Imelda Cunning: Grattan Street, Healthcare, Working Life

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Title

Imelda Cunning: Grattan Street, Healthcare, Working Life

Description

Imelda grew up in Bathgate between Edinburgh and Glasgow in Scotland. Her mother was from Cork so Imelda spent time in Whitegate in her youth where she enjoyed the relative freedom she had there playing children’s games and spending time on beaches like Corkbeg and Inch.

Describes her Cork grandmother Eileen O’Reilly née Ahern who always saw the funny side of things. She was a milliner and dressmaker and took in lodgers, usually meteorologists working at Roches Point. She also claimed to have heard the banshee the night before her husband died.

Speaks of her humorous grand-aunt who lived in Greenmount and describes her home including the sideboard and salt dish. “Drinking her tears” was one of her sayings.

Imelda refers to her schooldays in Scotland including corporal punishment administered by nuns. Her school had a mine beneath it to train the boys to work in mines when they were older. Was not sure of her career when she was in school but she came from a medical family. Her father chose their school subjects with a view to them acquiring vocational jobs rather than corporate jobs where they could be fired.

Discusses her father’s optician practice and how she and her family worked with him there writing prescriptions and repairing glasses.

Speaks about moving to Glasgow for college, finding the people friendly and accidently living in an alcohol-free part of the city. Enjoyed the college ski club.

Describes her podiatry clinical experience in Scotland. Explains that podiatry requires dexterity. Podiatrists work on a range of issues including biomechanics, diabetes, gangrene, neurovascular disease, wound care, ulcer prevention and more. Mentions the Irish Medicines Board regulatory issues surrounding podiatry nail surgery in Ireland at the time of interview.

Explains that the typical podiatry patient in the Grattan Street Medical Centre is usually high risk. States that podiatry services need to be expanded so they deal with more moderate risk patients in order to catch early problems and thus prevent them becoming serious issues.

Says that her first reaction to the Grattan Street building in 1999 was that it was like Colditz prison because of the bars on the windows. Explains that she does not share other staff’s love of the Grattan Street Building because of this and further criticises the leaky roof, holes in the walls, dirtiness of the canteen, and its general unsuitability as a clinical environment. Imelda encourages patients to complain about the conditions in the building but they don’t wish too as they are satisfied with the service. She has had positive experiences with other staff in spite of the building not because of it. She will miss the people not the building.

Mentions a patient’s negative opinion of refugees arriving in Ireland in the past, but says that it’s no longer a common opinion.

Expresses positivity in relation to the move to St. Mary’s Primary Care Centre Gurranbraher. Hopes that the services can be expanding and the workplace will be greatly improved including storage space, a computer system, space for filing cabinets.

Remembers that her older patients spoke of the dispensary in Grattan Street where they received free medicines and doctors’ appointments.

Expresses surprise that someone would want to get married in the Grattan Street marriage registry office as she does not like the building.

Mentions that podiatry work requires you to adapt to people and situations and also negatively affects your back. Speaks of patients telling her things in confidence that go beyond podiatry and her attempts to assist them such as encouraging them to contact counselling services due to sexual abuse and bereavement.

Recalls some incidents during flooding events while at work.

Describes how she saw many cases of rickets in Glasgow but none in Cork, while Cork had a higher rate of patients with long-term effects from polio, including the need for shoe adaptations or splints.

Speaks about vaccines and how to encourage people to take them. Suggests that the success of vaccines in suppressing diseases has meant that many parents haven’t seen any cases of these diseases and thus do not appreciate the risks they pose.

Date

7 May 2019

Identifier

CFP_SR00714_Cunning_2019;

Source

Cork Folklore Project Audio Archive

Rights

Cork Folklore Project

Language

English

Type

Sound

Format

3 .wav files

Interviewee

Interviewer

Duration

103 Minutes 3 Seconds

Location

Grattan Street Medical Centre

Original Format

.wav

Bit Rate/Frequency

24bit / 48kHz

Time Summary

0.00.00 - 0.02.27

Background and House

Grew up in Bathgate between Edinburgh and Glasgow in Scotland, mom is from Cork. Spent time in Cork as child granny from Greenmount. Great-grand parents lived in James Street. Granny from Barrack Street lived in Whitegate, married to a guard [Garda] from Cavan.

