Tommy Lysaght: Masonry, Horticulture,

CFP00589 Tommy Lysaght in Farrenferris 2 crop.jpg

Title

Tommy Lysaght: Masonry, Horticulture,

Subject

Stonemasons: Occupational Lore:

Description

The interview begins with how Tommy got into stonemasonry. Tommy then goes on to talk about the Blackwater Valley, restoring boundary walls, Training in Dingle in stonework.
He mentions the ‘lads’ in Dingle, The west of Ireland have a special relationship with stone, Irish building with stone for thousands of years, the resurgence of stone, building proper stonework and not just cladding.
Tommy learnt as he went along reading books about stonework, lime-mortars. His first job, repairing an old wall by the road, a road accident that brought a lot of work.
Pure stonework- replicating old work, famine walls, working in Castletownroche- massive caps on the wall, Annesley Gardens- the story of how Lt-Gen Arthur Annesley got men to make a bend in the river Awbeg- these gardens were decimated by a storm a few years ago, lovely limestone down there.

Tommy talks about Stone carving festivals, bringing granite back from Britanny, working as a teacher, designing gardens, meditation garden for people with brain injuries, Quimper in Britanny- finding a quarry there to get stone for carving, people with brain injuries learning to carve- using a Dremel drill- seeing the progression of these people is fantastic.
The Cosgrave's of Blackpool- stone cutters, horticulturalists, getting people to grow food and making things, projects for stone carving, garden café in Blackpool- developing skills, people with disabilities, fundraising for the meditation garden, features of meditation gardens.
Cross agency work, the medium of creativity, cutting slabs, cutting of stone, preparation work for the garden.
Horticulture college in Dromcoller Limerick, connection with plants, herbs- comfrey- poultice, marry knowledge of stone gardens and wood, charity work with people with disabilities, getting funding for dream work.
Course in stone carving in Aran Islands, stone lettering, story of Amazing Grace- writer shipwrecked off Donegal, not liking the carving and then trying it again, staying on the Island for a week on my own learning to sculpt- a pagan style carving of Jesus.
Tommy finishes by talking about teaching carving to people with brain injuries, a carving of an owl- comes together piece by piece.

Date

12 October 2016

Identifier

CFP_SR00589_lysaght_2016

Coverage

Cork, Kerry, Galway, Ireland 1970s -2010s

Source

Cork Folklore Project Audio Archive

Rights

Cork Folklore Project

Language

English

Type

Sound

Format

1 .wav File

Interviewee

Interviewer

Duration

52Mins 34sec

Location

St. Finbarrs College, Farrenferris, Redemption Road, Cork

Original Format

.wav

Bit Rate/Frequency

24bit/48kHz

Transcription

The following is a short extract from the interview transcript, copyright of the Cork Folklore Project. If you wish to access further archival material for this interview or other interviews please contact CFP, folklorearchive@gmail.com

Time Summary

0.00.00 - 0.04.33

Start of Interview

How Tommy got into stonemasonry, Blackwater Valley, restoring boundary walls, Training in Dingle in stonework

he has a different hat, he is working in the garden in Farrenferris as an organic horticulturalists

he started working as a stonemason in the early (19)nineties

It was down in a field that was a part of the dingle races, it was a FAS scheme and he was down there for about 9 months restoring a drystone wall

he’s originally from North Cork along the Blackwater Valley

After a period of doing that work, he enjoyed it, and he moved back up by Fermoy.

he got asked to restore the old estate walls from back in the day, these big old houses down along the Blackwater Valley by Castlehyde where there would have been a lot of English influence- he started restoring boundary walls on his own, his kids were young a way to make a living really

he stuck at that for a good few years and became more and more interested in the stone

he drifted in and out of it over the years to general construction but he always went back to the stone

he wasn’t aware of it but he found out then that stonemasonry was in the family which is good to know

Tis in the blood there somewhere

he was 22 when he started

he enjoyed it from the start

It was an introduction into the people of Dingle

They used to have a portable hut on site which could be rolled on, it had a top like a gypsy wagon with a gas fire in it because the weather was so bad down there at the time

During the winter he spent quite a bit of time in there

Being cramped in this wagon with a load of lads from Kerry, he was the only blow-in. it was fantastic listening to their stories about Dingle back in the day

A few of them had been in the merchant navy so there were stories from all around the world but with a Kerry sense of humour he suppose

A few of them had businesses so this was a way of keeping the social welfare of their backs in the winter

he had a young family he just wanted to find something to sink his teeth into after so many years, he never thought it would lead to this- it's developed over the years

0.04.34 - 0.07.59

The lads in Dingle, The west of Ireland has a special relationship with stone, Irish building with stone for thousands of years, the resurgence of stone, building proper stonework and not just cladding

