Jack Johnson: Masonry, Fishing, Working Life

Jack Johnson again with Monkstown football team crop.jpg

Title

Jack Johnson: Masonry, Fishing, Working Life

Subject

Stonemasons: Occupational Lore:

Description

Jack begins by describing his family background in the mason trade and his own beginnings as a mason.

He then talks about social events and going to dances at The Arcadia club. Jack then mentions his growing up in Monkstown and schooldays. Working at threshing. Starting as a mason and injuring his finger. Jack talks about his time working for Pat Shea “The Gangster”. Also, a Co-worker John Falvey joining the British Army and being killed in Cyprus. Jack fired for standing up to foreman. Working in Dwyer’s factory. Masons “Bronco” Welsh and Joe Dynahan.” Bronco’s brother “The Whistler” and his part in 1916. On Bronco making and selling tools. Masons pawning tools. Having a set of chisels stolen.

Jack then talks about taking pride in his work and the low standards of today’s builders. On the importance of sewer work. Recalling sewer work jobs. Working on his own sewer. Jacks pride in his reputation as a mason. On working with different materials. Jack then speaks of his mother. And relations in West cork. The beginnings of Jacks interest in fishing. Jacks membership of fishing clubs and representing Ireland in Germany. Fishing on the pier. Night fishing and methods of attracting fish. The time Jack caught a record fish. On how he became so good at fishing and his methods. On the lack of overall fishing among Monkstown residents. Being caught in a storm off Ballycotton. Working the drift on a trawler. A near miss with another boat. Giving up boating when his eyesight became bad.

Jack mentions the changes he’s seen. His dislike of the new look Patrick Street.
Moving to England to find work. 1956. and on the infamous criminals Reginald Christie and The Kray Twins. On his wages in England. More on the work he did. The differences between working on sites in England and Ireland. His father working for Kennedy -Callaghan and clashing over the breaks. His father being removed as foreman. On working with his father. When he started working at the beginning. Talking about his brothers and sisters. Friends Jack made on the sites. Characters on the sites and their nicknames. Jack tells a story about his grandfather. On the masons language The Barlog. Working in Irish Steel. Jack speaking about seeing two men killed at Haulbowline and accidents there.

Date

11 August 2016

Identifier

CFP_SR00583_johnson_2016

Coverage

Cork, Ireland 1940s -2010s

Source

Cork Folklore Project Audio Archive

Rights

Cork Folklore Project

Language

English, Béarlagair na Saor (Masons Language)

Type

Sound

Format

3 .wav files

Interviewee

Interviewer

Duration

113min 06sec

Location

Cork City

Original Format

.wav

Bit Rate/Frequency

24bit/48kHz

Transcription

The following is a short extract from the interview transcript, copyright of the Cork Folklore Project. If you wish to access further archival material for this interview or other interviews please contact CFP, folklorearchive@gmail.com

JJ
But then when I worked with I started with Powers brothers and I remember I was, t,was of a Wednesday and I was dreaming of a football match we were playing in the semi-final of the County or whatever it was in Douglas that night and I was sent down to cut a hole for the overflow for a sink and we had left an open joint but the plasterer put a stone into it and plastered over it and it struck the exact spot and flattened my finger up against the wall the chisel went through. T,was a four pound hammer I was using and flattened the finger. I had no money so Powers he came out with a bag of salt a dish of water and a sheet he threw it on me bandaged my hand anyway and he gave me a shilling for the bus so I went down and I came back then again of course and I had to wait then till Dan was going home. I was three weeks out and the and the first week back when I got me wages he stopped a shilling. That’s Gospel truth.

MM He was a hard man so was he?

JJ Oh they were they were.

Time Summary

    0.00.00 - 0.03.07

  Family background in the mason trade and his beginnings as a mason.

Jack starts by speaking about his family’s background in masonry and how this led to him taking up the trade. He states that his Father, Grandfather and Great Grandfather before him were masons and that at that time you had to be the son of a mason before you could be taken into the union. He states that he started as a mason on the 20th of August 1945.

He states that he lived in Monkstown close to the river and describes how himself and his Father, in order to get to work he used to row a boat across the river to Rushbrook and get the Cobh to Cork train and then walk from the station to Hartlands Avenue by the Lough. He says it would be gone past seven in the evening by the time he got home on account of there being no busses, this being at the end of the war. He says his working week was five and a half days for tuppence an hour which was seven and ten pence a week. Jack says he might have had half a crown for spending money which he states at the time was considered “a fair share” 

  

  0.03.09 - 0.04.08

  Dances and social events at The Arc club.