2 sisters and 2 brothers. 3 weeks in Cork, and holiday in October.

Old house and moved to estate where lots of people to play with. Then moved to house on main road where lots of older people.

0.02.27 - 0.04.23

Children’s Games

Hide and Seek, chap door run (run away knock), elastics, skipping, marbles, kiss cuddle and torture (boys chased the girls and if you were caught you got to decide between as kiss, cuddle and torture), British Bulldogs (someone always got hurt doing it).

0.04.23 - 0.14.27

Memories of Granny (Grand Mother)

Impact on family still, had a saying for everything. Saw funny side of things even though she had a hard life. Getting Imelda to go back to the butchers claiming “those aren’t four lean chump chops”

Freedom of spending time in Whitegate, playing in Trabolgan- archway supposedly haunted by a duke.

Granny’s house was rented, beside the barracks, had four bedrooms. Mattresses for them when they called over.

Granny would cook scones, custard, stews. She played piano and sang. Loved music, had record of James Last.

One of granny’s sayings: “Throw a bit of lipstick on brighten yourself up”

She was small, wore glasses, long-sighted. She was a milliner and dress-maker. Annamae Aherne was a woman from the village who told Imelda her granny had made her first ball gown for her first dance. She did alterations for people. She had a Singer Sewing Machine with a foot pedal. In her 80s granny’s eyesight was going but she would work the foot pedal and Imelda thread the needle and guided it.

Granny crocheted as well.

She had lodgers. Eddie Tucker meteorologist at Roches Point lodged with granny for 25 years. Tony Cotter (meteorologist) lodged there for a while (Silvia was his wife). Headmaster at local school lodged with her for a while.

Liam Cotter walked her dog in the rain and when he returned she had a warm towel ready for the dog not Liam!

0.14.27 - 0.18.18

Granny’s House in Whitegate

Scotsman piper as a knocker on her front door. Beautiful view from her front door of the sea across to Cobh. There was a garage next door and she would sit and chat with Gerry O’Connell.

Spent time on Corkbeg beach where the refinery and holding tanks are now. There was a ballroom there. Spent all day on the beach. Dad and granny would bring the stews and potatoes from the house to the beach. Inch beach, even if it was raining.

In and out of the water all day. Inch had good waves to dive into. Cousins there as well. Lanagan cousins from Dublin, Gibson cousins from Leixlip.

She loved Cork because it had better weather than Scotland.

0.18.18 - 0.22.25

Stories from her Granny

Granny said she heard a banshee the night before her husband died. Heard a noise at the door and opened it and there was no one there.

Grandfather stationed in Blarney before Whitegate. Thinks her granny “liked to play the field a bit” and had arranged to meet different men and she had to send her sister to meet one and cancel one of the meetings.

Granny’s sister cut off her granny’s long plaited hair. Imelda’s granddad used to cycle from Whitegate to Cavan to see his family and would get as far as Mullingar on the first day.

Great grand parents lived on James Street Mary Ellen and Jeremiah Ahern, buried in Ballyphehane cemetery. Learned about them from great-aunt in Greenmount Buildings off Barrack Street.

Dad was Scottish and had sense of Irishness but his mother didn’t as they left Northern Ireland as Catholics in a predominantly Catholic area.

Imelda’s mom went back and did her “highers” exams the same year Imelda was doing hers.

0.22.25 - 0.24.50

Grand-Aunt

Grand-aunt was funny and had funny sayings like “drinking your tears” with laughter. A sideboard was where you kept dishes, condiments, sugar bowl, drawers with cutlery. Dish for the salt rather than salt shaker.

0.24.50 - 0.31.26

School

In Scotland: mixed school, state schools, catholic school. St Mary’s primary School Bathgate. Dad’s sister was a teacher and she came to that school when on her placement.

Mistress of the infant school would dye her hair a different colour every week pink and blue. Some of the teachers psychologically unhinged.

Nun who slapped people with a hoover slap and would run her knuckles down pupils’ spines.

There was a mine underneath the school to train the boys how to work in a mine. It had good sports facilities. At Christmas they had a Ceilidh, which Imelda had at her wedding and everyone loved.

She liked English and History. It annoys her that they weren’t taught Scottish history. Says there is a difference between rebellion and uprising.

