Judge Clifford. The mother had issues with alcohol and depression (those problems could affect children not getting vaccines as well). "Mary" remembers child or 4 or 5 years of age with bottle in their mouth and the bottle had whiskey in it. The fridge had one tomato in it. What should the staff wear to court- should they wear a hat? "Mary" was obliged to call to the house as a result of the case. And the child was eventually fostered. Wheelchairs and how tough it was for families and children growing up and needing bigger wheelchairs. Makes you think how lucky you are according to "Mary". |
1.35.46 - 1.37.39
|
Curiosities and Quirks of Grattan Street Building Pigeons could be heard upstairs and the exterminator came. Plaster crumbling off the walls in Grattan Street. Paperwork and records. New letterheads and they were ordered to dump things while people downstairs were looking for things but there was money being wasted on paperwork being thrown out. |
1.37.39 - 1.41.50
|
Floods 2010 and Transporting Vaccines Vaccines were stored in a special room with fridges wired directly to the mains, there was a fear the power would be lost. Water was at the door. Vaccines should be transferred to St Finbarr’s hospital. "Mary" and Sean the porter waited for a van to come to transport them. Eventually a fiesta arrived with 2 big men. They had 20-30 boxes like cool boxes. They made two trips in "Mary's" car to bring the vaccines across town through the floods. Describes herself as a determined person. Onetime borrowed waders from Meitheal Mara on Crosses Green and walked to Grattan Street in them. |
1.41.50 - 1.43.18
|
Future of Grattan Street Building Historical connection with William Penn. Would like to see Grattan Street be a visitor centre or a place for weddings. Could have a little garden or courtyard. Current waiting room could be used. Catering could be provided there as well. |
1.43.18 - 1.46.50
|
Hopes for St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre Hopes there is suitable parking. And tied up thinking from the planning department and developers. Encouraging people to go green and use bicycles etc. is fine but closing parking isn’t the place to start. There should be a place to make a cup of tea yourself. Good service for people who need it and people feel they can access it. Hope it isn’t too big, and there won’t be sections that you will never meet. A central meeting place is desirable where you could meet someone you don’t directly work with. |
1.46.50 - 1.48.40
|
Making the Building Approachable Easy access. Does there need to be a service for mothers to get up the hill to the health centre? Will there be a place for children to play in? People should be given specific individual appointments not 20 appointments sent out for 2pm. Access to water like a watercooler. |
1.48.40 - 1.52.00
|
Decision to Become a Nurse Would choose to be a nurse if she had the option over again. Has enjoyed life and had a good home life. Have had lots of opportunities. Could have become pigeonholed in one area. In one way "Mary" feels she has cut herself off from other aspects of nursing that she was interested in- clinical and theatre related work. Rewarding helping mothers and children with bed wetting issues. |
1.52.00- End |
Outro. Interview ends 1.52.13 |