Jack describes The Arc (Arcadia) club by the railway station in Cork and how it cost a shilling at the time of him starting as a mason. He says he used to cycle there which would take him just over half an hour. He speaks of his enjoyment of the dances and how there used to be a lot of English bands playing there and how they used to mainly play jazz, tangos, slow waltzes and old-time waltzes.

  

  0.04.12 - 0.05.15

  Growing up in Monkstown and schooldays.

Jack says he went to school in Monkstown till he was about 15 and then he went to The Passage Tech where he learned metalwork, woodwork, drawing etc. He states how he used to love working with his hands and how he always got 100 marks for the three aforementioned subjects.

  

  0.05.21 - 0.06.38

  Working at threshing.

Jack describes how before he started as a mason when he was roughly 16 he used to work two and a half days at threshing which involved taking 200 weight bags of wheat from the thresher to the store. He describes this as the hardest work he ever did. He says he got this job through farmers who were family friends, The Callaghans of Millstown.

  

  0.06.45 - 0.09.00

  Starting as a mason. Working for Powers and injuring his finger.

Jack states how when he started he worked for Powers Brothers. He remembers a Wednesday when he was dreaming of a football match that was due to be played for The County Final in Douglas that night when he was sent to cut a hole for the overflow in a sink unaware that a plasterer had put a stone into the open joint and plastered over it resulting in Jack injuring his finger with a four-pound hammer when his chisel struck the stone. He explains how Powers his employer came out and applied a makeshift bandage to his finger using a sheet and because Jack had no money he gave him a shilling for the bus. This injury resulted in him being out of work for three weeks and in his first week back he states that when he received his wages he had been docked a shilling. He says how at that time there was no wet time and if it was raining it meant you did not get paid.

  

  0.09.03 - 0.10.16

  Working for Pat Shea “The Gangster”. Co-worker John Falvey joining the British Army and being killed in Cyprus.

Jack goes into detail about working for Pat Shea who was nicknamed “The Gangster”. He was working on a garage belonging to Pat Shea’s brother which was located by the old exchange. There was another mason by the name of John Falvey working with him there and when they took an hour off because of rain they were docked tuppence each. Because of this, John Falvey joined The British Army and he was killed one morning coming off sentry duty in Cyprus. This affected Jack and he used to state “He lost his life over tuppence”.

Note: This was most likely to have been during the “Cyprus Emergency” of the ’50s. 

  

  0.10.26 - 0.13.32

  Jack fired for standing up to foreman.

Jack tells how he was working for “P.J.” at night helping in the building of a factory. He explains that he was the shop steward for the masons. He explains that they were having their break sometime in the middle of the night when the foreman Jimmy Donovan “came running around” and shouted at them to return to work. Jack pointed out that the break time was not up yet and admonished him for running around and giving out. Jack says that at first Jimmy Donovan denied it but in the end admitted it. Jack states that the following night he went down again and the following morning Jimmy Donovan told him he wouldn’t be going back to work that night and that the following day he would be starting a job in Togher. He says he was there three or four days before he “got the push”. He says he was sacked for standing up to the foreman because at this time “you couldn’t look crooked at them”. Jack thinks this happened in the early 50s. He also says that the masons who were there did not stand up for him because it was every man for himself and “God for us all”

  

  0.13.30 - 0.16.10

  Working in Dwyer’s factory. Masons “Bronco” Welsh and Joe Dynahan.” Bronco’s brother The Whistler” and his part in 1916.

Jack goes on to talk about working in Dwyer’s factory which was located on The Commons Road. He thinks the bricks he was working on here came from Holland and they were a foot long and about two and a half inches high. He goes on to talk about some of the other masons such as Jamie “Bronco“ Welsh and Jim Dynahan. Bronco was a brother in law to Murdered Lord Mayor McCurtain. Jack goes on to describe how Bronco, who was at least 70 years of age at the time and Joe were having an argument. He details how Bronco jumped down off the scaffold, took off his boots and called Joe Dynahan down to fight it out. In the end, they did not fight. Jack does not recall how Bronco got his nickname. He does recall that Bronco had a brother who was known as “The Whistler“ and who “fought in the post office in 1916“ in Dublin during the Easter Rising and is buried in the republican plot in St Finbars Cemetery. Jack does not know what Whistlers real name was and does not know any further details on his role in 1916. He says that Bronco never spoke of it. Jack does say that they were related to him

  

  0.16.15 - 0.20.48

  On Bronco making and selling toolsMasons pawning toolsHaving a set of chisels stolen

Jack goes on to say that Bronco used to make spirit levels which were about three feet long which he used to sell to other builders. He used to also make what was known as a “skutch“ which was a brick hammer with teeth. The teeth could be bought and slipped onto the hammer which was for dressing brick. Bronco used to make them out of the springs of a car. Jack says he never saw him making the tools and does not know if he had a shed or where he made them. The levels he made from timber and would buy the bubbles and put them in putty. Jack describes them as makeshift and that they might not last long but they’d “do a job for you“. Jack says this would have been the early 50’s.