Very little Irish history on their curriculum in Scotland.

She feels Scottish but has an affiliation with Ireland. She’s been in Ireland over 20 years and doesn’t think she will lose her accent.

0.31.26 - 0.33.13

Family Tree

Great grandfather was apparently good with horses and was a coachman in Ballymena House although there is no record of him in the archives. He lived until his nineties. And he was a gardener too. Worked in garden in Ayrshire. Granny didn’t speak about Northern Ireland at all and considered herself Scottish.

0.33.13 - 0.36.33

Choice of Career and Career Path

Didn’t know what she wanted to do in school, thought about optics but didn’t like physics. Applied for Podiatry in Edinburgh and Glasgow. Got a place in Glasgow and enjoyed it. Opened a practice in Bathgate, family involved in medicine. Dad was optician, sister dentist and sister optician.

Moved to Dublin when she was going out with a man from Drogheda and worked in Inchicore and then moved back home when they split up. Got a job with greater Glasgow health board. And worked in Lothian. Shettleston in Glasgow.

Job came up for diabetic unit in CUH, Dr O’Halloran looking for a podiatrist which she didn’t get but was second on the panel but didn’t understand what that meant. Later a job came up in the community and she took it, back in 1999.

0.36.33 - 0.39.54

Choosing Podiatry for University & career. Dad’s influence

Had been thinking about different options but couldn’t come up with anything better and felt pressurised to make a choice. Hated Podiatry after the first year as it was mostly revision for her and she was bored. She began to enjoy it in second year when there was more patient interaction and became more challenging.

Her dad had a formula for all the children in school for which subjects they did. He thought that if you have a vocational job that you will always be employed, didn’t want them to be hired by large corporate companies where they could be fired.

Her brother did law, brother is GP, sister dentist, sister optometrist. Thinks her dad was a bit closed to other occupations. It wasn’t bad advice but she won’t be using that approach with her children.

A nephew doing economics and another doing architecture and they love them. Family is all fairly artistic but it wasn’t an option at the time.

0.39.54 - 0.42.00

Father’s Optician Practice

Imelda and family worked there. She could write prescriptions for lenses and repair glasses.

Dad worked five days a week and two evenings as well. Didn’t have much time off. He had five kids had to work hard. He retired at 67. Still enjoys his whiskey.

He’s very sociable, people would wait for two hours to go to see him. He would be buzzed for the next patient but he would still be talking to the previous one.

Teachers in her school would know what Imelda was doing because they would have heard from her dad.

0.42.00- 0.44.15

Living in Glasgow and College

Loved people from Glasgow who are friendly and warm more so than Edinburgh. 17 when went to college, she had done 6 years in secondary school. Claire, a friend from school, did podiatry as well. But they picked a flat to live which was a “dry area” where no alcohol was served.

Ski club in college. Imelda says if you can ski in Scotland you can ski anywhere because it’s dangerous and icy and with exposed rocks.

0.44.15 - 0.48.06

Training

Small college not affiliated with university, and it was a diploma. Not a degree and affiliated with Queen Margaret University in Edinburgh and Caledonia in Glasgow.

On Crookston Road in a prefab where the clinics were. Because it was free everybody came and they could cater for 40 or 50 people. A podiatry school was established in Ireland about 6 years ago (2013) it’s in NUIG Galway University. Cork put in a bid for it but didn’t get it. [Whispers that Cork should’ve gotten it!] thinks that they bought the curriculum and course content from Glasgow.

Glasgow was a small place so you got to know the lecturers well.

Training was 9-5. Over the summer clinical set had to be done over the holidays because patients needed to be seen. 2 or 3 days of lectures and 2 or 3 days of clinics as well.

Lots of hours of clinical training which she thought was good to get the practical experience as podiatry is a job that requires dexterity.

She thinks the focus now in training is more on the background, and that a lot of people graduating now cannot treat a corn because they haven’t been shown properly or haven’t been exposed enough to it. Focus is also now more on wound care.

Focus on wound care in high risk patients means you lose skills in other things like biomechanics and nail surgery.

0.48.06 - 0.52.38

Role of Podiatrist

Not about cutting toenails. They do cut toenails if there is something wrong with them. Holistic view of the patient. Look at the patient from the waist down. Biomechanics is the way people walk and the alignment of the joints and muscles. Hen toed and bow-legged. Some things can be corrected if seen early enough.