Thinking back about his first day- there were men of different backgrounds- he was by far the youngest

The foreman was a Dingle man from out by Ballyferriter, he was employed full time by the council

He took him under his wings for sure in showing him how to lay the stone

Where they worked was very visible as there were only two roads in and out of Dingle- the scenic route over the Connor Pass or you have the road that comes from Annascaul

Being like the west of Ireland, they have such a relationship with stone- everything is stones, the Arran Islands is the same

They look at stone way differently to different parts of the world

Even to clear a bit of land, which others may take for granted- they had to lift tens of tonnes of stones just to clear a bit of land just so they could grow a few crops and that

So he suppose they have a healthy respect for the power of it with the mountains and the cliffs of stone, with the headstones in the graveyard and all this, and the Ogham stones all from down there- there’s a great relationship with stones

From what he can see the skills that were around for hundreds if not thousands of years were ignored for a few generations when concrete became the new product of choice- because it was so quick to use and harden- so stone was basically thrown out the window

So around that time there seemed to be a little bit of a resurgence of stone especially around house fronts and entrance walls and stuff like that which he suppose isn’t a true stone wall but at least it was back visibly in some form even if it wasn’t it’s truest form

So when he went back up towards Ballyhooly and Mallow and Fermoy and the Blackwater Valley, they were back to building true, proper stonewalls, stone at both sides- then he learnt about the different makeup of stone, the hearthing of a stone, the face stones and the capping an all that

0.08.00 - 0.12.49

Tommy learnt as he went along reading books about stonework, lime-mortars, his first job, repairing an old wall by the road, a road accident that brought a lot of work

When he was down in Dingle there were some people he could learn from but when he went back up to North Cork, there was no one to help him in bettering his stonemasonry skills so he ended up making it up as he went along

Devouring books and learnt about using lime mortars as well

he started in about 1995

he was conscious that he did not have a 4-year apprenticeship done but there was nowhere to go to do that, thankfully these days there is.

The old main road between Rosslare and Killarney, the N71, it goes with the river so it’s really bendy- super busy- there’s a lot of high wallsI got a start of Monty Eagle? Of Brandon, he owned a house down there- on the day he started with nothing, he had to hire a wheelbarrow and borrow a mixer and off he went

There were gaps of maybe 25ft in the wall and he was slowly and painstakingly repairing them all the way along

It was hard work on his own- digging out trenches and moving stuff in wheelbarrows

There was a harsh winter at the time- a lot of cattle down- gov decided that they would move hay from the east to the west side of the country- the farmers had to pay for the hay but the government would pay for the transportation of it

One of bales from a truck hit a wall close by and knocked a massive amount- so he got 6 months more work

he was able to bring in lads to work

He questions his own ability- he says he was making it up as he went along

Thank god 20 years later, they're all still standing

0.12.50 - 0.17.52

Pure stonework- replicating old work, famine walls, working in Castletownroche- massive caps on the wall, Annesley Gardens- the story of how Lt-Gen Arthur Annesley got men to make a bend in the river Awbeg- these gardens were decimated by a storm a few years ago, lovely limestone down there

The boom came along then- he started doing general construction- he had a background in a bit of carpentry as well

By word of mouth, he would get a call and do some restoration as well

It was all restoration he did, he didn’t like doing stone on a house- it was a façade- he love the makeup of stone- the whole thing

What he love doing is trying to replicate a 150-year-old wall

It’s not about purism, it’s about respecting what was done before- and working with the same stones

Most of the walls were famine walls- it’s ironic Irish people were used to build walls to keep us out from the food- “You know the irony isn’t lost on him”

That would be his benchmark matching up their work from long ago

he worked up by Castletownroche as well and there was a very unique wall- the capping of the wall is usually a single stone to keep out the elements- the caps on this wall were massive

he liked working there as well, the Annesley Gardens it’s called, it's by the river Awbeg, a tributary of the Blackwater, it goes through Doneraile and Buttevant and it goes into the Blackwater by an abbey by Killavullen.