Jack goes on to describe how some masons he knew would pawn their tools on a Friday night and get them back again on a Monday morning which he says they did for money. He says that some of them would leave them there and Jack says he bought a “beautiful set of chisels“ plus other tools including a mallet which had been left in a pawnshop. He says he had them in his toolbox and somebody stole the set of chisels. He believes it was another mason who stole them.

Note: Interview is interrupted by noise from the dryer leading to the door being closed.

  

  0.20.50 - 0.23.18

  Working for Crowley.

Jack goes on to talk about his time working for a builder called Crowley who was based on Copley St. He describes when he was building a fireplace at the Boat Club in Blackrock. He says the bricks were six inches long by three inches by two inches and the bricks for the arch were all bullnosed. Jacks says he set up a banker for dressing the brick and that the bricks had to be slightly cut to follow the contour of the arch and Crowley came up to him and said that there was no need for that and to just put them in as they are. Jack replied to Crowley that he wanted that he would have to get someone else to do it and that he would not do a job like that and have thousands of people coming in and asking what “kabog“ [fool] did that. Crowley told him to carry on and walked away waving his hands and shaking his head. Jack goes on to recount that a few mornings later he almost had it finished and was brushing it down when Crowley came in with the engineer who asked to inspect the work and after doing so turned to Jack and told him it was a job he could feel proud of.Jack looked at Crowley and he could see him smiling but he didn’t say a word. He goes on to say that Crowley could be gruff at times and at other times he could have a heart of gold.

  

  023.20 - 0.26.55

  Injuring his foot on a jobOn being told there was a big job coming up by Crowley. 

Jack describes a time when he was doing a job on a bank in Buttevant working for Crowley. It was a rainy day and he was knocking up a big gauge of concrete. The foreman Joe Ryan asked him to pack the concrete which he says was his job at the time. He went up to the top and the bucket of concrete was hauled up with a pulley. As he took hold of the bucket he stepped on a four-inch nail on an inch latte and it went through his foot. He pulled his leg off and blacked out, he was falling over the edge when the foreman caught him. He was seen to that night by the doctor who was staying in a nearby pub. The following morning Crowley came down, drove him home and came out every morning to drive him into the hospital for three days. Jack says this is something that wouldn’t happen now. He says that the doctor gave him an injection which took away the pain but when that wore off it was “torture“ when he was in bed with the clothes down on it.

Jack goes on to recount when he was on a job on The Lower Road hanging a pair of sliding doors on a garage. He was there a couple of days and had it finished when Crowley asked him to stay there as he had nothing on at the moment but there was a big job coming up. Jack says he was there nearly six weeks without doing a stroke of work and in the finish, someone was sent to tell him he had to go as Crowley hadn’t gotten the job. Jack agrees that Crowley had a lot of time for him. He believes he worked for him for about a year.

Note: At this point interview is interrupted after Jacks dog enters the room. 

  

  0.27.40 - 0.34.33

  Crowley giving out about the quantity of work. On taking pride in his work and the low standards of today’s builders. On the importance of sewer work. Recalling sewer work jobs. Working on his own sewer. Jacks pride in his reputation as a mason.

Jack describes how on a Monday morning how he was working on Pope Brothers garage Showroom on The Quay where there was a “big concrete head“ over the windows and he was building a block wall on top of it. He says Crowley came up and “was giving out stink“. Jack asked if there was something wrong with his work to which Crowley replied that “Oh no! “. “The quality is excellent but the quantity isn’t enough“. Jack replied that if he wanted quantity why didn’t he hire the mason whom he had working on the wall around the dog track who left so much mortar on the ground that it was necessary to have a man with a wheelbarrow to go around picking it after him. He compared this with his own work and said that there was not a trowel of mortar to be found on the ground where he was currently working. Crowley went off after that and a short while later the foreman told Jack to not take any notice of him and because he was the first person he met that morning and he just had to let off steam.