Most of her patients are older, they are diabetics or have neurovascular disease or other neurological issues which you are not correcting just offloading to prevent ulceration.

Diabetes on the increase and its complications can cause terrible things with feet- ulcers, gangrene etc. Wound care is a big part of what she does. Including removing skin, tissue and bone from wounds.

Focus on wound care may not be what they should be doing. Issues with nail surgery. Hopes it will be sorted when State Registration comes in.

4 staff when Imelda started 20 years ago and there are 6 now. She thinks there should be over 60 now in her Cork area based on the population. There were 96 podiatrists in Glasgow when she worked there. Biggest population in HSE South.

Fighting fire all the time not doing any prevention.

0.52.38 - 0.57.00

Typical Client or Patient

All high risk. Greater risk or have had ulceration, infection, amputation, gangrene. Active means they currently have one of those issues. Those with potential to develop problems may have problems with circulation, sensation or underlying medical conditions.

Should be getting the moderate risk people and helping them from developing into

Never-ending ‘like painting the Forth Bridge’. [colloquial expression for an unending task]

Lots of diabetics. Majority of those with foot diseases are vascular because the vascular team doesn’t have a foot team. Mainly over 65s.

But have people under 65 and have a few children too.

Frustrating to only by offering a limited services because of lack of staff.

0.57.00 - 0.58.28

Nail surgery

Podiatrists enjoy doing nail surgery. When local anaesthetic issue is cleared up they will have to be retrained in nail surgery in NUIG (National University Galway). Not legal under Irish Medicines Board to use and buy and store anaesthetic. Could use it now if they could get a patient group directive going.

0.58.28 - 1.01.50

Podiatry in Glasgow

More of a general podiatry service. More structure in the services. Specialist clinics with pathways. A wider range than in Cork. Range of things that should be seen in Cork but were seen in Glasgow.

Worked with foot care assistant. Did a biomechanics clinic. Did a nail surgery once a month to keep up to speed. Doing the same thing in Cork becomes monotonous and boring a bit of variety is more interesting and challenging.

1.01.50 - 1.05.26

Impression of Grattan Street

Thought it looked like Colditz because of the bars on the windows. Was feeling quite despondent about it. Thought “oh my god what have I done”

Marion O’Donovan founded the podiatry service in 1967 in Greenmount Community Centre.

Imelda had been working in Bishopbriggs in Glasgow seeing 30 patients a day- which was lunacy. Worked with foot care assistant and it was like a conveyer belt. She used a scalpel for the debridement [the removal of damaged tissue or foreign objects from a wound.]

When she started with Marion they had 4 patients in the morning. Marion was very kind to her and didn’t want to scare her by giving her too many patients at the beginning. Told Marion “you could book in a few more!” Marion was very nice and ‘mothered’

1.05.26 - 1.08.06

Big Changes of Staff

Speech and language were there and left before Imelda started. Secretarial staff- there has been a huge turnover of staff from Admin support. Aisling who is the current agency staff is great.

Imelda, Marion, Helen, Vicky were in Podiatry. Marion is retired. Helen has been there the longest. Helen does 2 days a week, Vicky does 3 days a week, Imelda does 4 days a week.

PHNs change a lot, AMOs change a lot and admin staff has changed as well. Lots of people coming through Grattan Street and so Imelda knows a lot of people from different areas- a good form of networking. Good that she knows who to contact, especially about patients.

[Phone Rings. Interview Paused]

1.08.06 - 1.09.31

[interview restarts]

Dislikes Unsuitable Grattan Street Building

Never thought it was a nice building. Bars on the windows. Hasn’t seen it painted. Money has not been spent on it. It’s a clinical environment which has not been well maintained. Imelda will not be sad when Grattan Street closes. Substandard. Holes in the wall. Will miss the camaraderie.

1.09.31 - 1.10.42

Parking in Grattan Street and relations with Colleagues

Parking has been a nightmare. There has nearly been fisticuffs about it. May have to move your car ten times when with a patient. Lucky to have free parking.

On the whole got on well with colleagues, except for a few who were hard to get on with due to odd personalities.