The ancestors may be of the people he worked for, they rerouted the river- Annesley [Lt-Gen Hon Arthur Grove Annesley] was in the army, he got thousands of men to come from Fermoy to make the river meander and then he built his gardens [Now called Annes Grove]

These gardens were decimated about 4/5 years ago in the bad storms, lots of the forestry around here was decimated

They closed it down- he think the OPW have bought them- so interesting to see what happens

Down there they have limestone- a lovely durable stone as well

0.17.53 - 0.24.04

The high caps in Castletownroche, lime-mortar, always work with local stone, quarry stone versus guillotined tonne bags, searching for good building stone, finding old quarries, Glanworth quarry

Just to clarify, the overall height of the walls by Castletownroche is 7ft, the height of the wall is 5ft and 3ft of cap- the limestone is very irregular and they wedged the stones in

Anne's grove is the name of the gardens actually, planted with beech trees nearby

They used lime mortar which is more natural and attracts mosses and ivy. More plant life than on concrete

he suppose limestone is the stone that he’m used to and he like working with it

Whatever is local if he can work with local stone

Pricing a job at the minute in Gyleen, East Cork just past Trobalgan, he think it translates as Little Harbour. There’s an old thatched cottage- he took a few samples of the stone for better or worse

As you know a lot of stone today comes in tonne bags and it's chopped and guillotined into very ordinary sizes- easy to work with but for him it makes the wall look bland

he needed to find stone to match this wall- a man told him there was a local quarry and he needed to find this quarry

Quarry’s today are only open for stone for roads really

he got out of the van with a stick and a hammer and he found a quarry of excellent building stone- he rang the owner and now he’m able to handpick that stone- so right now that’s his favourite stone because he can pick that stone- if he got a tonne bag he wouldn’t find any stone 3ft thick to use as through stones but now he can get them and they can choose, every stone will be the stone that they need

The stone in the quarry is 90% probable that it’s the same stone used in the wall- it’s the same region definitely

he love finding quarries like this

There is one in Glanworth up by his neck of the woods- there is marble its pink and white- so he’ll be using stone from there

0.24.05 - 0.30.04

Stone carving festivals, bringing granite back from Britanny, working as a teacher, designing gardens, meditation garden for people with brain injuries, Quimper in Britanny- finding a quarry there to get stone for carving, people with brain injuries learning to carve- using a Dremel drill- seeing the progression of these people is fantastic

he love going to stone carving festivals

he do a bit of stone carving- he drive a pickup so where ever he go he’ll bring the stone back from say Donegal- stone from Donegal is perfect for carving

he brought granite back from Brittany when on a holiday with his two daughters- 9ft lengths of granite for a current project

he have changed tact with work, he work now as a teacher

he work for different charities and different probation projects in around the city

he design gardens and implement the building of them with people with injuries or a background of addiction and everything in between

he got funding to build a meditation garden for people with acquired brain injuries- that’s his main work these days

he only do the stonework if he’m asked to

These stones from Britanny will be the centre piece for the meditation garden because there’s a history to these stones- it gets people engaged, it gives the stone a story instead of just saying you got them up the road

he went to a museum in Britanny in a town called Quimper

They’re very aware of their history with stone and stone carving

he saw a stone in the museum and got the name of a quarry where it came from

he headed for the hills looking for the quarry

he finally found it and there were three men making Celtic crosses

he took a tonne of stone back with him mainly for the meditation garden

This stone will be used for carving

Will has a brain injury and he started carving 6 months ago using a Dremel drill (electric drill) he said there was no way he would be able to carve

Some people only have the use of one side of their body but they find a way to work through it

they stuck with it and by the end of the week they had this beautiful carving

To see the progression with Will is fantastic- he was able to tip away with a 9ft stone and finish a carving all with the medium of stone

0.30.05 - 0.35.57

The Cosgrave's of Blackpool- stone cutters, horticulturalists, getting people to grow food and making things, projects for stone carving, garden café in Blackpool- developing skills, people with disabilities, fund raising for the meditation garden, features of meditation gardens

he work with people from Blackpool and their grandfathers are stone cutters and even today there is a little arch and if you look in you’ll see a stone cutters yard and their still making headstones for people three generations on the same family (Cosgrave's)

he’m here today as a grower a horticulturalists growing food for the CUH

If they take away two generations of any family in these communities, they were involved in growing something- everyone grew their food- loads of people had their trade, stone cutting, cobblers, harness makers which are gone from Blackpool- he feel lucky he can get involved in getting that going again

The next project he was been funded for was to teach 12 weeks of stone carving and stone wall building

he will be finding people who will do this with him

they have a café in Blackpool which is open to the public, they grow our own food there- hoping to build something there- something functional maybe stone seating

they will be developing skills there- stuff take they can take home themselves

Meditation is not something he do myself, it’s for the crowd he’m working for

A lot of the lads and lass’s out there are in wheelchairs are in rehabilitation for the brain injuries

he work out there 2 days a week

They did a 1km walk and raised 1,500 euro

That money is put back up into headquarters and only some of it is filtered through but a fantastic girl is working there who managed to get 1500 put back in for a meditation garden