Jack insists that he always took pride in his work. He says that nowadays builders have “cash registers for eyes“ and all they want is money. He says their attitude is to “throw it up and walk away“. He remembers going on a job where the houses were built and the sewers, manholes and garden walls were not done. He says he believes the sewer work was always the most important part of the house. He recalls a sewer job he did on a college in Rochestown where there were twelve urinals and twelve toilets going into the one manhole. He was doing another sewer job on Lovers Walk where the ground was very steep. He goes on to describe the sewer as being cascaded and there was a footfall in twenty feet with four-inch pipes. He says the manholes were fourteen feet deep. He says at the back of the manhole was a T-pipe, one part was going into the manhole and the other down behind it into the sewer. He says at that time the corporation would smoke test the sewers. He says the tests were carried out by a plumber named John Starkey who found three leaks which were in the T-pipes which were highly glazed. Jack mentions that he also did his own sewer at this time and sent out for it to be checked. The tester asked Jack if it was his job to which Jack replied that it was. The tester did not bother to test it as he did not deem it necessary. Jack describes this as an example of the esteem his work was held and says this made him very proud.

  

  0.34.40 - 0.36.30

  Building his own fireplace.

Jack speaks of his fireplace which he built himself. It is described as having an arched brick. He says he was working in Irish Steel and he says they used firebricks in the ladles. The ladle he describes as being like a big cup and it would take about twelve hundred brick and could hold ninety ton of steel. He got the firebricks here. He cut them with a saw to fit in the arch. He says the three windows in his porch are bullseyes. He says while he was working on this one Sunday two masons came down and asked him how he did it. He told them to go back to school and learn how to do it.

  

  0.36.35 - 0.37.58

  On working with different materials.

Jack says he worked with some stone, not too much. He says he did a fair bit of monumental stonework which involved broken pieces that came out of a stone yard. He says he worked on a wall in Lovers Walk and would a few bits of stonework now and then. He says out of brick, block and stone he liked working with brick the most. Jack goes on to say he liked stone but to his mind the people weren’t satisfied because it (the work) was too slow.

  

  0.38.24 - 0.46.10

  More on growing up in Monkstown. On ambitions of being a shipwright. Building an altar for Monkstown School. More on using the ferry to get to work. More on his father. Local priest Father Butts. Jacks red setter dog.

Jack mentions that when he was growing up his main ambition was to become a shipwright like his Uncle. He says they were closer than any Father And Son. He says he did not get the job but someone else got it in the dockyard at Rushbrooke. He goes on to describe the job of shipwright as being a ships carpenter. Jack says he used to love working with timber. Returning to his time at Passage Tech he says he made an altar for The Monkstown School as a teacher wanted it for demonstration purposes for the religious half hour. He thinks that it still there in the school. He says he loved working with his hands.

Jack returns to the subject of rowing to work in the ferry where they would row across every morning. Returning at night he would stand and shout and the ferryman would come over. Jack says he lived by the water until he was about 25.

He goes on to describe a time when his father was doing a job on the house on The Strand Road in Monkstown where there lived a sister of General Michael Collins. A big ladder was needed and there were only two ladders in Monkstown that would do the job. One was Whites and their ladder was like “goalposts cut in two“ and the rounded at the sides. The other ladder was owned by the local priest Father Butts who had a two-piece ladder. Jacks father decided that this was lighter than Whites so that they would try him. Jack adds that he was not working at this time, he went along with his father to ask the priest. According to Jack what his father got was “a sermon“ on what would happen if he broke the ladder, who would pay for it, what would happen if he fell off and so forth. By the end, Jack says he could see his father get a bit edgy and adds that he was the kind of man who spoke his mind and it didn’t matter who he insulted or who he hurt “he said it out straight and that was it and that was it“. Jack’s father asked the priest “Father could you tell me what your sermon was last Sunday morning? “ Father Butts replied that at that moment he couldn’t. “Well, I’ll tell you. It was on charity and you have eff all of it“ was Jacks father’s reply. Jack says if the ground had swallowed him up he would have been happy and laughing, adds that they didn’t get the ladder. On being asked was it a big deal to stand up to a priest in those days Jack says it was “terrible“ and jokingly adds that in those days a priest could “turn you into a dog“.

Jack goes on to recount another time he was at home and at this time they had a red setter dog and “there wasn’t a dog in Ireland would come near the place“ and “I never saw two cats like em“ [Jack may have been talking about two dogs they had]. He says there were two doors in the front of the house. The front door which was always open and a side door leading onto a small hallway. He describes this door opening, hearing a patter of feet followed by a howl. Father Butts then walked in and said: “I suppose I should have left the dog [his own] outside“. “You should Father” replied Jack “and you should have knocked before you came in, “ He said he thought his mother would drop dead. Jack goes on to say that Father Butts didn’t have much time for the working people and that if you had money “you were sound“.

  

  0.46.18 - 0.47.30

  Jack’s mother. Relations in West cork. Going to England. 

Jack talks a little about his mother who was from Dromore, Aughaveale just outside Bantry. He says they had relations, Driscoll’s who had a pub in Aughaveale.

Jack moves on to say he went to England in 1956 at the age of 27. The reason he knows that is that his brother Ted was working there for a Canadian firm called Tiersons. [?]