1.10.42 - 1.12.00

Patients’ Perspective of Grattan Street

Imelda tries to get patients to complain about the holes and cracks in walls. People don’t want to complain but they are happy with the service and the people.

1.12.00 - 1.15.30

Grattan Street vs a Different Environment St Mary’s

Would like pleasant surroundings for the workplace where people spend so much of their time.

Imelda describes Grattan Street as a kip. 20 years working in that environment is not good.

Hopes that in St Mary’s the services can be expanded. Set up an ad hoc foot care clinic in Mayfield and it was a way of saving HSE money as patients were being prescribed bespoke footwear from GPs which is expensive and may not often be needed. Imelda can insert insoles into stock shoes which helps the patients and saves the HSE money. No shelves have been put in to stock the shoes.  

St Mary’s will have a space for storing shoes, there will be a workshop, a state-of-the-art sterilisation room and four clinical rooms. They are also going paperless. They will have a new computer system. This is possible because they are such a small unit. There are 8 filing cabinets in podiatry in Grattan Street and there will not be space in St Mary’s for these.  

Hopes that the camaraderie of Grattan Street will continue in St Mary’s, although she has heard the canteen is small and it’s hard to get to the kettle.

1.15.30 - 1.21.12

Grattan Street, Attitudes to Migrants and Refugees

Imelda started in Grattan Street in 1999 there had been a brain drain going on in Ireland with people leaving. Since there was no school of podiatry in Ireland they were relying on people from the UK coming to fill positions. One of Imelda’s first patients was very angry that an Irish person couldn’t be found to do her job. She told him not someone as good as she was!

This patient had had a few children who had to leave to get work and he couldn’t understand how Imelda came in and got a job and they weren’t able to. Around this time refugees started to come into Ireland. Imelda was surprised by the racism of the over mainly 65 year old patients and what they thought it was acceptable to say. Imelda thinks it would be worse if she were black. She heard a lot of hatred towards immigrants because so many people had to leave Ireland to get work. Imelda pointed out that Irish people had to be accepted in places that they went to.

People were suspicious of her coming into the country possibly because they weren’t used to people coming into the country. People would say things about immigrants taking “our jobs”. Wouldn’t expect to hear people say that so openly in Glasgow as a much more diverse city.

Imelda doesn’t hear those kinds of comments now.

She thinks that new graduates get a hard time from patients at first, because they are new, younger and it is almost a rite of passage. It can be hard for patients having been used to one clinician to switch to a new one.

1.21.12 - 1.23.50

Change in Patients

Imelda knows of a woman from Africa whose foot was put into a fire. She survived but the deformity she has is horrific. [1:22:23 phone rings and Imelda says she has to move her car] Woman was only 13 when this happened to her.

Many similar stories and stories from older people of sexual abuse. Imelda feels ill-equipped to deal with it. If Imelda hears of it she has to report it, but the patients don’t want her to report it and just want to tell her in confidence. They have maybe never spoken to anyone about it before. They tend to open up as they see the same person repeatedly so they build up trust.

[Pause Interview for Imelda to move her Car]

1.23.50 - 1.25.20

[Interview Restarts]

Helping Patients beyond Podiatry

In Imelda’s role she feels she is a bit of a social worker as well.

Refers people to counselling services which are free in North and South Lee. For sexual abuse, deaths etc.

Quite a few patients do take that help but you have to almost make the phone call for them.

1.25.20 - 1.28.45

Future of Grattan Street

Imelda doesn’t know exactly what is happening with Grattan Street but thinks other services are moving in. Thinks work will have to be done on the building if it is to keep functioning for the HSE.

There was bucket in canteen collecting water every time it rained for a years. No one should have to work in an environment like that Imelda thinks.

Imelda just feels that about Grattan Street that she will “close the door” and  “put it behind me”.

Hates the canteen and the building thinks it’s horrible, dirty and filthy. Thinks people like it because it’s small and lots of people know each other from having worked there together for a long time.

She thinks that people will miss the people not the building.

The building used to be the Dispensary which provided free healthcare she thinks. Her patients when she started used to tell her that. They told her the doctors were in the dispensary, she thinks it was free health care. They used to come to get medicine.

Quaker meeting house before that, and they left it to the HSE.