There was only concrete out there when they started but they set up a sensory garden already- something that’s for all the senses- smell is easy with the flowers, the taste is easy with the herbs, plant bamboos then for the sounds

they’re starting this meditation garden now with the stones, a shrine, a water feature- a very important feature of a meditation garden, gravel paths

he’m like a teacher so he’ll start in September and it’ll go on until May

0.35.58 - 0.37.40

Cross agency work, the medium of creativity, cutting slabs, cutting of stone, preparation work for the garden

he work with probation services as well

he love cross agencies coming together with places with completely contrasting clients, that’s fantastic, everyone gets to know everyone in this medium of creativity

It’s a bit daunting as well, it’s a big project but there is a lot of people he can call on as well

they want to put in circular paths and take up concrete slabs

Cutting of slabs, cutting of stones- hopefully, they can get all the ground work done and hand it back over to the lads than

0.37.42 - 0.41.50

Horticulture college in Dromcoller Limerick, connection with plants, herbs- comfrey- poultice, marry knowledge of stone gardens and wood, charity work with people with disabilities, getting funding for dream work

Ten years ago he was living in Limerick and there’s an organic horticulture college in Dromcoller
he went there for a couple of years, he was doing school runs for the kids so it was convenient
he was never into the science of growing but he loved the connection they have with plants
he grow herbs such as comfrey which has medicinal value, used to be called knitbone- used in a poultice back in the day
you can feel a difference within 24 hours with it
he knew to go to college that he would never grow carrots
he knew for him going to college that working with the plants and having a knowledge of the stones and working with wood that he would be able to marry the three of them together and something would happen
so while working on placement he worked with the Brothers of Charity so he was working with people with intellectual disabilities, he didn’t take to it-
he am energised by working with people with addictions
getting funded to work on the garden is a dream come through for him
It’s a win, win situation- no pressure

0.41.51 - 0.50.47

Course in stone carving in Aran Islands, stone lettering, story of Amazing Grace- writer shipwrecked off Donegal, not liking the carving and then trying it again, staying on the Island for a week on his own learning to sculpt- a pagan style carving of Jesus

About 12 years ago he did a weekend course on sculpting but he didn’t enjoy it

Last year he cycled up to the Aran Islands with his son, he saw a sign for stone carving and stone lettering

he gave it another go

So, he went up there for a weekend- he tried stone lettering the stuff you’d see on headstones

The first day was in a room and they were writing out what they wanted to put into the stone

he had no idea what to write but he was listening to Amazing Grace the night before, a different version than the American one- this is a version to do with drug abuse and it’s by a band called Low

When he looked into it the fella who wrote Amazing Grace back in the 1700s who ironically was shipwrecked off Donegal- he was a scoundrel and a sailor and really fond of his drink- whenever he’d get into trouble he’d pray upstairs- get him out of this pickle

So he spent the day trying to put the words on the paper and he couldn’t do it, he hated it- he wasn’t happy with it

When doing stone on the Aran Island it’s a lovely dynamic, everyone stays on the island in the evening and chats

he really enjoyed meeting people

he was going to scrap his piece of paper and the teacher a lovely man called Tom Little, he said stick with him and you’ll get it on

he stayed at it for the day and by six o clock that evening he had it on the stone- and he couldn’t believe it- he was completely hooked

he was supposed to do the Camino with his daughter two weeks later but she got a job

he rang this man Paddy Crow, the manager of the island- he said can he come up for a week and do stone carving- he said no problem- he went up and borrowed chisels and he spent a whole week on his own with two stones and he loved it

It was around the equinox and he had the best time ever just dancing around these stones

he had worked with the stone but only for 5 minutes when you’re carving you spend a week with the same stone so you really get to know your stone

his first stone there was a Failte sign for his friends

So he pushed the boat out the last 2 and a half days and he sketched this type of Jesus on the Cross but it was a real pagan version- it was back when Christianity was still trying to push itself on top so it was real pagan but it was still Jesus- he sketched it and it was from a round stone- so he took for the beach to get a stone

he just wanted to try it he didn’t care if it was great or not

It was brilliant he loved it

That was just over a year ago, he buy a chisel every couple of months

0.50.48 - 0.52.34

Teaching carving to people with brain injuries, a carving of an owl- comes together piece by piece. End of interview

he started teaching it then straight away

When he had done the course 12 years ago he had been attempting an owl but he left it in his house for 12 years

he gave it to a guy with a brain injury- he spent the next 6 months working on it during the class- he had never done carving before- he spent a month on the talons, a month on the face- they’d get pictures of the owl off the internet and keep loads of pictures next to you while you worked- breaking the owl down into loads of little pieces- slowly but surely it will all come together

That’s the type of work they do with people with brain injuries

End of Interview

Citation

Cork Folklore Project , “Tommy Lysaght: Masonry, Horticulture,,” accessed March 29, 2024, https://corkfolklore.org/archivecatalolgue/document/186.