Note: At this point the interview is interrupted as Michael Moore is rung by Jim Fahey.

  

  

00.39-03.40

  Part two of the interview: Starts after a 10 to 15-minute break.

The beginnings of Jacks interest in fishing. Jacks membership of fishing clubs and representing Ireland in Germany.

Jack speaks about fishing with his father from the age of eight from Monkstown Pier. He describes a shortcut to the pier through the wood which was owned by the manager of “The docks in Scotland”. He goes on to say how he joined three or four fishing clubs and he used to participate in The Cobh International every year which would be held on the first week of September and would draw people from as far as France Belgium Wales and England. He participated in this completion for a good many years. He joined a fishing club called Celtic in Cork City. In 1979 he won the Master Angler in the club. In 1980 He fished for The Master Anglers Of Ireland and came third. This got him onto the Irish Team and in 1981 went to Germany with the team. He says they came third in the European Championships being beaten by a point into second by Yugoslavia.

  

  03.46-10.50

  Fishing on the pier. Night fishing and methods of attracting fish. The time Jack caught a record fish.

Jack talks about two men from Cork Dan Busby who was a barber and Ernie Corem who used to be down every week fishing on Monkstown pier. He describes how on the pier there were nails every four or five feet on the outside planker of the pier and the two men would have a jampot with a candle inside and twine around it. This they would lower down till it was just above the water and they would leave it hang from the nail. This Jack says would attract the fish. He says he may have done night fishing up to 11 or 12 O Clock.

Jack talks about a record 180-pound fish which he jokingly says “nearly killed him”. It took him three-quarters of an hour in 200 foot of water to land the fish. The fish was a common skate which he says attach themselves to the bottom. He goes on to describe his effort to land the huge fish. He says he had it up half ways but the fish took off for the bottom again. He says the fish surfaced thirty yards from the boat and he describes it looking like “a big sail”. After finally landing the fish it was photographed and then released as it was a protected species. He caught this fish off Cahersiveen Co Kerry. He says there were two English visitors on the boat with him one of whom said it was the best days fishing he ever had even though he caught nothing. The following night at the prize giving this man there was with his wife and when Jack came in he bought him a double brandy.

  

  11.03-17.20

  On how he became so good at fishing and his methods. On the lack of overall fishing among Monkstown residents. Being caught in a storm off Ballycotton. Working the drift on a trawler. A near miss with another boat. Giving up boating when his eyesight became bad. 

On being asked how he became so good at fishing Jack supposes it was through dedication. He goes on to add to say it’s all in the “feel of the hand’s and describes how different fish bite. Some such as the Conger Eel will pull hard but others will suck at the bait and describes how he plays the line to entice them into biting. He says he got his fishing interest from his father and adds that Monkstown was not a fishing community as such. He says that other than himself and his father plus a few others who used to come down from Cork no one else in Monkstown used to do any fishing at that time when he was young before the clubs came along.

He says drink and water do not mix because “a person that’s not afraid of the water is stupid”. He goes on to recall a time when he was fishing in either The Harbour Championships or The Munster Closed Boat and was off Ballycotton. He says they were anchored about a mile or so off the shore when at three O Clock he noticed the sky changing. He says he told the skipper that the weather was going to get worse and they should start finishing up to which the skipper only laughed at him. Jack says the skipper was not laughing when they got in. It took them nearly two hours to get in and the boat was “pitched from post to pillar”. He says it was a lesson learned for the skipper who had just recently bought the boat.

Another near miss Jack speaks about is when he was on a large trawler off either the Waterford or Wexford Coast working “The Drift” where the trawler would follow the drift. He goes on to describe a frightening incident when they had just finished working the drift in roughish weather Jack saw a boat in front of him which was owned by Johnny Geary from Cobh. He says that they were almost on top of the boat and the skipper of Jack's boat could not see them as the prow was so high. Jack says he saw a crewmember of the other boat taking off his rubber boots and preparing to jump. He says they were not two feet away when they just passed him. Jack said, “the closest thing I ever saw”.

Jack goes on to add that once he started developing problems with his eyesight he would get sick every time he went out as he was unable to focus so he had to give up going out on the boats.

  

  17.34-19.35

  More on building work and Pat Shea “The Gangster”. On being left short in his wages

Jack returns to the subject of building and working for Pat Shea “The Gangster”. He speaks of working on Pat Shea’s niece's house when come Friday he discovered he had been left ten shillings short in his wages. He says this was a lot of money at the time. He spoke to the foreman about it who told him he should speak to the boss. He went to Pat Shea’s office which was located at the Top of the (South) Mall. He spoke to Pat Shea who said he should speak to the foreman, Jack, in turn, said that the foreman said he should speak to him. In the end, Jack said he began “giving out” to him to which Pat Shea stated “when I was a boy if I spoke to a man like that I’d be thrown into the river” to which Jack retorted “do you think you’d qualify for that job now?”. At this point, Pat Shea relented and gave Jack Ten pounds. Jack thinks this was at the end of the Forties or start of The Fifties.