Marriage registry is also in Grattan Street but Imelda doesn’t know why anyone would want to get married there- thinks it’s horrendous! Sees people getting married and taking photographs while she is working and has to wait for them to finish.

1.28.45 - 1.29.15

Grandmother
Grandmother’s name: Eileen Ahern maiden name who became Eileen O’Reily when she married.

“Drinking her tears” grand mother’s saying.

1.29.15 - 1.32.23

State of Podiatry in Ireland and the Option of Private Practice
Thinks that Grattan Street podiatry is the best podiatry service in the country, maybe outside of Galway because the school is there. Cork was the first place in the country to provide a podiatry service run by the HSE.  

Services need to be expanded. They could retain staff if there was more scope- unless someone is interested in wound care they will enter private practice rather than staying in Grattan Street. Imelda has been tempted to enter private practice. Imelda has done private practice as well in the past. Imelda is now a manager and misses being a clinician because she thinks that is what she does best.

There was a podiatrist in Grattan Street while a patient had a cardiac arrest and the podiatrist got an ambulance and he/she was in such a flap and gave the patient’s home address and not the address for Grattan Street! Patient survived thankfully. And Grattan street now has an AED (Automated External Defibrillator).

1.32.23 - 1.33.10

What makes a good podiatrist.

Have to be a good people person and be able to do a bit of social work. Have to be versatile. So many diverse different kinds of people come in. You have to adapt and try to relate to them as best you can. Good communication skills.

1.33.10 - 1.37.21

Would Imelda choose podiatry again?

Thinks she would but then doubts herself. Has enjoyed being a podiatrist. Doesn’t think there is anything that she would prefer to do.

Podiatry takes a toll on your back partly due to poor posture and not having the correct equipment.

Remembers some of her old patients who were great characters. There was a man who lived across the road and was washed out of his house.

During the flood Imelda was in Neptune inoculating children against swine flu. Fiona Kelly was the secretary at the time and her husband’s car was swept away. People in the houses nearby had to live in a hotel for a while.

One of the patients would call her Miss Imelda and the other clinician Miss Vicky.

Learned that this area was the Middle Parish and funny that her great grandparents were born just up the road in James Street.

[Interviewer does the final outro here but there is another part to the interview which follows]

1.37.21 - 1.43.03

Past Diseases and Vaccines

Imelda didn’t see rickets in Cork even though she had seen a lot of it in Glasgow. “every second person who came into you had the wee bandy legs”. Lack of sunshine in Glasgow due to tenements and high rise.

Polio and TB were big in Cork. But TB was a bit comparable to Glasgow. Her dad had TB and her uncle in Dublin had TB as well.

People don’t remember what some of the diseases that can now be vaccinated for were actually like.

Polio can have long term effects such as deformity, muscle wastage, smaller limbs, leg length difference which requires large platform shoes to make up the difference in the leg length. Debilitating diseases so important to get vaccinations as a child. Especially for TB which Cork did not do regularly you had to request it which she did with her own children.

Her dad talks about when he got TB a lot because he missed a year of school due to it. He had to go to an asylum but his siblings didn’t get it.

Imelda still has patients who had polio. Shoe adaptations or splints are needed for them. It is debilitating and unnecessary.

Imelda thinks that some of her colleagues would have a different view to vaccinations than she would have.

Thinks that to encourage people to get vaccinated they could be shown pictures of things that can happen as a result of not getting your child vaccinated. If that’s the choice between a small chance there might be side effect versus an epidemic of children getting polio. It’s no contest.

Some colleagues might have sort of anti-vax [anti-vaccination] views. They may focus on the side-effects but not on the effects of getting the disease. She thinks it’s reasonable to weight up the facts and see that inoculation is safer. Thinks people have their free choice, although points out that there is talk of making it compulsory.  Not certain that she agrees with whether it should be made compulsory or not. But thinks that new mothers have not seen any of these diseases and that they need to see them in action to realise that they do not want their children to have the disease.

Doesn’t agree with taking away freedom of choice. Cannot operate as a dictatorship.

[Interview Ends]

Citation

Cork Folklore Project, “Imelda Cunning: Grattan Street, Healthcare, Working Life,” accessed March 29, 2024, https://corkfolklore.org/archivecatalolgue/document/246.