  

  19.45-20.19

  Jack on the changes he’s seen. His dislike of the new look Patrick Street. 

On being asked about what changes he has seen in Ireland down the years he expresses his dislike of the changes to Patrick Street. He says the new street lights are horrible and they remind him of the jib of a crane.

  

  20.22-23.15

  Moving to England to find work.

Jack talks about moving to England to find work in 1956. His brother Ted was already working there and he wrote to ask if there was any chance of getting work there as there was nothing back home. He says he arrived at Paddington Station on a Saturday noon and he was working at one O clock. Ted was working on a house belonging to the mother of the actor “Michael Keane” which was a big three-storey house on Colchester Terrace. He says the tilers who were assigned the job refused to work weekends and the kitchen and bathroom were yet to be done. Ted asked Jack could he do the tiling and he agreed. He worked on the bathroom and kitchen over the Saturday and Sunday. He was still working on it Monday morning when it wasn’t quite finished. The tiler foreman came in with the general foreman and asked him if he wanted to work with them and stay on as a tiler. Jack said that he was not intending to stay on and he had a wife and family at home. The general foreman told him that he could get him a house over there. Jack says it was tough being in England with his family at home. He says he kept in contact with them via letters.

  

  23.08-25.00

  On the infamous criminals Reginald Christie and The Kray Twins. 

Jack says that where he was working was very close to where the infamous serial killer Reginald Christie lived. Jack talks about how he was caught, how after he left his house a “coloured family” moved in and after taking paper down from a wall there was discovered a cupboard which contained three bodies. Jack says they were “girls of the street” and further bodies were found buried in the back garden. He says that one of them was an Australian (though looking up the case it appears she was Austrian) and was identified through her dental records. Jack also briefly mentions that he saw gangsters The Kray twins though does not add any specific detail about them. It is unclear if he means he saw them in person or if he is referring to second-hand accounts.

  

  25.09-31.20 

  On his wages in England. More on the work he did. The differences between working on sites in England and Ireland. His father working for Kennedy -Callaghan and clashing over breaks. His father being removed as foreman.

Jack says his wages in England were nine pounds a week which he had to divide between himself and sending home to his family. On being asked did he enjoy England he says he did and he didn’t and that he enjoyed the work. The work he did was brickwork. He talks about an extension to a house he was working on where they were using a Flemish bond. On being asked was there a difference between working on sites in England and Ireland he says the main one he remembers was that in England there would be a man-call around at ten O clock with a big tea urn and some biscuits and you would get tea or a pint of milk and biscuits and the same would happen at three. Jack says that this would never happen over here (Ireland) and they had more breaks in England.

The subject of tea breaks leads Jack on to tell a story of his father when he was working for Kennedy-Callaghan. He says his father could not take hot tea and at this time there was no ten O clock break allowed. Jack says it was done “on the qt” and was not made law till 1952 when the wording stated any ten minutes between ten and half past. Jack says his father was the foreman and the two of them were working “up in the shaft” and he describes the gallon container that the tea was made in which he says was like a tin mug about six inches high. Jacks father had it on the scaffold next to him and would take a sup of tea from time to time and he was just taking a sup when Kennedy -Callaghan crossed underneath. Kennedy -Callaghan said was ten minutes not enough. Jacks father replied that he could not drink hot tea and he would have it next to him to take a sup from now and again. Kennedy-Callaghan “gave out” to Jacks father and an argument followed which resulted in Jacks father throwing the container of tea down at him followed by a half block. The boss went away and after about half an hour the word came that Jacks Father was wanted in the office. He packed his tools and went to the office where told Kennedy-Callaghan told him to forget all about it and “it never happened”. His father was a good mason Jack says. Jack agrees to the suggestion that there was always tension between workers and bosses. Jack goes on to recount how a deputation came out from the union and Jacks father was asked to step down as foreman as the position was for a city mason and he was living three miles outside it.

  

  31.28-40.33

  On working with his father. When he started working at the beginning. Talking about his brothers and sisters. 

Jack says he served three years working under his father which he describes as the hardest three years of his life. He says that no matter he did it was always wrong even if it was perfect it was always wrong but Jack adds that it paid dividends in the end. On being asked was it tough working with family he says the work was hard but his father was fair. He always made sure Jack did his work correctly no matter what it was.

Jack says when he started working first it rained nearly every day for the first month, the end of August and start of September. He started on the footing of a pair of houses which is working on the floor down to the foundation.

Jack goes on to speak about his siblings. He speaks of his Brother Ted who is now bedridden. He mentions another brother Michael who lives in Australia and was a “pencil pusher” with what Jack says was the biggest steel company in the world. Jack cannot recall the name of this company. He says Michael at first went to Baldoyle College and then another which he says he can’t remember [Note: This is likely to be O Connells College going on his follow up comments] and then training to be a Christian Brother. Jacks mother had a cousin who was a Christian Brother. He was the head man in O Connells School in Dublin and he advised her to take Michael out as he was studying too hard and it might affect him. Jack says Michael came home and was so caught up that he wouldn’t even listen to the radio. After three months “sold his soul for a dance”. He went off to England and became a male nurse. After he was there for a bit he went off to Australia. He was there for five years and it cost him 10 pounds to get over there at that time which was part of a special scheme for people wanting to move to Australia from England. He did an exam for the post-office but his right eye failed him for the position of inspector. He went back to London and he was a manager of a ships chandlery, Waring & Gillow. He met his future wife, a nurse whom he had known while working at the hospital though according to Jack they had “never took any notice of each other”. They got married in England and there for a year or so before going off to Australia and had four children. One became a psychiatrist another a chemist and the other two according to Jack were “harem scarems”. Michael now is over ninety and he and his wife are in a nursing home for the last year. Jack says they are as happy as Larry and have their own apartment type room. Jack goes on to speak of his only sister Betty who is two years older than him and is now resident in Moneygourney Nursing Home in Douglas. She wanted to go there herself because according to Jack she thought she could do everything for herself and was at home on her own as one of her sons who were unmarried was in the house but he was working late nights in a “computer place out on Ballincollig” and she found she couldn’t cope so according to Jack she is now in the home “as happy as Larry”. However, two weeks before the interview she fell and burst her elbow resulting in her staying in the hospital for three days however after she got out she fell again and broke her elbow and burst open the wound. At the time of the interview, she was back in the home again.

  

  40.41-42.54

  Friends Jack made on the sites. Characters on the sites and their nicknames.

Jack speaks of friends he made on the sites such as Eddie Madden and his brother Paddy. He also speaks of Jerry Madden (unrelated to Eddie and Paddy) who had the nickname “Born Drunk” who Jack had on the dry for six weeks and then “broke out” ie went back on the drink. He then went off to England and Jack never heard from him again. There was another Madden, Dick Madden in Douglas who was known as “Salty Bits” and was a small man whom Jack describes as “a cranky little divil”. His son worked in The Corporation afterwards and Jack says he was a tall man.

  

  

43.00-43.43

  On being christened John and how he came to be called Jack.

Jack says that the name he was christened under was John. He goes on to say that he was in his mother’s arms as a baby on the train from Glenbrook to Cork and a priest got on. He was asking his name and at the time there was a famous boxer called Jack Johnson and the priest called him Jack which then stuck.

  

  43.55-47.25

  Jack tells a story about his grandfather. On the mason's language The Barlog.

Jack relates a story his father told him about his father, Jack’s grandfather. He was working in Mallow to where he and the masons he was working with had to walk from Cork. They were staying in the house of a widow. At this time Jack says the masons could speak the mason language “Barlog” which Jack says was first spoken in The Tower Of Babel. The masons were having tripe and drisheen for their dinner and Jacks grandfather said of his meal to the mason next to him in Barlog that you could sole a pair of shoes with that it was so tough. Instantly the woman of the house “blew the ears off him” in Barlog. It transpired that unknown to Jacks Grandfather and the others she was the wife of an old stonemason who knew The Barlog and she had learned it from them.

Jack goes on to speak some phrases in Barlog himself. He says his father could speak a bit of it. It has died out according to Jack. He says a Mason who was known as Block Long was reckoned to have a book on it. He thinks that there were two books on it, one in the possession of Block Long and the other belonged to the College. He says he does not know Block Longs real first name.

  

  47.35-50.05

  On mason family tradition. “Sharkey Madden”.

Jack says you had to be a mason’s son before you could become a mason when he started, and you had to do seven years.

Returning to the subject of characters he worked with Jack speaks of “Sharkey” Madden also known as “The Shark” and recalls a time he was working with him on the catholic church in Carrigaline. They were building the tower and the foreman Billy Madden who was a first cousin of The Shark came at lunchtime and told The Shark that he was being let go and would be finishing up that night. The Shark said nothing and returned to work and laid about two dozen bricks inside out and built “as hard as he could go” up on top of them again. Jack says The Shark got his own back that way. His work had to be undone and taken out as the bricks were rustic brick which had grooves so the rain would run off them, he had placed them in such a way that the smooth side was facing out.

  

  

50.30-52.58

  Working in Irish Steel.

Jack speaks of his time working in Irish Steel. He worked there for about fifteen years and says he loved working there. He used to build and repair the furnaces and says the ladles would last maybe a week or less as they would burn out. They would then be stripped down and rebuilt. The inside of the ladle was molten steel about ninety ton. Jack says the firebrick is so tough because of the silica in the material.

Note:[51.53-52.15] at this point Jacks son John enters the room and there is a short discussion 

Returning to the subject of Irish Steel Jack says he was there as an apprentice around 1946 or 47. He names a few masons who were there such as Billy Hogan and his brother Tommy plus Jimmy McCarthy who were all from Cobh

Note: At this point, John Johnson re-enters the room and there is a break in the interview.

  

  0.14-2.13

  Part three of the interview.

Working with Billy Hogan on the roof of the open-top furnace. The effect of the bricks on his hands from the lack of gloves.

Jack recounts when he was an apprentice and was building the roof of an open cast furnace with Billy Horgan. He says there was five thousand eight hundred and eighteen brick in the roof. He goes into detail about the hard work and says that every night when he went home his mother would have to open the buttons of his shirt as his thumbs and fingers were red-raw and the brick “would tear the fingers off you” because as Jack says “there was no gloves that time”. The weather was cold he says even though they were inside a big shed. He describes the buckets of clay kept in an old barrel over a fire to keep the frost from it. He says they used to go by boat from Monkstown pier to the island, the Hogans would go from Cobh by boat. He says now there is a bridge from Ringaskiddy to the island.

Note: At this point, the reversing signal for a bin lorry is heard outside causing Jack to inquire as to what it is. He then realises what it is and the interview continues. 

  

  2.20-8.23

  Jack speaking about seeing two men killed at Haulbowline and accidents there.

Jack confirms that the island was Haulbowline. He then says he saw two men killed there. He describes the first incident thus. The man worked in the foundry Jack describes the moulds which were two-foot square and about six foot high tapering up. He says the mould was being lifted by a crane but there was just one lug holding it, normally there were two but the other one was broken. The one lug in use broke and the mould came down on the shoulder of the man and as Jack says it went “right through him”. Jack says that this man had just handed in his notice as the shift work was interfering with his ballroom dancing. He describes another fatality which happened in the rolling mills. The sheets of steel would be stacked when they cooled then brought to soaking pits. They would be heated up and put through rollers where they would get smaller and longer. At the last one, a man with tongs would catch the length of steel and turn it around. At this point a bit of a fork on the steel bar struck a steel plate and the red hot bar flew up in the air and down on top of the man and went “right through him like a knife through butter” Jack says the priest was called from The Navy dept and he was in Jacks words “as sick as a dog” when he saw the scene. Jack says his remains were collected in a cardboard box and the rest was water which was hosed down. Jack says this man was about 25 or 26. Jack goes on to describe another fatality, a man from Ringaskiddy. There was a big bath of acid for the making of corrugated iron and this man fell into it. He was brought to the hospital but Jack says there were only bones left and he was burnt to a cinder.

Jack says they all went home after these fatalities but he does not know if anyone quit work over it. Despite it all, he says he enjoyed working there.

  

  8.27-11.13

  Working in the gasworks. The retorts for making coke.

Jack talks about working in the gasworks building and repairing the retorts where the coke was made. There were six in a bed as it was called. The retorts were twenty-foot long and sixteen inches wide. There was a door at each end. One door would be closed and a machine would blow the coal in the other. Jack says he was working with a man called Gerald Keefe. A repair was going on and another mason whose name Jack can’t recall but Jack thinks was one of the Falveys came in. Jack says you had to crawl inside the retort and the inside was lined with coarse bags stitched together for protection as it was still hot. Jack says the furnace man would insert a lighted match inside for the gas so it wouldn’t explode but some didn’t bother. This man Falvey did this and the gas exploded. He got such a fright he went off without his tools and was never seen there again 

  

  11.19-12.34

  On developing problems with his sight. End of interview.

Jack says that six or so years ago he developed problems with his eyesight and as a result became claustrophobic. He says he went into the hospital and had to go in a lift to the third or fourth floor. He says he got to the lift door and couldn’t go any further. He says it had never happened before. The interview concludes at this point. Michael thanks Jack for his participation.

End of interview.

  

 

Citation

Cork Folklore Project , “Jack Johnson: Masonry, Fishing, Working Life,” accessed March 28, 2024, https://corkfolklore.org/archivecatalolgue/document/185.